All Poster Forum
Off-Topic Discussion => Why a New Forum? => Topic started by: Dread_Pirate_Mel on December 21, 2009, 08:49:17 AM
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I was just reading over some of the 60,000+ posts at the icollectmovieposters.com (http://www.icollectmovieposters.com/start-forum/Default.aspx) site, which shut down in July 2005. I noticed some very familiar names - Tom Pennock, Phil Edwards, Dave Lieberman.
Can any veterans here expound on the history of movie poster forums? I'm curious about how they developed, which came first (MOPO?), which didn't succeed, why new movie forums were started, etc. (I think everyone knows why this forum started, of course.)
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MoPo (join at http://www.filmfan.com (http://www.filmfan.com)) was the very first. It is run by a great guy, Scott Burns. I think he made a major faux pax when he linked to every poster site and dealer imaginable but DIDN'T require they link back to MoPo, so he helped every other site grow, except his own. MoPo has around the same number of members it had 5 years ago, even though the hobby has grown considerably since then.
There is a massive amount of poster knowledge on MoPo, more so than on any other forum. The emphasis is on older (pre-1970) movie paper, and I hear there are some members there who look down on those who collect posters of the past 20 years!
Bruce
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Thanks for info. But how did NSFGE get started? What happened to iCollectmovieposters? It looks like it went dark and MPF started at the same time (July 2005). What happened to Jon Warren and his Movie Poster Price Guide?
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NSFGE was forged from the fiery depths of hell where blasphemous postings are not only tolerated, but encouraged (so long as they rank high enough on the hilarity metre).
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There used to be forum on icollect...I forget what it was called.
I think the guy who ran it got some flack from dealers because of what people were posting about them on the forum and then shut it down because he didn't want to deal with the mess. Wasn't this where the Canadian poster terrorists were "born"?
This is when NSFGE and MPF started...as we all know two very different forums.
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Movie Poster Talk (Icollect....) was the best poster forum bar none - it allegedly died because of a conflict of interest between unregulated free speech and the power of advertisers or potential advertisers.
Mark
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There used to be forum on icollect...I forget what it was called.
I think the guy who ran it got some flack from dealers because of what people were posting about them on the forum and then shut it down because he didn't want to deal with the mess. Wasn't this where the Canadian poster terrorists were "born"?
This is when NSFGE and MPF started...as we all know two very different forums.
How and why did they diverge? NSFGE vintage posters, MPF modern posters?
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I think they just both started up at around the same time. No forethought or planning to have say two competing forums. It just kinda happened that two forums were created and developed different "personalities".
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I seem to remember NSFGE coming first after the final lockdown of MPT, and then MPF.
MPC (Movie Poster Chat) was there as well, sometime after NSFGE came about, but it died.
Jason.
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Ill give my perspective, as the owner of or PRESIDENT or ruler, or loser, whatever of NOT SUITABLE FOR GENERAL EXHIBITION.
Basically, at the time, Movie poster talk started deleting, and locking posts, there was a time when to post you submitted and then if approved it would go live. A member Ill call him B made one of the funniest and cleverest post ever to get by the censorship. There was a lot of adverters/sponsors, and some were getting angry that they were being "picked" on, for whatever reason.
Jon I think realised it was a headache and not worth the few bucks he earned.
I called or emailed, cant remember, Phil and we decided to start an alternative, mainly because we felt people should be able to speak freely (and as Holiday says within reason - I have deleted 2 posts in the last few years - apart from Spammers who get the trash), both were particuarly... hmm, well, forget just being racist or sexist, got a little worse.
We also decided that it should be advertising free, and over the years I have had MANY dealers email and ask to advertise, also dealers asking me for special favours regarding what people post about them.
End of the day read the disclaimer at the top of NS4 and then like it or lump it. I make no $ from it. Just like chatting with fellow movie fans.
re NS4g Vs MPF, yeah we snuck in by a breath, shame we didnt "borrow" all the email adresses from MPT (ahh bitchy)
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yeah we snuck in by a breath, shame we didn't "borrow" all the email addresses from MPT
But you have to think like that to do that.
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Yeah, I was gonna mention the email bit, but um hmm...
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Movie Poster Talk (Icollect....) was the best poster forum bar none - it allegedly died because of a conflict of interest between unregulated free speech and the power of advertisers or potential advertisers.
Mark
Mark, the premise you have of why it was shut down are really incorrect, or at least off-base.
Jon had set up a forum that was very well populated & well used.. But it had become something Jon had nort intended it to be - a bashing forum.
Jon wanted the forum available for honest discussion and poster talk to forward the hobby we all love..
It worked for some time until it started becoming a forum for some members to bash dealers and other people they had a gripe or bone to pick with,. That really wasn't what Jon wanted. Then one of the forum moderators (or 2) became bashers as well at which point Jon, not wanting to have to deal with the work to keep the forum clean just ended it.
Unregulated Free Speech as you call it is not exactly what we have in these forums you know.. It is entirely regulated - as it should be - by the user agreement you sign off on when you join any group.. and while I agree that there is free speech on the sidewalk that is publicly owned, all forums have an owner. In this case (all poster) it's Holiday & Thierry. MPT was Jon warren. each of them can decide on their own what they will allow and Jon would not allow what he felt the site whouldn't have..
Scott Burns does a pretty good job keeping BS off the MoPo list.. I think it's a model that should be emulated. An honest gripe is allowable.. Slandering people is not. MPT was closed because it had indeed become slanderous in it's last days.. That isn't Jon's fault.. it's the fault of members who couldn't abide by simple rules and decorum.
Rich
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I used the word allegedly because it was my recollection that the conflict of interest I referred to was an opinion expressed by quite a few people following MPT's demise - but that it was only an opinion. I think the forums are regulated to differing degrees ranging from "entirely regulated" (e.g. MPF - where there are commercial interests involved) to "not regulated very much" (e.g. NFSGE - where there are no commercial interests involved) and it is entirely the forum owner's prerogative to operate the forum as he wishes and for members to abide by the rules or leave if they do not agree with them - or be asked to leave. Jon sadly chose to close his forum - with its wealth of information lost forever - rather than resolve his differences directly with the individuals he perceived to be causing trouble. I accept and understand he had had enough.
Mark
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Mark.. at first Jon asked people to behave.. It didn't work because some people just can't behave. It finally got to be some much trouble that he felt the only way to go was shut down.. and yes, it is a loss.
I was originally going to add a forum to MoviePosterBid.. but I saw it as more work than I could handle to moderate a forum for the same reasons Jon shut his down..
90% or more of people are right-thinking and courteous.. the rest are generally as far to the opposite as you can get.. That 10% (or less) unfortunately ruin it for the other 90%.. it's the way of the world!!
Rich
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Aint that the truth,Rich.
I was gonna join MPT in it's last months of existence but it was such a train wreck I decided..... maybe I better not.
Anthony
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Well the Movie Poster Talk Forum archives still exist and appear to be complete (http://www.icollectmovieposters.com/start-forum/Default.aspx) - 194 pages of threads, so the information there has not been lost.
BTW it is very unusual for a website that has been dead for five years to still be around....
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Dread pirate.. that's because Jon has his own servers and no need to free up disc space etc..
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theres sure some interesting threads on the ol' MPT.
And we all made a lot of friends.
and some enemies.
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Mark, the premise you have of why it was shut down are really incorrect, or at least off-base.
Jon had set up a forum that was very well populated & well used.. But it had become something Jon had nort intended it to be - a bashing forum.
Jon wanted the forum available for honest discussion and poster talk to forward the hobby we all love..
It worked for some time until it started becoming a forum for some members to bash dealers and other people they had a gripe or bone to pick with,. That really wasn't what Jon wanted. Then one of the forum moderators (or 2) became bashers as well at which point Jon, not wanting to have to deal with the work to keep the forum clean just ended it.
Unregulated Free Speech as you call it is not exactly what we have in these forums you know.. It is entirely regulated - as it should be - by the user agreement you sign off on when you join any group.. and while I agree that there is free speech on the sidewalk that is publicly owned, all forums have an owner. In this case (all poster) it's Holiday & Thierry. MPT was Jon warren. each of them can decide on their own what they will allow and Jon would not allow what he felt the site whouldn't have..
Scott Burns does a pretty good job keeping BS off the MoPo list.. I think it's a model that should be emulated. An honest gripe is allowable.. Slandering people is not. MPT was closed because it had indeed become slanderous in it's last days.. That isn't Jon's fault.. it's the fault of members who couldn't abide by simple rules and decorum.
Rich
Let's be clear... it was a war between Bruce and his trolls and, eventually, he whined to Jon Warren until he gave up. There is a reason that Bruce had ALL of his posts deleted from MPT.
This was after the first shutdown...
Topic
JON WARREN
Administrator
UNITED STATES
962 Posts Posted - 04/21/2005 : 16:40:54
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Well, that was easy. I met with my programmers this afternoon and found a way to review all posts before they go live. It turns out that the feature is built into the forum software.
Like I said in the MPT Goes Offline post, I'm not the smartest guy around, so I didn't know I had this feature.
From now on, no post will go live until I have read and approved it.
That should allow me to retake control of the forum, wresting it from the hijackers who had taken it over for their own agenda.
The downside is that it will be a much bigger job to read/approve every post before it goes live. But it is the only way I see that I can control the content of the forum.
Another downside is that you will not be able to see immediate replies to your posts.
I want a happy, friendly place, not a grumbling bar brawl every day.
Thanks to all of you who sent me emails and calls. I really thank you from the bottom of my heart. I was really distraught over all this and it helped brighten a very grey day to get so many letters of support.
We will move forward, and continue to have a great place to sit around and talk about movie posters.
Best of all, none of us will ever have to read a Hate Bruce post again. Many of you emailed me privately to tell me that you were totally bored and sick of the hate Bruce posts, so now we never have to see them again. All you Bruce haters can go somewhere else to vent your hatred. Bye Bye.
To the MPT family, those good and decent people who love movie posters as much as I do, let's get back to normal and put this fiasco behind us.
Jon R. Warren
Warren's Movie Poster Price Guide
http://www.icollectmovieposters.com
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Let's be clear... it was a war between Bruce and his trolls and, eventually, he whined to Jon Warren until he gave up. There is a reason that Bruce had ALL of his posts deleted from MPT.
This was after the first shutdown...
Jason, yu have the reasons bass-ackwards
Reality: People are supposed to act with at least a modicum of good behavior. It wasn't Bruce's fault anything, it was the trolls who feel free speech allows them to say anything they wish and this is incorrect. Free speech allows you to say things that are not defamatory. When you say defamatory things you are breaking civil and possibly criminal laws depending on how rooted in provable fact your statements are or aren't. Truth is not actionable, but how you tell that truth can be.
and to be sure, I'm talking about fairness. I don't think Bruce is fair to Heritage all the time, but he doesn't flame them when he criticizes them and he doesn't tell "lies". But I do question his version of the truth when he talks about Heritage and there is a difference betyween his attacks on Heritage and the MPT attacks on Bruce by a considerable margin.
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There were countless fake IDs created, and I was not the only target. There are a few prominent gay collectors/dealers, and there were "funny" derogatory posts about them.I told Jon I could no longer participate, with lots of outrageous daily posts from fake trolls, and I asked him to remove my posts (because I felt leaving them there would imply I approved of what was going on), which he did. He was threatened with a lawsuit by someone, and that made him decide to have every single post approved, which he soon decided was ridiculous, and he closed the forum.
This is nothing new to online forums. There have been pathetic trolls on NSF and on MoPo, but when they find that others don't appreciate their brand of "humor", they take a rest for months or years. Every good online forum I have been on since 1998 has eventually been ruined by the actions of a few trolls, because even though they are banned they keep signing up with fake accounts.
And of course, eBay has had countless millions of fake bidders who go on a bidding spree and never pay.
Jon's forum had some of the very most knowledgeable experts posting on it on every subject imaginable (not pseudo-experts as appear on TV shows). and it was a wonderful resource for every collector, and it could be replicated on this forum. But none of those knowledgeable experts were paid anything, so I don't think it was too much to ask for common courtesy.
Rich, point to anything I have written about any of my competition that is not factually true. Heritage has a graph on their site showing that their entire site gets hundreds of times the visitors mine does (of course 99.9% of those visitors have zero interest in movie posters). But I don't complain about that because it is correct that their entire site gets hundreds of times the visitors mine does.
Bruce
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Well Bruce has strongly implied many, many times that Heritage knowingly allows shillers and consignors to inflate their auction prices. The guy (Gary Hendershott) who actually sued them claiming that ending up getting one of the worst legal @ss-whippings I've ever seen. He dropped the case by settlement but had to EXPRESSLY admit as part of the settlement that his claims against Heritage were FALSE. You rarely rarely see any admission like that in a settlement. Usually the parties just "walk away" with no admissions of liability or blame.
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Bruce, you know where I disagree with you on Heritage. Specifically where you have said they bid up proxy bids to their bidder's max based on a few people (or however many) claiming everything they won was at their top bid. It hasn't happened to you, so it's second hand info and even though one of the people I'm referencing is a good friend of mine, I still disagree with him and you on this issue. It's something that is not my experience and except for the one guy, I've never heard the same complaint from anyone. Ergo, I define that issue as a dubious claim.
Keep in mind though, when you gripe about Heritage, it's at least in an adult way which is not what was happening at MPT, which was my explanation in my previous post.
It's like political debate: you don't have to agree, but you should debate as adults and not yell and stop being friends with someone over their political beliefs. You can have disagreements without demonizing others.
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and Bruce.. where's that graph? I've never seen it
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Jason, yu have the reasons bass-ackwards
Reality: People are supposed to act with at least a modicum of good behavior. It wasn't Bruce's fault anything, it was the trolls who feel free speech allows them to say anything they wish and this is incorrect. Free speech allows you to say things that are not defamatory. When you say defamatory things you are breaking civil and possibly criminal laws depending on how rooted in provable fact your statements are or aren't. Truth is not actionable, but how you tell that truth can be.
Chicken or Egg?
Both played a part. The only answer is to not feed the trolls with the attention that they seek.
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Rich:
Heritage links to this in their "Sell" section.
You can add emovieposter.com but I don't feel like signing up for an account.
http://www.compete.com/m/graph_to_image/ha-com-christies-com-sothebys-com/uv/1y/big/ (http://www.compete.com/m/graph_to_image/ha-com-christies-com-sothebys-com/uv/1y/big/)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr156/Assgoblin/ha-com-christies-com-sothebys-_uv_1y.png)
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Here is the graph
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/ha.com+emovieposter.com+profilesinhistory.com/?metric=uv&months=12 (http://siteanalytics.compete.com/ha.com+emovieposter.com+profilesinhistory.com/?metric=uv&months=12)
As to the mysterious maxed bids, that happens at TONS of auctions. The absentee bidder enters an absentee bid, and the item goes for just under their bid (and those mysterious underbidders never care about the same item the next time it comes up). That's how you see an item sell for $50,000 one time and pass at $25,000 the next time.
I have seen this myself many times and have had many regular bidders report that it has happened to them.
Bruce
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Well the Movie Poster Talk Forum archives still exist and appear to be complete (http://www.icollectmovieposters.com/start-forum/Default.aspx) - 194 pages of threads, so the information there has not been lost.
BTW it is very unusual for a website that has been dead for five years to still be around....
How come I get a system error when I try to go to this link?
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me too, and seems I cant access the forum at all, never had a problem before.
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Seems you get that error message with the entire site, not just the forums. Maybe changing webhosts or he took down the site entirely
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I hope it hasnt been taken down.
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As to the mysterious maxed bids, that happens at TONS of auctions. The absentee bidder enters an absentee bid, and the item goes for just under their bid (and those mysterious underbidders never care about the same item the next time it comes up). That's how you see an item sell for $50,000 one time and pass at $25,000 the next time.
I have seen this myself many times and have had many regular bidders report that it has happened to them.
Bruce, your detractors might suggest that this very scenario just happened with your recently offered Babe Comes Home insert.
Do you have any specific examples of a poster that sold at Heritage for $50,000 and then was passed the next time at $25,000?
Or was this a generic comment at your "competition"?
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The site was gradually losing information. The last time I checked a few months ago you could only access the original posts but not the replies.
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Rich:
Heritage links to this in their "Sell" section.
You can add emovieposter.com but I don't feel like signing up for an account.
http://www.compete.com/m/graph_to_image/ha-com-christies-com-sothebys-com/uv/1y/big/ (http://www.compete.com/m/graph_to_image/ha-com-christies-com-sothebys-com/uv/1y/big/)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr156/Assgoblin/ha-com-christies-com-sothebys-_uv_1y.png)
where's MoviePosterBid??
moron1
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What's that Rich?
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Who's Rich?
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My recollection was the site was taken down due to threats or disapproval of posts from multiple heavy weights in the field and I believe Jon was leaned on both legally and morally by "friends" to make changes.
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Dale, I thought you were coming down here to start some trouble.
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Sean
The Babe Comes Home "sold" the first time for $9,700. The auction is at http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=1880609 (http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=1880609)
After repeated promises to pay, the high bidder (a well known memorabilia dealer) never paid, so I re-auctioned it with this Important Added Info:
"IMPORTANT! We auctioned this poster in our last mini/major auction, and it finished at $9,700. But the high bidder did not pay (after repeated promises to do so), so we are re-auctioning it, giving all bidders one final chance to acquire this rare and wonderful poster. But please do not bid on this poster unless you can accept its defects described above or are willing to pay to have them properly restored, AND CAN PAY FOR YOUR PURCHASE WITHIN ONE WEEK!"
It sold for $5,376, and the poster has been paid for and received. The auction is at http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=2026172 (http://auctions.emovieposter.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=2026172)
Bruce
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I had just returned from Vegas on the 13th, couldn't find anything for my wife to do while I made a return trip ;)
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I still miss MPT and some of the "unique" personalities that it spawned.
My recollection was the site was taken down due to threats or disapproval of posts from multiple heavy weights in the field and I believe Jon was leaned on both legally and morally by "friends" to make changes.
This is my recollection as well.
I would also add that the site was unmoderated for a while. As time went on, some people had issue with some of the posts. It got to a point where Jon warned people and turned it into a moderated forum. At the time, several regular posters and contributors agreed to serve as moderators. Things were peaceful for a short while, but the shit storm hit when one of these moderators posted something, about a dealer that crossed the line or was very provocative depending on your point of view. I think the site was down permanently within a week or two of that.
That's around when Ari and Phil started NSFGE.
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Bruce,
You explained what happened and I certainly believe you - but my question still stands:
Do YOU have any specific examples of a poster selling for $50,000 and then being passed entirely the next time it was offered at $25,000?
Or is the above statement just part of your general smear promotional campaign?
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I guess I am wrong, since you clearly know all the inside info, but from the outside, it looked like this poster (http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=667&Lot_No=28859 (http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=667&Lot_No=28859) "sold" for $47,800, and then one in better condition after that passed with a $25,000 minimum.
And if you want to have a conversation, and accuse me of smearing someone, you probably don't advance your cause by accusing me of lying. If you persist, I will let you argue this with yourself, or one of the trolls.
Bruce
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Bruce, I know for a fact that the This Gun For Hire poster did indeed sell for that $47k and I know who won it as well as who it was bought for, so it isn't a really good example - if you might have a different one.
That poster sold to "bidder #2" who was repping someone putting a museum quality collection together with an endless well of money at the height of the time period that they were buying and most of the rest of us knew that title would go back to to something South of $25k in short process (as well as hundreds of other posters the buyer won). Cost was not an issue to the eventual owner.
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So who was the $47,000 underbidder who didn't want another one in better condition for half the price a short time later?
Bruce
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I guess I am wrong, since you clearly know all the inside info, but from the outside, it looked like this poster (http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=667&Lot_No=28859 (http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=667&Lot_No=28859) "sold" for $47,800, and then one in better condition after that passed with a $25,000 minimum.
And if you want to have a conversation, and accuse me of smearing someone, you probably don't advance your cause by accusing me of lying. If you persist, I will let you argue this with yourself, or one of the trolls.
Bruce
Bruce,
I have never accused of you lying and am not sure what you are talking about. If you are referring to the Babe Come Home poster, I was careful to label it by saying your detractors could try to argue shenanigans with you. I have no reason to disbelieve what you originally stated and in fact was planning on bidding on it the second time around but totally forgot (In fact Rich tried to remind me the evening it closed but my wife and I were at the movies and I didn't get to bid).
As for the This Gun For Hire poster: Three more copies were offered by Heritage in auctions after the $47K copy and all of them found happy buyers in the $20-22K range. I do see that one finally passed this past summer, I am not familiar with what the reserve was but would suggest that if it was $25K, the three previous sales shows that to be too high of a number. Certainly the underbidder could have bought any of the three copies that were previously sold.
I do know that at least one of the underbidders on the $47K copy (a well known Canadian collector who also frequently bids in your auctions) did indeed purchase a copy privately, as he purchased it from me. I am not certain if he was THE underbidder, or the 3rd place bidder as I did not ask him.
Sean
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So who was the $47,000 underbidder who didn't want another one in better condition for half the price a short time later?
Bruce
he probably got the one that sold for $25k and his only competition was less
doesn't that make sense to you?
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Sean and Bruce are actually gaga over each other, despite what notions this thread may allow.
(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/wonkabars7/Cinevent%202010/IMAG0081.jpg)
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I have known Bruce personally for 20 years now (and before that by reputation from my comic book background), and have always considered him to
be a friend and an honest straight-shooter in general.
I still remember on the original MPT forum a post someone made about a Thing From Another World poster they had purchased from me and the buyer was worried because he hadn't been able to get ahold of me over a weekend. Bruce came on and said he was so confident in me that he would personally reimburse the buyer if it turned out I ran away with his money - that's not something you do for someone you don't get along with.
Any misunderstanding in this thread I believe stems from the usual problem of posting on a board and not being able to see/hear in person what was intended by any comment.
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I have no problem with Sean. I have been buying at auction for over 40 years, and have run auctions for over 20 years, and I have seen with my own eyes (and heard many detailed stories from people I trust) of people getting cheated at auctions of all sorts, and I know that it occurs a lot. If I have written anything factually incorrect, please point out exactly what I said and where, and exactly why it is incorrect, and I won't say it anymore, and I will correct it.
People can make up their own minds. When they buy items that are described as "fine to very fine" and there are many pinholes scattered throughout (that did not show in the auction image) or when they are told they can't combine 7 like purchases and must pay 7 separate shipping charges, or any similar result, I believe they will be quite reluctant to order from those auction places again.
And when they receive first rate honest service, I believe they will be far more likely to order from those auction places again.
Bruce
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Anyone else feelin' the poster community camaraderie? :-*
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When they buy items that are described as "fine to very fine" and there are many pinholes scattered throughout (that did not show in the auction image) or when they are told they can't combine 7 like purchases and must pay 7 separate shipping charges, or any similar result, I believe they will be quite reluctant to order from those auction places again
As per the grading, you could say that about more than a few of the bigger dealers on MoPo & eBay. It's hardly unique to Heritage. Regarding the shipping issue, when I won three lots in the last Sig auction (two lobbies and a WC) they shipped them all in one package. Was the person asking HA to hold on to his wins so he could add more later and have them shipped in one package (like you do)?
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As per the grading, you could say that about more than a few of the bigger dealers on MoPo & eBay. It's hardly unique to Heritage. Regarding the shipping issue, when I won three lots in the last Sig auction (two lobbies and a WC) they shipped them all in one package. Was the person asking HA to hold on to his wins so he could add more later and have them shipped in one package (like you do)?
Angelo, because Heritage is a large company with separate units, the shipping part is run autonomously from the others. Grey Smith gets many complaints about "those people" which are beyond his control. They ship for the whole company. Sadly, they don't listen to buyers either. The stellar service of the movie poster unit gets screwed by the shipping dept. I've stopped trying to get them to merge my order. Only the gal who does the ebay listings merges your orders successfully.
I'm sure they're setup like the casinos where each section or segment is incorporated separately and must show profits as individual corporations (at the Mirage for instance, the poker room is incorporated, the slots are incorporated, table games is another corporation, restaurants is another and so is the pool, spa, hotel etc. and they all answer to the building which is the head corporation. This is fairly common in the casino world)
It definitely is a pain to deal with Heritage shipping people when you have a gripe, multiple orders and the like. But hey, as long as you know the deal, you know how to operate within the constraints of it. I'm happy to merge as we know as is Bruce. We do it because it cuts down on work. Heritage's shipping dept has their own reasons.. and I've never tried to ask what those reasons are, but I suspect it has to do with gross income in that dept vs profits vs costs etc. and what they make may be in part determined by # of packages shipped.
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As per the grading, you could say that about more than a few of the bigger dealers on MoPo & eBay. It's hardly unique to Heritage.
Yep. I have seen worse than Heritage but Heritage does fudge a wee bit more than I like. I have a couple come in from them that made me a little unhappy. I have lived and learned and hold it against them when looking at their auctions. Plus, because of said experiences, I spend alot longer looking at their very good pics( they do do that very well) than I do at emovies.
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Angelo, because Heritage is a large company with separate units, the shipping part is run autonomously from the others. Grey Smith gets many complaints about "those people" which are beyond his control. They ship for the whole company. Sadly, they don't listen to buyers either. The stellar service of the movie poster unit gets screwed by the shipping dept. I've stopped trying to get them to merge my order. Only the gal who does the ebay listings merges your orders successfully.
I'm sure they're setup like the casinos where each section or segment is incorporated separately and must show profits as individual corporations (at the Mirage for instance, the poker room is incorporated, the slots are incorporated, table games is another corporation, restaurants is another and so is the pool, spa, hotel etc. and they all answer to the building which is the head corporation. This is fairly common in the casino world)
It definitely is a pain to deal with Heritage shipping people when you have a gripe, multiple orders and the like. But hey, as long as you know the deal, you know how to operate within the constraints of it. I'm happy to merge as we know as is Bruce. We do it because it cuts down on work. Heritage's shipping dept has their own reasons.. and I've never tried to ask what those reasons are, but I suspect it has to do with gross income in that dept vs profits vs costs etc. and what they make may be in part determined by # of packages shipped.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, Rich
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Yep. I have seen worse than Heritage but Heritage does fudge a wee bit more than I like. I have a couple come in from them that made me a little unhappy. I have lived and learned and hold it against them when looking at their auctions. Plus, because of said experiences, I spend alot longer looking at their very good pics( they do do that very well) than I do at emovies.
Oh, I look over Heritage scans with a fine-toothed comb. I've disagreed with their grading plenty of times. Never meant to imply differently