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My pockets are full today, but my hands are empty and my heart is sunk :'(
The big boys must have caught wind of the auction I'm about to share with you all as I was outbid on everything I was interested in. I have known about this auction for a month, and I was in it to win it with some pretty large max bids. However, even though I wasn't outbid by much on the first stack of posters, it was by enough to know it was futile to think I could up my bids just a little bit and still win. And after I was blown away by the final bid on the second stack, I knew I would be leaving empty handed. Some of you may be asking yourselves, "WTF is 'ole Harry blathering about?" Well, I'm blathering about probably the biggest find of early movie posters in recent history. Just remember, you read it first here folks...
Apparently, the winter of 1930/31 was a cold one in central Pennsylvania. By spring it must have been too much to take as the owner of a small little bungalow went searching for insulation material for his attic. I can only assume that the owner or someone they knew worked at the local theater as the owner gather up about 30-50 one sheets, all between Dec. 1930 and May 1931. Clearly they had access to stacks of very recent posters. Regardless of how they were acquired, the owner neatly stacked up about 5-15 posters in 6 little bundles and put them between the rafters. And there they sat for exactly 80 years... likely oscillating between freezing/dry winters and hot/humid summers in that attic... until the owner of the house passed away late this summer and the contents of the house were auctioned in an estate sale this afternoon. What was most surprising was that the posters were, miraculously, in better shape them I'm sure anyone could have imagined...
Over the years the stacks had fused together, but when the auctioneers found them they were a still pliable if a bit brittle. They took the largest of the stacks and submerged it in a tub full of water. I'll give you all a second to curse/smack your foreheads/stare dumbfounded/etc.. at this point. They washed off the top poster of the stack and this is what it looked like after it was 'cleaned up':
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3715/007zcw.jpg)
They must have been thinking, "that doesn't look half bad!" Their 'success' and curiosity must have gotten the better of them, as then decided to try to divide the stack in half to see what poster was in the middle. Ugh, I know, but the stack apparently pulled right apart and this was what a poster from the *middle* of one of the stacks looks like:
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9638/019tnt.jpg)
This collection really needs to be name the "miracle collection" or something, as there is no other way to explain how they stayed in this good of condition, after both the 80 long years in storage and the abuse they suffered after they were found! :o Luckily, the auctioneer quit their 'restoration' efforts while they were ahead. They let the newly divided stack dry (so we are now up to 7 stacks total) and set them aside for auction. Here are the full photos I was sent of the fronts and backs of the 7 stacks that were to be auctioned:
STACK 1: LITTLE CAESAR - Pardon my language, but holy fucking shit. Presumably, this one will clean up as nicely as the dunked Criminal Code above. The colors are incredible and it is in surprisingly good shape. I tried to do some photoshop voodoo on the back image (boosting contrast, curves, etc...) to try to pull out the title of the poster that was on the bottom of the stack... but to no avail.
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3304/001waz.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9335/002ijn.jpg) (http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7325/004odm.jpg) (http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3483/005vcq.jpg)
STACK 2: CRIMINAL CODE (style A?) - This is the stack that had been close to 15 posters, but it was now down to 8-10. I'm floored at how saturated the colors still are! After some photoshop voodoo, you can clearly see the name Otis Skinner splashed across the lower portion of the poster on the back. Presumably this is a poster for Kismet which was released in late 1930. And it looks different enough in layout that I think it is a different style from the other Kismet poster below. In the middle of the stack, which they (sigh) pried apart, you can see 'Old English' with George Arliss. And I was also told that on the other side of the pried apart section, you can see 'Seed' with Bette Davis!
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3715/007zcw.jpg) (http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2152/008kzm.jpg) (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5166/009xia.jpg) (http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8180/010avm.jpg) (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5161/006lrj.jpg)
STACK 3: CRIMINAL CODE (style B?) - Again, incredible shape. On the back you can make out 'The Seas Beneath,' an early John Ford movie about WWI U-boat hunting... I can only imagine the stone litho design is breath-taking. Although, I'm not sure if it is complete or not given all the layers on visible from the back.
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/113/011je.jpg) (http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5720/012jwc.jpg) (http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5138/013bc.jpg)
STACK 4: REACHING FOR THE MOON - Again, this was what a poster looks like, if it is intact, from the *middle* of one of these stacks! Sadly, the posters on the back do not look in tact and I couldn't make them out anyway. Is that possibly Claudett Colbert? Unfortunately that poster isn't being revealed under the other layers, but instead those three colorful pieces are all that is left :'(
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9638/019tnt.jpg) (http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4114/020mj.jpg)
STACK 5: MILLIE - Now we start getting into stacks that are beat up. This one has what looks to be black mold stains on the front, and the top and sides are missing a good few inches of paper... artwork too, not just borders. On the back you can make out "DI" in the lower right (after flipping it horizontally so the text is in the correct direction) and "GLEN" in the top left. I'm fairly certain the back poster is this one from Dishonored with Dietrich: http://www.movieposterdb.com/poster/499c9658 Aside from the trimmed edges, it looks to be in very good shape!
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8426/018qte.jpg) (http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9465/017dnz.jpg)
STACK 6: MALTESE FALCON / KISMET - This one made me want to fucking cry. As far as I know there is no paper larger than a lobby card for the first film version of Maltese Falcon. That LC sold for $10K. I can only imagine how much this one sheet would have sold for if it was complete... which it is not. What you see is what is left of it. There is a different style Kismet under it. From the upper-middle right-side of the back, you can make out the names "Lloyd," "Lawford," and "Simpson," which corresponds with Kismet. I don't know if that is yet another style one-sheet, or the back of the one you see from the front.
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3711/016tt.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7986/015fo.jpg)
STACK 7: MILLIE - Finally, another Millie poster (looks like the same style), but it is in terrible shape with layers of multiple other lost posters on top. They didn't even bother with a backside image of this one...
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3711/016tt.jpg)
So what were the results?
1. Little Caesar + 3-5 more -- $9,250
2. Criminal Code A, Old English, Seed, Kismet A, + 4-6 more -- $16,500!!!
3. Criminal Code B, Seas Beneath + 2-4 more -- $1,600
4. Reaching for the Moon + 3-5 more -- I think around $900
I quit phone bidding there and hung up. If I wasn't going to be going to the trouble of restoring something I knew was worth while, I didn't want to bother with the other stacks. All of these would have to be shipped flat and based on the damage, you never know what will be intact and what won't.
Anyway, so there you have it. I'm sure after a restoration delay, 30-50 newly discovered one sheets from early 1931 will be probably be coming to auction soon. Only about a dozen of which do we know the titles for. And for those of you keeping track of dates, Dracula was released dead in the middle of the range covered by these posters, in February 1931 ;D If a previously unknown one-sheet turns up at auction soon, you'll know where it came from!
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Harry.. if the auction is over already.. why not post a link to the auction so we can look and see the rest
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Because it was a live, onsite auction and the auctioneer doesn't even have a working website!
http://patriotantiqueandauctioncenter.com/
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Matt, you resumed my feelings in one simple sentence: "holy fucking shit"
wow1
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I was on the phone too, and quit, and got nothing. I would bet Heritage or Ralph Deluca got them. If I could have gone and seen them in person, I might have been able to bid much higher.
This is like buying lottery tickets. You might win huge.
Of course, missing Edward G. on Little Caesar is like having a Dracula poster with no Lugosi.
I guarantee I have as much experience with separated 80 to 90 year old posters as anyone, and these will LOOK great when they are restored, but they will also have a "dipped in paint" look.
Depending on who got these, they may or may not show up at auction soon.
Bruce
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Of course, missing Edward G. on Little Caesar is like having a Dracula poster with no Lugosi.
I wouldn`t mind ;D
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I was on the phone too, and quit, and got nothing. I would bet Heritage or Ralph Deluca got them. If I could have gone and seen them in person, I might have been able to bid much higher.
Son of a... I scour the damn ends of the internet to find obscure auctions like this and you bastards probably get invites on a silver platter! ;D I was told there were only about 5 serious bidders (myself included), 3 on the phone in 1-2 in person. I agree, had I been able to inspect them in person I might have had a better idea of how to bid.
I'm not sure about your "dipped in paint" comment though... Sure, for some of them that need to be literally re-assembled from bits and pieces, they will need heavy resto. However, considering how good that Reaching for the Moon looks having been soaked in a tub and pulled out of the middle of one of the stacks... if I pro pulls the rest of them apart I'm guessing they will come out looking great!
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I wouldn`t mind ;D
Agreed, IMO having a Dracula poster without Lugosi (style C?) would be like having a fucking DRACULA poster!!! Also, from what I've read EGR didn't make it on much of any of the paper for this film. Only the WC and maybe a scene LC or two... Are there even any known 1-sheets for this movie yet?
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Anyone know what they went for?
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First post ;)
1. Little Caesar + 3-5 more -- $9,250
2. Criminal Code A, Old English, Seed, Kismet A, + 4-6 more -- $16,500!!!
3. Criminal Code B, Seas Beneath + 2-4 more -- $1,600
4. Reaching for the Moon + 3-5 more -- I think around $900
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2. Criminal Code A, Old English, Seed, Kismet A, + 4-6 more -- $16,500!!!
3. Criminal Code B, Seas Beneath + 2-4 more -- $1,600
what this says is that one of the posters in the #2 pile, which can be seen by maybe a small segment, was recognized as something important and which could possibly be retrieved from the stack
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That could very well be. They did say you could see a Bette Davis poster for 'Seed' in the middle. However, I still can't imagine that resulting in such a high bid. There were clearly at least 2 people duking it out... maybe they knew something I didn't after seeing them in person. Still I went all CSI on the photos and tried to gather as much info as possible.
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Thanks for sharing this Matt. Very interesting and too bad you didn't win anything!
I can understand the auctioneers wanting to know what they had - but - come on, being in the auction business you'd think they'd of had more sense!? Dipping the stack in water?! This probably just glued them together even more. If it were my find all the stacks would have stayed untouched until they could get to someone reputable with a proper skill set (with me watching of course! ;) )
I do wonder what else was in there though...
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Oh and I can't make out any of the supposed 1931 Maltese Falcon poster?
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Sorry Chris, I linked to the wrong photo and now I can't edit it... here is the closest anyone will probably ever come to an original 1931 Maltese Falcon poster. Sniff sniff. :'(
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/416/014fax.jpg)
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Thanks Matt. Now that makes more sense.
Could it not be that the rest is just stuck to the poster that was above it? Maybe there is hope? But then again Falcon without Bogie doesn't mean too much really ;)
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I am STILL trying to fathom these guys trying to pry them apart on their own - a travesty really!
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But then again Falcon without Bogie doesn't mean too much really ;)
I hope you're kidding.. I mean you do realize that it is one of the Great American novels, don't you??
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I hope you're kidding.. I mean you do realize that it is one of the Great American novels, don't you??
I recently read most of the back catalogs of both Chandler and Hammett... really great stuff and I would highly recommend almost all of them.
Have you seen the 1931 Falcon Rich? Does it compare to the Bogie version?
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I hope you're kidding.. I mean you do realize that it is one of the Great American novels, don't you??
I DISAGREE WITH YOU
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I recently read most of the back catalogs of both Chandler and Hammett... really great stuff and I would highly recommend almost all of them.
Have you seen the 1931 Falcon Rich? Does it compare to the Bogie version?
Bogie's is certainly better, he pulls off Spade where Cortez just does OK. The '31 version DOES have Thelma Todd though. wow1
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Did Mel not buy them? laugh1
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Excellent read Harry, thanks for posting this.
I love these kind of stories, it reminds me of the one where a pet shop owner was using old lobby cards, tearing them up and lining the bottom of a parrots cage. From memory the story goes he had a stack of them out back of his shop, which were rescued as a collector had spotted the torn up cards in the bottom of the cage, and had quizzed the shop keep, if he had anymore...
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That's quite a story, Harry.
What really irks me the most is that you didn't "out" this in the Mid-Auction thread.
What were you thinking, man?
wynk
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Harry, I haven't seen it in some years, but it was a decent movie. there is also a Bette Davis version called the Satan Met a Lady in 1936 which sort of rewrites the plot some
now.. who wants to join me in a war with Hammett Hater, CSM
gun1 gun2
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I cant believe those went that high. What if a restorer cannot even get the things apart. I would imagine the high bidder has more money than they need and 16K is like an evening out for them.
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Harry, I haven't seen it in some years, but it was a decent movie. there is also a Bette Davis version called the Satan Met a Lady in 1936 which sort of rewrites the plot some
now.. who wants to join me in a war with Hammett Hater, CSM
gun1 gun2
I'm always into starting a flame war, but since I don't know where CSM stands on linenbacking (http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,2092.0.html (http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,2092.0.html)), I have no jumping off point. ;D
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Harry, I haven't seen it in some years, but it was a decent movie. there is also a Bette Davis version called the Satan Met a Lady in 1936 which sort of rewrites the plot some
now.. who wants to join me in a war with Hammett Hater, CSM
gun1 gun2
Psssh...'Maltese Falcon' sounds like the kind of title an alcoholic, former Pinkerton Detective would come up with. Oh wait a minute...
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I'm always into starting a flame war, but since I don't know where CSM stands on linenbacking (http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,2092.0.html (http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,2092.0.html)), I have no jumping off point. ;D
I do know where I stand with idiot auctioneers attempting their own amateur restoration/investigation techniques!
These are finite resources afterall people :P
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I'm glad y'all enjoyed this write up!
For some of you old timers, when was the last time something like this happened? I know there was some sort of fabled New Zealand horror find, but I think those were smaller (if more valuable) posters like inserts and half sheets. IIRC those were also pulled out of some walls. When was that find anyway? Do you know of more finds? Especially of one-sheets? That is what I was most surprised about with this lot. LC and WC, yes. Inserts and HSs, maybe. But, 30-50 one sheets from 1931... are you kidding me?
Also, either the titles were cherry picked, or they were more consistent with putting out good films back then. Pretty much all the titles that are visible were either from fairly popular films or were at least done by important directors (Hawks, Ford, etc...). If I found a lot of 50 pre-50s 1-sheets, I would probably expect a few to be worth some money. If they were from the 60s-70s, I would hope that maybe 1 or 2 might be worth something. If it was from the 80s+ I would assume they were probably all crap! :P Maybe the theater this stash came from only played bigger films or something...
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Harry.. I'll let others comment on the other deals, though those of us who have been around a long time remember lots of such deals in posters and comics
also, the reason there are top titles is that the theatre was probably a "first run" house
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I never get tired of reading this:
Many of you know the story that took place in Provost, Canada. A few have seen actual pieces from that famous find but many of us have never heard the legend. Below is the story of the Royal Theater Find told by author (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KQV7182VL._SS500_.jpg) Jon Warren, himself.
The Royal Theater Collection -- Jon R. Warren
--------------------------------------------------------
Kirby, Sol Candell, Bruce, Morris and (if he reads MPT) Todd will have fun contributing to this thread and reminiscing about this great find.
In 1990 or 91, can't remember now, a group of investors and I purchased what has come to be called the Canadian Collection for $320,000 (or somewhere around there, something over $300,000 but I don't recall the exact amount).
I flew up there, inspected the collection, and paid the cashier's check to THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT!
The collection was a matter of legal dispute over who owned the posters...so the collection was sold and, pending the outcome of the court, the proceeds were to be paid to the winner of the argument.
In a small town in Canada named Provost there once was a theater called The Royal Theater (what a great name!). The posters found there truly were royal.
The theater had been in the family since the 1920s, and in the late 1980s it had been sold to a new owner who was renovating it to be turned into a video store.
In the process of tearing out walls, lo and behold, a closet was found with a door in the floor which led down into a long-lost basement. In the basement were piles upon piles of old movie posters, dating from about 1929 and going through about 1950. From this time period, virtually every film that had been released was represented by multiple one sheets, lobby card sets, and (oddly enough) mini window cards. Even more astounding was the condition of the posters. Because of the dark and dry and cool conditions, the posters were in simply unbelievable condition (except for those that had what we called rat piss on them, yellow streaks of...well...rat piss). Pristine white borders without the slightest trace of yellowing. Brilliant colors that practically glowed. And the smell...ahh that faint musty scent...
Stacks and stacks, multiple copies, mint sets of Casablanca, Hound of the Baskervilles, Adventures of Robin Hood... you name it, it was there. Except for Universal horror, which was oddly not represented at all. Some have speculated that the Universal horror films were not shown in Canada due to censors. Others have speculated that the Universal horror WAS there, and that what the police confiscated and sold to me and my group was really just the tip of the iceberg. If so, what a tip!
Now, the new owner had told the work crew to clear the place out, to gut it, and to get rid of all the accumulated junk and trash.
So they did. But on the way to the dump one of the workers got the bright idea that the posters might have value. They decided to keep them and take them to the flea market that Saturday. And that was when the troubles began. Little did they know that by doing so they were breaking Canadian law.
Some of the others can chip in here, for the details of that Saturday, exactly how Sol Candell became involved, and other facts in the early discovery of the posters is a bit vague for me after all these years.
I remember that somehow Candell (coincidentally?) was at the flea market, that they started something called the Edmonton Poster Society, that a TV news show spotlighted the society, which was how the original theater owners and the new theater owners came to find out they had been ripped off (really now, they didn't even know the posters were there and besides, had given instructions to throw out the trash), but nevertheless, after the news show exclaimed how wonderful and possibly valuable these posters could be all hell broke loose and a war over the posters began.
The first thing that happened was the new owner had the work crew members arrested for theft. One of the work crew, a Daniel Pelletier (I believe his first name was Daniel, might have been David) was mentally unstable, or on medication which he failed to get while in jail. He committed suicide. He couldn't live with the idea of going to jail for something he did not even know was against the law.
The police confiscated the posters, and it was these confiscations that my group purchased from the court. But, I have heard that only part of the posters were at the home where the police raid occurred and that a larger portion were elsewhere at the time, either at Sol Candell's or somewhere else.
The poster collecting world first became aware of the Canadian collection when Sol Candell ran a small ad in Movie Collector's World (I would love a copy of that issue) offering classic titles for dirt cheap prices. Poor Sol had no idea of the true value of some of these gems. He was selling Adventures of Robin Hood one sheets for $200, classic Temples and Garbos for $100, and so on. Maltese Falcon, mint, $50. That kind of thing.
A mle ensued.
Kirby McDaniel, Morris Everett, and Gary Vaughn were among the first callers, being so smart that they regularly had their copies of MCW delivered via Federal Express just for such eventualities. Todd Feiertag didn't bother to call. He hopped in his car and drove to Edmonton! Some wonder what Universal horrors the master Universal horror collector may or may not have obtained during this trip. Can you say Mummy?
A significant number of posters were sold to collectors all around the world as a result of that ad, and they all came to be named in the lawsuit. It seemed the Canadian government demanded the return of the posters under penalty of law!
Of course, the letters demanding the return of posters fell on reluctant collector ears, all of whom promptly filed the letters in file 13.
Before long, the law raided Sol Candell's place and confiscated his remaining posters, but not before a significant number were sold. And probably not before the work crew called and alerted him, giving him plenty of time to haul off a large bulk and store them in a secure, un-police-raided place.
Somewhere, about here, in this timeline, one of the workers (or someone, I can't remember the exact details) drove to Sol Candell's and demanded the return of the posters which had been given to Sol for consignment (these were the ones Sol was selling in MCW). According to legend, the story that was told to me, this person was found dead in his car on the side of the road a few days later. No posters were in his car. After getting posters from Sol, what happened to the young man? Had someone been casing Sol's place, waiting to rob him, and then followed the man who had loaded the piles of posters into his car? No one knows. The posters he took away that day were never found.
I received a letter in the mail from the Royal Canadian Government, notifying me of their intent to accept bids for the enclosed list of movie posters. It seems that the court was soliciting bids from major advertisers for the sale of the posters.
The list was, to put it mildly, mind blowing. After calculating conservatively, I figured the value of the collection to be worth more than $900,000. Way too rich for my blood, alone. But I had friends. After some convincing and arm twisting (they came into the deal kicking and screaming) they agreed to put in enough money to make a realistic bid. Steve Geppi was the largest investor, I was second, Steve Fishler was third, and Mark Wilson was the fourth investor.
The gossip and grapevine rattling surrounding the rumors of who was bidding and how much they were going to bid is a story unto itself. We were trying to reconnoiter bids so that we could top the second bid by the least amount possible. But it was Steve Geppi who said, to hell with it, let's not gamble, bid enough that we get it and don't worry about bidding too much more than the second guy.
We won the bid.
Mark Wilson and I went to Edmonton to take possession. I spent several days going through the collection, a time I will never forget. This was poster heaven. I mean, it was beyond my wildest dreams to ever get to see such gorgeous posters, much less own them. Mark and I kept shaking our heads at the incredible condition. And at the incredible titles.
Who won the lawsuit? What do you think? Did the original owner sell the real estate AND contents, or just the real estate. Who did the posters belong to? Who got the money? I'll tell you one thing: the workers didn't get it, they got criminal records instead.
Turns out, believe it or not, that the ORIGINAL OWNERS got the money. The new owner bought the real estate, but all the junk and papers abandoned inside were the property of the original owner until the second they hit the junkyard, at which time they would have became public domain.
Just think, if the workers had dumped the posters at the dump and then came back later and retrieved them they would have been the proud owners, legally, of a bunch of movie posters. But since they waylaid them prior to the dumping, they were thieves. Ironic, huh?
Over the next year or two we sold the collection. We recouped our investment within six months. My investors were extremely happy. They all now liked movie posters very much. Steve Fishler liked them so much he started collecting them. He has amassed quite a collection since that day in Tennessee when we decided to become partners and buy a collection in Canada. His collection includes a little poster we fondly call the Frankenstein six sheet.
How he came to own that six sheet is another story, quite different from the version we have seen on television. The poster was not found in a locked suitcase.
But that's another story. And I'm not at liberty to divulge, unfortunately, for it's a great yarn and spans the globe.
Jon R. Warren
Warren's Movie Poster Price Guide
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Thanks Matias! I do recall reading that over at NSFGE a while back. I can't believe that was only 20 years ago. Surely there must be more stashes out there... I must stay on the hunt!
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Thanks Matias!
Yes. Thanks.
Great read. Why most of us come here.
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Thanks Matias!
Agree. I never tire of reading that story.
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Thanks guys thumbup
I recall (but can`t find) another story on NSFGE about a discovery of a huge lot made by Dario...
Anyone remembers?
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This is one of the reasons why I don't buy linenbacked posters. Linenbackers can work miracles on paper. Like reconstructing surgery, they can rebuild a poster from scratch. But as far as I'm concerned, if a poster is missing more than 10-15% of its body mass, regardless of its rarity or price, it's not a real poster anymore. Like Bruce said: They will have a "dipped in paint" look. Too much is added to the surface. As a collector, this is a leap I'm not ready to take. Call it a limitation on my part, but I just can't go there. I might as well buy a reprint.
T
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But as far as I'm concerned, if a poster is missing more than 10-15% of its body mass, regardless of its rarity or price, it's not a real poster anymore.
I wouldn`t mind owning this not real poster ;)
(http://www.benitomovieposter.com/catalog/images/movieposter/40181.jpg)
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This is one of the reasons why I don't buy linenbacked posters. Linenbackers can work miracles on paper. Like reconstructing surgery, they can rebuild a poster from scratch. But as far as I'm concerned, if a poster is missing more than 10-15% of its body mass, regardless of its rarity or price, it's not a real poster anymore. Like Bruce said: They will have a "dipped in paint" look. Too much is added to the surface. As a collector, this is a leap I'm not ready to take. Call it a limitation on my part, but I just can't go there. I might as well buy a reprint.
T
I'm not sure we are talking about the same posters here... are you saying Little Caesar, the Reaching for the Moon or either of the Criminal Codes will need to be 'dipped in paint' during restoration? Sure they are a little dinged up and wrinkled due to moisture, but I think they'll look fantastic after restoration and there is very little missing paper (hence very little re-painting necessary). I'm fairly certain those four posters (and the stacks of posters underneath them) make of the majority of the value of the lot, which is why I and at least one other bidder stopped after those were sold. Sure, the Falcon is a goner for instance, but I don't think anyone was considering trying to make that look new again.
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But the only thing that is keeping them from "restoring" those bits of Maltese Falcon is that there is no known original to compare with. I wonder if that will stop them?
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But the only thing that is keeping them from "restoring" those bits of Maltese Falcon is that there is no known original to compare with. I wonder if that will stop them?
I am still holding out hope that the rest is just stuck to another poster...
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He's a bit about the New Zealand Universal Horror find as relayed by Jim Gresham in MCW:
http://www.mcwonline.com/pdf/705drv.pdf
THE NEW ZEALAND COLLECTION
"During the early part of 1999, a collection of Universal Pictures half sheets were discovered under the floor of a
house being renovated in Wellington, New Zealand. The posters were in an amazing state of preservation, with the
majority of them in very fine to mint condition. The family that found them realized they had something unique and
tried to sell them through a local antique publication for $25.00 each. They had one call regarding the posters and the man who called offered
to buy every poster the family had. The family became suspicious that they might have something far more valuable
than they realized, so they declined the man’s offer and went about finding a way to discover the true value of the posters.
Through the internet, they found several poster dealers, but couldn’t find any prices to compare their posters to
(hey guys anyone who has ever bought a high line poster can relate to this, can’t we?). They next contacted some of the
auction houses including, Christie’s South Kensington and Bonham’s. The auction houses promised them quite a
return on their posters and the family suddenly became aware of the posters true value. However, rather than
pay high commissions and wishing to keep their discovery somewhat quiet, they decided to sell their collection privately.
It was at this point the family contacted a private dealer who then contacted Cinema Icons. The dealer knew
that Ron dealt in very rare Universal horror posters and that he would make them a fair offer on their items. In June
1999, he traveled to New Zealand and purchased one complete set of half sheets (meaning both the A and B styles) of each title they had.
Upon his arrival back in the U.S., the posters were immediately sold into private collections. And that’s where the story should have ended…
Over the course of the next year, he began to hear rumors the people in New Zealand still had more half sheets.
The rumor was that there were multiple copies of some of the half sheets, and there was at least one other complete set
of what he had purchased the prior year. He discounted the rumors because the family asked him to keep our transaction
quiet. They didn’t want people to know the posters had already been sold. He assumed the set he had purchased
was the same set that collectors were saying was still available. During this time, he kept hearing about the posters
coming to auction, first Sotheby’s New York, then Christie’s South Kensington. But with each catalog that was issued,
the posters failed to materialize, and he came to the conclusion that the rumor was just that; a rumor!
In October 2000, the New Zealand family called Ron. They told him that they did indeed still have more half
sheets. They were tired of dealing with the auction houses and were getting spooked when strange people were
showing up on their doorstep in New Zealand and asking about the posters. They wanted to know if he was interested
in buying them out.
He went into negotiations with them and was able to purchase all of their remaining posters. Before Ron
did this, he managed to get a statement from them that this was indeed the last of the posters.
The following list of posters accounts for the entire inventory of the horror posters from the New Zealand Collection.
Although Universal didn’t mark their half sheets as A and B styles, for simplicity, we’ve denoted the style that
has the same image as the title card as style A.
The Bride of Frankenstein (1935)
Style A – 2 copies
Style B – 3 copies (1 with the borders trimmed off)
The Raven (1935)
Style A – 1 copy
Style B - 4 copies
The Invisible Ray (1936)
Style A – 2 copies
Style B – 1 copy
Dracula’s Daughter (1936)
Style A – 3 copies (1 with a significant chunk out of the left side)
Style B – 4 copies
Well, Ron, I hope I got the details correct. But, the bottom line is, where will we make the next great find, and
who will make it????? In my mind there are still collections to be found!"
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And anyone who has not read about the "Mile High" comics & 1952 Topps Baseball card finds should - even though they are not about posters they are both still very entertaining and interesting stories!
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The Bride of Frankenstein (1935)
Style A – 2 copies
Style B – 3 copies (1 with the borders trimmed off)
The Raven (1935)
Style A – 1 copy
Style B - 4 copies
The Invisible Ray (1936)
Style A – 2 copies
Style B – 1 copy
Dracula’s Daughter (1936)
Style A – 3 copies (1 with a significant chunk out of the left side)
Style B – 4 copies
Please, kill me....
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Please, kill me....
I know Matias - I wonder if the value of those 20 posters was equated into the sale price of the house originally? ;)
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And anyone who has not read about the "Mile High" comics & 1952 Topps Baseball card finds should - even though they are not about posters they are both still very entertaining and interesting stories!
Read about it a few years back. An incredible story. Probably Sean, Rich or Bruce might know some more.
It can be read in MIle High`s site:
http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg12.html (http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg12.html)
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But the only thing that is keeping them from "restoring" those bits of Maltese Falcon is that there is no known original to compare with. I wonder if that will stop them?
If someone has an original pressbook, the complete image should be in there and although black and white, the colors in the partial could give the artist something to go by.
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As far as I can tell, only one title LC and one scene LC is all that has been sold for this title between Christies, HA and eMovie. There were some 8x10s too, but that was it. And nothing that matched the embrace clearly seen on the partial 1-sheet that I posted a photo of. :'(
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I wouldn`t mind owning this not real poster ;)
(http://www.benitomovieposter.com/catalog/images/movieposter/40181.jpg)
Me too, Matias ... ;D
Jeff
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He's a bit about the New Zealand Universal Horror find as relayed by Jim Gresham in MCW:
http://www.mcwonline.com/pdf/705drv.pdf
THE NEW ZEALAND COLLECTION
"During the early part of 1999, a collection of Universal Pictures half sheets were discovered under the floor of a
house being renovated in Wellington, New Zealand.
There have been some great finds in New Zealand. 10 years ago, I heard that a distributer had closed down and that an antique dealer had acquired all of their posters, lobby card sets, pressbooks and stills from the 50s to the 70s. The collection was absolutely huge with an estimated 500,000 items. I knew of the antique dealer and spent a couple of years trying to purchase the collection.
They finally decided to sell and I was invited to look through the collection. I didnt know where to start. There were piles and piles of posters spread across a huge area, many multiples including US one sheets and lobby cards, British posters, daybills and various other 3 sheets, 6 sheets, etc etc. After spending a few hours going through bundles of posters, it was fairly obvious that the majority of the posters were average titles and it was likely that a lot of the best posters had been picked over.
However there were some very good saleable titles like Halloween, Foxy Brown, etc and some great older Disney posters. My offer for the lot was accepted and I then had to decide what to do with it all. I only had a few days in NZ so decided the best thing to do was rent a warehouse and get everything sent there until I could work out a way of getting it all safely back to Australia.
I eventually shipped it all back home and then had a massive job of slowly going through it all. Every so often I would find something special but I still haven't finished sorting and photographing everything.
I have come across other similar collections with huge quantities of posters in New Zealand and I also found some 20s US half sheets (no Universal horror but some good titles).
The interesting thing about New Zealand is that they used posters from various countries so it is not usual at all to find British quads, US, Australian and some of the International format posters like one stops, etc.
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Thanks for sharing John. Some people have all the luck ;)
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I know Matias - I wonder if the value of those 20 posters was equated into the sale price of the house originally? ;)
Would love to know the back story, too.. ie: who the person was that originally put the posters under the floor (insulation reasons?), etc.
Did this person work for a theater, distributor? All make for added fascinating details, since various styles for the same great films were acquired and stored.
Jeff
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Would love to know the back story, too.. ie: who the person was that originally put the posters under the floor (insulation reasons?), etc.
Did this person work for a theater, distributor? All make for added fascinating details, since various styles for the same great films were acquired and stored.
Jeff
Jeff, Matt does state a little bit about the history in the first post.
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Jeezum crow.... 500,000 posters.
Apparently, you've lived the wet dream most of us poster hoarders pray for on a regular basis. wynk
Great story. Thanks for sharing.
cheers
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Jeff, Matt does state a little bit about the history in the first post.
Thanks Chris... i was drawn to the pics and quickly scanned the article.. missed that part...
thumbup
Jeff
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So is it possible this came from the middle of one of the stacks?
http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9017
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not if this is the only restoration:
Restoration has addressed pinholes, some tears and slight chipping in the image area, credits, and left border, and 1-3/4 " and 1" of missing white paper has been replace in the right and top border respectively
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not if this is the only restoration:
Restoration has addressed pinholes, some tears and slight chipping in the image area, credits, and left border, and 1-3/4 " and 1" of missing white paper has been replace in the right and top border respectively
Yes, I did notice that Rich - got me thinking maybe it was somewhat safely cocooned in the middle
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Yes, I did notice that Rich - got me thinking maybe it was somewhat safely cocooned in the middle
if you've ever seen a poster that was reclaimed from such a situation, you would know it is unlikely.
you lose all kinds of pieces from small to large and the result is a poster that Bruce calls lots of paint
such sandwich signs are slathered with wall paper paste to mount each successive poster and that is very difficult to deal with
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Heritage does mention "slight chipping" ;)
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such a process as unlayering pasted together paper sheets would leave major damage
when it was done with a panel years ago that had a 1931 Mummy 1sh, I don't think any poster in the layers was more than 50-75% present. that's why the Mummy only sold for $50k
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So is it possible this came from the middle of one of the stacks?
http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9017
I vote yes. Did you see this recent post by Grey?
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,3600.0/topicseen.html
For our upcoming March 2012 auction, deadline is January 25th, we are looking for valuable and rare posters for consignment to accompany pieces already in the auction which include:
Cimarron –one sheet
Public Enemy – Style A and B one sheets
Little Caesar- Style B one sheet
Dishonored- Style A and B one sheets
Maltese Falcon (1931)- one sheet
Ten Commandments (1923)- Style A and B one sheets
Black Room- Title Card
Ten Cents a Dance- Style A one sheet
Only Angels Have Wings- one sheet
Society Dog Show – one sheet
Scarlet Empress- half sheet
Cat People- one sheet
Three Weekends (1928)- one sheet
Bat Whispers- one sheet- Hap Hadley artwork
Front Page -1931 one sheet
Casablanca –one sheet
And many more….
1931 is making a strong showing in their upcoming action. I know for a fact that Dishonored and Little Ceasar were in the stack. And there were two Millies so I wouldn't be surprised if there were doubles of others (Maltese Falcon included). One of the stacks definitely had trimmed borders on the right and top.
From my original post... that stack had a trimmed border and Dishonored on the back.
STACK 5: MILLIE - Now we start getting into stacks that are beat up. This one has what looks to be black mold stains on the front, and the top and sides are missing a good few inches of paper... artwork too, not just borders. On the back you can make out "DI" in the lower right (after flipping it horizontally so the text is in the correct direction) and "GLEN" in the top left. I'm fairly certain the back poster is this one from Dishonored with Dietrich: http://www.movieposterdb.com/poster/499c9658 Aside from the trimmed edges, it looks to be in very good shape!
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8426/018qte.jpg) (http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9465/017dnz.jpg)
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such a process as unlayering pasted together paper sheets would leave major damage
when it was done with a panel years ago that had a 1931 Mummy 1sh, I don't think any poster in the layers was more than 50-75% present. that's why the Mummy only sold for $50k
I would normally agree with you Rich, but did you see this poster below? That was one that someone with zero restoration skills pulled out of a middle of one of the stacks after soaking it in the bathtub! It is probably 95% intact. Imagine if a pro took much more time and skill to pull these apart properly? I could easily imagine the posters from the middle of the stacks coming out in surprisingly great shape.
STACK 4: REACHING FOR THE MOON - Again, this was what a poster looks like, if it is intact, from the *middle* of one of these stacks! Sadly, the posters on the back do not look in tact and I couldn't make them out anyway. Is that possibly Claudett Colbert? Unfortunately that poster isn't being revealed under the other layers, but instead those three colorful pieces are all that is left :'(
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9638/019tnt.jpg) (http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4114/020mj.jpg)
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So is it possible this came from the middle of one of the stacks?
http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9017
Considering that the same consignor also has both style one-sheets from Seed, Africa Speaks, Reaching for the Moon, Lady Who Dared and Cimarron I think we can safely say yes.
And I think the newly discovered Cimarron gives us a good indication of what poster was in the middle of the clump that sold for such a high amount.
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Considering that the same consignor also has both style one-sheets from Seed, Africa Speaks, Reaching for the Moon, Lady Who Dared and Cimarron I think we can safely say yes.
And I think the newly discovered Cimarron gives us a good indication of what poster was in the middle of the clump that sold for such a high amount.
the restorers then did an incredible job of separating those posters
I'd love to see a video of that work going on
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Considering that the same consignor also has both style one-sheets from Seed, Africa Speaks, Reaching for the Moon, Lady Who Dared and Cimarron I think we can safely say yes.
And I think the newly discovered Cimarron gives us a good indication of what poster was in the middle of the clump that sold for such a high amount.
Looking forward to Heritage getting the photos up to see what they all look like now (if it turns out they are the same)!
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it took some expert restorer to be able to separate a stack so well. I'd have to think that it may have to do with how much or how little paste was used to adhere each successive poster to the stack. The more paste, the more the posters would be intertwined with glue. However it would seem that they must have used just enough paste to get the new poster on and because glue disintegrates into dust as time goes by, that there must have been "pockets" of the paper that had no real adhesion and once bathed released just simple glued areas easily..
must have been very expensive to have that work done...., but of course, worth every penny
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Just reading through Heritage's description of the posters coming up in March/12.
If these are the same posters, Heritage is really downplaying the amount of restoration that was presumably required...
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it took some expert restorer to be able to separate a stack so well. I'd have to think that it may have to do with how much or how little paste was used to adhere each successive poster to the stack. The more paste, the more the posters would be intertwined with glue. However it would seem that they must have used just enough paste to get the new poster on and because glue disintegrates into dust as time goes by, that there must have been "pockets" of the paper that had no real adhesion and once bathed released just simple glued areas easily..
must have been very expensive to have that work done...., but of course, worth every penny
So Rich, appears you have been persuaded? ;)
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if Sean says they are the same posters, what's to doubt?
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if Sean says they are the same posters, what's to doubt?
What am I? Chopped liver? ;)
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What am I? Chopped liver? ;)
(http://www.comic-art.com/temp/apf/chopped liver.jpg)
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What am I? Chopped liver? ;)
Apparently we both are Matt (judging by the photo) ;)
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(http://www.comic-art.com/temp/apf/chopped liver.jpg)
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http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9022 (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9022) Little Caesar is up
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url[file%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432188.jpg]%2ccontinueonerror[true]&scale=size[450x2000]%2coptions[limit]&source=url[file%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif]%2cif[%28%27global.source.error%27%29]&sink=preservemd[true])
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This is a pretty great one from the find:
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url[file%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432193.jpg]%2ccontinueonerror[true]&scale=size[450x2000]%2coptions[limit]&source=url[file%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif]%2cif[%28%27global.source.error%27%29]&sink=preservemd[true])
Cimarron looks great:
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url[file%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432194.jpg]%2ccontinueonerror[true]&scale=size[450x2000]%2coptions[limit]&source=url[file%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif]%2cif[%28%27global.source.error%27%29]&sink=preservemd[true])
Looks like about 20 posters total so far have been saved from this find.
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Thanks for posting Sean - was waiting for the pics to show up.
Obviously their realism suffers a bit from Heritage's usual high contrast photo rendering but it is still clear whoever performed the restoration was very skilled!
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Obviously their realism suffers a bit from Heritage's usual high contrast photo rendering
I always think exactly that looking at some of Heritage`s images.
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Do you know who ended up buying these Sean? Was it HA directly?
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Do you know who ended up buying these Sean? Was it HA directly?
pcorn
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I wonder why the First National logo is so dark in the "Little Caesar" picture?
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I wonder why the First National logo is so dark in the "Little Caesar" picture?
Looks to be about the same darkness as pictured in the "pre" photo.
I do not believe Heritage was the direct purchaser of these pieces, but I have not spoken to Grey about them.
Doesn't really matter, and I haven't been that curious about the owner - though I wish I had known of the auction so I could have at least made the owner pay a lot more
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though I wish I had known of the auction so I could have at least made the owner pay a lot more
Funny, I wish NO ONE had known about the auction so I could have paid a lot less ;)
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Funny, I wish NO ONE had known about the auction so I could have paid a lot less ;)
Well the chances of that happening are about 0% in today's world.
So if you're not going to be prepared to go all-out for them, it's probably better to team-up with someone who will do just that.
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Of course they also could of ended up with thousands of dollars of paper mush.
These should definitely have before and after restoration pictures made available to the potential buyers.
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Of course they also could of ended up with thousands of dollars of paper mush.
These should definitely have before and after restoration pictures made available to the potential buyers.
Heritage certainly does seem to be "glossing over" the restoration (unless by some miracle these came from the middle of the stack and showed a lot better once being separated)
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Well the chances of that happening are about 0% in today's world.
So if you're not going to be prepared to go all-out for them, it's probably better to team-up with someone who will do just that.
no question.. there is no reason to leave money on the table because you can't afford a good deal.. You find a partner & making half of something is w-a-a-a-a-a-y better than making 100% of nothing
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Heritage certainly does seem to be "glossing over" the restoration (unless by some miracle these came from the middle of the stack and showed a lot better once being separated)
The particular case of this stack is one of those in wich restoration is absolutely necessary, and a good amount of restoration/recreation is to be expected. If I were bidding in one of these posters, I could live with the heavy restoration/recreation because I was able to see the pre restoration pics taken by Mr Caul (thing that would not have happened if I wasn`t an APF member).
Point is, in a perfect world, pre-restoration pics or a VERY detailed description of the work made by the restorer -opposed to highly retouched photos and vague restoration info- should be present when posters like this show up...
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(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432167.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
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Sweet Jehu, could there be a better year than 1931 for a poster stash? I'd like to see a '33 stash, but dayum, there are some sweet posters in this find.
Would have loved to have been at the restorers when these were unpeeled. Better than Holiday Day.
--Peter
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(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432167.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
This poster is NUTS. Just amazing.
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So, I gotta ask - any chance a Dracula or Frankenstein was found and has been cleverly concealed to this point? ;D
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Since these Heritage copies are from "the find," according to Sean and others, does anyone know who they used to do the restoration? I read that they continued to use Jaime Mendez for their restoration work (even after the Haggard fiasco), and was curious if it was he who worked on these, as well.
Kerry L
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(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3304/001waz.jpg) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432188.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
Looks impressive, but the original image, post-find, looks very muted and a bit faded. Compared to the boosted image that Heritage now offers online, would one say that the true color and vibrancy of this poster lies somewhere in between the 2 images? Cleaning and backing alone would not, for example, make the faded yellows of the title pop like they do in the post-restoration image.
clap thumbup
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As you note - Heritage's images are always "boosted" in terms of colouring etc.
Also possible there has been some airbrushing. A good cleaning would enhance the colours a bit but not as much as Heritage would have you believe...
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Sorry Chris, I linked to the wrong photo and now I can't edit it... here is the closest anyone will probably ever come to an original 1931 Maltese Falcon poster. Sniff sniff. :'(
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/416/014fax.jpg)
Harry.. is the above poster for Maltese Falcon, (or what remained) now THIS?? Certainly more than a few chips missing to the image and titles, if this is the restored copy. A beautiful restoration, in any case. :o thumbup
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479741.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
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I think the consensus is that there was a second copy or the pieces were removed from the back of whatever other one it was stuck to (likely the former though)
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Harry.. is the above poster for Maltese Falcon, (or what remained) now THIS?? Certainly more than a few chips missing to the image and titles, if this is the restored copy. A beautiful restoration, in any case. :o thumbup
From HA's description: Restoration has addressed pinholes, some tears and slight chipping in the image area, credits, and left border, and 1-3/4 " and 1" of missing white paper has been replace in the right and top border respectively.
Presumably this is a second copy buried in the middle of one of the stacks.
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Oh for fucks sake... why don't we just get all these out here at once instead of torturing me moron1
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479740.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f3%2f7473417.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479745.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432194.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432167.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479736.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479715.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432193.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479708.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f4%2f7474054.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479741.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479746.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f3%2f7473948.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479714.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432188.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f3%2f7473921.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479735.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f4%2f7474042.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f4%2f7474043.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f3%2f7473952.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479793.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479749.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
I count 23 including The Seas Beneath which is still to be listed. That leaves what? Probably 15 to 25 more? Sigh.
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So where are the Fox titles???
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the theatre that showed these films was obviously a first-run house
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I think the consensus is that there was a second copy or the pieces were removed from the back of whatever other one it was stuck to (likely the former though)
could it have been that the falcon was under the other stuff and what you thought was pieces of the falcon was actually pieces of other posters...
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could it have been that the falcon was under the other stuff and what you thought was pieces of the falcon was actually pieces of other posters...
You might be on to something Charlie - very hard to tell from the pic
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the theatre that showed these films was obviously a first-run house
I know its all speculation, but do you think Dracula would have been shown in such a theater? I think it was one of the first horror films to break out into the mainstream, but did that happen 'before' Dracula was released, or 'during' its release? Meaning maybe it did not get wide distribution until a few weeks/months into its run?
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I know its all speculation, but do you think Dracula would have been shown in such a theater? I think it was one of the first horror films to break out into the mainstream, but did that happen 'before' Dracula was released, or 'during' its release? Meaning maybe it did not get wide distribution until a few weeks/months into its run?
Matt - do we need to put you back on suicide watch? ;)
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Dracula was a mainstream film as were a couple of other horrors before Dracula...
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Matt - do we need to put you back on suicide watch? ;)
No need to Chris, if a Dracula happens to pop up from this find, the heart attack will come first :o
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could it have been that the falcon was under the other stuff and what you thought was pieces of the falcon was actually pieces of other posters...
This is correct.
The Kismet poster is obviously in pieces on top of the Maltese Falcon.
While there is a fair chance the Cimarron alone will cover the entire cost of all the auction lots (not counting restoration) I would say there is an excellent chance that the Public Enemy and Cimarron combined will put the buyer into the profit.
Whomever else was phone bidding on these lots will probably regret not going to the mattresses for these for quite awhile.
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I know its all speculation, but do you think Dracula would have been shown in such a theater? I think it was one of the first horror films to break out into the mainstream, but did that happen 'before' Dracula was released, or 'during' its release? Meaning maybe it did not get wide distribution until a few weeks/months into its run?
Dracula & Frankenstein were definitely first run theatre meat
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No need to Chris, if a Dracula happens to pop up from this find, the heart attack will come first :o
Bingo.
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This is correct.
The Kismet poster is obviously in pieces on top of the Maltese Falcon.
While there is a fair chance the Cimarron alone will cover the entire cost of all the auction lots (not counting restoration) I would say there is an excellent chance that the Public Enemy and Cimarron combined will put the buyer into the profit.
Whomever else was phone bidding on these lots will probably regret not going to the mattresses for these for quite awhile.
Whoever won these lots only spent about $30k on the posters. Assume maybe $400 a pop for restoration on average (x40-50 posters). That puts their investment right around $50k. I'm pretty sure they'll do just fine.
That Public Enemy is hot. Might be my favorite from the lot so far...
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Yeah I agree - the Public Enemy is very cool!
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That Public Enemy is hot. Might be my favorite from the lot so far...
Agree with you on this. Winner for me by a country mile. Shame you didn't manage to snafu them to begin with. *sniff*
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Agree with you on this. Winner for me by a country mile. Shame you didn't manage to snafu them to begin with. *sniff*
Its my own fault. The sellers had no idea what they had. I'm positive that after I (stupidly) asked too many questions and aroused their suspicions... they just did a google search on "movie posters" and called Bruce and Heritage. Bruce said he was on the phone for the auction, but I know there was no way he would have found this obscure auction without being tipped off. And there were only 3-4 bidders total, me, Bruce, probably HA and maybe one other.
Word to the wise for all of you... when you find something this big, pony up and buy a plane ticket. Do it right. I was trying to get too much info from a far and blew it. I bet I would have walked away with the whole stack for a $1,000 had a kept much fucking mouth shut.
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Its my own fault. The sellers had no idea what they had. I'm positive that after I (stupidly) asked too many questions and aroused their suspicions... they just did a google search on "movie posters" and called Bruce and Heritage. Bruce said he was on the phone for the auction, but I know there was no way he would have found this obscure auction without being tipped off. And there were only 3-4 bidders total, me, Bruce, probably HA and maybe one other.
Word to the wise for all of you... when you find something this big, pony up and buy a plane ticket. Do it right. I was trying to get too much info from a far and blew it. I bet I would have walked away with the whole stack for a $1,000 had a kept much fucking mouth shut.
Matt you've had a number of great scores buddy - I think you can rest easy!
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I know, I know... as we've discussed, me torturing myself is all part of the grieving process. Someday I'll laugh at this... unfortunately that day is a long ways off.
But you have to admit, my scores, awesome as they have been, pale in comparison to this mother load!
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I know, I know... as we've discussed, me torturing myself is all part of the grieving process. Someday I'll laugh at this... unfortunately that day is a long ways off.
But you have to admit, my scores, awesome as they have been, pale in comparison to this mother load!
BUT they outstrip by far what many of us plebeians have managed to find...
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Plus all that $$$ would needlessly complicate your life - you might even lose the desire to search out these obscure auctions? ;D
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Then again, speaking of deals... I did recently score a poster from a Nic Cage tax auction!
http://www.abell.com/auctions/single_owner.php
It wasn't billed as a 'Nicolas Cage' auction, but the 'red gun' artwork in the above auction was clearly owned by him (http://www.helnwein.com/kuenstler/update/artikel_645.html). And there was a, no joke, 10' long Ghost Rider steel welded sculpture sold in the auction. You do the math. I surmised that it was a tax auction due to a) his very public tax problems and b) the auctioneer said under the 'special circumstances' of the auction he had no contact with the seller. Anyway, there were a bunch of vintage posters, most of which sold above past eMovie and HA prices. It was a Hollywood auction and I'm sure there were no shortage of people who knew the origin of the items. I'd guess most people were willing to over-pay a bit to say they owned something that used to belong to Nic Cage.
Luckily, the poster I won was a wolf in sheep's clothing. I won a 2001 Star Child 1-sheet... normally a $50-$100 poster. And not surprisingly someone bid me up to $300, probably to say it was Nic Cage's Star Child poster. But I won anyway. Apparently I was the only one bidding that knew it was an uber-rare wilding style poster. Never folded, but it was needlessly mounted on linen. Regardless, 3 bills was a steal for this poster... HA sold 2 and both went north of $3K. Unfortunately it was slightly crunched in shipping, but it insured so UPS covered a de-mounting and new restoration at Poster Mountain.
http://www.postermountain.com/form/posters/formatted/8374
Sorry for the off-topic celebration (yay), but I had to comfort myself somehow.
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(http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/cheerleader.gif)
Go Harry
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Guess that's what I get for trying to comfort you - bastard.
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50 more deals like that and this 1931 stash will be a thing of the past! :P
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http://www.postermountain.com/form/posters/formatted/8374
Anybody else just like changing the numbers to see what else has been backed?
Like why back this one?
http://www.postermountain.com/form/posters/formatted/8365
Then I found this..
http://www.postermountain.com/form/posters/index/page:18/sort:created/direction:desc
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No doubt some amazing things have passed through their hands...
Just recently original Struzen art for The Thing (http://www.postermountain.com/form/posters/formatted/8442) and Creature From the Black Lagoon (http://www.postermountain.com/form/posters/formatted/8441).
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I don't think that 'before' Millie is the one they restored BTW...
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I don't think that 'before' Millie is the one they restored BTW...
Yeah, you're right about the Millie. I added Heritage's descriptions of the restorations to the pics. The others match up with the description.
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I added Heritage's descriptions of the restorations to the pics.
Wow, talk about being generous with their descriptions!
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Wow, talk about being generous with their descriptions!
Yep. And as we've noted - the photos they post are highly unrealistic.
Talk about photoshop!
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who cares about posters.. my recent biggest find was dropped off at the warehouse today
2 more flat files with 29x43 inch drawers for $50 each
I love Craigslist
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who cares about posters.. my recent biggest find was dropped off at the warehouse today
2 more flat files with 29x43 inch drawers for $50 each
I love Craigslist
Nice score Rich.
Seems big enough to store some tears in?
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I've found a bunch of flats files on Craigslist
the cheapest buy was a 25x37 in nearly new condition for a mere $15
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who cares about posters.. my recent biggest find was dropped off at the warehouse today
2 more flat files with 29x43 inch drawers for $50 each
I love Craigslist
So $50 is a good price for a set of five drawers? I guess I wasn't getting screwed...
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So $50 is a good price for a set of five drawers? I guess I wasn't getting screwed...
I'd say so!
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So $50 is a good price for a set of five drawers? I guess I wasn't getting screwed...
$50 is a great price for flat files of any size
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$50 is a great price for flat files of any size
Damn, I could have gotten 12 of them at $50 each... Problem is I kind of killed the deal and have to keep my pride now... Maybe he'll come back at $40... ;D
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Damn, I could have gotten 12 of them at $50 each... Problem is I kind of killed the deal and have to keep my pride now... Maybe he'll come back at $40... ;D
I'd buy them and sell the overflow on Craigslist at $75-$150 each Charlie (depending on size)
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I'd buy them and sell the overflow on Craigslist at $75-$150 each Charlie (depending on size)
Shit. So the whole story...
They were from my firm and there was a lot of miscommunication and it was just a mess. I dropped it all because I didn't want any conflicts of interest to develop... Originally he was going to scrap them. So I figured up scrap value and made and offer. Now I was buying flat files from the owner of the firm; he then is trying to figure out what to sell them to me for as flat files; he puts an ad on craigslist to solicit offers (didn't tell me this; I found the ad); his assistant was telling me he agreed to one price ($25 each); I got all excited lined up some help for 8 sets and then the next day he comes in and doubles it - again through the assistant. I was in meetings all day and never talked to him face to face and was like WTF, nickel and dime me over stuff you were going to originally scrap... I see that depreciated office equipment is just so hard to part with; guess employee retention is not a goal. I mean he could have sold them to me for the first price and then every time I walked into my poster lair I would think "how cool is the owner of my firm". He even made me explain what I wanted them for... Acted like he thought I wanted to make money off of them...
I probably would have thought the same thing; what the hell are you going to do with 40 drawers of flat files? He was cool about it and was giving me a break on what he was offered, but it just kept getting fuzzy. Like a methodical process for getting rid of depreciated office equipment to a decent employee. I've made that man hundreds of thousands of dollars and he wants to make sure he's getting his $600...
Now I just figure, no matter if I bought them or not, every time I looked at them I would get pissed. So I said the hell with it. Still pissed though...w/o flat files. But since I told him it was best to stop negotiations, I can't go back now...
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So I figured up scrap value and made and offer.
Charlie, you know you're my pal, so I want you to take this correctly:
that is donkulous idiocy
just give the guy his $600
if the cabinets are in nice condition, what's the beef?
so what he wants $50 each.. do you realize how much these damn things cost at retail??
if I was offered 12 cabinets at $50 each, I'd be on them like white on rice
maybe he'll take a round $500.
what you have made for him in the past you were paid for, right??
this is now, not yesterday
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Charlie, you know you're my pal, so I want you to take this correctly:
that is donkulous idiocy
just give the guy his $600
if the cabinets are in nice condition, what's the beef?
so what he wants $50 each.. do you realize how much these damn things cost at retail??
if I was offered 12 cabinets at $50 each, I'd be on them like white on rice
maybe he'll take a round $500.
what you have made for him in the past you were paid for, right??
this is now, not yesterday
You may be on to something. He sold two. I'll make him an offer of $400 for the rest (10) take the other two I don't need sell them for $100 each and I'll be at my $200 original offer... What will he know... Now I will just have to get past my wife and her pride...
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I can't believe you would offer him $200 for 12 cabinets.. are you cheap or something?? woohoo
BTW.. what size are they??
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I can't believe you would offer him $200 for 12 cabinets.. are you cheap or something?? woohoo
BTW.. what size are they??
There are were 8 sets of 43 inch and 4 sets of ~42 inch drawers. Not cheap; the original story was he was going to throw them out. So I figured if he was going to scrap them, why not give him what he would get for scrap. 800 lbs at $.149/lb is $120 each. I think the assistant was the one that fucked it all up. It's not the money part that bothers me. It's the stuff in between in my over analysis of the meanings behind the methodical way he went about it... I am a pretty complex guy I guess...and young.
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are you cheap or something?? woohoo
You know you are a poster junkie when? Rich?
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So now I need a way back in. I think I should go directly through him, forget the assistant. Maybe the old everything was cloudy so I wanted to step back and reassess... Or just go in and say I reconsidered and I'll take them?
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You know you are a poster junkie when? Rich?
LOL..
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Looks like a Dracula was in the mix...
"One of the most popular genres in the poster collecting world is the field of Universal horror," Smith said, "and I'm pleased to say that the Berwick discovery includes a stunning example of one of the most desirable posters in that category. It's the Style F one sheet for Dracula, the film that launched the Universal horror boom in 1931, and set Bela Lugosi on a path to film immortality. One of only a small handful known to exist, we sold another copy of this style in March, 2009. That poster realized more than $310,000, making it one of the most valuable posters we've sold in a decade of operation. Who knows what this copy will bring?"
Forgot to post the full link to the newsletter...
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/newsletter.php?id=3640&type=posternews-tem012612 (http://movieposters.ha.com/common/newsletter.php?id=3640&type=posternews-tem012612)
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Well, Matt's gonna die now... :(
Was good to know you man!
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Well, Matt's gonna die now... :(
Was good to know you man!
It's a fugly poster anyway...
No??? Yeah, didn't think anyone would buy it...sorry Matt.
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Man, my heart is in my stomach for you Matt, after reading that. But we could be sitting here talking about how the adhesive was destructive to the posters and none could be salvaged.
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DRACULA? Style F? Sheeeeet, I got one of those...well, a full-size Universal reprint, anyhows....
Actually my favorite design for the film...
(http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu12/brude2000/MISCELLANEOUS%20POSTERS/dracula.jpg)
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Looks like a Dracula was in the mix...
"One of the most popular genres in the poster collecting world is the field of Universal horror," Smith said, "and I'm pleased to say that the Berwick discovery includes a stunning example of one of the most desirable posters in that category. It's the Style F one sheet for Dracula, the film that launched the Universal horror boom in 1931, and set Bela Lugosi on a path to film immortality. One of only a small handful known to exist, we sold another copy of this style in March, 2009. That poster realized more than $310,000, making it one of the most valuable posters we've sold in a decade of operation. Who knows what this copy will bring?"
Forgot to post the full link to the newsletter...
http://movieposters.ha.com/common/newsletter.php?id=3640&type=posternews-tem012612 (http://movieposters.ha.com/common/newsletter.php?id=3640&type=posternews-tem012612)
My spider sense proved right!
Now when will there be disclosure that a Frankenstein poster was in the lot too?
Man - to whoever gambled on this ----> >:(
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"Separating the posters was like removing wallpaper," Smith said. "After carefully moistening the top layer, steam was used to melt the glue and gently remove one poster from another. Each new layer that came up revealed new and exciting treasures beyond anyone's wildest expectations."
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See...fugly :(
DRACULA? Style F? Sheeeeet, I got one of those...well, a full-size Universal reprint, anyhows....
Actually my favorite design for the film...
(http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu12/brude2000/MISCELLANEOUS%20POSTERS/dracula.jpg)
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Wrong style there Brude - you posted the style A.
F is the one with Dracula in the boat.
Guess we know why the one lot went for over $16,000 now - will definitely prove to be a good investment.
Unfortunately, Frankenstein was released in December '31, so it will be outside the time period of this find.
Interesting that this find came out of Pennsylvania though - where the last three copies of Frankenstein (and Bride of Frankenstein) were found.
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Interesting that this find came out of Pennsylvania though - where the last three copies of Frankenstein (and Bride of Frankenstein) were found.
That's an interesting coincidence.
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_a9V8a7WTTz0/TMGHZJEXC_I/AAAAAAAABcE/B2-JfYVFtn0/s1600/dracula_movie_poster.jpg)
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Honestly, I've always liked the style F - it's like a naive comic-style poster
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The most common style Dracula one-sheet just got it's known population upped by 33%.
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The most common style Dracula one-sheet just got it's known population upped by 33%.
I thought only 2 copies were known to exist
ergo, wouldn't that be upped by 50% ??
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3 prior copies sir.
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Guess we could use him right about now?
(http://educationalsongsforkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Count-Sesame-Street.jpg)
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Guess we could use him right about now?
(http://educationalsongsforkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Count-Sesame-Street.jpg)
Made me spit out some coffee as I chuckled...too funny!
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I'm curious what "stunning example" means. Stunning artistry or stunning condition?
This is the "VF" one that sold for $310,000: (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7003&lotNo=86503)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Dracula.jpg)
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Made me spit out some coffee as I chuckled...too funny!
You can send me the coffee bill Ves ;)
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3 prior copies sir.
i demand a recount
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Mel, I think "stunning" applies on many levels - stunning where and how it was found, stunning that it could be rescued from the stack, stunning that in 2011 another Dracula one sheet materialized miraculously and perhaps most of all - the stunning profit the buyer(s) is/are going to make!
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Mel, I think "stunning" applies on many levels - stunning where and how it was found, stunning that it could be rescued from the stack, stunning that in 2011 another Dracula one sheet materialized miraculously and perhaps most of all - the stunning profit the buyer(s) is/are going to make!
I'm stunned
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The other styles:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf-3.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf-1-2.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf-1copy2.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf-1copy.jpg)
Have the three sheets ever been found?
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I like all of them :P
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I don't think I've ever seen the Style C before...A and B definitely - (even a fake style B at Profiles eyeroll )
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One style C known. No known copies of either 3-sheet (earliest Dracula 3-sheet known is from the 1947 release).
There is a 6-sheet rumored to exist, but no confirmation and a few leads have lead to dead ends so far.
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Style C a close second to the 24 Sheet for me.
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Style C a close second to the 24 Sheet for me.
i would take anyone (If I could just get Sean's leads...) ;)
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Style C a close second to the 24 Sheet for me.
Interesting how in the Style C the young maiden looks uncannily like Dracula's Daughter!
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the style C is used as the jacket art on the Photoplay edition
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Still no Fox.
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Wrong style there Brude - you posted the style A.
F is the one with Dracula in the boat.
Damn...what was I thinking?
Thanks for the reality check, Sean.
cheers
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Fucking hell I just saw this.
La la la laaaaaa... Find your happy place Matt... Find your happy place....
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Fucking hell I just saw this.
La la la laaaaaa... Find your happy place Matt... Find your happy place....
laugh1
It is still very cool how you did find this. Far ahead of the curve.
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laugh1
It is still very cool how you did find this. Far ahead of the curve.
And for that, we applause you clap clap clap clap clap
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I know just how you feel Matt, I had a very similar deal I missed out on many years back. I still kick myself for not getting a bank loan out.... :-\
And don't worry the Pain never goes, even 15 years later...... ;)
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I know just how you feel Matt, I had a very similar deal I missed out on many years back. I still kick myself for not getting a bank loan out.... :-\
And don't worry the Pain never goes, even 15 years later...... ;)
I guess he'll need a stronger favourite drink!
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And don't worry the Pain never goes, even 15 years later...
Ain't that the truth. There are still a couple of single posters (not stashes) that got away that bring physical pain every time I remember them. Stoopidstoopidstoopid!
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My spider sense proved right!
I also included this possibility in my very first post...
Anyway, so there you have it. I'm sure after a restoration delay, 30-50 newly discovered one sheets from early 1931 will be probably be coming to auction soon. Only about a dozen of which do we know the titles for. And for those of you keeping track of dates, Dracula was released dead in the middle of the range covered by these posters, in February 1931 ;D If a previously unknown one-sheet turns up at auction soon, you'll know where it came from!
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I also included this possibility in my very first post...
No reason why there can't be two incredibly intelligent and perceptive Spidermen ;)
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this deal is a perfect example of why when there is something special that could be very worthwhile, but beyond your financial reach or geographical location, that you should seek out a dealer who you can share & partner with.
amazingly, it is obvious that this one deal could make potential profits up to $300-500K for the buyers
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this deal is a perfect example of why when there is something special that could be very worthwhile, but beyond your financial reach or geographical location, that you should seek out a dealer who you can share & partner with.
amazingly, it is obvious that this one deal could make potential profits up to $300-500K for the buyers
You have an amazingly quick take on Biz Rich..I`m glad I could read it here first 8)
Stew
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Well, Sean said as much a few pages back in this thread. The thing is, I was prepared to bid competitively on what was visible... but I wasn't prepared to gamble on what might or might not be underneath.
Hindsight is 20-20 for all you backseat buyers... but you have to remember that even Bruce was on the phone and he bowed out before I did. It was gambling pure and simple, and HA (presumably they were bidding directly) won big because I couldn't keep my mouth shut. I'm mostly pissed because I more or less invited the competition. Had I not asked so many questions to the seller I would have probably been bidding against only locals in the room -- which I'm assuming I would have won at that point.
But who knows...
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Harry, in a world when a simple web search helps you find the major sellers of anything, I wouldn't think that you asking question made them go look for other dealers. But I would say if you were willing to bid competitively, you should have gone to the posters to examine them and then realized what the true course of action should have been. Or at least that's what I would have done
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Harry, in a world when a simple web search helps you find the major sellers of anything, I wouldn't think that you asking question made them go look for other dealers. But I would say if you were willing to bid competitively, you should have gone to the posters to examine them and then realized what the true course of action should have been. Or at least that's what I would have done
Good points here. All hindsight. Kinda wish Matt got this haul, would have been so pumped to see an APFer hit the jackpot like this.
That said, this thread is an agonizing read. I try to stay away as much as possible, can't imagine how Matt Caul must be feeling. Hang in there, buddy.
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Good points here. All hindsight. Kinda wish Matt got this haul, would have been so pumped to see an APFer hit the jackpot like this.
That said, this thread is an agonizing read. I try to stay away as much as possible, can't imagine how Matt Caul must be feeling. Hang in there, buddy.
if he's feeling bad, the only advice is to let it go.
I've been working on a very sweet deal that essentially fell apart this week because of issues I won't discuss here.
cie la vie
on to the next one
I'm not crying over spilt milk. I have paper towels that pick it up & a mop that washes the floor clean
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would have been so pumped to see an APFer hit the jackpot like this.
me too.. why couldn't it have been me??
wynk
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me too.. why couldn't it have been me??
wynk
Maybe because you have a goddamn complete warehouse? ;)
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Maybe because you have a goddamn complete warehouse? ;)
it's not complete.. I needed that deal to make it "almost" complete
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If there's another find like this in the near future, I'm sure Harry will be in on it.
Keep at it, Matt!
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it's not complete.. I needed that deal to make it "almost" complete
i thought you had it complete with all those Chandlers and gambling ones...
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i thought you had it complete with all those Chandlers and gambling ones...
never complete.. always just close
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I'd say both Nostradumus and Bruce predicted this:
Nostradumus, Century IX, Quatrain 108:
When the moon completes her great cycle,
The lost thing is discovered,
Divine splendor hidden for many decades,
The accumulators shall give great opposition to possess it....
A History of Movie Posters (http://www.reelclassics.com/Articles/General/posters-article.htm)
Other than the huge finds (which probably account for 90% of the pre-1938 posters known), posters also are sometimes found in one other main way. In the 1910s and 1920s (and to a lesser extent in the 1930s), builders would often look for material to put within the walls of buildings (or under the floors) to serve as insulation. Some enterprising builders hooked up with poster exchanges to take large amounts of outdated posters and put them in the walls of their new homes. I know of at least ten occasions where someone has been remodeling their house in the 1990s and discovered posters in the walls or under the floor. Sometimes they are moldy and mildewed and require large amounts of restoration, but sometimes they are so tightly pressed together that they survive in relatively excellent condition.
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"sometimes they are so tightly pressed together that they survive in relatively excellent condition"
This referred to window cards or kraftbacked posters. I have NEVER seen posters glued one on top of each other that survive in relatively excellent condition, and I greatly doubt I ever will.
Bruce
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So Bruce... do you mind confirming whether or not the auctioneers called you directly to alert you to the sale? If so, how long before the sale did they call? A week? Two weeks?
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So it's up! Heritage just posted a pic of the new Dracula Style F. (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9034) No condition info posted. Here's the new one (left) vs. the one sold previously (right). Appears to be more colorful - restoration effect or what?
(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE/Compare2.jpg)
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So it's up! Heritage just posted a pic of the new Dracula Style F. (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9034) No condition info posted. Here's the new one (left) vs. the one sold previously (right). Appears to be more colorful - restoration effect or what?
i thought they would put it out for March.......!
wynk
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STILL no Fox.
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Appears to be more colorful - restoration effect or what?
I think it's called Photoshop... :D
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I think it's called Photoshop... :D
Of course it's not Photoshop. Heritage is not going to sell a $300,000+ poster using a blatantly photoshopped picture. Some people say Heritage "enhances" its photos and "overgrades" its posters for sale but somehow they can't be bothered to offer any proof. I've bought over 100 posters from Heritage and they all showed up looking exactly like they did online and more or less properly graded.
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Cool poster.
Didn't someone earlier mention that the colors on all of these posters appear to be 'over saturated?'
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On the posters I have from the 30's the colours look more like the one on the left. They are very vibrant, as was the way in those days. The poster on the right has faded slightly over the years, looking at it.
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Of course it's not Photoshop. Heritage is not going to sell a $300,000+ poster using a blatantly photoshopped picture. Some people say Heritage "enhances" its photos and "overgrades" its posters for sale but somehow they can't be bothered to offer any proof. I've bought over 100 posters from Heritage and they all showed up looking exactly like they did online and more or less properly graded.
Mel, I'm aware that a multi-million dollar auction house like Heritage is not going to sell a Dracula using a blatantly photoshopped pic like if they were a shady ebay seller. I do think their photos are overly "enhanced". Posters from the 30s and 40s with bright and vibrant colors exist, and those colors can even be improved with proper restoration, but not to the point of making them look like they were printed in day-glo ink...
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i thought they would put it out for March.......!
wynk
Guess I was wrong!
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Of course it's not Photoshop. Heritage is not going to sell a $300,000+ poster using a blatantly photoshopped picture. Some people say Heritage "enhances" its photos and "overgrades" its posters for sale but somehow they can't be bothered to offer any proof. I've bought over 100 posters from Heritage and they all showed up looking exactly like they did online and more or less properly graded.
Are you kidding me Mel? - anyone looking at that Dracula poster can tell those ARE NOT the actual colours! Almost all Heritage photos are way oversaturated to enhance their "browsing/eye-catching appeal"
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Of course it's not Photoshop. Heritage is not going to sell a $300,000+ poster using a blatantly photoshopped picture. Some people say Heritage "enhances" its photos and "overgrades" its posters for sale but somehow they can't be bothered to offer any proof. I've bought over 100 posters from Heritage and they all showed up looking exactly like they did online and more or less properly graded.
I bought a 6sht for $4k from them, stated condition as NM. My restorer looked at it and saw a hand sized area completely in painted.
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Are you kidding me Mel? - anyone looking at that Dracula poster can tell those ARE NOT the actual colours! Almost all Heritage photos are way oversaturated to enhance their "browsing/eye-catching appeal"
Show, don't tell, Chris. Post a picture of a poster purchased from Heritage and then post a picture of the actual poster when it arrived. Since "almost all Heritage photos are way oversaturated" - according to you - I'm sure you'll have no problem proving it.
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By the way, here's the original Heritage picture of my Undead poster (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=161146&lotNo=51526#Photo). The picture was not Photoshopped, saturated, etc. in any way.
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf-4.jpg)
The Heritage picture EXACTLY matched what showed up:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/PC030003.jpg)
This next picture is a Photoshopped version of the original Heritage picture - color cast removed, light levels adjusted, saturation turned up:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf2.jpg)
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I've seen two videos where two different linen backers mentioned that restoring does makes the colors, in their words, more "vibrant." All of the stuff I've had linen backed had brighter, better looking (IMO) colors after being restored/backed.
The two Dracula one sheets pictured may look different due to lighting and restoration. The one on the right looks like it was in a much brighter/different light, and it may also have a lower resolution (especially since its an older picture), all of which would cause the colors to be lighter. The apparent "better" lighting combined with the restoration on the one on the left could explain why it looks a lot "better."
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It's possible they're using a stock photo but I doubt it because it's watermarked.
My bet is that overall the poster was substantially restored and the restorer repainted the entire red portion of the lettering to give it color consistency.
However, the charge that Heritage systematically enhances/saturates/distorts its images is totally unfounded.
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Show, don't tell, Chris. Post a picture of a poster purchased from Heritage and then post a picture of the actual poster when it arrived. Since "almost all Heritage photos are way oversaturated" - according to you - I'm sure you'll have no problem proving it.
I don't need to post examples - the photos speak for themselves to most
But I will play the game:
Original Heritage Photo
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr156/Assgoblin/lf-2.jpg)
The same poster in reality
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr156/Assgoblin/IMG_2987.jpg)
So what happened to the reds, the blues and Bacall's hair?
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That is most definitely the type of lighting used....
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That is most definitely the type of lighting used....
and the type of camera
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and the type of camera
And the colours being enhanced ;)
Just to be clear Mel - I am not talking about disguising restoration etc just the colours being overly saturated and unrealistic.
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A lot of the color correction happens when you change the white balance. From Chris's pic, you can clearly see that the paper has yellowed. Whether or not it is as bad as his camera/lighting shows I'm sure is up for debate. However, you can also tell plain as day that Heritage adjusted the white balance using the background as 'white'. Their pic doesn't show any yellow-ing what so ever. 'Correcting' the WB removes the yellow-ish color cast from the whole poster, including the rest of the colors -- and hence makes them a bit more vibrant and seemingly more saturated, even if they didn't actually bump up saturation.
To do it properly you need a true white card that you photograph in the same frame as the poster, then correct WB in post using that known quantity. Some places actually do a full color profile (MPGrading) using a color charts at the side of the poster. However, that seems complicated so I'm not going to bother when I get my photo setup back up and running. Properly adjusting WB I've found is a must though...
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By the way, here's the original Heritage picture of my Undead poster (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=161146&lotNo=51526#Photo). The picture was not Photoshopped, saturated, etc. in any way.
This next picture is a Photoshopped version of the original Heritage picture - color cast removed, light levels adjusted, saturation turned up:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf2.jpg)
I took the above "boosted" image which still looked cloudy and a bit washed out, IMO, and played with it a bit more ;D:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6825447897_8fb0d61e21_b.jpg)
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And the previously sold DRAC, also given some added "boostage":
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6825566587_294595d876_b.jpg) (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6825538169_19fd6f4560_b.jpg)
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The most common style Dracula one-sheet just got it's known population upped by 33%.
Sean, are there any numbers out there for how many of the Dracula, Style H one sheet, still exist?
(http://static.zoovy.com/img/redford/W580-H841-Bffffff/4/428238_1020_a.jpg)
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(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3304/001waz.jpg) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f3%2f2%2f7432188.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
Looks impressive, but the original image, post-find, looks very muted and a bit faded. Compared to the boosted image that Heritage now offers online, would one say that the true color and vibrancy of this poster lies somewhere in between the 2 images? Cleaning and backing alone would not, for example, make the faded yellows of the title pop like they do in the post-restoration image.
clap thumbup
As far as poster images being over-saturated and the colors boosted, here is a comparative I presented in mid-January. The poster, when found, appeared faded and dull. The yellows of the title alone were very washed out. (camera and lighting considered). Now, unless, during restoration, the entire poster was heavily inpainted, and touched up to make it pop, then the only other explanation is added saturation to the image, after it was backed and restored.
If it was done for Little Caesar, it most certainly could have been done to the Dracula image, too.
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Now, unless, during restoration, the entire poster was heavily inpainted, and touched up to make it pop, then the only other explanation is added saturation to the image, after it was backed and restored.
this is incorrect.. It is only one possibility. Other possibilities are that once washed, the dirt on the surface is lifted & the true colors below are released, or the type of light being used (tungsten, neon, incandescent etc) in photogrpahy favor color saturation at different levels, the CMOS element in the high definition camera being used is more sensitive to true colors etc etc etc. There are many reasons that the colors could be brilliant with the one about being cleaned removing a haze from the image being the most obvious.
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this is incorrect.. It is only one possibility. Other possibilities are that once washed, the dirt on the surface is lifted & the true colors below are released, or the type of light being used (tungsten, neon, incandescent etc) in photogrpahy favor color saturation at different levels, the CMOS element in the high definition camera being used is more sensitive to true colors etc etc etc. There are many reasons that the colors could be brilliant with the one about being cleaned removing a haze from the image being the most obvious.
True. I should not have used the phrase "the only other explanation" as other factors can come into play. I do realize that the "find" photo is not lit properly, is shot at and angle and that the imagery is less than stellar. However, what can also be seen are watermarks and some light staining throughout the poster and on much of the title (and yes, washing can do wonders in this area). And while various types of light sources can accentuate or detract from a color's brilliance, it is still apparently evident, that the overall poster was more faded, when first uncovered.
All the factors being considered and those you mentioned, Rich, I still do believe that the finished image was boosted (as have been done to the other in varying degrees). The Little Caesar poster, as presented, now looks better than it probably did when first printed. Only Heritage can absolutely verify or quash this, however. Not one member here knows for certain. And up to this point, Heritage has not replied to these thread observations.
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Kerry, I can tell you from personal experience that once washed, the colors of a poster burst forth from the paper. A claim such as "The Little Caesar poster, as presented, now looks better than it probably did when first printed" cannot be proven in any possible way. Also, the paper itself whitens in the cleaning process, brightening the colors further
Don't forget that these posters were essentially "preserved" away from light as each successive poster was applied to the board and so the original saturation levels of the dyes in the ink most probably retained their original pigmentation within the layers and so once washed and brought forth from the dirty layers above show their original brilliance. I also don't think it's necessary for Heritage to comment (if they commented to every sewing circle with a criticism it would reduce their time to do the important work of selling posters), but rather for those who are critical to actually go forth to examine the posters themselves as they are the ones that are curious. Then you can actually say "I visited the poster and this is what I noted......." as opposed to putting forth conjecture as fact.
that said, it is obvious these posters all have some degree of restoration. Part of the restoration process is restoring the colors and certain dyes reflect light differently in photography, appearing brighter. This could yet be another factor in how you see the color.
one more issue: color calibration
Harry noted that a photographer uses a color bar to match pure white under white so as to get the most natural colors. However, the photographer also calibrates his computer monitor to make sure that he sees is as close as possible to what the camera sees. I want to know how many (if any at all) members on this forum have ever calibrated their monitors to this degree?? No need to answer.. it's probably less than 1%
oh and one more thing. Heritage is a corporate entity with may departments under autonomous control on different floors of a huge building. The photographers are not under movie poster control - they are under photography department control. They have certain learnings that have nothing to do with the interests of collectors wanting to see each nook and cranny of wear in a poster. The photographer's job is to make the item being sold look as good as possible with the realm of looking correct. His visual interests are not the same as your visual interests. There is nothing nefarious about it. The photographer is doing the job they were taught to do.
Understanding these facts in concert with each other is the only way you can even make educated guesses about why the images look as they do
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There you have the answer to how best to store your collection. Just glue all your posters on top of each other in one large stack. Not only does this preserve them perfectly, but the colors will improve over the years.
Bruce
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There you have the answer to how best to store your collection. Just glue all your posters on top of each other in one large stack. Not only does this preserve them perfectly, but the colors will improve over the years.
Bruce
Just magical!
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There you have the answer to how best to store your collection. Just glue all your posters on top of each other in one large stack. Not only does this preserve them perfectly, but the colors will improve over the years.
Bruce
Just magical!
laugh1
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Sean, are there any numbers out there for how many of the Dracula, Style H one sheet, still exist?
(http://static.zoovy.com/img/redford/W580-H841-Bffffff/4/428238_1020_a.jpg)
Erik - isn't this from the '38 re-release?
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There you have the answer to how best to store your collection. Just glue all your posters on top of each other in one large stack. Not only does this preserve them perfectly, but the colors will improve over the years.
Bruce
I've been working on this for half my life.. I'm just not sure that I've been using the right glue
I guess I'll find out in 53 more years
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Erik - isn't this from the '38 re-release?
That is what Heritage sold it as... and I believe that is the only known copy.
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That is what Heritage sold it as... and I believe that is the only known copy.
That is indeed the 38 one-sheet. (there is no 1931 style H, in the pressbook style H refers to the window card that looks similar to the 6-sheet)
What is really interesting (to me at least) is that just over 20 years ago there was just one Dracula 1931 one-sheet known (the style B belonging to Ron Borst). Then in the early 90s a style A was found which was privately sold, and another style B which was sold through Morrie Everett's Hollywood Poster Auction. A few more years went buy and 3 copies of the style F all turned up at the same time (with Bruce getting one and the other two being sold privately to collectors - I believe Bruce saw the ad for the 3 of them first). Then the style C turned up and all was quiet for 10 years or so (the copy Heritage sold previously is the same copy Bruce sold over a decade ago) and now another style F is found.
The only known 1938 one-sheet turned up in 2003 (along with previously unknown copies of one-sheets for the first three Frankenstein films).
There are now more original one-sheets available than at any time in the 60s, 70s, or 80s (I guess technically the second style B which was sold in 93 was available in the 70s as the owner of it told me at the auction he had bought it at a flea market for $1 in the early 70s and never knew it was worth anything until news of the style A being discovered made headlines in collecting circles). The style F, which was not even known to exist 15 years ago is now the most common style.
Makes you wonder what the next find will contain...
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Makes you wonder what the next find will contain...
I'll make sure y'all here at APF are the first to know ;)
Great write-up Sean!
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I'll make sure y'all here at APF are the first to know ;)
:D
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I'll make sure y'all here at APF are the first to know ;)
:)
Many are counting on you.
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That is indeed the 38 one-sheet. (there is no 1931 style H, in the pressbook style H refers to the window card that looks similar to the 6-sheet)
What is really interesting (to me at least) is that just over 20 years ago there was just one Dracula 1931 one-sheet known (the style B belonging to Ron Borst). Then in the early 90s a style A was found which was privately sold, and another style B which was sold through Morrie Everett's Hollywood Poster Auction. A few more years went buy and 3 copies of the style F all turned up at the same time (with Bruce getting one and the other two being sold privately to collectors - I believe Bruce saw the ad for the 3 of them first). Then the style C turned up and all was quiet for 10 years or so (the copy Heritage sold previously is the same copy Bruce sold over a decade ago) and now another style F is found.
The only known 1938 one-sheet turned up in 2003 (along with previously unknown copies of one-sheets for the first three Frankenstein films).
There are now more original one-sheets available than at any time in the 60s, 70s, or 80s (I guess technically the second style B which was sold in 93 was available in the 70s as the owner of it told me at the auction he had bought it at a flea market for $1 in the early 70s and never knew it was worth anything until news of the style A being discovered made headlines in collecting circles). The style F, which was not even known to exist 15 years ago is now the most common style.
Makes you wonder what the next find will contain...
I really savor these kind of poster history details.
Thanks, Sean.
cheers
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I don't need to post examples - the photos speak for themselves to most
But I will play the game:
Original Heritage Photo
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr156/Assgoblin/lf-2.jpg)
Chris, your picture is the problem here. The light levels in your picture are WAY off, as shown in my screenshots below.
It is absolutely appropriate to adjust the light levels and does not "distort" the photo in any way. I ALWAYS correct the light levels of my photos using the ENHANCE: ADJUST LIGHTING: LEVELS command.
When your photo is light corrected, I do not see any material differences between the Heritage original and your picture.
Your picture showing the uncorrected light levels:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/1.png)
Your picture with light levels corrected:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/2.png)
A screenshot of the Help explanation of light levels:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/3.png)
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Mel, the problem with your analysis is that after you enhance light levels you can still see yellowing of the paper in Chris' photo. There are clear differences between the more white areas (like the upper center and the to the left of the bottom of the 'B' in Bogart) and the yellowed paper -- I'm guessing those are probably restoration areas.
HA's photo shows none of that nuance on my monitor, or if it does it is extremely faint.
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Ok, here's the deal.
The original with description is here (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=665&lotNo=28891):
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Screenshot2012-02-06at80249PM.png)
Large size (1000 pixels) Heritage original photo (as posted online with no changes):
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Original.jpg)
The below picture shows how the picture could have been "distorted" but was not: (1) color cast removed (this changes the acid-tanning to pure white) and (2) colors saturated 10%.
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Fixed.jpg)
And in the end, if Chris felt so ripped off, why didn't he just return it?
Finally, that's a hell of a poster - it's way better than the much-more-expensive US version!
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Mel - believe me, I have NEVER felt ripped off about this poster (and to be clear I didn't even buy it from Heritage but I knew that's where it came from). You are right that the colours are much better than the US one sheet.
I think Matt is completely right about the slight yellowing - Heritage's photo is clearly whitewashed. But the main difference is the enhanced colour of Bacall's hair (which should be readily noticeable to all).
Again - in no way unhappy with the poster (it is displayed prominently right in front of my computer as I type). Just using it is illustrate the point that I (and others) are trying to make...
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So it turns out all the Heritage trash-talking was nonsense. "The colors on the poster are as vibrant as the day it was printed and have not been altered at all."
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Drac.jpg)
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So it turns out all the Heritage trash-talking was nonsense. "The colors on the poster are as vibrant as the day it was printed and have not been altered at all."
Well Mel, it's more personal opinions than "trash-talk". Some great info on the effects of restoration, white balance, lightning, etc... was given in this thread - and is very appreciated- by yourself, Matt, Rich and the others.
Even with this info, my uncalibrated monitor and my color blindness (:D) I still think Heritage's images are way too boosted... I guess I'll clear my doubts when I purchase a poster from them and can be able to look at it personally...
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Well Mel, it's more personal opinions than "trash-talk". Some great info on the effects of restoration, white balance, lightning, etc... was given in this thread - and is very appreciated- by yourself, Matt, Rich and the others.
Even with this info, my uncalibrated monitor and my color blindness (:D) I still think Heritage's images are way too boosted... I guess I'll clear my doubts when I purchase a poster from them and can be able to look at it personally...
Agree Matias - just because Heritage says the actual poster has not been touched (airbrushed etc) doesn't mean the photo is a realistic representation of what the poster looks like in reality.
And this is not just the Dracula poster of course...
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Boosted colors or not, I'd chug a bucket of shark chum for that DRACULA poster.
Mmmmm....mmmmmm...
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Boosted colors or not, I'd chug a bucket of shark chum for that DRACULA poster.
Mmmmm....mmmmmm...
Shark chum... yummmm
(http://www.comic-art.com/temp/apf/chum.jpg)
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Every time this thread pops up on the "unread since your last visit" list I get sick to my stomach.
The shark chum is not helping...
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chum is deligious.. just ask any shark
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chum is deligious.. just ask any shark
Heck yeah...if you look close enough there's noodles and marshmallows....
Small price to pay for DRAC, eh?
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Been there done that... that is our chum bucket. The fish head was tied to the float next to it. It was like bobber-fishing only for great whites with a thick rope and 20 lb. piece of bait!
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/484/24boatlife.jpg)
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Been there done that... that is our chum bucket. The fish head was tied to the float next to it. It was like bobber-fishing only for great whites with a thick rope and 20 lb. piece of bait!
(http://bobleponge.fr/lieux/chum-bucket03.jpg)
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And the previously sold DRAC, also given some added "boostage":
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6825566587_294595d876_b.jpg) (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6825538169_19fd6f4560_b.jpg)
Saturating the image more creates more vibrancy. The previous DRAC sold by Heritage is on the left-- the same image is on the right, as well, with just a bit more "oomph." Have to say, the crimson in the poster does has have that chum bucket red look to it...
Jeff
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So it turns out all the Heritage trash-talking was nonsense. "The colors on the poster are as vibrant as the day it was printed and have not been altered at all."
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Drac.jpg)
Maybe Kerry Haggard had a fire sale!
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This bickering is all so silly. All will be clear once they publish the "before" photos.
Bruce
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Do you think they will show before pictures Bruce?
By the way, do you all think the reason the colors are so vibrant (and that the posters survived in an attice oscillating between bitter cold, dry winters and hot, humid summers in central Pennsylvania) is because they were wheat pasted up? I was trying to reason this out... If movies were really rotated that often back then (ever few days tops), that means they were probably only exposed to the sun for like 24 total. And even then it was encapsulated in paste. Then each day or two or three, another poster was wheat pasted on top of the last. Could that 'encapsulation' be the reason they not only surivived, but also why they look so good (tears, missing borders, etc... not withstanding)?
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Based on this experience, I think this will be the new way to store your collection, because they have said they are in better condition than say the other Dracula one-sheet, which I know for certain sat folded in a trunk for 80 years. That seems impossible to me, but what do I know?
Posting pre-restoration photos will end all speculation. Will that occur? I don't know.
Bruce
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This bickering is all so silly. All will be clear once they publish the "before" photos.
Bruce
There have been points raised about saturation, lighting, type of camera used, boosting an image before it is posted online etc. All valid issues and, sometimes, opposing thoughts or views presented. But there has been nothing that (I have read) that even borders on bickering. The one comment made about "Heritage trash talking" was completely out of left field, as nothing of the sort has occurred (unless members commenting that, oftentimes, HA images appear to be overly vibrant and saturated is considered "trash talking" - which it isn't).
Will "before" photos be uploaded? Hard to know. Now that the question has been raised, maybe they will. But it remains to be seen if Dracula or any of the other "find" 'before' images will ever be published (aside from the few 'raw' photos that were posted to this thread earlier by APF members).
Kerry
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I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to start taking a hard look at some of these old abandoned homes here in upstate New York.
An earlier post made mention of how many 'finds' were found being used as insulation.
Maybe there's more out there?
Just call me "Treasure Hunter Ted." wynk
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I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to start taking a hard look at some of these old abandoned homes here in upstate New York.
An earlier post made mention of how many 'finds' were found being used as insulation.
Maybe there's more out there?
Just call me "Treasure Hunter Ted." wynk
Wear a mask. Otherwise we'll be calling you "Asbestos-Poisoned Ted"!
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There have been points raised about saturation, lighting, type of camera used, boosting an image before it is posted online etc. All valid issues and, sometimes, opposing thoughts or views presented. But there has been nothing that (I have read) that even borders on bickering. The one comment made about "Heritage trash talking" was completely out of left field, as nothing of the sort has occurred (unless members commenting that, oftentimes, HA images appear to be overly vibrant and saturated is considered "trash talking" - which it isn't).
Will "before" photos be uploaded? Hard to know. Now that the question has been raised, maybe they will. But it remains to be seen if Dracula or any of the other "find" 'before' images will ever be published (aside from the few 'raw' photos that were posted to this thread earlier by APF members).
Kerry
Not trash-talking certainly. It's the level of naivety that some collectors/buyers have that irks me!
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I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to start taking a hard look at some of these old abandoned homes here in upstate New York.
An earlier post made mention of how many 'finds' were found being used as insulation.
Maybe there's more out there?
Just call me "Treasure Hunter Ted." wynk
If you need help digging through attics-- give me a holler, Ted! thumbup
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Posting pre-restoration photos will end all speculation. Will that occur? I don't know.
Bruce
Is that common? Posting pics of the poster before its fixed up?
Doesnt seem like it would help the sale much unless it didnt need much fixing.
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Wear a mask. Otherwise we'll be calling you "Asbestos-Poisoned Ted"!
Good point, Harry.
I don't be needing no mesothelioma, eh? wynk
(http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu12/brude2000/monsters_ver4_xlg.jpg)
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If you need help digging through attics-- give me a holler, Ted! thumbup
Who knows, maybe we'll find some LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT reels, too. thumbup
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"Doesnt seem like it would help the sale much unless it didnt need much fixing."
The written condition description describes a pre-restoration poster with only a few minor defects. Surely posting a pre-restoration image that 100% backs that up would settle any doubts prospective bidders might have.
Bruce
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I agree with Bruce,
A before and after from Heritage is the only way we might find a solution,all the points made regard various ways to pop (i hate that term) the color is distracting.
Stew
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anyone serious enough about bidding on such an item will either personally examine the poster or have someone else do same.
a buyer on a $200k poster doesn't just "wing it"
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anyone serious enough about bidding on such an item will either personally examine the poster or have someone else do same.
a buyer on a $200k poster doesn't just "wing it"
Beat me to it. Exactly right.
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...ways to pop (i hate that term) the color...
Stew
I thought "Makes the colors pop" had been banned with other lines like, "I don't think we're in Kansas anymore" and "I'm not really that into him."
Pop goes the weasel 'cause the weasel goes pop.
cheers
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Ya ya ...Thanks. ;)
I am wondering if we the public will ever see the poster pre restoration.
maybe?
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anyone serious enough about bidding on such an item will either personally examine the poster or have someone else do same.
a buyer on a $200k poster doesn't just "wing it"
One would think that for this (or any other very high end poster), that had undergone ANY kind of restoration, however minor, a high resolution "before" image would be required to be made available to any and all prospective buyers. Looking at a something in person, post restoration, is all well and good, but to be able to see a side by side comparison, both lit identically, of a before and after, seems to make solid sense. We're not talking about revealing the contents of a Classified Gov't document, after all, just a movie poster.
Something about an image being worth a thousand words, and all that. ;)
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OK, I've gone through the next Heritage sig auction. The first two screenshots below show posters that are definitely from the "Berwick discovery" and the next two screenshots are posters I believe are from it also because they are from 1930/1931 and have long discussions about restoration, although the BD is not expressly mentioned. (Most likely, of course, a couple of these are not associated with the BD.)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Berwick0.png)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Berwick1a.png)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Berwick1b.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Berwick2.jpg)
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To answer the question of how bright was and were the posters once unmounted, here are a few photos for your viewing pleasure.
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/draculaal.jpg/)
Dracula completely untouched and just removed.
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/dishonored.jpg/)
Dishonored with Public Enemy style B beneath
(http://ttp://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/pewithbruce.jpg/)
This will give you an idea as to the vibrant nature of the colors
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/batwhispers.jpg/)
Colors were just incredible!!
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/maltesep.jpg/)
Concerning Maltese. It was pretty much all there. Some white paper loss on the right but for instance where his hand shows paper loss, it was on paper that had been lifted by someone who had foolishly tried to pull the posters apart.
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Sorry, I'm new at this photo sharing!
Let me try again!
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Sorry, I'm new at this photo sharing!
Let me try again!
Please do hehe... ;)
Stew
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I like the Dracula.
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1103/draculaal.jpg)
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You've beat me to the Dracula but thank you for sharing my image of it just unmounted!
Here's a few more......
here's how vibrant the colors are..
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7458/pewithbruce.jpg)
By greysm (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/greysm) at 2012-02-19
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1098/batwhispers.jpg)
By greysm (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/greysm) at 2012-02-19
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This is just something to fire out here..
If you had the means to buy this poster,would you prefer the un-restored over the restored example?
Stew
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You've beat me to the Dracula but thank you for sharing my image of it just unmounted!
Yeah. I got excited. Looked damn good as was.
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Same Drac poster. Pre-restore and online catalog images:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/6905355373_6095a7da9f_b.jpg)
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You've beat me to the Dracula but thank you for sharing my image of it just unmounted!
Thanks for the photos Grey. Did you (HA) end up buying these directly? Or were they consigned to you? I'm just curious how it all played out at the little auction house where these were first sold...
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This is just something to fire out here..
If you had the means to buy this poster,would you prefer the un-restored over the restored example?
Stew
Unrestored, especially since the the bottom border had to be re-created. During that process, was the entire poster border airbrushed in order to make it match?
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Same Drac poster. Pre-restore and online catalog images:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/6905355373_6095a7da9f_b.jpg)
Is there a portion missing from the bottom of this?
Stew
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Sorry Jan...same question crossed my mind.
Stew
thumbup
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Per the catalog description, the entire bottom border of the poster, when found, was trimmed to the start of the artwork (no artwork was compromised however). It had to be re-created and restored.
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Per the catalog description, the entire bottom border of the poster, when found, was trimmed to the start of the artwork (no artwork was compromised however). It had to be re-created and restored.
Cheers mate..
Stew
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Cheers mate..
Stew
;)
Border:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7054/6905499129_67b7bb3fca_b.jpg)
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This is just something to fire out here..
If you had the means to buy this poster,would you prefer the un-restored over the restored example?
Stew
In the case of this Dracula poster, I would prefer the restored example over having it how it was when peeled apart.
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(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4451/draculamounted.jpg)
By greysm (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/greysm) at 2012-02-19
This is how it appeared unrestored other than washed and mounted.
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Fantastic photos Grey - thank you for sharing.
The colors on the Dracula are incredible (even without the benefit of the professional lighting/photographing used after restoration), and The Bat Whispers even more so.
Look forward to seeing it in person.
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so where's Harry??
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4451/draculamounted.jpg)
By greysm (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/greysm) at 2012-02-19
This is how it appeared unrestored other than washed and mounted.
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Thanks Grey!
Now that we've seen the unrestored/partially restored photos, what does everybody think it will sell for? Will it beat the prior sale? Damn I need to win the lottery in the next month....
The prior one had less restoration (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7003&lotNo=86503#Photo), so I'm thinking in the low 200s. Then again this may not come up for sale again for years or maybe decades.....
This gorgeous copy has been conserved on linen with touch-up to a couple of pinholes in each corner. There are several minor tears in the border and very minor crossfold separation with tiny paper loss at two points in the poster. There were a couple of small scratches near the Dwight Frye character's right hip which have been touched-up as well. The minor conservation work was performed beautifully. The other two copies of this museum quality one sheet are now in collections, and may not come up for sale for years to come! This is a chance to acquire a cornerstone to the most advanced collection. Provenance; From the Collection of Nicolas Cage. Very Fine on Linen. Estimate: $200,000 - $300,000.
The sad thing is that even something like Drac is still small time compared to the original art market. Look at this dreck being sold at Christies next month in the $200,000 - $300,000 range:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Dreck.jpg)
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Please post more pics of the posters pre-restoration if you can Grey (and thanks for sharing these!)
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Great series of pictures, Grey, of the work as it was in progress. Thanks for posting them!
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Sorry but is it just me, has the question about the image on the auction accurately portraying the poster's colours been categorically answered?
I totally understand the overall condition is fantastic but the representation on the auction looks like one of those beauty adverts in a magazine, all manipulated, saturated and tweaked (nothing like what the model actually looks like in real life and still different to the original photograph). You can see no paper texture, no difference in the matt'ness (not sure if that's a word) of the inks.
I know I'm not a 'vintage' poster collector and have never dealt with restoration, but the two images below strike me as very different. If (and that's a 'never' if) I was in the position to buy a poster like this I would be perturbed about the over-worked photo on the auction, to me it doesn't actually look like a photo!
Suppose my real question is why don't Heritage take a high quality photo of the poster like emovieposter does that shows (with much more accuracy) the real colours of the poster? For example the red of the main 'Dracula' type in the auction image is perfect spanking red, I would be amazed if it looked like that in real life.
All answers, abuse, people telling me I don't know what I'm talking about readily accepted.
Same Drac poster. Pre-restore and online catalog images:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/6905355373_6095a7da9f_b.jpg)
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These are the pics in chronological sequence - 1st pic, as found; 2nd pic, washed and mounted; 3rd pic, as advertised:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Combined.jpg)
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Here is a better side by side comparison of the mounted poster, on linen, while in the process of being restored and the final, catalog presentation. I dont think the final catalog 'retouching/saturation image' question has been addressed yet, either, by Heritage. Taking into consideration the differences in photography and lighting (the image on the left does look more cloudy and blue), the the final, catalog image appears to have been boosted and saturated.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7210/6911435605_9eb6f4bb2c_b.jpg)
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The "washed and restored" pic with light levels properly adjusted looks closer to the advertised picture, although I have to agree that the final advertised appears saturated. Would the colors have become so saturated after drying for a few days?
Unadjusted:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Original-1.jpg)
Adjusted:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Drac-1.jpg)
Compared:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Drac3.jpg)
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the real question is: who cares??
as I stated earlier in this thread - anyone who is interested in this poster (and has the money to buy it) will go to Dallas or send someone to Dallas to examine the poster in person. Anyone else is the "Peanut Gallery".
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the real question is: who cares??
as I stated earlier in this thread - anyone who is interested in this poster (and has the money to buy it) will go to Dallas or send someone to Dallas to examine the poster in person. Anyone else is the "Peanut Gallery".
And of course it will be shown on live video (most likely behind the auctioneer) during the auction for all to see as well....
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Wait - Mel so now you are agreeing that the final catalogue image looks "saturated"?
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Wait - Mel so now you are agreeing that the final catalogue image looks "saturated"?
I think we can agree that "catalogue" is a wacky way of spelling "catalog" :)
Sure, the advertised pic appears saturated compared to the pics we've seen so far. However, having ordered 100 or so posters from Heritage and all of them having shown up exactly like the pics, I know that Heritage does not systematically enhance its pics and I doubt it was done here. I'm sure other pics will be forthcoming and we'll all see it on video at the auction.
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the real question is: who cares??
as I stated earlier in this thread - anyone who is interested in this poster (and has the money to buy it) will go to Dallas or send someone to Dallas to examine the poster in person. Anyone else is the "Peanut Gallery".
Ummm, who cares?? I do, and probably some of the other people discussing it do too. No we can't afford it but this is a film poster forum, and as a poster from an amazing find of many old, rare and desired posters hopefully the place it should be discussed. It'd be a very sad day if we stop discussing posters just because we can't afford them!
We have many threads discussing the minutie of loads of film posters, both vintage and contemporary, in positive and negative ways, on here. We have a 'Pre' and 'Post' auction analysis thread that continually gets great conversations about posters being sold that can cover bad and good dealers/sellers sales and auctions, why is this so different?
I totally agree anyone who is interested (and has the money) in purchasing this or one of the other great posters from the find will make sure they get enough information and try their utmost to actually inspect it person. But as most of us discussing the posters on here cannot entertain the idea of selling a very overused kidney (well me anyway) to even get in the room this is one of our only outlets to discuss our thoughts on the subject.
The other main reason, for me anyway, that makes this a very interesting topic is how it all started. The posters weren't separate when found, they were all pasted together and used in a building as insulation. It's these condition factors involved with this specific find that got my interest in how they're marketed and represented for sale.
Most of us have complained about a photo or description of a poster that misrepresented it's grade, this discussion is a slightly more expensive and amicable meander around a higher end poster and how it's represented. If there was a top quality photo of the actual poster on the auction there would probably not have been this discussion, it could have focused more on the restoration/paper addition and whether people would have preferred it natural or enhanced.
Anyways, as normal with me, ramble, ramble, ramble... I wish I was a bit more eloquent and have the ability to put my thought down more succinctly but I'm afraid that is not the case!
No offence is meant to yourself Mr MPB, your comment just jarred with me a bit, peace love and poster utopia to everyone.
AP
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the real question is: who cares??
as I stated earlier in this thread - anyone who is interested in this poster (and has the money to buy it) will go to Dallas or send someone to Dallas to examine the poster in person. Anyone else is the "Peanut Gallery".
Kind of a +1 on this... Who cares what the colors look like? I am not going to buy it. Although driving up to look at it sounds like fun...
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the real question is: who cares??
as I stated earlier in this thread - anyone who is interested in this poster (and has the money to buy it) will go to Dallas or send someone to Dallas to examine the poster in person. Anyone else is the "Peanut Gallery".
Seems a rather odd question to ask in a forum dedicated to movie posters. If no one cared, there would be no discussion about anything poster related = no forum.
Even tho you may not care, there is a certain amount of interest in this subject, and rightfully so, whether those asking or commenting about it can afford it or not. And it is probably even better discussed for that very reason, since the vast majority will never see this poster in person or be able to send someone to look at it on his or her behalf.
Threads abound here, asking questions of many lesser posters. So why should this one be any different? Simply because is a high end grail of sorts? All the more reason, IMO.
Im sure those that are interested are looking forward to any other photos and information that may be forthcoming, too. ;)
-KL
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A few more photos of unrestored.
I did not take many photos of the process as was mostly just myself involved and when not me, my assistant, and neither of us were interested in photographing it as working alone!! I did this over the holidays and my family wondered why I wasn't around more!
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1651/honoramonglovers.jpg)
Honor Among Lovers
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4632/citystreetspreresto.jpg)
City Streets below Fairbanks
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5907/pitzpalu.jpg)
Here's one you haven't seen! It is the sound version of Pitz Palu! I have no reference for the missing 2-3" on the bottom!
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Great pictures. Thanks, Grey.
The design composition of HONOR AMONG LOVERS is absolutely incredible.
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Nice additional images, Grey.
Can you give a definitive answer to the question about whether the Dracula image, as presented online and in the catalogue, has been saturated or it's color levels boosted, in order to make it appear more vibrant (vs the work in progress photos)? As you can see there is a lot of speculation being presented, based solely on looking at the images.
cheers.
-Kerry
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Seems a rather odd question to ask in a forum dedicated to movie posters. If no one cared, there would be no discussion about anything poster related = no forum.
Even tho you may not care, there is a certain amount of interest in this subject, and rightfully so, whether those asking or commenting about it can afford it or not. And it is probably even better discussed for that very reason, since the vast majority will never see this poster in person or be able to send someone to look at it on his or her behalf.
Threads abound here, asking questions of many lesser posters. So why should this one be any different? Simply because is a high end grail of sorts? All the more reason, IMO.
Im sure those that are interested are looking forward ta any other photos and information that may be forthcoming, too. ;)
-KL
clap clap clap clap clap clap
Great pictures. Thanks, Grey.
Thanks Grey!
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A few more photos of unrestored.
I did not take many photos of the process as was mostly just myself involved and when not me, my assistant, and neither of us were interested in photographing it as working alone!! I did this over the holidays and my family wondered why I wasn't around more!
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1651/honoramonglovers.jpg)
Honor Among Lovers
Beautious! A real keeper. sm1
Thanks, Grey.
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Folks, this isn't a fair question, as every photo taken by a digital camera has some degree of image enhancement performed. It would be a disservice not to do so. Lighting conditions are not always consistent, nor are exposures. A lot of things can affect color, brightness and contrast. Back in the day of film, we adjusted all this stuff in the enlarger. Today we do it with image enhancement software.
Does Grey choose a high contrast and saturation? Probably, but since the final image is influenced by YOUR display settings, it is hard to criticize. It is also easy to grab the mage and apply your own settings.
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Folks, this isn't a fair question, as every photo taken by a digital camera has some degree of image enhancement performed. It would be a disservice not to do so. Lighting conditions are not always consistent, nor are exposures. A lot of things can affect color, brightness and contrast. Back in the day of film, we adjusted all this stuff in the enlarger. Today we do it with image enhancement software.
Does Grey choose a high contrast and saturation? Probably, but since the final image is influenced by YOUR display settings, it is hard to criticize. It is also easy to grab the mage and apply your own settings.
It certainly is a fair (and simple question) to ask and to answer. There is a difference between "a degree" of enhancement and the intense saturation that this images appears to exhibit. I made comment about the lighting and camera set ups being different, earlier (the fresh linen mounted poster has a bluish cast to it, probably due to being shot with available daylight). But to ask if the poster presented on the HA site, is as it appeared when the raw image was taken in their photo dept, (with evenly focused, diffused lighting) is a natural question to ask, especially since it is a digital image.
A number of members made the observation about it looking over saturated and too vibrant. I dont think all of their display setting are such to over enhance everything they view.
Not to get into any bruhaha.. no need. ;)
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I guarantee I have as much experience with separated 80 to 90 year old posters as anyone, and these will LOOK great when they are restored, but they will also have a "dipped in paint" look.
Bruce
Doesnt seem to be the case with these. From all we have seen, none appear to have that "dipped in paint" look, thank God! clap clap clap
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Thanks for the additional photos Grey.
And I think your last post clarifies that Heritage acquired most of the stacks if not all the postersd directly and they are not on consignment?
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I think we can agree that "catalogue" is a wacky way of spelling "catalog" :)
We are a wacky people way up here ;)
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To clarify. I can say the posters were brought to us and we helped with the bill for purchase and restoration.
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We are a wacky people way up here ;)
Whacky..the word is whacky..jees.
Stew
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What is the odd shininess to all the posters? I have never seen a 1930s poster that looked like that, either in person or in photo.
I am surprised if I am the only one wondering this.
Bruce
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They're wet, Bruce.
Sopping wet! Just separated!!
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They're wet, Bruce.
Sopping wet! Just separated!!
hitself for Bruce (should of had a V8)
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Whacky..the word is whacky..jees.
Stew
Yes I agree Stew - we must be consistent here!
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What is the odd shininess to all the posters? I have never seen a 1930s poster that looked like that, either in person or in photo.
I am surprised if I am the only one wondering this.
Bruce
Nope, I was wondering the same thing too, thanks Grey for clearing that up.
BTW, have all the "stacks" been gone through? Just wondering what other gems were found.
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The "significantly restored" Public Enemy Style A popped up. (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9037#Photo) Apparently much of Harlow was missing and had to be recreated based on the pressbook:
(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE/Public%20Enemy%20Style%20A.jpg)
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Another brilliant before and After, with little done to this OS for Honor Among Thieves, aside from some restoration to top and bottom trimmed borders, pinholes and a few small tears:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7055/6914066917_cf4b7ab4ff_b.jpg)
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The "significantly restored" Public Enemy Style A popped up. (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=9037#Photo) Apparently much of Harlow was missing and had to be recreated based on the pressbook:
(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE/Public%20Enemy%20Style%20A.jpg)
Now that is one stunning poster! This is a situation (the ONLY known extant copy!) where I would accept a somewhat heavily restored poster.
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Yes, that is gorgeous.
Great poster for a great movie.
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"If you crave the very rarest, and the very best in vintage movie posters, then you must bid on this historic gem. In more than eight decades, it is the only copy ever to surface, despite the diligent efforts of collectors across the globe searching for paper on this landmark film."
*****
I visualize a bunch of crazed collectors busting up grandpa's attic to find more of these....
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That Public Enemy is just gorgeous.
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THIS is what is so scary about the state of restoration in the hobby these days. If someone posted that Public Enemy image and said IT had be found with virtually no restoration of any kind, I and likely everyone else would believe it, based on that image. And WHO did the recreation of the missing part (or the restoration of the other posters)? And if no other example of this poster exists, how did that restorer know what to draw, and what colors to use?
I agree that if is incredible, as are many of the posters found! Best of luck on getting world record prices. If that happens, then likely next-to-none of the bidders will be from within the hobby, so extensive publicity will be the key to their success in finding those buyers.
Bruce
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I wonder who did the restorations...
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And if no other example of this poster exists, how did that restorer know what to draw, and what colors to use?
Mel did state that the restorer used the pressbook for the image. The colors should be accurate because part of Harlow was available and the colors would continue with the same tones. Yes, there may be a bit that is 'off' but I bet it is not anything major.
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Jay
Look at this sample image of a pressbook page: http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/coolitems/pb_big_cage_backcover.jpg (http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/coolitems/pb_big_cage_backcover.jpg)
Yes, you COULD restore one of these one-sheets from the pressbook image, but you sure would be doing a lot of guessing on color and fine detail.
Bruce
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Wondering who did the work as well.. Grey, can you speak as to who did the restorations? Digital images look like they did fantastic work, if I lived within a few hours drive I would be at this auction just to get the once in a lifetime opportunity to see all of these gathered in one place.
Also if I owned these, I would have staggered the "to market date" as you may run the folks that would be interested in these a little thin on their poster funds. Granted it may be pocket change to several, but I personally feel the sum of the lot would have brought more if not all came to market in one shot.
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I just hope there are more than just chunks of that "White Hell of Pitz Palu." That's the most of that I've ever seen.
--Peter
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Look at this sample image of a pressbook page: http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/coolitems/pb_big_cage_backcover.jpg (http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/coolitems/pb_big_cage_backcover.jpg)
Yes, you COULD restore one of these one-sheets from the pressbook image, but you sure would be doing a lot of guessing on color and fine detail.
And WHO did the recreation of the missing part (or the restoration of the other posters)? And if no other example of this poster exists, how did that restorer know what to draw, and what colors to use?
Well if it had been restored using that pressbook there might be a tiger up in the corner.
WHO Cares who did the restoration? (aside from the fact it looks like their business would boom is people knew).
But it's not like they took a b&w poster, gave it to a restorer and said color it in. Obviously the image is very similar to the WC, which you, me, and everyone else has seen - so the artist had a good idea of what he/she had to recreate.
From the description, it seems that there is a good indication that the colors were known also from what was left of the poster. Could it be possible that the top right border was really blue and didn't match the lower rust-colored border at all? I guess so. Maybe in the original Harlow had a few more individual eyelashes drawn. Who cares? You are comparing it to an item that is not known to exist at this time.
The way the poster presents now I am sure is infinitely more appealing than how it presented before. If I was the proud purchaser of this poster, I would be perfectly fine with the guesses as to color and fine detail the restorer made.
You obviously aren't pleased and so I imagine will not be bidding on it. That's cool too. You can wait for the next one.
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STILL no Fox.
I think these are the only two Fox pictures to come out of the pile so far...
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f7%2f0%2f7570904.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f5%2f0%2f7550866.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
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You've beat me to the Dracula but thank you for sharing my image of it just unmounted!
Here's a few more......
here's how vibrant the colors are..
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7458/pewithbruce.jpg)
By greysm (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/greysm) at 2012-02-19
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1098/batwhispers.jpg)
By greysm (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/greysm) at 2012-02-19
Thanks for sharing the images Grey. It's amazing to see the early stages of the restoration process. If there's more, just keep 'em coming. The colors certainly look very vivid, not as much as in the website, but close enough... ;)
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In the case of this Dracula poster, I would prefer the restored example over having it how it was when peeled apart.
I'll take any of the two :)
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(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE/Public%20Enemy%20Style%20A.jpg)
jawdrop
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As big a fan Of Universal Horror that I am, if I turned up to buy that Dracula, I may just about turn and spend it on that Public Enemy. That is some poster.... And it has a first rate image of Cagney and Harlow. The Dracula don't even have an image of Bela...
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Mel did state that the restorer used the pressbook for the image. The colors should be accurate because part of Harlow was available and the colors would continue with the same tones. Yes, there may be a bit that is 'off' but I bet it is not anything major.
Let's be accurate here. :) HERITAGE stated that the restorer used the PB as a guide for the restoration in its description of the poster, not Dread. That info was cut from HA.com and pasted here to APF, (plus the link).
-KL
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I think these are the only two Fox pictures to come out of the pile so far...
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f7%2f0%2f7570904.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f5%2f0%2f7550866.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
Yup, saw those.
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I just hope there are more than just chunks of that "White Hell of Pitz Palu." That's the most of that I've ever seen.
--Peter
You and your taste in mountain movies... ;)
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Well if it had been restored using that pressbook there might be a tiger up in the corner.
WHO Cares who did the restoration? (aside from the fact it looks like their business would boom is people knew).
But it's not like they took a b&w poster, gave it to a restorer and said color it in. Obviously the image is very similar to the WC, which you, me, and everyone else has seen - so the artist had a good idea of what he/she had to recreate.
From the description, it seems that there is a good indication that the colors were known also from what was left of the poster. Could it be possible that the top right border was really blue and didn't match the lower rust-colored border at all? I guess so. Maybe in the original Harlow had a few more individual eyelashes drawn. Who cares? You are comparing it to an item that is not known to exist at this time.
The way the poster presents now I am sure is infinitely more appealing than how it presented before. If I was the proud purchaser of this poster, I would be perfectly fine with the guesses as to color and fine detail the restorer made.
You obviously aren't pleased and so I imagine will not be bidding on it. That's cool too. You can wait for the next one.
You (and others) may not care; that's fine, but obviously, some (probably many) do, and would like to know who did the work. Questions abound on so many topics in this forum - Poor restorers are discussed and not recommended; good ones are promoted by members. The most recent was the naming of the guy that butchered that ET advance OS years ago.
So with posters of this caliber-- when significant areas have been re-created. or retouched, of course it would be a natural (and valid) question to ask. Any potential buyer of the Public Enemy poster (or any other) would have the right to know who worked on it. And until bidding is finished, anyone looking at this one or the others is a potential buyer, and has the right to know and ask. This isnt government classified information, after all. :P
There has been discussion on other boards that HA uses Jaime Mendez (who did the Haggard fakes) for their restoration work.
-KL
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I think these are the only two Fox pictures to come out of the pile so far...
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f7%2f0%2f7570904.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f5%2f0%2f7550866.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
Nice pair of Foxes. thumbup thumbup
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(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE/Public%20Enemy%20Style%20A.jpg)(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_F6AUIXFHL2k/TLxfQ1W4rQI/AAAAAAAADJc/9JMrGj8iu8k/s1600/the-public-enemy-564102-1.jpg)
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(http://posternirvana.com/0DNE/Public%20Enemy%20Style%20A.jpg)
Every one of these is like another twist in the knife...
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Every one of these is like another twist in the knife...
I'll bet, Harry.
Unfortunately, it's probably only gonna get worse.
I recommend alcohol the night of the auction.
(http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu12/brude2000/GIFS/ablklkd.gif)
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(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479735.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f3%2f7473921.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f1%2f2%2f7512626.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f4%2f7474043.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
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Well, I wonder if they have reached saturation by selling too many high end posters at once to too few high end buyers.
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Another before and after:
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8426/018qte.jpg) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479715.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
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I find that one hard to believe. How can you get rid of mold?
~ Juli
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Another before and after:
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8426/018qte.jpg) (http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479715.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
Not necessarily for that one... I know there were at least two copies of that particular poster. Its hard to tell if that one is just scraps or if there are scraps of other posters on top. Or the one in the auction could be another copy entirely.
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3711/016tt.jpg)
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MILLIE is another drop-dead gorgeous example of 1930's poster art...
Be still my beating heart...
(http://www.trulygraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/beating-heart.gif)
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How awesome would it be if movie studios hired artists like these to design modern posters? There are so many posters that I would like to see redone in this classic style.
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How awesome would it be if movie studios hired artists like these to design modern posters? There are so many posters that I would like to see redone in this classic style.
+1
Just the way the artist captured the expression on her face is something .
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I was able to get them apart. Not work miracles!
Sorry to disappoint you with this photo!
(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4189/millieo.jpg)
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Not necessarily for that one... I know there were at least two copies of that particular poster. Its hard to tell if that one is just scraps or if there are scraps of other posters on top. Or the one in the auction could be another copy entirely.
The description for this poster on HA.com:
"The very scarce one sheet offered here, featuring Twelvetrees in all of her red-headed glory, displays very well after expert professional restoration to address chips and tears in the borders, and one small hole in each hand. This is a poster that any collector will be proud to own and display. From the Berwick Discovery."
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But Grey,
That poster doesn't have a "dipped in paint" look at all.
I'm so disappointed.
What will some people have to pick on now?
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The description for this poster on HA.com:
"The very scarce one sheet offered here, featuring Twelvetrees in all of her red-headed glory, displays very well after expert professional restoration to address chips and tears in the borders, and one small hole in each hand. This is a poster that any collector will be proud to own and display. From the Berwick Discovery."
I meant possibly a third copy from the same stash considering there was already 2.
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7178/6918547295_46ea8afb93_b.jpg)
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I meant possibly a third copy from the same stash considering there was already 2.
Got it. I guess there could have been a 3rd copy in the mix. ;)
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I think your assumption would be absolutely correct.
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I think your assumption would be absolutely correct.
clap clap
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Well, I wonder if they have reached saturation by selling too many high end posters at once to too few high end buyers.
Very true - although there is interest and momentum right now seems crazy to sell them all at once when there are so many big ticket items...
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How awesome would it be if movie studios hired artists like these to design modern posters? There are so many posters that I would like to see redone in this classic style.
Yep! I might even buy some then ;)
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I think your assumption would be absolutely correct.
Next there will be a 2nd Dracula revealed!
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Next there will be a 2nd Dracula revealed!
Don't...that will probably just about finish Matt off!
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Don't...that will probably just about finish Matt off!
Well he could have put together an APF conglomerate to bid against those deep pockets ;)
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7178/6918547295_46ea8afb93_b.jpg)
Can't believe Grey's cellphone pic doesn't show off the colors like Heritage's professional camera/lighting set-up do.
I think it's all rigged.
And I think Januskopf should boycott bidding on any of these out of general principle.
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Can't believe Grey's cellphone pic doesn't show off the colors like Heritage's professional camera/lighting set-up do.
I think it's all rigged.
And I think Januskopf should boycott bidding on any of these out of general principle.
laugh1
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It might be a professional camera and setup but the catalogue photo still doesn't represent "true to life" colours.
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It might be a professional camera and setup but the catalogue photo still doesn't represent "true to life" colours.
And you know this after examining the poster in person today?
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Next there will be a 2nd Dracula revealed!
Don't even joke about that... nono
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Don't even joke about that... nono
Well, this thread HAS become the fourth most popular thread (based on replies)!
So ya got that going for you.... 8)
P.S. Heritage gave Public Enemy Style A a phat "15" grade out of 100.
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Can't believe Grey's cellphone pic doesn't show off the colors like Heritage's professional camera/lighting set-up do.
I think it's all rigged.
And I think Januskopf should boycott bidding on any of these out of general principle.
If you go back and read my earlier posts, I said, at least twice, that I have taken into account the type of camera used, lighting setup (once again, it is easy to see that Grey's image of Millie was taken using available room light or indirect, diffused daylight only and appears slightly blue because of that).
Speculation is just that, so I did ask Grey yesterday (here on APF) the question about images being enhanced or colors being boosted to some degree, before being published to their online auction catalog. Others have commented in this thread on this very same issue (I guess Chris-CSM is also seeing something that isnt so, too?).
The cell phone pic is a nice shot. I may be wrong, and certainly would concede this if so, but having worked with not only color corrected hero product packaging for commercials and print campaigns (wherein labels, images and lettering are boosted and saturated for the camera), as well as digital images, I would be willing to say this the cell phone picture is a closer representation of the overall vibrancy and saturation (again, I'm not commenting on hue here) of the Millie poster than the online catalog image is.
Crow, you dont know the answer, either. Your comments really are the same as mine, but in the reverse, assuming no boosting has been done. It's called healthy debate. ;)
The only entity that can answer this question with certainty is HA.
-Kerry
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7068/6773216948_25b6f68e38_b.jpg)
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The only entity that can answer this question with certainty is HA.
I think the only entity that can answer this question is the Flying Spagetti Monster
(http://www.comic-art.com/temp/spagetti_monster.jpg)
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The only entity that can answer this question with certainty is HA.
-Kerry
And that is an answer I do not expect to be forthcoming.
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And you know this after examining the poster in person today?
Actually I flew down to Dallas and scooped it up - even paid US dollars like a true capitalist poster collector
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Don't even joke about that... nono
Sorry buddy :-[
I was thinking about these stacks at work today (yes I utterly despise my job and like to daydream) - the problem in purchasing them would be that you'd
have to be with your chosen restorer the entire time while they were carefully separated so you could be certain of what was found...
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I think the only entity that can answer this question is the Flying Spagetti Monster
Or maybe the Ontario Sasquatch Research Group - maybe Chris is a member? ;)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Sas.jpg)
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Guess I know what broke into my wife's truck the other night now!
Sasquatch should stick to Dario's part of Canada and leave us whacky Ontarians alone (especially our posters)...
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So, anyways...there I was checking to see if this refurbished store was insulated with vintage posters....
(http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu12/brude2000/GIFS/thiefthroughceiling.gif)
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Actually I flew down to Dallas and scooped it up - even paid US dollars like a true capitalist poster collector
:)
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Helen Twelvetrees...
(http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Twelvetrees,%20Helen/Miscellaneous/Helen%20Twelvetrees%20Radio%20Shows_01.jpg) (http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr160/hello-sweetness/ht1.jpg)
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Is Heritage the ones that made the investment and bought these outright themselves?
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Is Heritage the ones that made the investment and bought these outright themselves?
Heritage "assisted" in some capacity both financially and with setting up the restoration
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To clarify. I can say the posters were brought to us and we helped with the bill for purchase and restoration.
Question was already asked and this was as much of an answer as you all are likely to get.
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Helen Twelvetrees...
(http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Twelvetrees,%20Helen/Miscellaneous/Helen%20Twelvetrees%20Radio%20Shows_01.jpg) (http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr160/hello-sweetness/ht1.jpg)
More of Helen, in THE CAT CREEPS (1930). Directed by Rupert Julian.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fMVsiozprrE/TjkYCoaMsTI/AAAAAAAABNo/x9L-6duJe0o/s1600/4_The+Cat+Creeps+%2528Lobby+Card_1%2529+1930.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la5kq7aOZH1qbrdf3o1_500.jpg)
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Speculation is just that, so I did ask Grey yesterday (here on APF) the question about images being enhanced or colors being boosted to some degree, before being published to their online auction catalog.
The only entity that can answer this question with certainty is HA.
-Kerry
Modified response.
(http://www.animated-gifs.eu/time-hourglass/0012.gif)
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I can understand wanting to know if the photos on HA's website accurately represent what is being sold, or if they have been enhanced at all. However, I don't see how learning who or how these were paid for will change anything. Do you always ask for this info for posters you buy?
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Right, Harry, I agree with you on that. I quoted the wrong post. I modified it, so there was no confusion.
-Kerry
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I personally find it interesting if HA had a hand in this purchase. I cant afford any of these, but a little conflict of interest seems to come to mind, but that is just me.
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I personally find it interesting if HA had a hand in this purchase. I cant afford any of these, but a little conflict of interest seems to come to mind, but that is just me.
Rich sells his own stuff, as does Bruce. Why shouldn't Grey? Just because they are worth more?
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I dont find any conflict of interest here,I tend to think of it as a concerted effort to preserve,restore,auction to the highest bidder..nothing wrong with that..win win win...
Stew
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Rich sells his own stuff, as does Bruce. Why shouldn't Grey? Just because they are worth more?
Bruce, what percentage of the items that you auction each week are consigned to you by others? And what % do you outright own?
(The reason I ask is that I wouldn't consider consigned material "their own stuff").
-KL
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Bruce, what percentage of the items that you auction each week are consigned to you by others? And what % do you outright own?
-KL
Sorry Kerry,but thats pretty irrelevant IMO mate.
Best
Stew
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I personally find it interesting if HA had a hand in this purchase. I cant afford any of these, but a little conflict of interest seems to come to mind, but that is just me.
Comes to mind as in pondering to oneself , not thinking "I bet Heritage shill bids the donkey turd out of these posters".
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Bruce, what percentage of the items that you auction each week are consigned to you by others? And what % do you outright own?
(The reason I ask is that I wouldn't consider consigned material "their own stuff").
-KL
I would guess, none of your business, but both have said that they sometimes buy collections outright and then sell them off at their leisure. This isn't any different.
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Sorry Kerry,but thats pretty irrelevant IMO mate.
Best
Stew
If for no other reason, Stew, it would be an interesting fact, since Bruce auctions so much consigned material. And I am sure he owns a boatload of stuff, too. ;)
-Kerry
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I agree Kerry,
But if it was me or you asked the same question,how forthcoming with the answer would we be?
Best
Stew
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I would guess, none of your business, but both have said that they sometimes buy collections outright and then sell them off at their leisure. This isn't any different.
No reason to get defensive. And why are you answering for Bruce, in the first place? I don't get why this "speak/answer for others" mentality exists in forums. If Bruce feels it is none of my (or the form's business), I'm sure he will say so.
-Kerry
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Comes to mind as in pondering to oneself , not thinking "I bet Heritage shill bids the donkey turd out of these posters".
Its not an unreasonable thought,however I would like to see any examples of past shill bidding just so I could make a better informed opinion.
Stew
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I agree Kerry,
But if it was me or you asked the same question,how forthcoming with the answer would we be?
Best
Stew
Stew,
Id be very forthcoming. I dont see it as any big secret. But that's just me. :)
-Kerry
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:)
I`m flipside mate,,maybe on pm,but not here...
Stew
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Kerry,
I feel embarrassed as part of the group over these questions. All the dealers here have been forthcoming on the selling part of their business, but unless they are buying from you, these are the sort of details where no good is going to come from answering these questions. Kind of like your co-worker asking how much your company pays you.
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I had already decided to no longer post on this thread (no need to announce it) but now that I have been asked I am saying so.
I feel anything I post will likely be viewed by certain people as an attack on Heritage, and I don't want to get into any of these wars.
None of the buyers will come from this board anyway, so it is merely discussion for its own sake.
Talk all you want, but if you want to discuss eMoviePoster.com, start a different thread.
Bruce
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None of the buyers will come from this board anyway, so it is merely discussion for its own sake.
Bruce
Sorry your frustration level has been reached...too many geeks so little time....
Stew
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Back to the topic at hand ;D
this is another beauty, and it also sounds exceedingly rare:
"Offered here, however, is the exceedingly scarce original Columbia version of the poster, the version used to promote the picture during its original release. Due to the extreme rarity of original Columbia-issued paper on this title, this gorgeous stone litho has never before been offered by Heritage in over a decade of vintage movie poster auctions."
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479732.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
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No reason to get defensive. And why are you answering for Bruce, in the first place? I don't get why this "speak/answer for others" mentality exists in forums. If Bruce feels it is none of my (or the form's business), I'm sure he will say so.
actually Kerry, I think the real question is why you or anyone else thinks they have any right what-so-ever to ask such questions?
If you ask me I'll tell you "it's none of your effin business".
such a question is pretty nosey
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My problem is not with answering questions, just not on this thread.
Sometimes you can learn more from a non-response than you can from a long answer filled with doublespeak.
Over and out!
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My problem is not with answering questions, just not on this thread.
Sometimes you can learn more from a non-response than you can from a long answer filled with doublespeak.
Over and out!
Agreed, Bruce. I sidetracked this thread and realize that this isn't the place place to inquire.
-KL
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This Berwick Discovery is absolutely incredible.
So many outstandingly beautiful rarities in one group.
Has there ever been an auction quite like this before?
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This Berwick Discovery is absolutely incredible.
So many outstandingly beautiful rarities in one group.
Has there ever been an auction quite like this before?
I am absoluely stunned, and at the same time depressed because I realize that non of them will ever be mine :(
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This Berwick Discovery is absolutely incredible.
So many outstandingly beautiful rarities in one group.
Has there ever been an auction quite like this before?
Royal Theatre
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Royal Theatre
And what was that like?
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So who is going to see these beauties? Already convince the wife to make the 3 hour trip for probably a once in a lifetime viewing...
And what even made me happier is when she said "Do you have any money?". I said "A little." She then says, "Well you better save your March allowance; no point in going to an auction if your not going to buy something...." So I gave her $300 to start my HA/Berwick viewing fund... Because if I have it; its not going to last long...
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And what was that like?
Posted on this forum previously (http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php?topic=558.0) but worth repeating:
The Royal Theater Collection -- Jon R. Warren
--------------------------------------------------------
In 1990 or 91, can't remember now, a group of investors and I purchased what has come to be called the Canadian Collection for $320,000 (or somewhere around there, something over $300,000 but I don't recall the exact amount).
I flew up there, inspected the collection, and paid the cashier's check to THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT!
The collection was a matter of legal dispute over who owned the posters...so the collection was sold and, pending the outcome of the court, the proceeds were to be paid to the winner of the argument.
In a small town in Canada named Provost there once was a theater called The Royal Theater (what a great name!). The posters found there truly were royal.
The theater had been in the family since the 1920s, and in the late 1980s it had been sold to a new owner who was renovating it to be turned into a video store.
In the process of tearing out walls, lo and behold, a closet was found with a door in the floor which led down into a long-lost basement. In the basement were piles upon piles of old movie posters, dating from about 1929 and going through about 1950. From this time period, virtually every film that had been released was represented by multiple one sheets, lobby card sets, and (oddly enough) mini window cards. Even more astounding was the condition of the posters. Because of the dark and dry and cool conditions, the posters were in simply unbelievable condition (except for those that had what we called rat piss on them, yellow streaks of...well...rat piss). Pristine white borders without the slightest trace of yellowing. Brilliant colors that practically glowed. And the smell...ahh that faint musty scent...
Stacks and stacks, multiple copies, mint sets of Casablanca, Hound of the Baskervilles, Adventures of Robin Hood... you name it, it was there. Except for Universal horror, which was oddly not represented at all. Some have speculated that the Universal horror films were not shown in Canada due to censors. Others have speculated that the Universal horror WAS there, and that what the police confiscated and sold to me and my group was really just the tip of the iceberg. If so, what a tip!
Now, the new owner had told the work crew to clear the place out, to gut it, and to get rid of all the accumulated junk and trash.
So they did. But on the way to the dump one of the workers got the bright idea that the posters might have value. They decided to keep them and take them to the flea market that Saturday. And that was when the troubles began. Little did they know that by doing so they were breaking Canadian law.
Some of the others can chip in here, for the details of that Saturday, exactly how Sol Candell became involved, and other facts in the early discovery of the posters is a bit vague for me after all these years.
I remember that somehow Candell (coincidentally?) was at the flea market, that they started something called the Edmonton Poster Society, that a TV news show spotlighted the society, which was how the original theater owners and the new theater owners came to find out they had been ripped off (really now, they didn't even know the posters were there and besides, had given instructions to throw out the trash), but nevertheless, after the news show exclaimed how wonderful and possibly valuable these posters could be all hell broke loose and a war over the posters began.
The first thing that happened was the new owner had the work crew members arrested for theft. One of the work crew, a Daniel Pelletier (I believe his first name was Daniel, might have been David) was mentally unstable, or on medication which he failed to get while in jail. He committed suicide. He couldn't live with the idea of going to jail for something he did not even know was against the law.
The police confiscated the posters, and it was these confiscations that my group purchased from the court. But, I have heard that only part of the posters were at the home where the police raid occurred and that a larger portion were elsewhere at the time, either at Sol Candell's or somewhere else.
The poster collecting world first became aware of the Canadian collection when Sol Candell ran a small ad in Movie Collector's World (I would love a copy of that issue) offering classic titles for dirt cheap prices. Poor Sol had no idea of the true value of some of these gems. He was selling Adventures of Robin Hood one sheets for $200, classic Temples and Garbos for $100, and so on. Maltese Falcon, mint, $50. That kind of thing.
A mle ensued.
Kirby McDaniel, Morris Everett, and Gary Vaughn were among the first callers, being so smart that they regularly had their copies of MCW delivered via Federal Express just for such eventualities. Todd Feiertag didn't bother to call. He hopped in his car and drove to Edmonton! Some wonder what Universal horrors the master Universal horror collector may or may not have obtained during this trip. Can you say Mummy?
A significant number of posters were sold to collectors all around the world as a result of that ad, and they all came to be named in the lawsuit. It seemed the Canadian government demanded the return of the posters under penalty of law!
Of course, the letters demanding the return of posters fell on reluctant collector ears, all of whom promptly filed the letters in file 13.
Before long, the law raided Sol Candell's place and confiscated his remaining posters, but not before a significant number were sold. And probably not before the work crew called and alerted him, giving him plenty of time to haul off a large bulk and store them in a secure, un-police-raided place.
Somewhere, about here, in this timeline, one of the workers (or someone, I can't remember the exact details) drove to Sol Candell's and demanded the return of the posters which had been given to Sol for consignment (these were the ones Sol was selling in MCW). According to legend, the story that was told to me, this person was found dead in his car on the side of the road a few days later. No posters were in his car. After getting posters from Sol, what happened to the young man? Had someone been casing Sol's place, waiting to rob him, and then followed the man who had loaded the piles of posters into his car? No one knows. The posters he took away that day were never found.
I received a letter in the mail from the Royal Canadian Government, notifying me of their intent to accept bids for the enclosed list of movie posters. It seems that the court was soliciting bids from major advertisers for the sale of the posters.
The list was, to put it mildly, mind blowing. After calculating conservatively, I figured the value of the collection to be worth more than $900,000. Way too rich for my blood, alone. But I had friends. After some convincing and arm twisting (they came into the deal kicking and screaming) they agreed to put in enough money to make a realistic bid. Steve Geppi was the largest investor, I was second, Steve Fishler was third, and Mark Wilson was the fourth investor.
The gossip and grapevine rattling surrounding the rumors of who was bidding and how much they were going to bid is a story unto itself. We were trying to reconnoiter bids so that we could top the second bid by the least amount possible. But it was Steve Geppi who said, to hell with it, let's not gamble, bid enough that we get it and don't worry about bidding too much more than the second guy.
We won the bid.
Mark Wilson and I went to Edmonton to take possession. I spent several days going through the collection, a time I will never forget. This was poster heaven. I mean, it was beyond my wildest dreams to ever get to see such gorgeous posters, much less own them. Mark and I kept shaking our heads at the incredible condition. And at the incredible titles.
Who won the lawsuit? What do you think? Did the original owner sell the real estate AND contents, or just the real estate. Who did the posters belong to? Who got the money? I'll tell you one thing: the workers didn't get it, they got criminal records instead.
Turns out, believe it or not, that the ORIGINAL OWNERS got the money. The new owner bought the real estate, but all the junk and papers abandoned inside were the property of the original owner until the second they hit the junkyard, at which time they would have became public domain.
Just think, if the workers had dumped the posters at the dump and then came back later and retrieved them they would have been the proud owners, legally, of a bunch of movie posters. But since they waylaid them prior to the dumping, they were thieves. Ironic, huh?
Over the next year or two we sold the collection. We recouped our investment within six months. My investors were extremely happy. They all now liked movie posters very much. Steve Fishler liked them so much he started collecting them. He has amassed quite a collection since that day in Tennessee when we decided to become partners and buy a collection in Canada. His collection includes a little poster we fondly call the Frankenstein six sheet....
Jon R. Warren
Warren's Movie Poster Price Guide
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Thanks, Mel. hitself
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I bet a lot of the story is hocus-pocus - TWO DEATHS? - but it does have some "truthiness" to it....
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What's next, FRANKENSTEIN?
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This Secret Bride - now linen-backed - is from the Royal Theater Collection (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=108001):
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf-1-3.jpg)
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This Secret Bride - now linen-backed - is from the Royal Theater Collection (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotIdNo=108001):
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/lf-1-3.jpg)
I don't give a shit, I'll never be able to afford any of these fuckers, just keep 'em coming!!!
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That one is not out of the realm of possibility - an unbacked copy sold for $2,600 on Ebay just last month:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Secret-Bride.jpg)
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Berwicks are up, just let me find my checkbook....
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/D.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/d2.jpg)
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Some of those seem low... Cimarron at $12-18K and Maltese Falcon at $10-20K in particular. Regardless, if you total up all the estimates you get:
LOW = ~$300,000
HIGH = ~$575,000
Poop.
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Harry, are you going to bid on any?
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I wish. Everything I would want is (well) north of $10k. The only way I'll ever own anything like that is to get rich working, piece together enough sweet deals over a very long period of time, or to find them in the first place.
Maybe I should combine 1 and 3 and start an insulation removal company with Ted. ;D
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I was tempted with the Criminal Code, being a Karloff film. Especially being the one where Whale first saw Karloff....
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Some of those seem low... Cimarron at $12-18K and Maltese Falcon at $10-20K in particular. Regardless, if you total up all the estimates you get:
LOW = ~$300,000
HIGH = ~$575,000
Poop.
Either artificially low to increase interest/bids or a sign of the economy.
I still think it is a mistake to sell all these at once - although I suppose there are (lesser?) others forthcoming for future auctions...
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I dont recall seeing a specific number mentioned in the various posts in the thread here and wanted to ask.
How many posters, in total, (aside from any that may have been a total loss, due to damage etc) comprise the Berwick Discovery?
Have they all been listed in the upcoming HA auction this month? Or will others make there way into future auctions as well?
Jeff
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I dont recall seeing a specific number mentioned in the various posts in the thread here and wanted to ask.
How many posters, in total, (aside from any that may have been a total loss, due to damage etc) comprise the Berwick Discovery?
Have they all been listed in the upcoming HA auction this month? Or will others make there way into future auctions as well?
Jeff
I don't think anyone knows the final, exact number Jeff (well except for Heritage/Grey that is) because they were all stuck together.
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I dont recall seeing a specific number mentioned in the various posts in the thread here and wanted to ask.
How many posters, in total, (aside from any that may have been a total loss, due to damage etc) comprise the Berwick Discovery?
Have they all been listed in the upcoming HA auction this month? Or will others make there way into future auctions as well?
Jeff
From my first post, there were assumed to be about 30-50 posters... but that was just an estimate.
I'm guessing this is it. HA has 33 listed right now. There very well could be more (Dracula #2. Sigh.), but given how rough the 2nd Public Enemy was, a portion of the posters presumably were too far gone to restore and they only made the effort for ones that might command a premium.
I see your point Chris, but maybe having them all in one go might attract more bidders than usual for this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
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From my first post, there were assumed to be about 30-50 posters... but that was just an estimate.
I'm guessing this is it. HA has 33 listed right now. There very well could be more (Dracula #2. Sigh.), but given how rough the 2nd Public Enemy was, a portion of the posters presumably were too far gone to restore and they only made the effort for ones that might command a premium.
I see your point Chris, but maybe having them all in one go might attract more bidders than usual for this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
Thanks, Mr. Caul. ;)
Jeff
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Either artificially low to increase interest/bids or a sign of the economy.
I still think it is a mistake to sell all these at once - although I suppose there are (lesser?) others forthcoming for future auctions...
Chris
Heritage has one of the very best customer lists there are
at the same time, those collectors interested in these posters are not constrained by financial issues
so I am absolutely certain the results on these posters will be fantastic, due to these issues
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Chris
Heritage has one of the very best customer lists there are
at the same time, those collectors interested in these posters are not constrained by financial issues
so I am absolutely certain the results on these posters will be fantastic, due to these issues
I too expect these posters to do well despite being all grouped together.
Personally, I just believe that it would have benefited Heritage/the consignor in the long run to have spread them out a bit.
How many "Signature Auctions" do they have a year - 4? Is there going to be another, similar find before the next high profile auction? ;)
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I don't think Heritage has had any problems finding marquee items for each and every auction Chris.. There can be no doubt that they have an incredible catalog time after time after time every 3 months that anyone in the business would love to be compiling
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I need to set me up an auction house...MPB,EMP,Heritage all performing well last year,this is the place i WOULD LOVE TO BE...
To think i was gutted at taking a $50 dollar loss on a poster last year..well done to all for keeping the hobby alive and kicking..
Stew
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I think this batch of lovelies will approach (or top) $1 million.
And, I also think there's a FRANKENSTEIN coming.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lYrElVXyPiE/TqD4wOVPmMI/AAAAAAAAEI4/LXxmxs36768/s1600/a2.jpg)
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I think we established these posters date from the wrong part of 1931 for Franky?
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I think this batch of lovelies will approach (or top) $1 million.
And, I also think there's a FRANKENSTEIN coming.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lYrElVXyPiE/TqD4wOVPmMI/AAAAAAAAEI4/LXxmxs36768/s1600/a2.jpg)
If so, waiting with baited breath. cool1
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I think we established these posters date from the wrong part of 1931 for Franky?
Maybe a teaser.
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Maybe a teaser.
We are officially no longer friends.
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We are officially no longer friends.
Oops. Sorry Matt, I thought you stopped reading this thread. Too painful and all... wynk
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Personally, I just believe that it would have benefited Heritage/the consignor in the long run to have spread them out a bit.
found out why all of these posters are being sold at the same time (well one reason at least)
would you believe that Grey had Heritage print a separate catalog just for the Berwick posters!!!
that's being top notch!!!
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Adrian Curry's "Movie Poster of the Week" blog on Mubi.com (http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/movie-poster-of-the-week-the-public-enemy-and-the-berwick-discovery-of-lost-movie-posters) has a long article on these posters. Excerpts:
They had survived in such good condition for a number of reasons. First of all, a movie theater in the early 1930s would have used a water-soluble wallpaper paste to put up the posters, so it was possible, even eight decades later, to steam them apart with no damage to the paper. And Smith thinks that the cool climate of Pennsylvania may have helped, as well as the temperature in the attic itself. According to Smith, the colors on the posters are “astoundingly bright.”
Also interesting is that there are a number of doubles in the Berwick collection: two distinct poster designs for the same film. The fact that A and B styles for the same film showed up in the same batch of posters proves that they must have been exhibited side-by-side.
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found out why all of these posters are being sold at the same time (well one reason at least)
would you believe that Grey had Heritage print a separate catalog just for the Berwick posters!!!
that's being top notch!!!
Well Rich you also have to remember Heritage certainly isn't printing a separate catalogue for altruistic reasons!
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business is not an altruistic endeavor, not that altruism can't live hand-in-hand with business
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Adrian Curry's "Movie Poster of the Week" blog on Mubi.com (http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/movie-poster-of-the-week-the-public-enemy-and-the-berwick-discovery-of-lost-movie-posters) has a long article on these posters. Excerpts:
They had survived in such good condition for a number of reasons. First of all, a movie theater in the early 1930s would have used a water-soluble wallpaper paste to put up the posters, so it was possible, even eight decades later, to steam them apart with no damage to the paper. And Smith thinks that the cool climate of Pennsylvania may have helped, as well as the temperature in the attic itself. According to Smith, the colors on the posters are “astoundingly bright.”
Also interesting is that there are a number of doubles in the Berwick collection: two distinct poster designs for the same film. The fact that A and B styles for the same film showed up in the same batch of posters proves that they must have been exhibited side-by-side.
Why? Couldn't they just have been stored side by side? 'Proved' seems to be an overly strong term...
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So a few weeks ago I posted a story on the "Berwick Discovery" on Moviepostercollectors.com in a new "Stories" section. (http://www.moviepostercollectors.com/Stories.html) (I'm going to add the Royal Theatre story, the Frankenstein six sheet story (which may be bogus), in the future).
A reporter from Press Enterprise (http://www.pressenterpriseonline.com/), the newspaper that covers Berwick, Pennsylvania, found the article (presumably through Google) and sent me an email. She is writing a story on the "Berwick Discovery" for the local paper and is looking for more details, including the identity of the original owner of the stacks. I talked to her for a bit, told her that I was a secondary source, and referred her to this thread and some other references (you can guess who but I can't confirm). She had previously talked to Grey Smith. The only new tidbit I learned is that forty posters were in the stacks and seven were unsalvageable (wonder which posters were unsalvageable?). Not sure if/when the newspaper article will be published but will pass along when I get it. (Apparently the story could be picked up by the national press (AP) but no guarantee.)
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Berwick 2...
(http://www.moviegoods.com//Assets/product_images/1020/199340.1020.A.jpg)
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After that article comes out, you know that the Berwickites are going to tear the hell out of their attics looking for more stacks!
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The only new tidbit I learned is that forty posters were in the stacks and seven were unsalvageable (wonder which posters were unsalvageable?).
Grey mentioned they only had 1/2 of the poster for White Hell of Pitz Palu and I think that one of the Millie posters was not usable.
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one of the Millie posters was not usable.
I agree. One of them had a lot of mold on it. I don't think you can get rid of mold.
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I agree. One of them had a lot of mold on it. I don't think you can get rid of mold.
Juli,
I think this was the copy they could not save.. RIP. :'( ;)
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8426/018qte.jpg)
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I'd take it in that condition and re-paint it myself.
What a great poster...
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actually.. I think there was a copy even worse than that one
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I'd take it in that condition and re-paint it myself.
What a great poster...
Heres another you can play with, Ted. You can add her face from scratch: ;)
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3711/016tt.jpg)
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So I guess the 33 listed are the entire extant lot then...
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possibly so, unless they find a Frankenstein teaser yet
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possibly so, unless they find a Frankenstein teaser yet
Wouldn't that be something....
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possibly so, unless they find a Frankenstein teaser yet
Well that would need to be in another "find" - and then I would have to eat crow because HA could have
another spectacular major auction...
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Received my Heritage catalog - WITH DELIVERY CONFIRMATION!
(http://www.posternirvana.com/0DNE/0-APF/Heritage-cat.jpg)
If I don't buy anything, I won't be surprised to receive the following letter in two weeks:
Dear Mel:
We noticed you did not purchase ANYTHING from our signature auction. Not even a lobby card! Don't you feel guilty? We sent you a freaking BRICK catalog and what do we get in return? Nada. Nothing. Not even a bite.
We KNOW you got that catalog. Don't even PRETEND otherwise because delivery confirmation doesn't lie!
Well, let me tell you something pal. We know where you live. We know where you work. We have ways of making you buy......
BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!
So don't disappoint us again, if you know what's good for you....
Sincerely
Grey Smith
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Guess confirmed shipping was too much Canada...but the images are on the HA site (with presumably the same write-ups?)
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I musta fell off their mailing list. No catalog for me this time around... :'(
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Last time I checked you can pay $100 per year and they send you 4 quarterly auction catalogs and they include a $100 voucher you can spend in their auction, so it could work out to free catalogs if you can use the voucher
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Last time I checked you can pay $100 per year and they send you 4 quarterly auction catalogs and they include a $100 voucher you can spend in their auction, so it could work out to free catalogs if you can use the voucher
I doubt the $100 voucher would even cover their international shipping charges ;)
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PM me if you want my catalogs after the auction for actual cost of mailing. First come, first served.
UPDATED: Well, that offer didn't last long - gone in five minutes. Some old school print people hanging around here....
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PM me if you want my catalogs after the auction for actual cost of mailing. First come, first served.
UPDATED: Well, that offer didn't last long - gone in five minutes. Some old school print people hanging around here....
Can't have mine... ;D They are pretty cool; can't wait for Berwick 2!
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I was going to bid on the Dracula 1sht, but seeing as I never got a catalog they can poke it up their dot...... ;)
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I was going to bid on the Dracula 1sht, but seeing as I never got a catalog they can poke it up their dot...... ;)
laugh1
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I was going to bid on the Dracula 1sht, but seeing as I never got a catalog they can poke it up their dot...... ;)
That's a great English expression
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That's a great English expression
New York City variation: "keister it in your starfish"
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New York City variation: "keister it in your starfish"
Far less refined Ted - just like London vs. New York ;)
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I doubt the $100 voucher would even cover their international shipping charges ;)
Yes, good point...
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Far less refined Ted - just like London vs. New York ;)
Lets have less of this London Talk, I'm up in the North. Have you not heard of the great North/south divide in this country....
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Lets have less of this London Talk, I'm up in the North. Have you not heard of the great North/south divide in this country....
Yes, yes. But we are talking New York here Paul - you thus need a comparable city.
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Well I'm closer to Edinburgh.... ;)
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Someone posted this link in another forum:
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120312/ENT/120319922
Not much new information, although I don't think the $30k purchase price has been discussed here.
I thought the $200k minimum bid for Dracula statement was interesting, since they apparently have accepted the current $90k internet bid as valid.
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Someone posted this link in another forum:
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120312/ENT/120319922
Not much new information, although I don't think the $30k purchase price has been discussed here.
I thought the $200k minimum bid for Dracula statement was interesting, since they apparently have accepted the current $90k internet bid as valid.
Jay you are forgetting how Heritage operates. The $90,000 bid doesn't matter if there is a hidden reserve. If there is one, and $200,000 is the minimum, you will see once the reserve is applied that the bid is now miraculously $200,000 (even if noone has bid that amount).
And the $30,000 total cost WAS discussed here...
Still thanks for sharing the article.
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On the second page of "The Berwick Discovery" mini auction catalog from Heritage, the second to last paragraph starts out with "The story of the Berwick Discovery of Lost Movie Posters is far from over......".
Does this imply that there are more posters to come?
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On the second page of "The Berwick Discovery" mini auction catalog from Heritage, the second to last paragraph starts out with "The story of the Berwick Discovery of Lost Movie Posters is far from over......".
Does this imply that there are more posters to come?
Probably a builder in the area used one-sheets for insulation for many years, so now everyone in town will be tearing the houses apart looking for posters.
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Or there will be more to add to the story once the results are in.
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Or there will be more to add to the story once the results are in.
That's how I understood it as well
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Front page article in Press Enterprise today:
BERWICK’S $250G+ FIND: Rare film posters from attic called collectors’ ‘dream’
By SUSAN SCHWARTZ
Press Enterprise Writer
March 13, 2012
BERWICK — A set of rare movie posters from 1930 and 1931 reportedly turned up in a Berwick attic last summer glued together and being used as insulation. Now an auction house expects to get more than $250,000 for the collection. The posters, dubbed “The Berwick Discovery” by Heritage Auctions, include a 1931 poster for “Dracula” starring Bela Lugosi — only the fourth of its kind still known to exist. Heritage sold one for $310,000 in 2009. The treasures also include the only known copy of a poster from “The Public Enemy” and one of only two known posters for “Little Caesar.” Both were gangster movies from 1931. “All collectors live for the dream of making a great find, like a stack of posters in a bookstore that the bookstore didn’t know what to do with,” said Gray Smith, the poster expert for Heritage, who painstakingly peeled apart the Berwick posters. The job took 80 hours.
A mystery
Exactly where the posters have been all these years is a mystery. They probably came from one of Berwick’s three movie houses at the time: The Strand, The Palace or the Temple, the auction house said. Smith said in the 1930s, movie house owners would plaster posters for new releases over older ones. After the stack built up, they’d be removed from the boards.
On Oct. 23, a member of allposterforum.com wrote that six stacks of these glued together posters were found between the rafters of a Berwick attic, according to moviepostercollectors. com. The homeowner died, and a small estate sale was being held in this borough, said the member, who goes by the name “Harry Caul.” Caul wrote that he received some photos from the auctioneers, Patriot Antique and Auction Center out of West Virginia, and he eagerly awaited the Oct. 23 sale. “I was in it to win it with some pretty large max bids,” he wrote. But he was blown away by the final prices.
Smith said the winner paid between $30,000 and $40,000 for the six stacks of gluedtogether posters.
‘My jaw dropped’
That winner, who is remaining anonymous, apparently never planned to keep them; the purchaser sent photos of the stacks to Heritage even before buying them, asking if Heritage would be interested in reselling them. “Little Caesar” was already visible on top of one stack, said Smith. “My jaw dropped open.” That poster alone was worth more than $20,000, he said. “I told him we’d be very interested in what they are,” Smith said. “But we couldn’t tell what their value would be unless we got them.” When the poster stacks arrived at his door, Smith saw some of the top layers weren’t in good shape. But he could see more posters peeking through the shreds. “It’s fascinating,” said Smith. “It was sort of like looking for buried treasure.” Smith used a clothing steamer with distilled water to melt the wallpaper paste holding the stacks together and a water spritzer to carefully soak the posters. Then he used a paint spatula to painstakingly separate them. “It’s like removing wallpaper,” he said. “Only in this case, the wallpaper was extremely valuable.”
‘Come quickly!’
Smith worked from the back to avoid damaging the fronts of the posters. The first one he peeled off the first stack was “Dishonored,” starring Marlene Dietrich in her second U.S. film. As he worked on the second poster, a blue-purple stamp started showing through. Only Warner Brothers used such a stamp at that time, and he had a feeling it was something good. Then he worked his way to the title and yelled to his assistant. “It was sort of like Alexander Graham Bell,” he remembered. “I yelled, ‘Come quickly! Does that say what I think?’” He had just uncovered “The Public Enemy,” which had never before been on the market. He estimated that poster is worth at least $25,000. Along with “Little Caesar,” it formed the template for every gangster movie afterward, Smith said.
‘Great sampling’
In the end, he was able to peel off 33 saleable posters out of about 40. “It turned out to be a great sampling of good movies.” The colors were astonishingly bright, he added. Each poster probably saw the light of day only for three days before the advertisement for the next coming attraction was plastered over it. Smith later sent the posters to a restoration shop. Staff there washed them to remove the grime and remaining paste, used chemicals to deacidify the paper, mounted them on special pH-balanced paper, and fi nally attached them to cotton duck material so they could be rolled up. “They were unfolded and put on boards, so the creases were less apparent than they would have been if they’d been stored in a box and unfolded and refolded,” he said.
Online bidding for the posters has already started. The highest bids will be the starting point for the live auction March 23, Smith said. Bidders can show up in person at the auction in Dallas, Texas, or submit bids by phone or over the Internet.
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Second page article:
FROM THEATERS TO BUILDING MATERIALS
By SUSAN SCHWARTZ
Press Enterprise Writer
March 13, 2012
BERWICK — Lots of movie posters from the 1930s fell victim to the Great Depression, World War II and new fire codes, said Gray Smith, director of movie posters for Heritage Auctions.
During the Great Depression, people made do with what they could, Smith said. So it’s not surprising someone would take piles of old posters and use them to insulate an attic.
According to moviepostercollectors.com [THIS IS INCORRECT - SHOULD SAY ACCORDING TO BRUCE HERSHENSON’S ARTICLE ‘THE HISTORY OF MOVIE POSTERS’], some builders between 1910 and the early 1930s even hooked up with poster exchanges to take large amounts of outdated posters and put them in the walls of new homes.
The website administrator [INCORRECT] said he knows of at least 10 occasions when people remodeling their houses found stashes of posters in their walls or under the floors.
Then in World War II, posters fell victim to paper drives, Smith said. And after the war, new fire codes sent fire marshals into theaters, where they ordered owners to get rid of dangerous stacks of old paper. The recent find in Berwick was unusually big, including several posters from important movies in surprisingly good condition, experts said.
The news surprised Joe Yachimowski, a Bloomsburg collector and Berwick native who contacted the paper after getting an email from an auction house. “This is an amazing find,” said Yachimowski, who usually collects less-expensive movie lobby cards. “I just wondered who found it, and where they were. “And I wonder if anyone has any more. People should be checking their attics.” He also regrets not hearing about the first, local auction of the posters. “Where was I that day?” he asked.
Local auctioneers said they didn’t remember any such auction. The auction house one online source credited with running the first sale, Patriot Antique and Auction Center of West Virginia, did not return repeated calls.
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Probably a builder in the area used one-sheets for insulation for many years, so now everyone in town will be tearing the houses apart looking for posters.
What is also interesting is the visual idea, when the word "stack" is used. In my mind, I pictured piles that were rather thick, like a book. The total find was about 40 one sheets, according to Grey and the news articles. If all 40 were literally placed one on top of the other, how thick would this total "stack" of posters be? About an inch? (or less?) Basically, we are talking about the thickness of a single sheet of paper, times 40. :)
Since the posters were comprised of six stacks, each pile would have been rather thin, I am assuming.
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Interesting article Mel and thanks for posting.
I guess Matt can take some solace in the fact he is infamous!
The article is also further evidence that we never know who is reading the information posted on this forum.
I also found it startling that Grey himself apparently undertook the chore of separating the posters! I had raised concerns earlier that if they were simply
sent to a restorer in a stack how would the buyer know what was in there unless they attended as well?
I don't know if I would have the nerve to separate them myself - I'd choose the lurking over the professional's shoulder approach!
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The article is also further evidence that we never know who is reading the information posted on this forum.
I also found it startling that Grey himself apparently undertook the chore of separating the posters!
The reporter found my article about TBD in the Stories section of MoviePosterCollectors.com (http://moviepostercollectors.com/Stories.html) and I referred her to other sources, including this forum thread.
Yes Grey The Great Restorer?
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Basically, we are talking about the thickness of a single sheet of paper, times 40. :)
Since the posters were comprised of six stacks, each pile would have been rather thin, I am assuming.
That's what I was thinking too. I thought maybe they found them folded but that doesn't appear to be the case, so the stacks would have been quite thin which makes me wonder how they could have insulated a house/attic?
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If you guys look at the very beginning of the thread there are pictures of 1/2 a stack.
And yes, the "stacks" were clearly quite thin. I doubt they were the only means of insulation used...
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Right, Chris.
Six- 27Wx40H x1/4" thick stacks may have been placed in areas of the attic (ceiling or floor) that were lacking in regular insulation, so they were used as secondary filler.
And kudos to Grey for being the steam-meister, doing the initial poster separations. Great Job! happy1
Jeff
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The paper images (text in prior entries):
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Press1.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Press2.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Press3.jpg)
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"Farm Field Yields Bomb" !! :o
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SHICKSHINNY!
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That is very cool Mel.
I mean the Harry Caul part and not so much the bomb in the field.
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SHICKSHINNY!
What is shickshinny?
LOL
I like the sound of it, tho.
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Jay you are forgetting how Heritage operates. The $90,000 bid doesn't matter if there is a hidden reserve. If there is one, and $200,000 is the minimum, you will see once the reserve is applied that the bid is now miraculously $200,000 (even if noone has bid that amount).
And the $30,000 total cost WAS discussed here...
Still thanks for sharing the article.
I'm not sure you really understand "how Heritage operates" at all. I think you may be listening to some folks who believe they have a lot to gain by posting mis-information, as is frequently done.
We do not post a reserve above the minimum poster estimate. We have never done that nor do we do that. Could there possibly be an instance where a reserve was missed and placed later? Perhaps, but very, very rare. Of 160,000 lots sold, maybe 3 or 4 lots!
The items from Berwick have no reserves other than those which they have opened or have not opened with now. There will be no other reserves placed on those items.
Now, that being said, once all reserves are posted in a few days you'll no doubt find that only about 120 items have a reserve above the one half of the low estimate where they stand now! That is a very, very low number of reserved items when you realize that all of the rest of this great material is not reserved above one half of the low estimate! A ton of deals will be had. And you'll never be able to partake without bidding.
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I'm not sure you really understand "how Heritage operates" at all. I think you may be listening to some folks who believe they have a lot to gain by posting mis-information, as is frequently done.
We do not post a reserve above the minimum poster estimate. We have never done that nor do we do that. Could there possibly be an instance where a reserve was missed and placed later? Perhaps, but very, very rare. Of 160,000 lots sold, maybe 3 or 4 lots!
The items from Berwick have no reserves other than those which they have opened or have not opened with now. There will be no other reserves placed on those items.
Now, that being said, once all reserves are posted in a few days you'll no doubt find that only about 120 items have a reserve above the one half of the low estimate where they stand now! That is a very, very low number of reserved items when you realize that all of the rest of this great material is not reserved above one half of the low estimate! A ton of deals will be had. And you'll never be able to partake without bidding.
Thanks for the post Grey.
But am I not correct in saying that IF there is a reserve on an item, it will become the current bid (regardless of any lower bids placed before) once the reserves are revealed/applied?
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here is a question that I have.
Unless someone has the finances to actually bid on such posters as a Dracula, Public Enemy or Ten Cents a Dance, why do any of them care what the reserve price is going to be on such posters??
I completely understand the interest in knowing what the reserve is on something you are going to bid on, or what the final price is on something you won't bid on (yes we were keenly interested in what the BOF teaser would sell for - but it didn't of course). The rest is just gossip for gossip's sake IMO
That said, I have no doubt that the Dracula poster & most if not all of the Berwick posters will actually sell next week when they hit the auction block.
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here is a question that I have.
Unless someone has the finances to actually bid on such posters as a Dracula, Public Enemy or Ten Cents a Dance, why do any of them care what the reserve price is going to be on such posters??
I completely understand the interest in knowing what the reserve is on something you are going to bid on, or what the final price is on something you won't bid on (yes we were keenly interested in what the BOF teaser would sell for - but it didn't of course). The rest is just gossip for gossip's sake IMO
That said, I have no doubt that the Dracula poster & most if not all of the Berwick posters will actually sell next week when they hit the auction block.
I don't think this is about "gossip" at all.
There are many collectors on this board from all walks of life.
This thread just might be the most 'definitive' account of this discovery available anywhere on the internet.
It just stands to reason that we all -- whether we are bidding or not -- are interested in the perceived minimal value HA has placed on these posters.
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This might be shocking news to some people but I think that this a forum about movie posters.
laugh1
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Ted.. most of the other subjects about the Berwick discovery have been fairly interesting, but that isn't what I asked.. My question was very specific:
Unless someone has the finances to actually bid on such posters as a Dracula, Public Enemy or Ten Cents a Dance, why do any of them care what the reserve price is going to be on such posters??
Myself, while I find all the main information about this deal great stuff, this one aspect is of no importance. To me, it is obvious they are all for sale at one time because the consignor wants to make his money now. Grey is one of the smartest poster people in this business (which is why Heritage does $10mil+ in poster sales every year) and I am certain that he would council the consignor on what prices these posters should sell for and any smart seller trying to get his profits out is going to listen.
As I said, I have no doubt that most if not all of these posters will sell and I am certain the Dracula will sell because it is obvious that the reserve is $100k (half the low estimate) or if it is higher.. it isn't much higher. The poster will sell, and the final price is the important figure, not any supposed reserve.
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I am certain the Dracula will sell because it is obvious that the reserve is $100k (half the low estimate) or if it is higher.. it isn't much higher.
The Nicolas Cage one sold for around $300,000 so I don't understand why the estimate on this ($100,000 is what I am seeing) is so low compared to that. It's the same exact poster and design...my only thinking is maybe because at the time the other one sold it was the only known copy, but now that this one has shown up there are two known copies and the people bidding on this copy will have in mind that one other exists? Can ONE other known copy make that much impact on value? jawdrop
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there are more than 2 copies of this poster Juli
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there are more than 2 copies of this poster Juli
Of the exact design? I thought this design there were only 2. Must be mixed up with a different poster.
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In my mind the only valid use of a reserve is to set a maximum price where the seller would rather keep it. Any other game is like riverboat gambling or soybean futures.
I am much more concerned with the hammer price, because that is going to trickle down and affect prices on posters I can actually afford.
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Ted.. most of the other subjects about the Berwick discovery have been fairly interesting, but that isn't what I asked.. My question was very specific:
Myself, while I find all the main information about this deal great stuff, this one aspect is of no importance. To me, it is obvious they are all for sale at one time because the consignor wants to make his money now. Grey is one of the smartest poster people in this business (which is why Heritage does $10mil+ in poster sales every year) and I am certain that he would council the consignor on what prices these posters should sell for and any smart seller trying to get his profits out is going to listen.
As I said, I have no doubt that most if not all of these posters will sell and I am certain the Dracula will sell because it is obvious that the reserve is $100k (half the low estimate) or if it is higher.. it isn't much higher. The poster will sell, and the final price is the important figure, not any supposed reserve.
Rich, we care because it is interesting. And, personally, I want to understand how Heritage "works" since apparently I am ignorant.
Did YOU know the reserve was actually 1/2 the low estimate before Grey posted about that? Does HA disclose this fact blatantly anywhere in their auctions?
Obviously the final price is the important price. But the discussion was on the Dracula being at $90,000. If the bidder is ignorant (yes there is an argument that someone REALLY bidding $90,000 should know the ins and outs of HA's policies) they may think they actually have the high bid. But then the reserve is applied and boom the low bid is now the reserve price (which is actually not a true bid at all!)
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Did YOU know the reserve was actually 1/2 the low estimate before Grey posted about that? Does HA disclose this fact blatantly anywhere in their auctions?
I believe they do indeed have such information posted publicly and Grey has also stated so clearly many times on MoPo etc.
the reserves (if any) are usually 1/2 the low estimate although for some items they have been a higher %
admittedly, I actually do business with Heritage and have for almost a decade, so I do indeed know how thier auctions work.
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The Nicolas Cage one sold for around $300,000 so I don't understand why the estimate on this ($100,000 is what I am seeing) is so low compared to that. It's the same exact poster and design...my only thinking is maybe because at the time the other one sold it was the only known copy, but now that this one has shown up there are two known copies and the people bidding on this copy will have in mind that one other exists? Can ONE other known copy make that much impact on value? jawdrop
One of the reasons estimates are lower than past sales is because past sales include the 20% buyers premium. The Nic Cage poster sold for $310k, which actually means the top bid was around $250k -- much closer to the Berwick estimate.
Other reasons why the previous poster may ultimately sell at a higher price could be name recognition of the owner or the fact that the Berwick poster was missing the lower border.
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Other reasons why the previous poster may ultimately sell at a higher price could be .... or the fact that the Berwick poster was missing the lower border.
Harry.. seriously.. anyone interested in this poster, does not care that the blank bottom border was replaced, and it will hardly be an obstacle to any bid from any prospective bidder
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Rich... seriously... I realize this poster is uber rare and that condition is less of an issue. I never said collectors would shun it. I just stated reasons why the estimate may be lower. This poster could very well outsell the Nic Cage poster due to rarity alone. It all depends on who the top two bidders are.
However, to think that a buyer of a $300,000 poster doesn't care at all about the pre-restoration condition would be foolish. From what we know so far, the condition is really nice.... minus the bottom border.
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no player for this poster will be complaining about the bottom border because the image area was virtually complete except for minor digs etc.
the results will have nothing to do with the bottom border at all, whatever the results are.
There are only a few copies. That means only a few people can own one.
Those people who would go after this poster will go after the poster and play seriously
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Ok Rich, I give up. You are right, condition doesn't matter when spending $300,000. eyeroll
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Ok Rich, I give up. You are right, condition doesn't matter when spending $300,000. eyeroll
Harry.. IT'S THE BLANK BOTTOM FERQIN BORDER
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Harry.. IT'S THE BLANK BOTTOM FERQIN BORDER
Rich it's still a less than complete poster. If you have an option between a complete one and one that has had the bottom border recreated for the same
price which would you choose?
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I believe they do indeed have such information posted publicly and Grey has also stated so clearly many times on MoPo etc.
the reserves (if any) are usually 1/2 the low estimate although for some items they have been a higher %
admittedly, I actually do business with Heritage and have for almost a decade, so I do indeed know how thier auctions work.
Why state it on MoPo and not in the auction itself?
Your last statement also explains why you are so quick to defend Grey and HA (but you need to realize no one is accusing HA of anything - just discussing the reality of their reserve practices!) ;)
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Rich it's still a less than complete poster. If you have an option between a complete one and one that has had the bottom border recreated for the same
price which would you choose?
Chris
this isn't a Goldfinger one sheet
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Chris
this isn't a Goldfinger one sheet
Who wants a Goldfinger one sheet?
I understand what you are saying Rich but still - condition DOES matter regardless of rarity.
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Your last statement also explains why you are so quick to defend Grey and HA (but you need to realize no one is accusing HA of anything - just discussing the reality of their reserve practices!) ;)
Chris.. I have come to the side of a number of people at various times, generally when I think they are being unfairly criticised or attacked. These people include Bruce, Heritage, Jeannie, Lumi on MoPo and others. It's also because I work in front of a computer most of the day & am frequently looking to take a minute or two off from listing auctions & answering emails. But it's mostly because these are public boards, and sometimes, I have the fastest answers..... and why do you call it "defend"?
If you're discussing something in a studious fashion, there are no attacks and therefore no defenses. Of course, many people do attack, rather than look for the real answers, which are all over the websites from which you question. The research is there if you choose to avail yourself of it.
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Who wants a Goldfinger one sheet?
I understand what you are saying Rich but still - condition DOES matter regardless of rarity.
you guys are hopeless.
moron1
when you can find a Dracula poster in every comic book shop for a cheap price, then it will become important. If you're talking about an elite item, the comment just isn't valid.
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Chris.. I have come to the side of a number of people at various times, generally when I think they are being unfairly criticised or attacked. These people include Bruce, Heritage, Jeannie, Lumi on MoPo and others. It's also because I work in front of a computer most of the day & am frequently looking to take a minute or two off from listing auctions & answering emails. But it's mostly because these are public boards, and sometimes, I have the fastest answers..... and why do you call it "defend"?
If you're discussing something in a studious fashion, there are no attacks and therefore no defenses. Of course, many people do attack, rather than look for the real answers, which are all over the websites from which you question. The research is there if you choose to avail yourself of it.
I used "defend" as it appears you felt HA was being attacked.
Rich, let the "accused" answer for themselves.
And why not make the information/research far more transparent?
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you guys are hopeless.
moron1
when you can find a Dracula poster in every comic book shop for a cheap price, then it will become important. If you're talking about an elite item, the comment just isn't valid.
Rich, how many of this style Dracula are extant? 5 or something?
Are you asserting that they are ALL worth the exact same regardless of their actual relative conditions just because only 5 exist?
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I used "defend" as it appears you felt HA was being attacked.
Rich, let the "accused" answer for themselves.
And why not make the information/research far more transparent?
Chris... it is an open forum for all to answer.. if you want answers from Grey Smith, why don't you email him directly, rather than try to embarrass Heritage in public?? Posts to a public forum get answered by anyone end everyone wishing to comment
:P
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Rich, how many of this style Dracula are extant? 5 or something?
Are you asserting that they are ALL worth the exact same regardless of their actual relative conditions just because only 5 exist?
it doesn't matter how many exist even.. How many can you buy if you can pay the ticket?
the answer: just the one Heritage is auctioning
and Chris.. the Heritage information is indeed transparent.. again, you just have to read the information Heritage has on their website & usually all these questions are answered. They are not secrets
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Chris... it is an open forum for all to answer.. if you want answers from Grey Smith, why don't you email him directly, rather than try to embarrass Heritage in public?? Posts to a public forum get answered by anyone end everyone wishing to comment
:P
Agreed Rich.
But I, and anyone else, can ask Grey (or is it Gray as per the news article?) questions here as he has posted comments here.
Others seemed to have the same questions I did - hence the public inquiry...
You can post any comments/rebuttals you wish (just as others can) but from there anyone else can rebut/question your comments.
How's that for double-speak at its finest! ;)
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it doesn't matter how many exist even.. How many can you buy if you can pay the ticket?
the answer: just the one Heritage is auctioning
But I can buy it online can't I? Or do I need to show up in Dallas in person with my funky Canadian dollars?
Want to go halfsies (or is it halvsies)? ;)
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it doesn't matter how many exist even.. How many can you buy if you can pay the ticket?
the answer: just the one Heritage is auctioning
And that still doesn't mean condition is unimportant just because only 1 is currently for sale...
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Want to go halfsies (or is it halvsies)? ;)
no.. I want it all to myself
uhno
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Agreed Rich.
But I, and anyone else, can ask Grey (or is it Gray as per the news article?) questions here as he has posted comments here.
Others seemed to have the same questions I did - hence the public inquiry...
You can post any comments/rebuttals you wish (just as others can) but from there anyone else can rebut/question your comments.
How's that for double-speak at its finest! ;)
I wasn't the one asking why you were answering
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no.. I want it all to myself
uhno
Figures. But it IS a Chandler though >:(
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from now on I will decide who asks and who answers, OK?
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from now on I will decide who asks and who answers, OK?
Hey this isn't NS4 your lordship ;)
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FARK, wrong sandpit.
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FARK, wrong sandpit.
Can I keep your shovel though? Rich has piled up a lot of shit in here... ;)
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Rich has piled up a lot of shit in here... ;)
your comment is a total crock of shit..
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your comment is a total crock of shit..
How much shit can a crock fit exactly Rich?
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How much shit can a crock fit exactly Rich?
it's your crock, it should be easy to measure. You can maybe look at the packaging
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and I forgot this:
:P
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Time to move on. This shit stinks...
(http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/crock.jpg)(http://images.asadart.com/sources/com/halloweenexpress/images/imagecache/404-768-gc7222.jpg)
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Rich, how many of this style Dracula are extant? 5 or something?
Are you asserting that they are ALL worth the exact same regardless of their actual relative conditions just because only 5 exist?
We go back again that this is an auction. The 'value' of the other 2-3 copies is irrelevant. They are not for sale, and it will likely be some time before they are again for sale. Thus the 'value' is what 2 premiere collectors who want an extremely rare iconic poster are willing to pay. The poster has been restored and displays well. It will go for a surprisingly high price because somebody simply has to have this as the crown to their collection.
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from now on I will decide who asks and who answers, OK?
Viva la revolution!!
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from now on I will decide who asks and who answers, OK?
laugh1
Viva la revolution!!
laugh1
Meet the new boss...
Seriously now... If this is no longer an open forum, someone does indeed need to post a list of topics that are allowed to be discussed ...and also if any of those topics has a disagreement involved which side of the arguement we are allowed to be on.
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Seriously now... If this is no longer an open forum, someone does indeed need to post a list of topics that are allowed to be discussed ...and also if any of those topics has a disagreement involved which side of the arguement we are allowed to be on.
I suggest we limit our discussions to cool posters and hot chicks. wynk
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Zorba
You can post anything you want, as long as you agree with those who shout the loudest, and as long as you don't mind being flamed when you accidentally disagree.
Bruce
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I suggest we limit our discussions to cool posters and hot chicks. wynk
That sounds like my kind of forum... :D
Double Talk Chris....?? I have no idea what your talking about, I have no idea what your talking about...
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I suggest we limit our discussions to cool posters and hot chicks. wynk
That sounds like my kind of forum... :D
cheers
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That sounds like my kind of forum... :D
Double Talk Chris....?? I have no idea what your talking about, I have no idea what your talking about...
hitself
Mission accomplished
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Chris, the reserve being one half of the LOW estimate has been a Heritage policy or "operation" for a number of years. As mentioned, all but approximately 120 lots will open at one half of the low estimate in the auction and most will indeed sell.
ALL of the BERWICK material in UNRESERVED as I have previously said. The estimate on the Dracula one sheet is $150K-250K. It has opened at $75K and will indeed sell. When an item is called unreserved, that means No Reserve will be posted. Why was it valued like that? Because the goal is to sell the material, not to have beautiful items in auction that pass or do not sell.
When material is given to me for a Signature auction one of my jobs is to try and help the consignor set a value with which to offer the material. Very, very few consignors wish to offer quality material for Signature auction that will open at $1, though there are lots in this auction that do! I do my very best to help the consignor determine a rate we can offer the material in which it will sell and yet they will not have the risk of selling the item for pennies on the dollar. Usually that is by offering the item at an opeining bid of 50% of the low estimate, which I often believe is a totally reasonable, if not incredibly low price but we know with many active bidders the item has a strong likelihood of selling for more than that opening bid. Certainly not always and great deals are often had!
We usually sell 90% of our MP auctions, if not a good bit more, and that is because the buyers will participate to acquire the items. We receive the best material as our consignors know we will offer them a venue in which the most people will see the material and those buyers will participate. We offer a full color catalog which consignors, collectors and bidders love to see and we offer them visibility on a site which is one of the top 3000 websites in the world! Last month alone we received 725,000 unique visitors. Our nearest competition, Christie's received about 225,000 unique visitors for the same time frame. In each auction we get far, far less than 1% return as our buyers have learned that we estimate where they have an opportunity to add to their collection and we describe and grade accurately.
Someone asked if the previous copy of Dracula we sold would be more valuable due to the fact that it was completely intact and yet this copy was missing a bottom border. This copy has more vibrant colors throughout! So the trade off for the missing bottom border is the brighter colors and is really a pretty close trade off for the poster being completely intact, in my opinion.
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Some confusion may have been created too, by various news articles, like this AP article on Fox, that stated the starting bid for Dracula would be $200K. I reads as tho, once any reserves were made known, the minimum bid amount would suddenly be pushed to that number and the bid at the time this article appeared ($90K) would be tossed out:
"James Cagney, Jean Harlow, Douglas Fairbanks Jr. and Barbara Stanwyck are among the matinee idols gracing several posters but Bela Lugosi, bug-eyed and menacing in the 1931 ad for horror classic "Dracula," counts as the star of the auction with a starting bid of $200,000."
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/03/12/trove-valuable-rare-movie-posters-found-glued-together-going-to-auction/
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Simply, a misquote or mistake in the reporting.
That never happens does it?!
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Never at Fox News anyway.
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Has anyone ordered both catalogues for this auction from the HA website? I just tried but got confused with the costs... I selected it and the total shown was $25 + $25 for the catalogue (not sure if both signature and Berwick catalogues are included in this) + $25 P&P making a total of $75. Am I doing something wrong or is that the price?
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Has anyone ordered both catalogues for this auction from the HA website? I just tried but got confused with the costs...
WOW! They charge for the catalog? I never knew that.
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I have never paid for a catalog & got them even before I ever bid on anything, although that could be because until I stopped exhibiting at SDCC, Heritage had their booths across from my own for 3 or so years, but I'm sure nice people who ask Grey will get happy packages in the mail.
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Has anyone ordered both catalogues for this auction from the HA website? I just tried but got confused with the costs... I selected it and the total shown was $25 + $25 for the catalogue (not sure if both signature and Berwick catalogues are included in this) + $25 P&P making a total of $75. Am I doing something wrong or is that the price?
If that's true, this is ludicrous...
Spend $50,000 on these posters but pay $25+ for the catalogue first eyeroll
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Never at Fox News anyway.
It was an AP story.Fox and many other online news outlets have carried this same article. ;)
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I have no issue paying for the catalogues (I'm sure they're great quality)... I'm registered on HA but haven't won a poster yet. I was just confused with the $25 + $25 for the catalogue (unless that's for both of them, but it's not mentioned... why not just say $50?) and then $25 shipping (but if they're heavy can understand that too). Just wondered if anyone had bought them from the site and could confirm I haven't done something wrong!?
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Did anyone else post these yet? If so, please ignore but if not they add a little bit more info and some new pics:
HA Berwick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFvIjRjbrXU&feature=plcp&context=C49efaa0VDvjVQa1PpcFNnUG0BdLX0R4DsTrvARtMDflME5KbcQ_A=
Dracula
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAJ82-GTXfU&feature=plcp&context=C469d826VDvjVQa1PpcFNnUG0BdLX0R2LiHtSJwdKeQ6Fu41HMx2Q%3D
Maltese Falcon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b2sdLRsr5E&feature=plcp&context=C4078140VDvjVQa1PpcFNnUG0BdLX0Rxwz7P3KDCL18riUa7ATHeE%3D
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Thanks for those links, Chris.
I'm surprised Grey didn't post these videos here already... mesmrized
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Damn - I'm out of the game before it even got started - would have made a cool "conversation piece" - good news is that I won't be broke for the foreseeable future....
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Lawyers.jpg)
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the buyer of the collection is already well in the black
bids on this material is North of $260,000 as of this moment
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Most of them are in their estimate range. Dracula is struggling right now but that likely will change. Cimarron (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotNo=83003) is the star so far, almost double its top estimate before live bidding begins. Public Enemy Style A seems to be stuck at its bottom estimate, perhaps because of the heavy restoration....
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The Dracula poster alone put the buyer into the black, the moment it was discovered and peeled off of the stack, (and in that condition), last Fall. clap
Everything else from the Berwick Find is like added icing on the cake. The buyer took a chance and won. I can only imagine what he /she is feeling at this very moment, with about an hour to go before bidding begins!
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The Dracula poster alone put the buyer into the black, the moment it was discovered and peeled off of the stack, (and in that condition), last Fall. clap
Everything else from the Berwick Find is like added icing on the cake. The buyer took a chance and won. I can only imagine what he /she is feeling at this very moment, with about an hour to go before bidding begins!
DRACULA currently stands at $110,000.00 (with the added 19.5% BP, it would bring it to $131,450.00 if it sold right now). Will this current copy get close (or surpass) the previous auction sale price of $310,000.00? (this final number includes the 19.5% BP, as well).
If one looks at just the hammer price of the previous copy sold (before the BP was added), it went for about $259,500.00.
It will be fascinating to see how this most recent copy fares!
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Is there a live video feed of the auction anywhere? I just read about Heritage live but that looks like it's just for real people who have money and want to bid... not cheapskate popcorn munching voyeurs like me! pcorn
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Is there a live video feed of the auction anywhere? I just read about Heritage live but that looks like it's just for real people who have money and want to bid... not cheapskate popcorn munching voyeurs like me! pcorn
You can load up the live feed whether you are bidding or not. Beware of the big red button though... so pretty, so tempting...
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Yeah, good thing they have a DISABLE LIVE BIDDING button ;D
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well surprised what the Drac hammered at.
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DRACULA just went for only $120,000.00. ($143,400.00 with the BP)
Quite a difference from the previous copy sold.
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well surprised what the Drac hammered at.
same here.
Disabling that red button is a great idea btw.
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DRACULA just went for only $120,000.00. ($143,400.00 with the BP)
Quite a difference from the previous copy sold.
My first thought was wow that went cheap ...My next thought was that 143 k is a lot of money for a movie poster.
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My first thought was wow that went cheap ...My next thought was that 143 k is a lot of money for a movie poster.
Agree--just talking in comparison to the 310K. ;)
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Agree--just talking in comparison to the 310K. ;)
I know. That was my initial wow. The auctioneer made that one last longer then he has the rest. 130? 130 ? 130?
The other posters arent doing so bad...41, 55, 59, 101 .....
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It seemed like the auctioneer didn't want to drop the hammer on the Dracula auction. He kept asking and asking and asking.
"At 120, need 130....130....only 120,000 right now, need 130,000....please......someone, anyone, 130,000.....just 130.....anyone?...........ok, so we're at 120 need 130....."
hahah. I guess he thought it would go higher too.
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You can load up the live feed whether you are bidding or not. Beware of the big red button though... so pretty, so tempting...
Haha Mrs AP was getting nervous reading this! Thanks for letting us know about the disable live bidding button enki ;D
Does the price for the Dracula stem from the 'dipped in paint' effect of all the restoration?
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One of the real surprises was CIMARRON. It had an estimate of $12-18K and sold for 85,000.00 (101,575.00 with thr BP). :o
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The high Cimmaron price largely makes up the low price for the Drac. Maybe they overpromoted Public Enemy and underplayed Drac....
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Thanks for letting us know about the disable live bidding button enki ;D
Np, it's the first thing I did after loading the page.
As Harry said, the two big red BID buttons were too scary for me.
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One of the real surprises was CIMARRON. It had an estimate of $12-18K and sold for 85,000.00 (101,575.00 with thr BP). :o
Somebody is doing well today.
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It's too bad that you can't see a video of the audience. I wonder how many people are there, etc.
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The high Cimmaron price largely makes up the low price for the Drac. Maybe they overpromoted Public Enemy and underplayed Drac....
I agree looking at the Cimmaron that it will all add up very well for them.
Wonder if selling them all in the same auction spread the cash out more?
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A lot of times when the auctioneer begs and begs for another bid it is because a house bidder is the high bidder and they want it to sell elsewhere.
That may not be the case at all here, but with secret bidders there is no way of ever knowing, unless someone reveals who bought it.
Bruce
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Haha Mrs AP was getting nervous reading this! Thanks for letting us know about the disable live bidding button enki ;D
Does the price for the Dracula stem from the 'dipped in paint' effect of all the restoration?
Or maybe the restored bottom border came into play.
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Personally, I think that they did incredibly well overall, given the amount of restoration and the fact that many were from lesser titles.
Congratulations to Heritage!
Bruce
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The high Cimmaron price largely makes up the low price for the Drac. Maybe they overpromoted Public Enemy and underplayed Drac....
The fact that the entire collection was purchased for about 30K, means that the sale of Little Caesar alone made the owner his money back. Everything else is pure profit (aside from things like restoration costs). thumbup
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A lot of times when the auctioneer begs and begs for another bid it is because a house bidder is the high bidder and they want it to sell elsewhere.
That may not be the case at all here, but with secret bidders there is no way of ever knowing, unless someone reveals who bought it.
Bruce
To me, he looked more confused and maybe a bit surprised that he wasnt getting that next bid than anything else.
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Personally, I think that they did incredibly well overall, given the amount of restoration and the fact that many were from lesser titles.
Congratulations to Heritage!
Bruce
What was the amount of restoration on the majority of these?
A week or so ago, a MOPO member posted a comment, in which he stated that he felt posters of this price range and rarity should all have been pictured in the catalog, in both their pre- and post- restorative states.
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One of the real surprises was CIMARRON. It had an estimate of $12-18K and sold for 85,000.00 (101,575.00 with thr BP). :o
We suspected the estimate on Cimarron was far too low to begin with.
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The entire Berwick Find realised a total sale of over $503,000.00.
Not bad for an initial $30K investment!!
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One of the real surprises was CIMARRON. It had an estimate of $12-18K and sold for 85,000.00 (101,575.00 with thr BP). :o
That didn't surprise me quite as much.
Sometimes when the Academy needs a title they go all out.
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That didn't surprise me quite as much.
Sometimes when the Academy needs a title they go all out.
True. And someone else wanted it almost as badly as The Academy, to drive it that high.
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As for Dracula I suspect it is a combination of the economy, the fact the bottom border was replaced and more importantly the fact it is not as unique as it used to be for this style.
And Bruce may be right that the Dracula topped out at the "house bid" despite what Grey says?
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The entire Berwick Find realised a total sale of over $503,000.00.
Not bad for an initial $30K investment!!
Now that is a great day at the office.
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Now that is a great day at the office.
There is certainly going to be a ridiculous profit here but the seller fees, Heritage commission, restoration etc all needs to be taken off.
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There is certainly going to be a ridiculous profit here but the seller fees, Heritage commission, restoration etc all needs to be taken off.
Chris, HA charges a seller fee, in addition to their commission?
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As for Dracula I suspect it is a combination of the economy, the fact the bottom border was replaced and more importantly the fact it is not as unique as it used to be for this style.
Yeah, all those things put me down a bit, so my bid was little ;)
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Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "house bid"?
Heritage bids on it's own auctions? Or do you mean an employee?
Either way, isn't that a HUUUUUUUUUUGE conflict of interest?
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Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "house bid"?
Heritage bids on it's own auctions? Or do you mean an employee?
Either way, isn't that a HUUUUUUUUUUGE conflict of interest?
I think their terms and conditions permit it, right?
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Chris, HA charges a seller fee, in addition to their commission?
Yeah, I believe it's 15% (in addition to the 19.5% BP).
I actually did a long calculation in another thread a couple days ago comparing the cost to the seller at HA vs EMP in regards to BP and seller fees. Assuming the hammer price is the same (including BP), EMP wins every time.
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The seller commission fees for signature auctions are significantly less than normal auctions. Plus they're usually negotiated, perhaps in this case to zero.
The "house bidder" speculation is totally unsupported. The bidding started at $75K and there's no reason to believe the subsequent bids weren't legit.
My guess is that Uni Horror peaked several years ago and there are fewer $$$$ bidders playing....
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That was a quick edit Mel! ;D
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The "house bidder" speculation is totally unsupported. The bidding started at $75K and there's no reason to believe the subsequent bids weren't legit.
I agree. If they were caught bidding on their own auctions theyd have a bit of a problem.
I doubt they could use the much abused "I didnt know" defense.
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Yeah, I believe it's 15% (in addition to the 19.5% BP).
I actually did a long calculation in another thread a couple days ago comparing the cost to the seller at HA vs EMP in regards to BP and seller fees. Assuming the hammer price is the same (including BP), EMP wins every time.
Thanks, Chris.
Makes sense, that they would take or ask some sales fee, based on promotion, photography, selling etc. That is a good amount of work and is certainly worth something. I cant see all of that being done for free, can you?
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That Heritage "shill bidding" argument has been hashed out many times on this board and other boards.
One thing is for certain: The last guy who sued Heritage for shill bidding was just decimated legally. Had to publicly admit his allegations were false.
That said, Heritage did quickly erase the estimate range from the Drac poster listing. Not exactly a selling point for future consignments....
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Thanks, Chris.
Makes sense, that they would take or ask some sales fee, based on promotion, photography, selling etc. That is a good amount of work and is certainly worth something. I cant see all of that being done for free, can you?
<-- James :)
Certainly a sales fee is warranted. But they already get almost 20% (or more on <$70 items) from the buyer (which of course comes out of the seller's pocket too). Personally, I just think their rates are too high. The only way they would be justified is if they routinely bring in a higher selling price over other auction houses, which would more then make up for the fee to the seller.
Regarding photography though, I think HA does a horrible job on that front. Unless I'm missing something, their photos are ridiculously small, have bad lighting, bad colors, hide defects, etc. EMP and others do an exponentially better job.
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<-- James :)
Certainly a sales fee is warranted. But they already get almost 20% (or more on <$70 items) from the buyer (which of course comes out of the seller's pocket too). Personally, I just think their rates are too high. The only way they would be justified is if they routinely bring in a higher selling price over other auction houses, which would more then make up for the fee to the seller.
Regarding photography though, I think HA does a horrible job on that front. Unless I'm missing something, their photos are ridiculously small, have bad lighting, bad colors, hide defects, etc. EMP and others do an exponentially better job.
Small? You arent looking or clicking on the enlargement function, then. Every item they list can be clicked on to blow it up to a super size image that more than fills a computer screen, so that an item can be looked at and scanned closely.
Edit: Large scan removed. ;)
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GIANT Dracula you have ruined my screen! :P
Personally, I just think their rates are too high.
I agree James.
That bp has kept from bidding on or even watching quite a few posters. Its just a turn off.
I know that they have enough traffic (that traffic doesnt care about $14+) that they dont need to care bout what I think . ;D
They are doing very well today. This is an amazing line up they are selling. I really wanted that His Girl friday 3sht but I was $8365 short.
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Ok, so I'm definitely missing something regarding the pictures....
When I click the enlarged picture link, it brings me to a little window where I can zoom in and pan around, but not where I can get a full size blown up picture like you pasted in here.
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Ok, I figured it out. I need to turn off the Pan/Zoom function. Now I get the big blow up.
I retract my early comment about the size issue :P
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Nothing ever changes: The people who complain about Heritage are either hyper-competitors (Bruce) or people (Kerry, Chris) who have never actually bought anything from them. The people who actually deal with them think they're great and are repeat customers. Of course the buyer's fees are obnoxious, but it's just extra math.
As far as seller commission rates, who cares? If you think they're too high, don't consign to them.
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Nothing ever changes: The people who complain about Heritage are either hyper-competitors (Bruce) or people (Kerry, Chris) who have never actually bought anything from them.
and he collects daybills also... eyeroll
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For anyone to think that just because one hasnt bought from HA, is a reason to preclude (or criticize) them for making comments, asking questions or making observations (versus those who have purchased from them) is without merit.
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and he collects daybills also... eyeroll
You mean freaky lil' hobbit posters.... 8)
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Yeah, all those things put me down a bit, so my bid was little ;)
And it wasn't Argentinean ;)
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For anyone to think that just because one hasnt bought from HA, is a reason to preclude (or criticize) them for making comments, asking questions or making observations (just like those who have purchased from them) is without merit.
+1
From my standpoint, I never said I wouldn't buy anything from them. I just said I don't like their policies regarding fees. If they had something I really wanted, and I could afford it, I would buy from them.
It's similar to my feelings towards eBay/PayPal. I hate them. I despise their business tactics and the way they treat their customers. But I still reluctantly use them if I need to moron1.
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The people who actually deal with them think they're great and are repeat customers.
Disagree.
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Nothing ever changes: The people who complain about Heritage are either hyper-competitors (Bruce) or people (Kerry, Chris) who have never actually bought anything from them. The people who actually deal with them think they're great and are repeat customers. Of course the buyer's fees are obnoxious, but it's just extra math.
As far as seller commission rates, who cares? If you think they're too high, don't consign to them.
Mel - I have bought at least 3 things from Heritage (and another item I have posted about that originally came from there)
Your comment about repeat bidders/buyers and their opinions is far too encompassing and unfounded.
And you call yourself a defence lawyer eyeroll
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And it wasn't Argentinean ;)
I like to vary sometimes :D
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You mean freaky lil' hobbit posters.... 8)
Most of mine don't have giant hairy feet at least
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Mel - I have bought at least 3 things from Heritage (and another item I have posted about that originally came from there)
And you call yourself a defence lawyer eyeroll
Chris.
As you just pointed out and was just exemplified, no one is exempt from blowing factually incorrect smoke at times. cheers
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No fair that you all get to do it for free.
I have bought 10+ posters from them for the right to tell you all that the bp is rich buyer bullshit... Oh yeah and they ship slow too!
They are not the worst. They just are not the best.
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They are not the worst. They just are not the best.
That probably sums it up nicely
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Regarding HA, I wish they would at least differentiate between the bidders. I understand it's anonymous, but they could at least give them numbers or something. This way you could see if you were bidding against 1 or 5 other people. Or if you get into a bidding war with someone, they finally drop out, but someone else comes in, you would have no idea that you are now bidding against someone else. Etc.
Again, just my two cents while watching the live bidding.
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Well, actually in terms of auctions Bruce and Rich are the exceptions here.... every other big auction house I know of (HA included) charges both a consignment fee and a buyer's premium. Those places take a slightly higher percentage of the overall item, but it gives the impression of splitting it up -- some from the seller (consignment fee) and some from the buyer (BP). It's fairly common practice, even if it really does result in a lower return to the consignor. Of course, you have to take final auction values into account... some items Bruce sells for more, some items HA sells for more.
While on paper Bruce and Rich's consigment fees might technically be higher on paper, after the BP the math does seem to work out well for the consignor in the end. And by not charging a BP, they also attract a lot of us cheap skates who feel like a buyer's premium is unfair (wait, I'm paying you a premium to pay you money?). In reality though, I just factor in BP and bid like normal. I've bought slightly more from eMovie than HA, and I've actually never won anything from Rich -- but I wouldn't discriminate from any of them if they had a particular poster I was after at the moment. That said, I'm a deal hound and buy the majority of my posters from ebay and elsewhere...
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Ok, so I'm definitely missing something regarding the pictures....
When I click the enlarged picture link, it brings me to a little window where I can zoom in and pan around, but not where I can get a full size blown up picture like you pasted in here.
turn off pan & zoom & you get a large photo
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elsewhere...
There's that elusive location again. I tried to find it on Google earth and I ended up in the Pacific Ocean!
;)
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There's that elusive location again. I tried to find it on Google earth and I ended up in the Pacific Ocean!
;)
If you don't have issues with some water staining, you'll be fine
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If you don't have issues with some water staining, you'll be fine
Probably need a salvage license and a harpoon gun to defend myself from Matt as well...
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concerning the comment abut "dipped in paint" on the Dracula poster, I have it on good authority that this was absolutely positively not done as the poster did not need much restoration and cleaned up very well once it was washed & mounted. The other comment on the bottom border affecting the bid price is just foolishness. It is a blank border with minimal writing.. Anyone interested in spending $143k or more on such a poster is not concerned with this small piece of paper.
that said, whomever bought the poster got a superior bargain price that is not likely to happen again even if another copy of this copy came up for sale tomorrow, unless it's being sold by Kerry Haggard
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unless it's being sold by Kerry Haggard
;D
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I think we can all agree that the Heritage employees need to participate on these boards. "Silence breeds alienation." Also, Heritage comes off as very "corporate" and impersonal, which exposes them to trash-talking.
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I think we can all agree that the Heritage employees need to participate on these boards. "Silence breeds alienation." Also, Heritage comes off as very "corporate" and impersonal, which exposes them to trash-talking.
Mel.. I doubt Grey could make that much time. Bruce is here alot because he has 25 employees.
I'm here alot because work bores me and I have to take a break.
you people are all here alot because you have nothing else to do (or like me, you need to take a break)
alot of what gets said, hypothesized, claimed and otherwise is just gossip like a bunch of Old Ladies sitting around in a sewing circle. The facts on alot of this stuff is easily found without speculating incorrectly. Whether people choose to do research beforehand is a personal choice. Whether Grey or Bruce Carteron needs to participate is a matter of opinion, but such choice is left up to them.
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Chris.. I knew the statement regarding reserve prices was clearly placed on the Heritage website and just happened to notice it when looking at stuff to bid on.
it's at the bottom of each auction listing page as noted in this screen capture
(http://www.comic-art.com/temp/apf/heritage_statement.jpg)
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Or maybe the restored bottom border came into play.
That would have been a hell of an expensive one inch wide strip of fill paper, had that been the case. qip
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Perhaps I need to be updated on something. In the past, it was clearly in their terms of sales that the auction house and/or the consignors were allowed to bid on their own items. That is why I stated that a "house bidder" could have been the high bidder.
If their terms of sale have changed, then absolutely there is no way the high bidder could have been the house or the consignor. Have they changed? Perhaps one of the lawyers here (well versed in reading fine print) could examine them and report back.
Bruce
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I think the market has to be pretty deep to be able to absorb two examples of a $300k posters within a few years, I didn't find is very surprising that it ended up where it did.
It was nice to see that the Disney stuff seems to have finally found its level and is selling within estimates again.
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DeLuca showing what he bought on FB, "Public Enemy", "Little Caesar", "My Man Godfrey".
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Which PE? Book cover or the Cagney one?
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Which PE? Book cover or the Cagney one?
Book cover
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(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/DeLuca.jpg)
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Well made the trip up to Heritage. I have to say I these guys are pros at what they do. My first task was to arrive early and inspect the Dial M for Murder insert my main target. I had the catalog, a print out, and the poster on a table in front of me. None of them matched. The poster's color was superb, better than the cat or the computer. However both images poorly showed the piece of Scotch tape on one of the folds that was described nor the bleed through of a wax pencil described as smudges. After inspecting it in person and some discussion with my wife we decided to pass.
I would say that the guy helping was very friendly and polite and seemed to be in no hurry and wanted me to take my time all this an hour before the live auction. He asked if I was interested in anything else and I had two other Saturday targets and he gladly fetched thzm for viewing. Much to my surprise these were actually in much better condition than described. I will be bidding on both. We then went down for the live part to watch the Berwicks I met grey, very nice yet very professional and wished me luck. The Cimarron was a hot one with a room bidder as the underbidder. I loved how he held his number up until 90k, never putting it down when it started off at 30k... I tried to talk my wife into grabbing a low end Berwick but she didn't bite... I slammed the rest of my red bull and we left... I think the only way to buy $500+ posters is to go see them in person it made all the difference. I would have been pissed to drop that money on the dial m and then open it up... That's all for now, I hate typing on the kindle as I am in a hotel...
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DeLuca showing what he bought on FB, "Public Enemy", "Little Caesar", "My Man Godfrey".
The MY MAN GODFREY piece is a beauty, too! clap
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(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/DeLuca.jpg)
This is one of the things i dislike about FB...oohh your`e so cool,ooh wish it was me....I like..I like too...
I`m drooling...get a hanky dudes....
Stew
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Well made the trip up to Heritage. I have to say I these guys are pros at what they do.
That is very cool Charlie.
Good to know that they are indeed pros.
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Chris.. I knew the statement regarding reserve prices was clearly placed on the Heritage website and just happened to notice it when looking at stuff to bid on.
it's at the bottom of each auction listing page as noted in this screen capture
(http://www.comic-art.com/temp/apf/heritage_statement.jpg)
Don't really know if I accept that as "clearly placed" but fair enough. The statement still does not say anything about reserves though...
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DeLuca showing what he bought on FB, "Public Enemy", "Little Caesar", "My Man Godfrey".
:o
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Here are the final prices realized (inc. the BP), for the Berwick Find from Friday's HA auction (presented in alphabetical order):
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7247/7012069107_fd8a3a73fb_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7118/7012069207_a580e99353_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7195/7012069287_2c2f37e14b_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7044/7012069363_81ef143c7b_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7236/6865955322_7627262546_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7102/7012069493_4d7308be8e.jpg)
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It rally surprised that Maltese Falcon sold for so little...
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It rally surprised that Maltese Falcon sold for so little...
I considered bidding on it as it was selling at that level. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that I'm not a Dashiell Hammett collector. But it did sell incredibly cheap and the new owner will be very happy
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It rally surprised that Maltese Falcon sold for so little...
That's what I was thinking, specially since it is the only known copy. I'm sure the winning bidder will probably be able to resell it more lots more sometime in the future when the economy is better.
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It rally surprised that Maltese Falcon sold for so little...
Any thoughts on why you think it might have, Matt? Mostly to the current economy? (Although, others, like CIMARRON, did SO much better than it's high estimate of $18,000.00).
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It is definitely a great poster but I think its problem was that it was for the wrong Falcon movie.
This window Card for the Bogie version went for twice as much at $16,730 on the same day.
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f5%2f0%2f7550867.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b220x350%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
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It is definitely a great poster but I think its problem was that it was for the wrong Falcon movie.
This window Card for the Bogie version went for twice as much at $16,730 on the same day.
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f5%2f0%2f7550867.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b220x350%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
True, Zorba, but considering the rarity of the Berwick copy, and for those FALCON completists out there, this one of a kind piece would certainly have accentuated and been a highlight to an overall FALCON collection.
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True, Zorba, but considering the rarity of the Berwick copy, and for those FALCON completists out there, this one of a kind piece would certainly have accentuated and been a highlight to an overall FALCON collection.
I understand that and I tend to agree but we dont all think the same way....Some of us are crazier than others :P
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I understand that and I tend to agree but we dont all think the same way....Some of us are crazier than others :P
No doubt about that, too! wynk
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The sale has hit the national press, although I suppose Heritage wanted more national exposure BEFORE the sale.
Note the Drac went to an "anonymous overseas buyer"....
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Public.jpg)
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Note the Drac went to an "anonymous overseas buyer"....
I wonder if its being shipped to Romania?
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Note the Drac went to an "anonymous overseas buyer"....
Well I did miss that Hammer Dracula Quad.... ;)
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I wonder if its being shipped to Romania?
Ha-ha! That would be appropriate. I'm thinking Russian tycoon....
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Well I did miss that Hammer Dracula Quad.... ;)
My goodness, Paul, do you really believe you were robbed of the chance to buy that Dracula for a pittance? It sold for £10,000. The odds that any buyer of that caliber learned about it through this forum are rather small, don't you think? Plus you were going up against the likes of Marklawd. That was a dream....
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I agree with Mel..
I seriously doubt that the Mallam's auction was under the radar
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Mark Bailed out early in the bidding.... ;)
Still I'm Happy with my new 1sht...
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I wonder if its being shipped to Romania?
"Heritage Auction special delivery for M. Shreck...."
"Coming..."
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/CoronadoIII/Nosferatugif.gif)
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"Heritage Auction special delivery for M. Shreck...."
"Coming..."
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/CoronadoIII/Nosferatugif.gif)
Awesome! sm1
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My goodness, Paul, do you really believe you were robbed of the chance to buy that Dracula for a pittance? It sold for £10,000. The odds that any buyer of that caliber learned about it through this forum are rather small, don't you think? Plus you were going up against the likes of Marklawd.
...Mark Bailed out early in the bidding.... ;)
I didn't bid or even think about bidding on the Dracula quad at Mallam's - it was out of my league.
Mark
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I didn't bid or even think about bidding on the Dracula quad at Mallam's - it was out of my league.
I'll be darned.... even Mark has a league!!
;D
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Well I did miss that Hammer Dracula Quad.... ;)
This looks like it was never used! Beautiful!
(http://www.mallams.co.uk/sale_pics/12-03-17/150-ii.jpg)
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It is definitely a great poster but I think its problem was that it was for the wrong Falcon movie.
This window Card for the Bogie version went for twice as much at $16,730 on the same day.
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f5%2f5%2f0%2f7550867.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b220x350%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
AGREED
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I didn't bid or even think about bidding on the Dracula quad at Mallam's - it was out of my league.
Mark
I was just having a bit of Jollity with our U.S. friends Mark... :)
Jeff, where did you get that Dracula Quad pic from? are you the secret buyer....
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I was just having a bit of Jollity with our U.S. friends Mark... :)
Jeff, where did you get that Dracula Quad pic from? are you the secret buyer....
Too many folds to be a quad? Is that a quad Jeff?
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Too many folds to be a quad? Is that a quad Jeff?
It's a Quad Charlie, sometimes they had an extra fold, as to save on postage, the posters were sent with the F.O.H. Stills....
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Too many folds to be a quad? Is that a quad Jeff?
Hey Charlie..
Yes, that's the Quad from the Mallam's auction that went for 10,000.00 GBP!
Jeff
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More Berwick goodness, coming up in HA's March 2013 Signature Auction:
City Streets (Paramount, 1931); US OS:
(http://dyn2.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B9%2F5%2F2%2F3%2F9523320%5D%2Csizedata%5B450x2000%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D)
http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7072&lotIdNo=5016#Photo
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More Berwick goodness, coming up in HA's March 2013 Signature Auction:
(http://dyn2.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B9%2F5%2F2%2F3%2F9523320%5D%2Csizedata%5B450x2000%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D)
Meh...
But there is some nice stuff in their Signature auction
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That's far above a "meh" Mr. Rew ;)
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" Well, I'm blathering about probably the biggest find of early movie posters in recent history. Just remember, you read it first here folks...
Harry, I was just looking around at HA when came across the poster Jeff posted here earlier in HA. Little that I knew about the ''story''. So I went to a mission to learn about the Berwick discovery (well, don't ask why i didnt know about it earlier). And then I found this post in APF, and then I 'knew''...and it is incredibly... I am very sorry you didn't get them. Great posters, great story.
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Thanks. That means a lot. I don't think I'll ever live this one down...
As you can tell from my very first post, while I didn't know what exactly would be found in this stash, I knew it was going to be BIG. I couldn't tell you how much time I spent on IMDB trying to first figure out the release date range for the visible posters, then to determine which other big movies came out in the interim. Although admittedly it was just a guess, I even predicted (correctly :'() that Dracula could be in there.
It's funny, but I don't think many of the early responders to this thread quite grasped the magnitude of the find -- at least in the first page or two of posts -- until HA started listing them. For that matter, I'm not sure I even grasped it either until I saw them all in one place!
Oh well, I'm always out there searching for the next big find... And I'll be the first to admit that I've had a pretty great run on poster bargains so far. :)
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I'll be the first to admit that I've had a pretty great run on poster bargains so far. :)
I am sure will find something BIG soon Harry. Though it seems that you know where to look. I do my reasearch but I cannot call what i find poster bargains, you will have to tell me where do you find yours! :D
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And I'll be the first to admit that I've had a pretty great run on poster bargains so far. :)
moron1
And I don't think anyone fully appreciated the magnitude - not even the eventual successful bidder on the stacks (otherwise the final prices would have been even higher)
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you will have to tell me where do you find yours! :D
Sorry, not until I retire from collecting :)
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More Berwick goodness, coming up in HA's March 2013 Signature Auction:
City Streets (Paramount, 1931); US OS:
(http://dyn2.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B9%2F5%2F2%2F3%2F9523320%5D%2Csizedata%5B450x2000%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D)
http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7072&lotIdNo=5016#Photo
The above is a second copy of this OS from the Berwick Find to now be auctioned. The current OS looks great but had these initial damage issues that were addressed:
This particular example has had restoration to replace the right two inches of the image and numerous other cracks and small tears in the background. There were also a few holes in the black background but all of these issues have been addressed and the poster is now quite presentable.
By comparison, the copy auctioned in March, 2012, (image below) for $3107.00 (inc the BP), had these issues corrected:
(From HA's 2012 Description): This particular gem had tears in the borders, image area, and background, as well as a chip in the top right corner, and one over Cooper's left eye. These minor flaws have all been addressed by expert professional restoration.
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f4%2f7%2f9%2f7479793.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d)
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I will be happy with either poster, or any poster of this lot Though I agree that looking at the two pics one looks more red-ish than the other.
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Seeing this thread pop again is opening up old wounds... I just spent way too long re-reading it in its entirety.
:'(
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Seeing this thread pop again is opening up old wounds... I just spent way too long re-reading it in its entirety.
:'(
Matt - stop torturing yourself man! Go get a beer (so I can have one too and not feel like a bad alcoholic dad cheers) and reflect on all the other awesome discoveries you've made!
It might be small consolation but your initial finding of the collection for auction and posting about it here allowed us all to take part in it in a way. Probably something that would not and could not have happened if they had simply been smuggled off to Heritage...like I said it may not ease the wounds too much but I appreciate that I had a chance to "discover" the posters too as they were uncovered.
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Matt - stop torturing yourself man! Go get a beer (so I can have one too and not feel like a bad alcoholic dad cheers) and reflect on all the other awesome discoveries you've made!
It might be small consolation but your initial finding of the collection for auction and posting about it here allowed us all to take part in it in a way. Probably something that would not and could not have happened if they had simply been smuggled off to Heritage...like I said it may not ease the wounds too much but I appreciate that I had a chance to "discover" the posters too as they were uncovered.
+1 !!! ;D
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Matt - stop torturing yourself man! Go get a beer (so I can have one too and not feel like a bad alcoholic dad cheers) and reflect on all the other awesome discoveries you've made!
It might be small consolation but your initial finding of the collection for auction and posting about it here allowed us all to take part in it in a way. Probably something that would not and could not have happened if they had simply been smuggled off to Heritage...like I said it may not ease the wounds too much but I appreciate that I had a chance to "discover" the posters too as they were uncovered.
Hell, I'll have one myself too.
Raise your glasses and cheers to Dr. Caul -who will surely find more nice things in the future- cheers
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No worries, I had plenty to drink tonight cheers
So what's the deal... are these Berwick remnants? Doubles that they wanted to space out? Here is another one:
http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7072&lotIdNo=5010
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No worries, I had plenty to drink tonight cheers
So what's the deal... are these Berwick remnants? Doubles that they wanted to space out? Here is another one:
http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7072&lotIdNo=5010
I would say definitely Matt. These are probably the examples that were in lesser condition to begin with and required more extensive restoration.
Surprised no mention is made of them being part of the Berwick group though? Maybe the description will be updated before the auction...
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from the listing Chris:
From the Berwick Discovery.
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I would say definitely Matt. These are probably the examples that were in lesser condition to begin with and required more extensive restoration.
Surprised no mention is made of them being part of the Berwick group though? Maybe the description will be updated before the auction...
Chris, the CITY STREETS description does state "from the the Berwick Collection," in the last line.; it is not stated, though, in the TEN CENTS A DANCE description.
Seems this second TEN CENTS may not be from the Berwick group?
From http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7072&lotIdNo=5010:
This poster (one of two known copies) has had the upper and lower borders replaced and has also had airbrushing to all the borders. There were some tears in the image (primarily in the lower area going into the blue silhouette) and another in the upper border extending into the yellow background above Stanwyck's credit. There were numerous chips and surface abrasions within the right side of the image in the yellow background. All of these issues were addressed with professional restoration and the poster stands as an exquisite example of pre-Code advertising. Fine+ on Linen.
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from the listing Chris:
From the Berwick Discovery.
Yeah - wasn't clear - I was referring to the Ten Cents
I'd be suprised if the Ten Cents is also not from the Berwick group...
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Yeah - wasn't clear - I was referring to the Ten Cents
I'd be suprised if the Ten Cents is also not from the Berwick group...
+1 and +2
I didn't even look at the Cooper poster listing... I was busy throwing dimes at Barb.
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+1 and +2
I didn't even look at the Cooper poster listing... I was busy throwing dimes at Barb.
So how many dances did that add up to?
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Inflation is not being kind to Barb... I have $44.50 in my pocket.
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Inflation is not being kind to Barb... I have $44.50 in my pocket.
$44 makes you a rich man to me. :P
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Well, my babysitter is about to get $30 of that... simply so I could have some time to get work done >:(
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Well, my babysitter is about to get $30 of that... simply so I could have some time to get work done >:(
Just don't ask her how much for a dance and you'll be alright
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Harry..i just reread the entire thread and ended up having 7 beers doing that..it is a remarkable find that no one was really expecting at this late date..I was actually underbidder on a few..and I even feel bad about that so I can't imagine how ya feel..however it is noteworthy that these were saved and restored brilliantly ..for preservations sake it is good that they ended up where they did..now is it any small redemption, considering the haggard fiasco, that if indeed Jaime Mendez DID restore these...he earned back some brownie points? Harlowe's face looked competently executed AND that CIMARRON poster was excellent when it was finished..
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these types of finds are still happening
look at the attic find on ebay right now with the Doug Fairbanks posters
seller hisgoods4u who's been selling for months
Cory Glaberson is currently listing a new find of 20s-30s lobby cards with lots of rare pieces
last year I had a small such deal
they're still happening.......
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Very true..I guess in my minds eye I was thinking of the impact of those 2 Public enemy posters and the little caesar one sheet when I first saw them..Cory has some nice LaPlante lobbies that is true as well...couldn't he find some Keaton cards so I can drain my poster account? And have the pleasure of outbidding Morrie ..wishful thinking..Not many poster finds in the walls of my house on the west coast of Maui though!!
I guess all I have to add to the recent finds..I pulled a complete lobby card set of 8 1918 Shoulder arms Chaplin cards from a scrapbook..very nice shape too...and some kid with sticky fingers In 1931 ran off with a Sidewalks of New York buster Keaton title card..and I pried it from his cold dead hands ..
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One incredible find. And one fab story that Harry should be very proud of. Harry I don't want to read here that you are still in mourning for this nono. Hold your head high and your beer even higher (I will have a cocktail). A toast. I salute you.
Vamos, vamos, que ya habra mas.. pero no te los guardes todos para ti eh! ;)
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I guess all I have to add to the recent finds..I pulled a complete lobby card set of 8 1918 Shoulder arms Chaplin cards from a scrapbook..very nice shape too...and some kid with sticky fingers In 1931 ran off with a Sidewalks of New York buster Keaton title card..and I pried it from his cold dead hands ..
I'd love to see that all of those... but especially the Sidewalks fo New York title card!
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2 more from Berwick Discovery:
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/GirlHabit_zpsdb529754.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/GirlHabit_zpsdb529754.jpg.html)
And oddly, this poster from 1929:
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/Pitz_zpsb922710d.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/Pitz_zpsb922710d.jpg.html)
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I wonder how many more from this find will continue to trickle out via HA's future sig auctions.
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More stuff from Berwick.
"Vintage Movie Poster 1939 Trapped Confessions of a Nazi Spy
Nice vintage find. This movie poster/banner was found in the attic of the Berwick Theater. This poster is very unique."
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/110x75/NS4/01_zps7787c118.jpg)
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/110x75/NS4/02_zps2843e844.jpg)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Confessions-of-a-Nazi-Spy-Movie-Poster-Banner-material-1939-/360806733565?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5401c1d6fd (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Confessions-of-a-Nazi-Spy-Movie-Poster-Banner-material-1939-/360806733565?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5401c1d6fd)
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How unique is "very unique"?
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Very... :)
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Interesting...was this included in the original pre-HA auction with the stacks of pasted together Berwick posters? If not, I wonder how the seller came to possess it...
Of course it's nice but the asking price is ridiculous.
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Not sure how the seller got it, but he is from Berwick, Pennsylvania.
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GAH! Can't we just let this thread die a peaceful death :)
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Interesting...was this included in the original pre-HA auction with the stacks of pasted together Berwick posters? If not, I wonder how the seller came to possess it...
Of course it's nice but the asking price is ridiculous.
Sounds like this item was separate from the 'Berwick Find' poster stacks which were in a private home. Was it that this also just happens to be from Berwick, PA? Separate item, separate owner and story, most likely? ;)
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GAH! Can't we just let this thread die a peaceful death :)
I doubted to post in this thread to ensure your good health Matt.
Then I thought you didn't die after the posters in the find sold, so at least you must be stronger now, right? ;)
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Sounds like this item was separate from the 'Berwick Find' poster stacks which were in a private home. Was it that this also just happens to be from Berwick, PA? Separate item, separate owner and story, most likely? ;)
Oh right - missed the theatre attic vs. private home distinction. Someone needs to throw that banner in the washing machine
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Oh right - missed the theatre attic vs. private home distinction. Someone needs to throw that banner in the washing machine
You will have a new discovery when the wash and rinse cycle is done:
A handful of silk fibers, and the yellow fringe, stuck to the side of the washing machine drum. ;D
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One of the many amazing threads to read here on APF; especially for anyone newly joined.
GOOD historical/auction-related info, all the way around.
thumbup
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Or if you can keep bumping it just to make Harry cry...
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Or if you can keep bumping it just to make Harry cry...
UGH!
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Bump! And for all the newer newbies (and relating to back stories, histories of posters mentioned in the other thread), this is a fascinating read on the wonderful poster gems that were auctioned off by Heritage a short while back.
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Someone call Matt's cardiologist again... ;)
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Someone call Matt's cardiologist again... ;)
GoOn.gif
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Dr. Harry Matt Caul trying to dispose of the Berwick Beast:
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/4ef39cf9bf4da95bdb75580875633582/tumblr_mv3inkiedI1r0tytoo6_400.gif)
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You guys are being phallic
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You guys are being phallic
Are you saying they are being dicks?
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Are you saying they are being dicks?
(http://www.troll.me/images/toy-story/dicks-dicks-everywhere.jpg)
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To get back on track, has there been any word or indication that anything from the Berwick Discovery has yet to be auctioned by HA?
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To get back on track, has there been any word or indication that anything from the Berwick Discovery has yet to be auctioned by HA?
I would imagine there is nothing more than small items or duplicates remaining, if any
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Thanks, Rich.
cheers
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(http://www.troll.me/images/toy-story/dicks-dicks-everywhere.jpg)
Too many dicks ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wl_uQOABxg&list=RD9Wl_uQOABxg
http://www.youtube.com/v/85pY-6ziQMo
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;D ;D
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What a splendid tale. More than a few years ago I stumbled across some early Sherlock Holmes posters at an out of the way general auction sale. Absolutely no local interest - I couldn't believe my luck! But then, out of the corner of my eye, I recognised a prints and poster dealer. Surely not? This was nowhere near his local turf! My heart and chances sank immediately. It wasn't his neck of the woods but apparently he'd been visiting friends nearby and as he happened to notice the auction saleroom from the roadside, he decided to pull over for a quick look. I still wake up in a cold sweat from the terrible memory of it all...
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What a splendid tale. More than a few years ago I stumbled across some early Sherlock Holmes posters at an out of the way general auction sale. Absolutely no local interest - I couldn't believe my luck! But then, out of the corner of my eye, I recognised a prints and poster dealer. Surely not? This was nowhere near his local turf! My heart and chances sank immediately. It wasn't his neck of the woods but apparently he'd been visiting friends nearby and as he happened to notice the auction saleroom from the roadside, he decided to pull over for a quick look. I still wake up in a cold sweat from the terrible memory of it all...
you should have send someone to distract him, put some laxatives in his drink, and wait for the magic...
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If I could have picked between him running to the loo and me running out of luck, I eagerly would have chosen the former!
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;)
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you should have send someone to distract him, put some laxatives in his drink, and wait for the magic...
laugh1 laugh1
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cheers
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What a splendid tale. More than a few years ago I stumbled across some early Sherlock Holmes posters at an out of the way general auction sale. Absolutely no local interest - I couldn't believe my luck! But then, out of the corner of my eye, I recognised a prints and poster dealer. Surely not? This was nowhere near his local turf! My heart and chances sank immediately. It wasn't his neck of the woods but apparently he'd been visiting friends nearby and as he happened to notice the auction saleroom from the roadside, he decided to pull over for a quick look. I still wake up in a cold sweat from the terrible memory of it all...
I think this tale is worth a double monocle.gif monocle.gif
Your pain is felt there, monocle.
crying
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All sympathy much appreciated. You know, I think this topic might be worth it's own subject heading!
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I read this thread all the way through the other night. What a wonderful find.
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Cimarron (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7055&lotNo=83003) is the star so far, almost double its top estimate before live bidding begins.
Cimarron is coming up for auction again.. i assume same HA poster...I wonder if it will do better than in 2012.... faint2.gif
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Cimarron is coming up for auction again.. i assume same HA poster...I wonder if it will do better than in 2012.... faint2.gif
I think the Berwick copy is or was listed on eBay recently too...
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I think the Berwick copy is or was listed on eBay recently too...
When abouts was this, Chris? A month (or more) ago?
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When abouts was this, Chris? A month (or more) ago?
It's back again - but I am just guessing it is the Berwick due to the fact it was missing some of the borders pre-restoration:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1931-CIMARRON-ORIGINAL-US-ONE-SHEET-MOVIE-POSTER-BUY-IT-NOW-OR-BEST-OFFER-/331560090491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d32857b7b
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Actually looks like I am wrong. This poster has the same restoration description but HA does not mention it as also being from Berwick group:
http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/western/cimarron-rko-1931-one-sheet-27-x-415-/a/7094-83197.s
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I've only just started going thru the HA Sig items for this coming weekend.
Are there any Berwick items in this go-around?
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You just had to rip the bandaid off again Jeff, didn't you? 😎
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I know this must hurt Matt but it's an incredible story.
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Wow, great stories in this thread thumbsup.gif
The Provost Royal Theater was particularly interesting as I was born in Edmonton and moved to Calgary when I was 18 where I lived until I came to Japan.
So after digging a bit, I found out that Sol Candel closed his store in Calgary in March 2015
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/curtain-set-to-fall-on-calgarys-iconic-movie-poster-shop (http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/curtain-set-to-fall-on-calgarys-iconic-movie-poster-shop)
And he tells the whole tale of the Royal Theater in an interview with Andrew Rawls (who has been mentioned in this forum before) in March 2016
http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1013?articleID=176164 (http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1013?articleID=176164)
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And he tells the whole tale of the Royal Theater in an interview with Andrew Rawls (who has been mentioned in this forum before) in March 2016
http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1013?articleID=176164 (http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1013?articleID=176164)
Thanks for the link to this interview - had not come across it before
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Wow, great stories in this thread thumbsup.gif
The Provost Royal Theater was particularly interesting as I was born in Edmonton and moved to Calgary when I was 18 where I lived until I came to Japan.
So after digging a bit, I found out that Sol Candel closed his store in Calgary in March 2015
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/curtain-set-to-fall-on-calgarys-iconic-movie-poster-shop (http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/curtain-set-to-fall-on-calgarys-iconic-movie-poster-shop)
And he tells the whole tale of the Royal Theater in an interview with Andrew Rawls (who has been mentioned in this forum before) in March 2016
http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1013?articleID=176164 (http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1013?articleID=176164)
Interesting pieces to read there, Devin. Sad to see that that movie poster shop is closing. :'(
Thanks for sharing them. cheers
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My pleasure Chris and Jeff ;D
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Because it was a live, onsite auction and the auctioneer doesn't even have a working website!
http://patriotantiqueandauctioncenter.com/
The greatest thread in APF history, largely thanks to Matt! woohoo
I wrote up this story, getting most of the info from this thread on MPC:
http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories.html (http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories.html)
Here are some before/after photos:
(http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories_files/005vcq.jpg)
(http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories_files/Reaching.jpg)
(http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories_files/Little-Ceas.jpg)
(http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories_files/Crim-Code.jpg)
(http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories_files/Crim-Code2.jpg)
The superstar finds (after restoration):
(http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories_files/lf-1.jpg)
(http://moviepostercollectors.guide/Stories_files/lf-3.jpg)
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Grey provides the 'real' story on the Berwick discovery? I had assumed that the posters were found as insulation (glued in small stacks at Matt outlined) - but he says here that he believes they were initially used as signage glued together on a board. I guess it is still possible the boards were placed with the posters attached as insulation...
From the most recent Intelligent Collector and speaking about the Cimarron one sheet specifically:
This gorgeous poster from one of the first Academy Award-winning films was found in a small home, glued to a board with other 1930s-era posters. The boards had been exhibited outside of a theater, we believe, in freestanding sandwich-board fashion, with one poster glued on top of another as films came and went. The boards were sold at a small community auction and made their way to us. When I received them, I could tell they were a treasure trove and began steaming each poster off one by one. Many were classic titles, with some never seen in modern times. This poster sold for $101,575 in March 2012.
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Aaaand, there goes Matt's nth heart attack...
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Aaaand, there goes Matt's nth heart attack...
He's a healthy lad and his other finds make up for it ;D
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He's got quite an ability to find good stuff. Can't argue that
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i remember reading this thread before joining the forum. such a good story/read
i also remember reading a thread about HarryCaul putting on a great czech/polish poster exhibition - i wanted to comment something along the lines of you was so close to putting on a great early thirties hollywood exhibition as well ;D
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Matt, are you ok?
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HA had this collection/discovery in the bag, from the get go. thumbsup.gif