So does that make MoviePosterDB.com an accessory to a crime?
A bartender serves you one or two drinks, you get drunk and kill someone with your car, is he/she responsible? No.
If there were a website with large sharp images of twenty dollar bills that you could download and print, and then use to cheat people, why would that site not be aiding and abetting criminals, and how is this any different?Say you specialised in opium/poppy seeds..all you are doing is selling opium seeds,nowt wrong with that.
There have been lots and lots of cases of bars successfully sued for getting people really drunk and then they kill someone in their cars.
There is no legitimate reason for selling high rez scans of copyrighted material OTHER THAN to make high quality copies.
And, if you send this info to Ebay and they ignore it, aren't they helping to facilitate a crime?
To put it somewhat into perspective, if we 'educate' all of tloce's customers we will have a large block of people taping legitimate posters to their dorm walls where they can become beer soaked and torn.
In a way, he is providing a service by putting out an inexpensive product to folks who don't really care.
<devil advocate mode off>
We need to take on this con artist extraordinare. I'm doing my part....
Kenobi: "I need your help, Luke. She needs your help. I'm getting too old for this sort of thing."Of course, it might not be so bad if every copy in circulation became beer soaked and torn.... as long as you already had one safely tucked away. :P
Skywalker: "Listen, I can't get involved! It's not that I like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now. It's such a long way from here."
Kenobi: "That's your uncle talking."
*****
We need to take on this con artist extraordinare. I'm doing my part....
I think this is the real problem - Ebay pretty much refuse to do anything about people who engage in criminal activity on their website (or at the least ignore it) , even after they are advised. Ebay should be campaigned against as much as the sellers of fakes. If you remove their outlet you may not stop them but you would certainly slow them down to a crawl.
It should be a concerted effort by all to clean up these people.
Mel, you draft the letter and I would be happy to send it to eBay for each and every identified fake item/seller. Surely it's a numbers game, the more that complain the more likely something will be done?
Are all of tloces posters fake?
Stew
The guy's an idiot.
who sells more posters than you and me multiplied ;)
;D
the curse of the nice guy, even women find them dull. moron1 :'(
who sells more posters than you and me multiplied ;)
join the club fella. :D
Wouldn't surprise me if Ebay cracked down on me for contacting the customers he's defrauding. Ebay primarily compares about $$$$. So long as Loce gives a refund to any customer who complains, Ebay is going to protect Loce and its commissions from his sales.
But at some point Ebay has to look at the facts. If a seller is consistently refunding buyers for the same infraction (reprints sold as originals) shouldn't that point to something fishy? TLoce can only make the same mistake over and over and over until he is held accountable, right? Right? :o
must depend on who is doing the dobbing also, since I have been in trouble for stupid things, like from Christopher Lees son, for selling a torture garden daybill.
Ari, this needs explaining....
I AM SORRY YOU FEEL THIS WAY, HOWEVER I MUST POINT OUT THAT YOUR FATHER IS IN FACT NOT IN TORTURE GARDEN, PETER CUSHING IS, DON'T FEEL BAD, A LOT OF PEOPLE GET THE TWO MIXED UP.
Years back, I was running a torture garden daybill on ebay, and it was removed by ebay, the sent an email stating I was violating copyright. Anyways I relisted, and same thing happened again, I spent some time backwards and forwards trying to get the details on what I was doing wrong. In the end, according to ebay, Christopher Lee's son (who apparently manages his affairs) had complained that I didnt have permission to sell items that feature Mr Lee.
I asked them to fwd a message to Mr Lee Jnr, something like:
I AM SORRY YOU FEEL THIS WAY, HOWEVER I MUST POINT OUT THAT YOUR FATHER IS IN FACT NOT IN TORTURE GARDEN, PETER CUSHING IS, DON'T FEEL BAD, A LOT OF PEOPLE GET THE TWO MIXED UP.
Too bad we couldn't hack eBay to fix his listings as per the truthful example
Chris, the thing is.. even when Loce happens to sell a real poster, he still photographs in the same murky light, against that brown shag carpet and with no attention to sharp focus. It is how he presents everything, legit, or not. :P
Yep he got that advice from Professor Powers' lectures
Until then I hope to continually ruin your day whenever you look at my feedback as you’ll be thinking “ I wish I could make a living off my passion of posters like Loce instead of wearing a monkey suit everyday and sucking my bosses ass “ .
A bartender serves you one or two drinks, you get drunk and kill someone with your car, is he/she responsible? No.
OK, so I don't buy modern stuff, so let me ask this question. How many of the posters does this guy sell which are fakes? I see he has incredible feedback and not too many neutrals or negatives, what's the deal?
He gets the negs removed is one explanation...the other is uninformed, naive bidders/buyers
OK, so how does he get them removed? And seriously, are ALL his posters fakes?
I'd also guess that if people make a claim to him a product is fake he will simply credit the purchase hence no sale hence no feedback can be recorded?
This is another way he gets around it. If he ever gets called out (which is rarely!) he just refunds...
Loce says he "only deals in original material that I acquired from legitimate sources" and that he "laughs heartily when I see you praise dealer X & dealer Y when I know I wouldn’t trust them with my mother . You have no idea of all the inner workings of the movie poster business."
Oh yeah, some people cure cancer, other send rockets to the Moon, but the inner workings of the movie poster business... Wow... Now that's some incredible knowledge to have. What a big man that Loce is.
T
Can MoviePosterDB sell the images? I guess not. Can Benito sell the images in a pdf book (http://www.benitomovieposter.com/catalog/custom-pdf.php), I guess not
The server is in the UK
I know of two other ways he can obtain even higher quality images than on IMDB but I dont wish to to make this information public. it doesnt involves scanning either.
Pretty sure the studios send the HQ digital images to the media (or put them on media-only websites).
But you don't really need and can't use super-size images anyway. The commercial printers I've dealt with only print posters out at 150dpi maximum. Loce's reprints are 150dpi, on heavy luster paper, with blurry text. Anyone on this forum would instantly recognize they are reprints. But his buyers are either too naive or just don't care that they are reprints. And they're all cheap $$.
But his buyers are either too naive or just don't care that they are reprints. And they're all cheap $$.
Just learned he has a fake Nurse 3D poster listed. Real one that I got is limited to 100, 27x39.5", and printed on cardstock. It's not a regular theatrical release. Loce lists it as a regular. It's fake for sure.
Looks like he must have quite the VHS collection, too... with un-boxed spares available to be used as "poster weights." :P
If that is truly a bootleg double sided Spidey it means they have moved up a notch where we now have to watch all double sided posters as much as the singles and a bad turn for the hobby as a result. Almost want to buy to see if it is a bootleg or not.
Ah, tells you how much attentions I pay to most modern posters. At least they aren't bootlegging lenticulars that I have heard of yet. ;D
and still for sale...like many othersIs there a "most fucked up movies" thread we can redirect this to...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KIDS-ROLLED-27X40-ORIG-MOVIE-POSTER-1995-LARRY-CLARK-CULT-CLASSIC-/311423914018?
Well, having the very similar ILSA Film Festival one sheet pop up at the same time is super suspicious. I'm not gonna hold my breath. It's NOT that exciting of a poster. It can live in the box.
And I dont ever recall reading before that tloce was one to "create" never before seen posters. His claim to fame, in collecting circles at least, was re-producing posters that already exist.
There are some Pirates of the Caribbean posters that have nice mermaids, only made in bus shelter size, that tloce had in one sheets. Someone mentioned other posters he had that were never produced by the studios.
Sounds like he took those large size images and shrunk them down. I wonder what it takes to do that?
Here's the auction:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371808889817?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I never bothered to look at it. It's in a box somewhere. How did i determine it was a fake? It's tloce and an as yet never-before-seen poster. It's so strange how he coincidentally has a similar ILSA Film Festival poster--done in the same style--that was never released and he has several copies of.
It's been more than 60 days, so i can not send it back, I DID just now try to report him to eBay---but doubt it will do any good.
...
Are all of this guys posters fake? I just ordered two from him, time to start the refund process I guess.
Are all of this guys posters fake? I just ordered two from him, time to start the refund process I guess.
...
Shawn was only ONE poster inside that mailer?
And if so, why in the heck did he charge you almost $11.00 for shipping? And that was back in 2011!
NO WAY would it have cost that much!. Overcharging for mailing a single poster, (or even a couple) in a tube is a huge peeve of mine. moron1
And how telling that the name of his outfit is Thomas Loce Productions. That may be a clue to other parts of his "production operation."
Looks like an older reproduction to me - the international version which you have (no ratings box) is known for reproductions, there are a lot of those around - it may have been printed a few years ago, which is why is may seems a little aged. Is it glossy on the back? Thats one way to tell with this Jaws insert. Other people on here would most likely have a better idea than me though - see what the experts say. Agree with The Taxi Driver - 100% knock off.
...
...
I am aware of the Loce bootlegs but, if someone is going to print a copy of the poster, how would the image within the poster construct be cropped differently to the original.?
Surely, the copy is made from just scanning the original and off to the printers you go? Cropping within a poster would more normally be done at source for some reason? Yes, no?
Calvin.. will these being going back to "the sender?"
Yes - already started the return process. Note that the Jaws one was from an auction (eBay) and the second was done directly through Paypal. He seems to offer a no-quibble return and has already sent me his address. You can see why he uses some age-old camera for his auctions, I already see he has listed several more and they have active bids. crying
Depends on how hard you want to work at fooling people. Simply scanning the original causes the lettering to become fuzzy, especially the small printer logo and the NSS text. By separating the elements, the crook can get a better copy.
I am beginning to think that the 'errors' are intentional and allow the crook to quickly spot legitimate ones. I also was surprised that somebody worked so hard to lower the condition of the Jaws poster. The fold marks and the missing surface paper. If someone went to that trouble, I would also expect condition issues on the edges, such as folds, small tears, pinholes, etc. The folds themselves don't make sense as it doesn't appear that the poster could be folded along those lines. Not enough space between the folds to hold the bottom portion.
Yes, I can verify his shoddy packaging. I've been going through my rolled poster tubes the last few days, and was shocked to find another package I had ordered from him in 2011---long before I was even aware of APF and when i had just moved to the shack-o-rama. The rectangular "tube" was bent and crushed. It came that way...with a note from the post office saying so. Whether the poster inside was a fake or not (it was the NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD 3D remake), I have NO idea. Nor do i care as the rolled poster has a nasty crease running through the whole thing, making it worthless to me.
...
He's in Rochester, NY, not NYC:
https://www.trulia.com/homes/New_York/Rochester/sold/21070768-481-Grand-Ave-Rochester-NY-14609
Here is the problem folks. I would estimate 80% of the people buying movie posters on ebay have no idea there is any difference between a large format inkjet printed poster and a theatrical poster and of those 80% 95% of them dont care, it is just what the market is today. Cheapest they can buy that looks like what they saw at the theater is all that matters. Ebay doesn't care, I report the f'ers that do the print on demand and list in the original category all the time and they never get removed, i dont know why they even separate the category.
I see Loce has been moving a bunch of counterfeit Halloween 35th Anniversary posters now, too. They're all single sided (originals all double sided) and he seems to again have an endless supply. So sad.
I'm guessing that even if Tom does feel any guilt, it is overshadowed by the likely fact he has no other worthwhile way of making a living and so is stuck in this position of having to move a certain amount of fake merchandise to pay the bills.
...
Well If I ever choose another site to host images I will post all poctures of his negative feedback that has been removed. Mel can't we contact the NY State Attorney General's office?
On the one hand 90-95% of his stuff is legit and does offer easy refunds. On the other, he's scammed THOUSANDS of eBayers with bootlegs and disguised reprints., 99% of them unaware permanently. (I assume a few learn about his fakes when they try to resell/consign them.)
Bruce is one of the trustworthy folks.
And why should eBay care - they just keep making money off him
Sorry to read about your suspect purchase, Wishmaniac. Seems tom loce will always be pushing the fake stuff on the unsuspecting and unknowing buyers.
Here's hoping you get a speedy and painless refund. Keep us posted and thanks for the info, too.
It's always good to have. thumbsup.gif
Thanks for the note, erik1925!
I requested to return the poster and TL has accepted my return, so it's in eBay's hands now.
The good news is... TL will be down a couple hundred bucks next week. :)
While I'm at it, btw, the dozen or so "Style A" one-sheets for this same film that have sold for such high prices on emovieposter over the years ... some of which would seem to be hanging out in shops on eBay at this very moment... are all extremely fishy too.
Hey everyone... I'm a newbie who joined because a friend and I bought spotless "Style B" Nude on the Moon one-sheets from Tom Loce recently and both thought they were fishy. I see from this forum he's a notorious piece of sh*t and that our concerns were merited. I'll take his offer for hassle-free returns but wanted to add this transaction to the list of his dubious activities. By the by, for future reference I own the original pressbook for Nude on the Moon and this style was NOT offered as a one-sheet... only a 40 x 60. Caveat emptor.
I'm attaching a photo of Loce's repro. He's actually got a third one up now, btw. And, unlike his usual, crazy high-priced Buy It Now listings he's offering these theoretically super-rare posters as 7-day auctions opening at $9.95.
While I'm at it, btw, the dozen or so "Style A" one-sheets for this same film that have sold for such high prices on emovieposter over the years ... some of which would seem to be hanging out in shops on eBay at this very moment... are all extremely fishy too. Let's just say this: what are the odds that every copy of this poster that emovieposter has sold in the past ten year would be in "fine to very good" condition" with zero signs of use? And all rolled, not folded? Pretty peculiar for an obscure, early Sixties nudist film poster, huh? And check out the first three copies of this poster they claim to have sold... the only ones with any signs of use. Notice that the pictures on all three auctions are of the same poster with the same defects? Also pretty strange. I think maybe I'll stop beating myself up for never having won one of these posters and let it go: somehow, the spell has been broken.
Glad to be part of your very knowledgeable community. Hope these comments help.
Congrats!!
And just curious.. when you wrote and said you wanted a refund because the poster wasnt genuine (if you said that or something similar), what was his reply, when he agreed to giving you your money back?
emp explains why these copies were found unfolded and where they were found, so it seems reasonable, in this particular case (and in the era when most posters were machine folded):
"Important Added Info: Note that this poster was found at a printer that printed many movie posters in the 1950s and 1960s, and which had gone out of business. They had kept samples of many of the movie posters they had printed over the years, and they were stored unfolded, and since they had been taken straight off the press, the samples were in exceptional unfolded condition! Most of the titles that were discovered in this find were very uninteresting (this printer did not print for major studios, but only for minor ones and independents), but included among these printer samples was this poster! As noted above, this poster is considered the "Holy Grail" of sexploitation movie posters, and it is unfolded and in wonderful condition!"
Lawyer Mel is not pursuing, what hope anyone else will? And Mel is APF champion of knowledge on poster copyright.
Leave a NEGATIVE review and state that the poster is a FAKE. Otherwise he will keep getting away with this. Too many people buy from him and leave him positive reviews because they do NOT know any better. Sorry this happened to you.
Cheers!
Tom is a man with a plan...and a large format printer with a supply of glossy paper.
He can fake anything he can get a high res scan of.
Now he's resorted to tearing off the section with the missing GAU logo -- what a sleaze ball.
STAR WARS ADVANCE 1977 ORIG MOVIE POSTER GEORGE LUCAS AS IS (http://www.ebay.com/itm/372005179731)
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s369/drharrycaul/s-l500_zpsmazyrdgx.jpg)
That's an MP urban legend. He doesn't have a commercial printer, which are ginormous, expensive, and hard-to-maintain/ink. He doesn't sell nearly enough dig fakes to make that viable.
How do I know? I ... er ... asked him and he credibly denied it.