All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => The Dealer/Auction House/Seller/Buyer Round Table => Topic started by: timelessmoviemagic on December 13, 2016, 06:15:31 PM
-
Evening chaps.
So today I took a look at Excalibur Auctions. They had a few items that I liked the look of so I thought I'd try and win them. After I left my first bid I was notified that I was in the lead but hadn't met the reserve. Realising this was a 'reserve' auction kind of put me off so I didn't bother with any other bids.
To me Excalibur would have been better off putting the required first bid the same as the hidden reserve price if they are going to have reserves. As I left after entering my first bid I don't know how successful the auction was but I am willing to bet lots of things were left unsold.
I was just wondering what other people think of 'reserve' auctions both as a buyer and seller? (and this doesn't mean some people can hijack this thread to mention they offer no reserve auctions) :)
Marc
-
I don't like to play games and try to figure out what someone's reserve is. Either you tell me what you want for a specific item, or I don't bid.
T
-
Heritage has the right formula with reserves - the first bid kicks the reserve.
I can't remember if the reserve is generally the low estimate of half the low estimate.
what I don't like about reserves in most cases with auction houses & many private collectors, is that the reserve generally is the retail value of the item. Hey, if you aren't willing to sell for a good discount when you have something listed in an auction (should that be the case), why bother?
-
I thought Excalibur would have learnt from their inaugural auction, where there seemed to be a pass rate of 70/80%, that their (undisclosed) reserves were too high. It's a waste of time.
Mark
-
I never bid in any ebay auction which has a "reserve not met" registered. If the seller has a minimum starting bid then that's fine, at least you know where you stand, otherwise it's just playing games from my point of view - the seller's reserve could be anything and I'm not going to keep increasing my bids to find it.
-
I was going to launch into this thread with a tirade of this and that but, being late to the party as ever, I see everything has been said.
I can only concur with;
1. Start bids being the reserve or I don't bother
2. Heritage having the right idea in this respect
3. Excaliber's inaugural auction problems and that they seemed not to have learnt a jot, including their shoddy photography and lot detail.
-
I think we are all in agreement of the way Excalibur should be holding their auctions and if there is to be a reserve then have that as the starting bid.
Simes made a good point about their sketchy photos. I also noticed that they graded quite a few items as good to fine.
That is one wide spectrum of grading. So basically if you win something it could turn up in pretty much any condition.
-
Mention has been made of their photography attempts during this inaugural auction, and when Adrian Cowdry was around.
Unfortunately, Adrian just took offence as opposed to doing anything about. Seems nowt has changed since he dearly departed.
-
At the end of the day, people will run their businesses how they see fit.
The problem with many starting film memorabilia auctions is that the management don't listen.
I've been there, done it, got the t-shirt. So have a couple of very good friends who worked in the midlands and south.
It annoys me here in the UK because really, what have we got?
Compared to the US, we don't have anywhere that comes close to Heritage, Bruce and Rich.
Of all the auction houses primed for this area, I genuinely believe Vectis was the best chance for it to take off in the UK because of the space they have and capital they could have put behind it (which I might add was promised to me in the beginning). I explained before I worked for them, during and afterwards that if they did it properly they would clean up. And I still reckon they would, but until they sort out their website and dodgy bidding software they will be a laughing stock amongst many. I have friends in the US media who wouldn't help me promote the sales when I worked for Vectis because of how poor their website and bidding platform was.
My only hope is that a manager or owner of one of the auction houses in the UK chances upon the poster forums and reads what we are saying. It's about time the UK had an auction house capable of competing with the US in terms of film memorabilia.
-
I sent a polite email saying how I thought they can improve their auctions and the experience for buyers.
They did send a courteous reply mentioning how they are looking into changing their photography set up. Also they mentioned they have their hands tied with the reserves because not many of their consignors are willing to let items be sold without reserves. (Although they could still start with the reserve price)
They admit they are pretty new to this hobby but are experienced auctioneers in the toy market. I also mentioned that if they give detailed descriptions and better photos they will get more bidders on their items.
-
Ewbanks have been trying to establish themselves as a film memorabilia auction house, but they are terrible at it. And the recent BP of 33%, they can go Jump.. Maybe one of us Brits should get one up and running.
-
At the end of the day, people will run their businesses how they see fit.
The problem with many starting film memorabilia auctions is that the management don't listen.
I've been there, done it, got the t-shirt. So have a couple of very good friends who worked in the midlands and south.
It annoys me here in the UK because really, what have we got?
Compared to the US, we don't have anywhere that comes close to Heritage, Bruce and Rich.
Of all the auction houses primed for this area, I genuinely believe Vectis was the best chance for it to take off in the UK because of the space they have and capital they could have put behind it (which I might add was promised to me in the beginning). I explained before I worked for them, during and afterwards that if they did it properly they would clean up. And I still reckon they would, but until they sort out their website and dodgy bidding software they will be a laughing stock amongst many. I have friends in the US media who wouldn't help me promote the sales when I worked for Vectis because of how poor their website and bidding platform was.
My only hope is that a manager or owner of one of the auction houses in the UK chances upon the poster forums and reads what we are saying. It's about time the UK had an auction house capable of competing with the US in terms of film memorabilia.
Mate, this does read as a sorry tale.
And you're totally right about the 'nothing in the UK to compare to...' comment.
-
Ewbanks have been trying to establish themselves as a film memorabilia auction house, but they are terrible at it. And the recent BP of 33%, they can go Jump.. Maybe one of us Brits should get one up and running.
I almost did, Paul.
The only problem I had was the premises - everything else was taken care of.
I had a great auctioneer for any signature-type auctions like Heritage, as well as people for shipping, cataloguing and photography.
If I ever get enough disposable cash I will purchase a commercial building and do it.
When people who REALLY know what they're doing setup a business, it is almost always profitable across every area from sales to customer service and more.
In terms of the main auction houses, Bruce, Heritage and Rich do this very well. The others mentioned in this topic (who try very hard at times) fail on some or all of those points.
Mate, this does read as a sorry tale.
And you're totally right about the 'nothing in the UK to compare to...' comment.
It's a very sorry tale.
Ever since Cameo etc crumbled, the writing was on the wall, pardon the now-Bond pun!
Even Christie's are no more!
-
At the end of the day, people will run their businesses how they see fit.
The problem with many starting film memorabilia auctions is that the management don't listen.
I've been there, done it, got the t-shirt. So have a couple of very good friends who worked in the midlands and south.
It annoys me here in the UK because really, what have we got?
Compared to the US, we don't have anywhere that comes close to Heritage, Bruce and Rich.
Of all the auction houses primed for this area, I genuinely believe Vectis was the best chance for it to take off in the UK because of the space they have and capital they could have put behind it (which I might add was promised to me in the beginning). I explained before I worked for them, during and afterwards that if they did it properly they would clean up. And I still reckon they would, but until they sort out their website and dodgy bidding software they will be a laughing stock amongst many. I have friends in the US media who wouldn't help me promote the sales when I worked for Vectis because of how poor their website and bidding platform was.
My only hope is that a manager or owner of one of the auction houses in the UK chances upon the poster forums and reads what we are saying. It's about time the UK had an auction house capable of competing with the US in terms of film memorabilia.
Adam, out of curiosity how was Vectis set up? How many people worked for them? Was there one photographer, one doing the descriptions etc.
-
Ewbanks have been trying to establish themselves as a film memorabilia auction house, but they are terrible at it. And the recent BP of 33%, they can go Jump.. Maybe one of us Brits should get one up and running.
Paul, I thought Ewbank's latest auction had a 21% BP?
-
It annoys me here in the UK because really, what have we got?
Compared to the US, we don't have anywhere that comes close to Heritage, Bruce and Rich.
don't forget Peter at MPE who does excellent auctions or Profiles in History who also does excellent auctions
-
Paul, I think Ewbanks posters are 20% + VAT, so about 22%
The whole BP and seller fees gets me with auction house. It s a win, win no risk for them. If it sell they take from the buyer and the seller has already paid them, if it doesn't sell the seller has already paid them.
Particularly over here in the U.K. we have a rather poor selection of poster auctions. For the money they get they don't photograph or describe the items very well. I went up to Ewbanks to have a look at some of the posters and found one that had been trimmed but listed as 30x40. When I questioned it they said that it was within their limits so won't change the listing.
I just wish that we had something like EMP, HA or MPE in the UK.
Sorry to hijack the topic.
-
I went up to Ewbanks to have a look at some of the posters and found one that had been trimmed but listed as 30x40. When I questioned it they said that it was within their limits so won't change the listing.
Call me naïve, but I am shocked.
Within their limits? It either is, or it is not 30x40. FFS. Bruce must be laughing his head off at all this.
Another story was when I bought a Dr No quad from them. According to Ewbanks (and I do believe them on this), the quad was in a frame and the seller wanted the poster to be sold IN the frame. So never to have been removed for assessment prior to the auction. Accordingly, the poster was listed as 40x28 (I think).
Literally just before the auction for this quad started, Ewbanks won the argument to get the poster out and it was found to have been the full 30x40 dimensions. Had I not been following the auction, I would have left this alone as, to this point, it had been advertised as a chopped poster.
I ended up in getting it for a good price but, I daresay, only because the lot was not pulled and relisted for a later date.
That said, to be honest, perhaps the seller deserved all he got for his naivety.
-
well it is properly described as a 30x40, however it should be noted that it is now trimmed down to xxx, which is what I think we all do
-
You all have me nervous as I just purchased my first poster from Ewbank's at the recent auction this past weekend.
Needless to say, for the extremely high buyer's premium they charge, one would expect more effort and service on their part.
Better descriptions and condition details to start.
But also, I find the "figure out shipping yourself" approach taken by some of these brick-and-mortar auction houses (that happen to have an online presence) pretty annoying. Like, if you are going to have an online presence and solicit bids from non-local buyers, wouldn't you want to make it somewhat convenient for them to actually have their items shipped? Especially for a category where all the items are a uniform size and weight. How hard would it be to just state the shipping charges upfront, send me a bill, and let me pay it promptly?
I don't particularly enjoy going back and forth with various shippers in another timezone trying to figure out who I want to have pickup my item from the auction house.
Rant over.
Of course, if my poster arrives and is to my satisfaction, all will be forgiven since I got a decent deal on it :) I'll share photos when it arrives, but I don't want to jinx anything.
-
Also, back to the original topic:
Hidden reserves are silly.
I fully understand consignors may want to set a minimum price. That is fine, just make it the starting bid and don't waste everyone's time (and in a live auction, it really does waste everyone's time, including the people waiting on the later items.)
-
But also, I find the "figure out shipping yourself" approach taken by some of these brick-and-mortar auction houses (that happen to have an online presence) pretty annoying. Like, if you are going to have an online presence and solicit bids from non-local buyers, wouldn't you want to make it somewhat convenient for them to actually have their items shipped? Especially for a category where all the items are a uniform size and weight. How hard would it be to just state the shipping charges upfront, send me a bill, and let me pay it promptly?
Completely agree. It is almost a contradiction in terms to not sort out the end to end deal.
I don't particularly enjoy going back and forth with various shippers in another timezone trying to figure out who I want to have pickup my item from the auction house.
I live reasonably close to Ewbanks. If you bid and win from there, I am happy to pick it up, perform a bang-up packaging job and ship it over. Let me know.
-
for whatever reason, most auction houses do not have a shipping department & rely on third-party shippers.
I think that's foolishness.
-
don't forget Peter at MPE who does excellent auctions or Profiles in History who also does excellent auctions
Yeah, I knew about MPE, just couldn't think of it at the time!
I'm talking more about auction houses who regularly sell posters; for example, Profiles aren't like you guys.
Adam, out of curiosity how was Vectis set up? How many people worked for them? Was there one photographer, one doing the descriptions etc.
Vectis is the world's largest toy auction house so have the space and means to be a success at anything they put their hands to...or so you would think.
Vectis setup (forgetting the owner and his family) whilst I was there:
1) Manager.
2) Admin team consisting of three people; two dealt with enquiries etc, but one was responsible for marketing (bearing in mind they didn't know what they were doing), and a receptionist who is part-time.
3) One specialist typist for the cataloguing (as most of the guys use dictation machines).
The receptionist doubled up as a typist too.
4) One main photographer; a second who often helps and a third if need be.
5) The latter two photographers are the graphics guys who work on putting the catalogues and listings together for print and online.
6) The shipping team, some of whom at times, well, damaged the items (and most in there hated it when you tried to help).
7) The cataloguers themselves; anywhere between 6-9 individuals depending on the day and whether or not someone had left; each dedicated to specific areas such as Star Wars, dolls, teddy bears, James Bond toys, soldiers, tin plate, Matchbox, trains and general sales items.
8) Two little helpers, as they are called (who never owned up to any mistakes whilst I was there). I watched them, and some others in the company, damage items and none admitted to what they had done on a number of occasions - they never knew I was there because where my desk was, it was quite secluded.
Their own bidding software is diabolical. Like, really bad.
So if you see anything you like, you're best off bidding via Invaluable, telephone or in-person.
-
for whatever reason, most auction houses do not have a shipping department & rely on third-party shippers.
I think that's foolishness.
I think most auction houses primarily sell whole estates and/or antiques and want nothing to do with the logistics of shipping furniture, fragile glass wear, etc... I'm sure for the number of times they actually auction posters -- they *think* -- it's in their best financial interests just not to bother, even with the small stuff.
That said, I really, REALLY appreciate the small auction houses who do ship small items in house. I also think any auction house that regularly sells posters has no excuse not to as well.
-
Good point. Am sure we were all thinking all auction houses looked after only posters...
That said, the auction house only needs a good relationship with one shipper. End of auction, all items needing to be shipped are gathered in on corner, shipper comes into quote, auction house adds 10% to the respective invoices, everything gets shipped off to the shipper for packing and moving on.
Am sure I have simplified things and there might be a requirement for space in warehouses until everyone has paid, but... That said, I wonder if one shipper than multiple shippers stomping all over the place may be less of a headache for the auction house.
-
Good point. Am sure we were all thinking all auction houses looked after only posters...
That said, the auction house only needs a good relationship with one shipper. End of auction, all items needing to be shipped are gathered in on corner, shipper comes into quote, auction house adds 10% to the respective invoices, everything gets shipped off to the shipper for packing and moving on.
Am sure I have simplified things and there might be a requirement for space in warehouses until everyone has paid, but... That said, I wonder if one shipper than multiple shippers stomping all over the place may be less of a headache for the auction house.
True to a point. But shipping one type of collectible is not the same as another, and if a company gets vintage movie posters for the first time, they will surely make some mistakes.
Here is an extreme example. I once bought a linenbacked six-sheet and a set of lobby cards from Sotheby's. The six-sheet was $5.000 and the cards were $3,000. A few weeks after I paid a single tube arrived and, as you likely guessed, they had rolled in the cards with the six-sheet. :o
-
Well at least they didn't fold them in half!
I bet they charged an arm and a leg for shipping as well. On the only occasion I bought from Christies, back in the 1990s, they charged £40 for sending a small package within the UK, so I dread to think what Sothebys might have charged for sending overseas, or what their charges would be today.
-
True to a point. But shipping one type of collectible is not the same as another, and if a company gets vintage movie posters for the first time, they will surely make some mistakes.
Here is an extreme example. I once bought a linenbacked six-sheet and a set of lobby cards from Sotheby's. The six-sheet was $5.000 and the cards were $3,000. A few weeks after I paid a single tube arrived and, as you likely guessed, they had rolled in the cards with the six-sheet. :o
That's absolutely shocking Bruce.
-
regarding reserves, if you bid your max, then it doesnt matter really does it? you win or lose or reserve not met. But either way, you werent gonna pay more, so who cares?
Not that i bid on valuable shit anyway, so my thoughts are probably worthless.
-
regarding reserves, if you bid your max, then it doesnt matter really does it? you win or lose or reserve not met. But either way, you werent gonna pay more, so who cares?
Not that i bid on valuable shit anyway, so my thoughts are probably worthless.
True, I suppose the end result is the same. But getting your hopes up and being disappointed kind of sucks.
-
yeah, I bet.
-
Evening chaps.
So today I took a look at Excalibur Auctions. They had a few items that I liked the look of so I thought I'd try and win them. After I left my first bid I was notified that I was in the lead but hadn't met the reserve. Realising this was a 'reserve' auction kind of put me off so I didn't bother with any other bids.
To me Excalibur would have been better off putting the required first bid the same as the hidden reserve price if they are going to have reserves. As I left after entering my first bid I don't know how successful the auction was but I am willing to bet lots of things were left unsold.
I was just wondering what other people think of 'reserve' auctions both as a buyer and seller? (and this doesn't mean some people can hijack this thread to mention they offer no reserve auctions) :)
Marc
I think many collectors just skip over these and move on. I still recall on ebay, years ago, how many of these kinds of auctions were listed. They seem to have faded away there, to a great degree. Every now and then, I'd place a couple bids, just to plug in a number, but after a few entries and still seeing that blue "reserve not met" text, I'd also (and still do) move on.
I wonder if HA has seen a decrease in the number of movie poster consignments that have a resereve over the years? I did see a handful in the last Signature auction, but the vast majority were "no reserve."