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Common Poster Subjects => Authentication => Topic started by: Harry Caul on September 28, 2010, 05:45:37 PM
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Anyone know anything about this? It is a full sized, folded 1-sheet mounted on linen. Given that the colors are printed right to the edge of the paper and the rather risque artwork, I'm guessing 70s RR? Or maybe a locally produced poster?
Anyone?
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s369/drharrycaul/random%20pics/WZ_zpsjcihhgmd.jpg)
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Never saw one of those before...where did you get it, the bay?
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Yupper. $69 shipped! Could be junk for all I know. I loved the colors and art though, that is all that matters. And I'll probably never be able to afford any original release WZ paper....
No record of this at LAMP, eMovie, Heritage or Christies...
(crossing fingers while waiting for Bruce to tell me it is a long-lost teaser 1-sheet)
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I saw that listing Harry and I think it must be some 1960s poster
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Whatever it is... its pretty cool.
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oh Harry.. I should also mention.. it could be that it isn't even a real movie poster and it's some faux poster. I'm sure some dealers might know better than I what it is..
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I'm pretty sure "White Zombie" is/was a public domain film, meaning anybody with a print could exhibit it. Methinks this might be for a situation like that, (although I'm not ruling out an original release teaser). Does have '50s/'60s vibe.
--Peter
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Peter is it absolutely not an original release teaser
just look at it... it's on new-ish paper, possibly shiny 70s stock
Harry will know more when he gets it.
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Well, I was kidding about the teaser bit. Clearly forgot a ;) or two.
Definitely paper needs to be examined, and accurate measurements taken.
--Peter sm1
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Agreed, regardless of what it actually is - it's great and Harry, you bought it for the right reasons...
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(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s369/drharrycaul/random%20pics/WZ_zpsjcihhgmd.jpg)
My poster arrived today! I'm not sure if we have all that much more to go on, but if it helps...
- Paper measures a full 27"x41"
- There are no borders (all white you see is linen)
- Folds are very straight, look like machine folds
- But, the vertical fold is slightly off center -- left half measures 13 5/8", right half measures 13 3/8" (not sure if that means anything)
- Printed on matte paper, not glossy
- Paper is yellow all the way through (I checked the back)
- The paper has a nice texture to it... you can see some of the fibers if you look closely at the yellow parts
- Printing looks like single color screen print? Experts? (see close-up of woman's face below)
- Regardless, definitely not computer or machine printed (even older posters like my BAT looked like they used benday dots or something)
- No printer or artist information whatsoever
I'm now *convinced* that it is an uber-rare original teaser poster hand-printed for the premier in 1932 -- it is probably worth a million dollars easy. ;D
Seriously though, does this info help to date or identify this poster at all? Should I try to enlist the brain trust at MOPO...? Thanks in advance for any assistance!
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s369/drharrycaul/random%20pics/WZ-close-up_zpslxgwtlbi.jpg)
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Well, Harry...I think you'll have to enlist the MoPo braintrust with this one. I have searched high and low for info on this poster, to no avail.
If you come up emptyhanded on MoPo, why not contact Ron Borst?
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Harry, there is no dot pattern because the poster isn't printed offset.
it is a single color on yellow stock and is probably silkscreened
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Thanks... so what was the progression in technology?
Stone Lithos 1900 - ?
Offset Printing ? - ?
What next? Modern digital?
It seems like there is probably something missing between Offset and modern digital printing as well... I know my BAT (1961) and my Great Escape (1963) looks loads different from my Graduate (1967) and Easy Rider (1969) posters -- no benday dots. What did they use to print posters between the 60s and the 80s?
Also, has silkscreening ever been used for mass-produced posters? Is my White Zombie likely a local print effort?
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Silk screening was really common among low budget distributors, (OK, exploitation films). I've even seen some NSS posters that used it, primarily 30x40s. I'm actually more convinced now that it's somebody who got their own print of the film and ran with it. I'm still thinking '50s or '60s.
--Peter
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I'm actually more convinced now that it's somebody who got their own print of the film and ran with it. I'm still thinking '50s or '60s.
I'm pretty sure White Zombie is a public domain film so I imagine that is entirely possible... thanks for the info on silkscreening!
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My question would be when did the copyright actually expire?
But my guess is also in or around the 60s...
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*Edit*
I see that Mr. Feiertag (who is an authority) has responded on MoPo:
Harry,
This is an "other" company printed poster by an independent printer and
obviously not by the studio(United Artists).
Was printed on yellow stock paper and since it's 27x41, I'm sure it's the
original size and not trimmed.
Even with the risque artwork, it's very possible it's from the 1930's or
1940's. Doesn't look to be as late as a 60's poster.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Todd
Ask and ye shall receive...
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Yup... good stuff over there. Bruce just chimed in as well:
It's likely from the 1938 re-release, because this coincides with the heyday of the "other company" type companies.
I'd say it's surely not the "other company", Leader Press, or Woolever Press (looks unlike those, and the last two wrote their name on almost all they did).
We have sold several posters just like this on other titles of the 1930s and 1940s, so this is not the only poster they did.
Odd posters like these rarely command big bucks, except when they is an uninformed new collector on the scene.
Bruce
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I'm kinda confused (as I often am...)...
This is the widely used 1938 RR poster...
(http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu12/brude2000/OTHER/WhiteZombie1938RR.jpg)
For what it's worth, I think yours is from the 60's.
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But Brude that is the (wide) theatrical release poster...
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But Brude that is the (wide) theatrical release poster...
That's exactly my point.
Why would another print -- on colored paper -- have been produced if there was already an un-credited RR poster readily available?
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Whatever it is, its pretty freakin' cool and unique. Those kind of mystery posters are my favorites, actually. Great find (as usual) Harry!!
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Whatever it is, its pretty freakin' cool and unique. Those kind of mystery posters are my favorites, actually. Great find (as usual) Harry!!
Agreed! It is a very unique item with great aesthetic value.
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If you want to flip it ping me ;D
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That's exactly my point.
Why would another print -- on colored paper -- have been produced if there was already an un-credited RR poster readily available?
As I understand it - because (likely) the one the Harry has is for a localized run not a wide release (as the other full colour '38 is) - maybe for a small town theatre or roadshow release...
And I forgot to add, while I am not an expert, I would wager it is not a '38 release but something more in line with the 60s as I said before.
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That's exactly my point.
Why would another print -- on colored paper -- have been produced if there was already an un-credited RR poster readily available?
I think the "readily available" part is where your assumptions might be off...
I have an non-NSS Jumbo WC for The Scarlet Empress printed by the Globe Poster Co. If I didn't know any better, because of the modern, simple design aesthetic I would have assumed this was from maybe a college showing in 60s... or hell, maybe a Tyler Stout Alamo special from last year! :D However, this particular poster was definitely used for the original 1934 release. I know this fact as it has collectible stamps on the back from 1922 that were canceled in 1934. Even more telling is that snipe area at the top was reused at least twice by small theaters throughout rural West Virginia so this was probably passed along with the film. So an original release, non-NSS poster that was used and re-used... probably due to lack of paper from the NSS.
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1080/scarletempressfront.jpg)
Bruce chimed in again on MOPO regarding availability of pre-1940s posters as well...
The “Other Company” and similar companies started in the early to mid 1930s because some studios were lax in creating enough posters, so theaters would get movies where they couldn't get posters for those (remember that in the mid-1930s there were theaters on every block in big cities, and even tiny towns like mine had three theaters, so most movies stayed in continuous release for two years or more!
These companies provided a valuable service, but in 1940 NSS signed with several major studios to become the primary poster distributor for them, and that put all the little companies out of business.
It is SO frustrating that NO ONE knows the actual name of "the “Other Company"! I had a brochure from them once showing their posters, but it was incomplete and missing any company information. I need to look at my trade magazines from the late 1930s, for there should be ads for them there.
Bruce
P.S. That poster is a great buy for the price you paid, but don't sink a lot of money into linenbacking it.
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Good points, Harry. Nice Dietrich poster also.
I enjoy 'poster mysteries' and this WHITE ZOMBIE is one of the finest 'whodunits' in quite some time...
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Harry
like Brude, I believe the poster is a 1960s or even 70s poster
Keep in mind, none of us - not even Bruce - have had the poster in hand, so we can't check the paper etc. But I don't think it is 1930s 40s or 50s. If I had believed that, I would have bid against you
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I think I'm going to have to defer to Todd and Bruce on this one. The crummy artwork - which is what was making me go later - does seem to be reinforced by the crummy artwork of poor Ms. D on the "Scarlet Empress."
Found this on teh interwebs:
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/oldposterho/posters/whitezombie-121738.jpg)
I suspect this is definitely the "inspiration" for Harry's one sheet, now whether or not it's actually from the '38R is open for debate, I'd tend to lean for it being from the '40s for it though, as the film was playing right into the second great war, and the so-called artist had access to this earlier advertising material for his basic design.
Edit: Ya know, thinking this through a little more, I wonder if this actually could have been the poster used for these "race theater" showings (even in '38)? It does have the same rough quality as many of the Toddy posters.
--Peter
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Excellent research Peter. The mystery continues.
Stew
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Interesting stuff Peter. Good work...
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My good friend Gary Rhodes wrote an amazing book on the film White Zombie. I will email him the poster image
Dennis
(http://www.moviemonstermuseum.com/celebrityEstateItems/BelaScrapbk3.JPG)
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My good friend Gary Rhodes wrote an amazing book on the film White Zombie. I will email him the poster image
Dennis
(http://www.moviemonstermuseum.com/celebrityEstateItems/BelaScrapbk3.JPG)
Thanks Dennis! Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'm glad to see more vintage collectors coming on board!
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I got a reply from Gary Rhodes, who wrote an amazing book on the film White Zombie. His reply:
I've seen this artwork, which was repurposed for the 1952 release, but I've not seen this yellow version. My best guess would be that it is from 52 or a little later, as it kept making its way into theatres in the 50s.
Hope that helps. Dennis
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Yes Dennis, this is very helpful. I really appreciate you asking for me!
However, it is sounding more and more like we will ever be 100% positive as to the origins...
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Edit: Ya know, thinking this through a little more, I wonder if this actually could have been the poster used for these "race theater" showings (even in '38)? It does have the same rough quality as many of the Toddy posters.
--Peter
Can you tell us more about the "race theater" showings and the "Toddy" posters? This is the first I've ever heard of them...
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Sure. The ad I posted was from a "negro" newspaper. Back in the bad old days, many theaters were segregated by race (no mixing allowed), so either separate showings were scheduled, or theaters were dedicated to particular races. There was an entire sub-industry devoted to making and showing "colored" films, and "Toddy" was one of the distribution leaders. Many great filmmakers (such as Michaux) and not so great filmmakers (Spenser Williams) worked within it.
Many of the Toddy posters had a distinctive (lack of) style, such as this example liberated from Heritage:
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o90/oldposterho/posters/toddy.jpg)
To my eye, your "WZ" posters definitely has some similarities.
--Peter
(Outdated racial terminology for reference purposes only)
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Yes, that artwork/production-style does look for similar. Thanks for posting it...
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Well, it looks like I'm not the only one who has one of these now... one just sold on eBay for $142. Apparently I've already doubled my investment! ;D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=350428424334&si=Vrtw4D%252BZheb5jTOpsGo2WvhO4%252FM%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:1123#ht_1626wt_1139
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3225/14059932.jpg)
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Was watching that one, hoping to get it near where you did but alas not this time!
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Question, Harry: Did you buy yours from a Canadian seller?
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I was an under bidder at 140ish and my last ditch effort at 175 went in a second to late
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Nope. And even though I didn't bid on this copy, I did ask the seller if they knew anything about it. I specifically asked if this was from Canada as well, but they didn't know. They were just consigning it...
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OK, thought maybe this cool art was produced in Canada.
Great paper.
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OK, thought maybe this cool art was produced in Canada.
Great paper.
We're cool but not THAT cool Ted ;)
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OK, thought maybe this cool art was produced in Canada.
Great paper.
A good guess... but still inconclusive unfortunately.
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I stayed up late to watch this one finish. I was hoping somebody on the forum bagged it.
The only thing is the seller Cp millitaria has some neg feedback regarding shipping costs.
The new owner may get a nasty shock when the invoice arrives.
Stew
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Anyone know anything about this? It is a full sized, folded 1-sheet mounted on linen. Given that the colors are printed right to the edge of the paper and the rather risque artwork, I'm guessing 70s RR? Or maybe a locally produced poster?
Anyone?
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s369/drharrycaul/random%20pics/WZ_zpsjcihhgmd.jpg)
Love the color contrast.... the green against yellow. And it was a rather creepy flick for its time, too.
Well, it looks like I'm not the only one who has one of these now... one just sold on eBay for $142. Apparently I've already doubled my investment! ;D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=350428424334&si=Vrtw4D%252BZheb5jTOpsGo2WvhO4%252FM%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:1123#ht_1626wt_1139
Have any more of these surfaced in the last 5 years, since this last ebay auction?
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Those are the only two I've ever seen.
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You sellin`? ;)