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Common Poster Subjects => Authentication => Topic started by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 19, 2013, 06:35:11 PM

Title: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 19, 2013, 06:35:11 PM
A couple of years ago I purchased a 27" x 40 7/8" rolled one sheet from a conventional general poster shop that sold many reprints and commercial posters. It's printed on conventional non-glossy paper. 

Other than being rolled, it appears to be identical to known folded/theater-used posters being sold. The printing quality is good and it's not a cheap digital reproduction.

My bet is that all or most of the rolled Animal House posters being sold are in fact these commercial posters.  Both Heritage and Emovie have sold them.  

What do y'all think?

My commercial poster:

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20%28commercial%29.jpg)

Close-up of my poster:

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20close-up.jpg)

Folded poster:

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20folded.jpeg)

Heritage rolled poster sold:
 (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=510094&lotNo=54019#59345934892)
(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20Rolled%20Heritage.jpeg)

Emovie rolled: (http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=2828652)

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20Emovie.jpeg)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 19, 2013, 06:55:28 PM
Nice puzzle Mel,
Everyone here knows I`m no expert(especially 1-sheets),but would I be right in guessing that an original example would not have
"One-sheet-Animal House"B" at the bottom?


Stew
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 19, 2013, 06:58:14 PM
Even the presumably original folded versions have the following in the lower right:  ONE SHEET "ANIMAL HOUSE" "B"

Here is Dave's printers proof:

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20%28PP%29.jpeg)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 19, 2013, 06:58:49 PM
Even the presumably original folded versions have the following in the lower right:  ONE SHEET "ANIMAL HOUSE" "B"

Damn,must try harder...

Stew
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 19, 2013, 07:23:11 PM
MoviePoster.com has this 27x41 reprint for sale - 41" reprints just not common....

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20reprint.jpg)

Someone raised the same Q on MOPO but never got an answer:

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20MOPO.jpg)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 19, 2013, 07:37:40 PM
Its hard to tell for me..none of the images provided match in contrast...some yellows appear more vibrant in the various pics,it would be easier if i could see all the posters photographed in the same lighting conditions.

Stew
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: jayn_j on January 19, 2013, 07:42:45 PM
FWIW, I have a folded 1 sheet in theater used condition.  Just pulled it out, and the markings are identical.

The copyright under the ratings box seems just slightly fuzzy on my copy.  Also the cartoon image seems more saturated and somewhat darker, about the same as Dave's printers proof.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 19, 2013, 07:58:31 PM
FWIW, I have a folded 1 sheet in theater used condition.  Just pulled it out, and the markings are identical.

The copyright under the ratings box seems just slightly fuzzy on my copy.  Also the cartoon image seems more saturated and somewhat darker, about the same as Dave's printers proof.

What's the exact size of yours?
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: jayn_j on January 19, 2013, 10:17:58 PM
What's the exact size of yours?

26 15/16 x 40 7/8, but...

Mine has been stored folded for some time.  I did my best to stretch it out, but there could be another 1/16 in there.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: ddilts399 on January 19, 2013, 10:40:16 PM
I have a rolled one as well and this title has been on the suspicious list for several years now, another I would buy folded on now. I have no info just too many rolled ones have come to market.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: CSM on January 19, 2013, 11:03:37 PM
Toga! Toga! Toga!
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 20, 2013, 04:45:48 AM
I pulled out my rare advance AH and it also measures 26 7/8 x 40 7/8 but it is printed on smooth typical movie poster paper and has significant acid tanning.   The commercial "STYLE B" is minty white and printed on acid-free, rougher, thicker paper.

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20compare.jpg)

(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20compare%202.jpg)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: paul waines on January 20, 2013, 05:09:04 AM
For once I'm inclined to agree with Mell.. ;)     Looking at the pics, I think the rolled one is a commercial poster.

There was a lot of them kicking about even in this country back in the late 70's early 80's, with the boom in Home
video. Lots of companies were producing repro film posters as demand was high. A common one over here was a
U.S. 1Sht 80's release of Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They measure as near as dam it, but the paper is not quite
the same; And I've lost count how many 1Sht Nightmare on Elm St repros I've seen....
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: jayn_j on January 20, 2013, 11:53:22 AM
I kinda hate to bring this up, but if the hobby decides that rolled copies are bogus, then someone holding a newly discredited commercial reprint simply needs to fold it to make it legitimate again.  WE need something better to distinguish them, or we need to let it go.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: marklawd on January 20, 2013, 12:08:18 PM
I have folded and rolled examples of this poster and they are identical in every respect.

Mark
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 20, 2013, 12:14:23 PM
As discussed in other threads, it's pretty clear that the studios have occasionally printed and sold certain posters (including Blade Runner, Thing, Back To The Future, Pulp Fiction etc.) in bulk specifically to movie poster dealers.  Those are printed on typical movie poster paper and are indistinguishable from studio originals, so - I guess - for all intents and purposes they are "originals."

This one is different. I suspect it was sold to general commercial poster stores (where I found mine for sale for $10).   Any experienced collector on this board would instantly suspect it's a commercial poster because the paper is so different and it is minty white.  Usually these kind of posters are 24x36 but this one just happens to be 41".

So IMHO it's an anomaly and not a "cause for alarm."


Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: paul waines on January 20, 2013, 12:19:21 PM
I think you would be surprised how many were a full 41x27, and were sold through commercial outlets.

Mark, is the paper quality the same, thickness, texture, etc?
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Harry Caul on January 20, 2013, 12:27:32 PM
As discussed in other threads, it's pretty clear that the studios have occasionally printed and sold certain posters (including Blade Runner, Thing, Back To The Future, Pulp Fiction etc.) in bulk specifically to movie poster dealers.  Those are printed on typical movie poster paper and are indistinguishable from studio originals, so - I guess - for all intents and purposes they are "originals."

That is a pretty bold statement Mel, and one that can't be verified as far as I know.  Todd at MPGrading did a fiber analysis on the full-sized reprints for Blade Runner (which has crushed shadow detail), Pulp Fiction (which has slightly different colors and paper) and Thing (not sure how to identify this one yet, or even which style was copied) and they all came from the same paper stock -- which means they were printed in the 90s after PFs release.  I highly doubt these were studio printings as there were different studios involved. 

If you are talking about pre-90s extra stock being printed and sold commercially with the studios blessing... I'd want to hear some realistic proof -- from someone other than tloce.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: brude on January 20, 2013, 12:32:26 PM
How frustrating...

(http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/cerberus714/animal-house-belushi.gif)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Through the Stones on January 20, 2013, 01:30:07 PM
Feeling a little surely but that is a nice uncut one sheet!   ;D
Title: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: marklawd on January 20, 2013, 01:40:13 PM
...Mark, is the paper quality the same, thickness, texture, etc?

Yes, identical.

Mark
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 20, 2013, 02:19:27 PM
That is a pretty bold statement Mel, and one that can't be verified as far as I know.  Todd at MPGrading did a fiber analysis on the full-sized reprints for Blade Runner (which has crushed shadow detail), Pulp Fiction (which has slightly different colors and paper) and Thing (not sure how to identify this one yet, or even which style was copied) and they all came from the same paper stock -- which means they were printed in the 90s after PFs release.  I highly doubt these were studio printings as there were different studios involved.  

If you are talking about pre-90s extra stock being printed and sold commercially with the studios blessing... I'd want to hear some realistic proof -- from someone other than tloce.

I'm primarily talking about the "endless" perfect rolled posters (BTTF, Blade, Dune, Fast Times, Thing, 1941, Pulp Fiction) that the MoviePosterZone brothers are selling (http://www.ebay.com/sch/movieposterzone/m.html?_ipg=48&_sop=3). A reputable dealer told me they have "lifetime" supplies of these posters and they obtained directly from the original printers (or studios).  Their Blade Runners, for example, clearly were printed from the original printing plates as the 30x40 since they have the same printing defects (the light "ORIGINAL").  Dan R. thinks the MPZ posters are generally legit.

Egbert also claims Miramax sold 10,000 copies of Pulp Fiction directly to dealers (http://shop.vendio.com/comicod/item/758057218/index.html), which were resold and split up among various dealers.  Obviously he has a poor reputation in the hobby but he did name his specific contacts at Miramax, plus there are endless quantities of these for sale from multiple dealers,  so I tend to credit it.

Locust ain't talking to me and I wouldn't believe him anyway since I have two of his low-quality digital reprints.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Harry Caul on January 20, 2013, 02:26:32 PM
Didn't Rich buy up the Miramax warehouse after they were bought out?  If that is what Egbert is talking about I would hardly call that a direct-to-dealer-sale. More like a fire sale...
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 20, 2013, 02:36:45 PM
Didn't Rich buy up the Miramax warehouse after they were bought out?  If that is what Egbert is talking about I would hardly call that a direct-to-dealer-sale. More like a fire sale...

You'll have to ask Rich yourself about that.  Publicly he's said he bought a warehouse associated with Miramax. (http://stylec.yuku.com/reply/2505/Help-please-in-authenticating-Star-Wars-posters#reply-2505) 

But in any event the 10,000 PF poster deal Egbert describes is entirely different.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 20, 2013, 04:49:13 PM
It sold for $477, so let's hope it's the real deal....

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20-%20final.jpg)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Bruce on January 20, 2013, 05:35:51 PM
It sold for $477, so let's hope it's the real deal....

It is we at eMoviePoster.com who take ALL the risk! If it can ever be shown to be a repro, we will refund the entire amount,

I just had a case where I tracked down a one-sheet that was not from the first release, but from an unmarked early re-release a few years later.

I auctioned it NINE years ago for $650, and I e-mailed the buyer offering a full refund!

Find me ANY other auctioneer who gives refunds nine years later, or who spends lots of time tracking down past buyers!
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 20, 2013, 06:43:14 PM
It is we at eMoviePoster.com who take ALL the risk! If it can ever be shown to be a repro, we will refund the entire amount,

I just had a case where I tracked down a one-sheet that was not from the first release, but from an unmarked early re-release a few years later.

I auctioned it NINE years ago for $650, and I e-mailed the buyer offering a full refund!

Find me ANY other auctioneer who gives refunds nine years later, or who spends lots of time tracking down past buyers!

Why don't you just inspect it yourself?  If it's on typical 1970s thin/glossy movie poster paper with acid tanning, it's the real deal.  If it's on the minty-white rougher paper, it's probably one of the commercial posters.  Otherwise, anybody can just order the $20 41" commercial poster from movieposter.com, consign it to you, and pick up $$$.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 20, 2013, 07:04:26 PM
Why don't you just inspect it yourself?  If it's on typical 1970s thin/glossy movie poster paper with acid tanning, it's the real deal.  If it's on the minty-white rougher paper, it's probably one of the commercial posters.  Otherwise, anybody can just order the $20 commercial poster from movieposter.com, consign it to you, and pick up $$$.
Bruce really has the time to individually inspect every poster passing thru his website? C`mon Mel get a grip.

Stew
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 20, 2013, 07:08:00 PM
Bruce really has the time to individually inspect every poster passing thru his website? C`mon Mel get a grip.

Stew

This one sold for $477, it's hardly asking too much to check it out. 

Heritage last week sold a bootleg Star Wars for $200 and retroactively canceled it after confirming it was a bootleg, so it's no big deal.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 20, 2013, 07:13:58 PM
This one sold for $477, it's hardly asking too much to check it out. 

Heritage last week sold a bootleg Star Wars for $200 and retroactively canceled it after confirming it was a bootleg, so it's no big deal.
Man that is so sad....You have no idea how hard it would be for a website owner to try to figure out you random question..

Stew
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 20, 2013, 07:17:04 PM
Man that is so sad....You have no idea how hard it would be for a website owner to try to figure out you random question..

Stew


What?

It was advertised as "An Original Vintage Theater-Used Unfolded Style B One-Sheet Movie Poster." (http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=2828652)

It is a perfect rolled copy that is definitely not "Theater-Used" and very possibly is a low-value commercial poster.

It sold for $477.

It would take less than 10 seconds to take a second look and figure out if it is original.

It is not a "big deal" or "hard" to check it out and doing so would be absolutely appropriate under these circumstances.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: CSM on January 20, 2013, 07:20:36 PM
This one sold for $477, it's hardly asking too much to check it out.  

Heritage last week sold a bootleg Star Wars for $200 and retroactively canceled it after confirming it was a bootleg, so it's no big deal.

Unfortunately, Heritage seems to do this a lot.  And it's usually only after collectors notify them!
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Zorba on January 20, 2013, 07:22:12 PM
Unfortunately, Heritage seemed to do this a lot.  And it's usually only after collectors notify them!

+1

Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 20, 2013, 07:26:24 PM
Mel,you seem to set a question for everyone that you already know the answer to
Just my thought.

Stew

Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: CineMasterpieces on January 21, 2013, 11:18:32 AM

I have not seen in person one of these rolled Animal House one sheets that is on a different kind of paper. I have seen several that are on the "right" kind. However, even if it is on a different kind of paper I wouldn't be so quick to immediately classify it as a reprint/commercial poster. Maybe it is just a different printing. We all know that posters from that era were often printed at more than one location. If it is a full size 27x41 (or within 1/8" of that), in my opinion it stands a better chance of being authentic than it does of being a reprint. Most (not all) reprints are usually significantly undersized.

I have probably had about 10 or so rolled ones over the years. All have been on the same kind of paper. Never seen one that felt different or stood out.

That being said.....If the print QUALITY is different, and if the paper is super minty white and it smells funny... then I would be very suspicious.

I remember being at the hollywood collectors show several years ago and this lady dealer had a "the sting" one sheet, flat never folded shrink wrapped on foam core for sale. Even though it was shrink wrapped I could tell it wasn't the right kind of paper. I took out my tape measure and it was 27x40. She got very angry with me when I politely suggested it was a reprint.

We have posters shipped to us all the time. Every now and then we will get in something that just doesn't feel or look right. It is almost always very easy to tell if something is a reprint.

As for the whole paper test thing......I think it is flawed. Don't get me wrong. MPGrading is great and Todd Spoor is doing great things for the hobby, I just do not think their scientific tests are 100% accurate.





Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 21, 2013, 11:22:54 AM
Mel,you seem to set a question for everyone that you already know the answer to
Just my thought.

Stew



Got an email from Emovie saying they think it's not an original.  So Stewie that means when you and I meet, I get the first swing ;)

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Scottish.jpg) (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgzfxs_if-it-s-not-scottish-it-s-crap_shortfilms#.UP1rj4njk5w)


That being said.....If the print QUALITY is different, and if the paper is super minty white and it smells funny... then I would be very suspicious.


You would instantly know this one is a repro just by the minty white and very unusual paper type.  I've got 1000+ posters and none of them are like this.  Like I said, it's just like a generic 24x36 but happens to be 41".
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Bruce on January 21, 2013, 11:32:12 AM
It is on a different sort of paper that is glossier on the back than regular one-sheets of that period.

As always, I err on the side of caution and I feel it is best to cancel it.

I will ask the consignor (someone who was getting rolled one-sheets in the 1970s and 1980s) what he knows about it. He may well know its origins.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: paul waines on January 21, 2013, 11:47:39 AM
Got an email from Emovie saying they think it's not an original.  So Stewie that means when you and I meet, I get the first swing ;)

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Scottish.jpg) (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgzfxs_if-it-s-not-scottish-it-s-crap_shortfilms#.UP1rj4njk5w)



 laugh1  Sorry Stew, the pic is funny...
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 21, 2013, 01:10:41 PM
Ok class, let's play "Where's Waldo"?  I have spotted at least clear difference between my commercial poster (right) and Dave's printer's proof (left).  (I'm not talking about any kind of coloration difference, the commercial does seem yellower, or a general sharpness difference.)

Who can spot it?

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20house%20-%20compare.jpg)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 21, 2013, 02:08:50 PM
Fair enough Mel, :)
Just not the teeth..I need them for Haggis munching.


(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx132/stewartboyle/ginger_scotsman.jpg)

Stew
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 21, 2013, 02:19:27 PM

 laugh1  Sorry Stew, the pic is funny...

It is Paul,it is... ;D

Stew

Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 21, 2013, 05:24:31 PM
Tough to spot but it's very clear in person.  In the upper left, the "trail" from the falling tire is barely visible on the commercial reprint.  Looks like somebody tried to erase it.

It is clearly visible on Dave's printer's proof.  

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20house%20-%20compare2.jpg)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: stewart boyle on January 21, 2013, 05:57:08 PM
The colours on your commercial poster are washed out..why would this tire trail not suffer the same fate?

Stew
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 21, 2013, 06:12:02 PM
Folded poster - trail clearly prominent:

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20-%20tire%20trail2.jpg)

My poster (no flash) - trail very faint:

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20-%20my%20poster%20trails.JPG)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 21, 2013, 07:45:12 PM
Added an authentication based on the available info here:

www.moviepostercollectors.com/MPC_Authentication_Animal_House.html

All constructive comments welcome. All witticisms from Chris, GIFs from Brude, and threats of fisticuffs from Stewie are unwelcome :)

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-01/Animal%20House%20-%20MPC.jpg) (http://www.moviepostercollectors.com/MPC_Authentication_Animal_House.html)
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: CSM on January 21, 2013, 10:15:41 PM
Damn no witticisms?!  What am I supposed to do now?
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Neo on January 21, 2013, 10:22:13 PM
Good work, Mel.  thumbup
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: paul waines on January 22, 2013, 01:43:41 AM
yea, that's one of Chris's special powers... :D
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: jayn_j on January 22, 2013, 03:08:56 PM
Good job, Mel.  Yeah, my poster has the trail fairly well defined.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: paul waines on January 22, 2013, 03:27:47 PM
I still have trouble trying to understand, Why this poster goes for this price...?  anyone? 
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: CSM on January 22, 2013, 04:58:30 PM
I still have trouble trying to understand, Why this poster goes for this price...?  anyone? 

You'll need to send a referral to the PPP Mr. Waines
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on January 22, 2013, 09:50:53 PM
I picked up a folded one today for $100: (http://www.ebay.com/itm/11100354114)

(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/AnimalHouse-purchased.jpg)

Will post comparison posters when it arrives.

The seller says it passes my testzzzz....
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Ari on January 23, 2013, 12:35:49 AM
You'll need to send a referral to the PPP Mr. Waines

As always nostalgia, although I am lost like you as to it. I remember seeing it as a kid, with my mother and I didn't understand why she didn't like it. But unlike carry on films, I soon grew out of this sort of humour.
But perhaps if you look at them as the American version of carry on, then it might help.

I have a friend who believes King Frat is the greates movie ever made, so figure that one out.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: jayn_j on January 23, 2013, 07:46:56 AM
I still have trouble trying to understand, Why this poster goes for this price...?  anyone?  

Because two (uninformed) people really wanted it, of course.
Title: Re: Rolled Animal House one sheets?
Post by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on February 02, 2013, 07:38:35 PM
Received an "original" and compared it to the supposed reprint.  No new information to report.  They are the same size but the reprint is noticeably fainter than the original.  The original is on typical thin paper of that era and has noticeable acid tanning, whereas the reprint is perfectly minty white on thick paper.  

You can see the loss of detail in at least two places, as shown below:

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-02/Animal%20House%20compare%201.JPG)

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-02/Animal%20House%20compare%202.JPG)

(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE2/2013-02/Animal%20House%20compare%203.JPG)