All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => Restoration => Topic started by: Movie Poster Exchange on June 02, 2014, 01:11:40 PM
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Has anyone ever heard of or used a studio called Fourth Cone? I received an email from them and checked out their site. Curious to know if anyone is familiar. Their FAQ states two troubling things: they dont assume responsibility/loss for your material while in their possession and they expect full payment before releasing the material.
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Given those two troubling things, why go further?
It sounds like the old joke: “Two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions."
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they dont assume responsibility/loss for your material while in their possession
looked at their site.. cross them off the list
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From doing a little cross research on the owners, I'm pretty sure that all 3 are former employees of Poster Mountain.
here's the website addy: http://www.fourthconerestoration.com/
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They dont have a lot of examples in their before and after portfolio, but here is one for The Seven Samurai. Looking at other examples online, I think this is a B2 for the 1975RR but they have it listed as an original '54 release on their site.:
(http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q719/spitfire3992/7Sbeforeafter_zpsb0e263bc.jpg)
I found a rolled copy on ebay, also listed as the '75RR:
(http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q719/spitfire3992/SevenSamuraiR75_JapB2_zps24a54b9d.jpg)
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Well their prices seem very reasonable and I'm tired of paying $200 (including all mailing back and forth) for easy linen-backing, so I'll give them a chance on my next project.
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All three are the girls that were at poster mountain:
http://www.postermountain.blogspot.com/2011/09/welcome-to-poster-mountain.html
Somebody needs to put together a family tree... Wasn't Poster Mountain a break away from another fella as well as a couple of other restorers...
I am sure pre-made wallpaper paste and acrylic pencils will follow them over to the new place too.
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^Yes. I too read it is run by women.
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Their website makes that clear. ;D
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Their website makes that clear. ;D
Fourth cone clear... ;D
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Putting together so-called "family trees" for ALL the companies (not just poster restoration co's) that have started this way might take a while.
And I wonder what brand of pre-made wallpaper paste PM uses? Home Depot? eyeroll2
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And in California "covenants not to compete" are unenforceable so it's impossible to stop your employees from setting up competing businesses. In other states employers can make employees agree not to set up competing businesses in certain fields and/or geographic areas.
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From doing a little cross research on the owners, I'm pretty sure that all 3 are former employees of Poster Mountain.
here's the website addy: http://www.fourthconerestoration.com/
yes, so that means they should be doing good work.. but that insurance thingy is pretty objectionable and I would recommend they fix that.
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Agree... that they take no responsibility for one's posters, while in their care, isn't a good thing.
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And I wonder what brand of pre-made wallpaper paste PM uses? Home Depot? eyeroll2
(https://d131fdiz3j4gax.cloudfront.net/product-images/normal/gardner-gibson-dynamite-785-heavy-duty-clear-strippable-wallcovering-adhesive-7785-3-20)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IiFg5hURWQ4/TonQLc2X6tI/AAAAAAAAAFk/lKckLJPl1Ns/s1600/DSC_0100.JPG)
I don't see any other reason there would be 10 5-gallon buckets of the stuff in this picture. But I am sure that they must be either doing wall paper on the side or getting buckets (for what reason) from a wallpaper crew after they are done.
One could also assume they use spackle for paperfills...
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,6736.msg126863.html#msg126863
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I emailed and asked John about this. He wrote me back & said they do prepare their own wheat paste and also do use this product. He said it is acid-free, and is made with an added carboxy-methyl cellulose (which paper conservators use, when mending paper). He also said it is also very easily reversible.
I can't imagine that the product was chosen randomly "off the shelf." I'm sure there were research-type discussions or emails between PM and the manufacturer's (Gardner-Gibson) chemist about its use with old and vintage (poster) paper, prior to them choosing to use it.
And on any poster, newer or older, let alone very rare or expensive pieces.
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He also said it is also very easily reversible.
reversible ????? NO
removable, yes.. but only for remounting again as any other purpose would be 1000% self defeating
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reversible ????? NO
removable, yes.. but only for remounting again as any other purpose would be 1000% self defeating
Yes,... oops... ;)
water soluble and easily removable... if something would need to be re-backed down the road.
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I emailed and asked John about this. He wrote me back & said they do prepare their own wheat paste and also do use this product. He said it is acid-free, and is made with an added carboxy-methyl cellulose (which paper conservators use, when mending paper). He also said it is also very easily reversible.
I can't imagine that the product was chosen randomly "off the shelf." I'm sure there were research-type discussions or emails between PM and the manufacturer's (Gardner-Gibson) chemist about its use with old and vintage (poster) paper, prior to them choosing to use it.
And on any poster, newer or older, let alone very rare or expensive pieces.
Research, research, research... If I were to send something I would make sure and ask for the wheat paste. There is a lot of stuff in that mix that may not hold up. Who knows when it might break down, maybe not. It is also acid neutral-ish pH 6-7. Acid free is used so loosely these days. However wheat paste before being buffered is 5 - 6.5... I would have to check the pH after buffering it and after cooking it. Another experiment to add to the list.
http://www.gardner-gibson.com/files/uploads/7785_DY_TDS.pdf
Here is one that I think those who do use wheat paste, use:
http://talasonline.com/photos/instructions/aytex-P_info.pdf
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http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/sg/bpg/annual/v01/bp01-04.html
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Hey all, I wanted to give the ladies at Fourth Cone a shout out for the quality of work that was done on 3 pieces I gave them recently. They were professional, very reasonably priced, and the results speak for themselves. All in all, a great experience, highly recommended, and I would use them again in a heart beat :)
Here is the before and after of Postman and Purple Noon, basically just linen-backed. They were pretty mint so not much restoration was needed:
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/postman1_zps2ec01630.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/postman1_zps2ec01630.jpg.html)
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/postmanalwaysringstwiceafter_zpsfcf7cd87.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/postmanalwaysringstwiceafter_zpsfcf7cd87.jpg.html)
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/lf6NZ22DBJ_zps6ede5d61.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/lf6NZ22DBJ_zps6ede5d61.jpg.html)
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/purplenoonafter_zps1b298993.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/purplenoonafter_zps1b298993.jpg.html)
The most work went into the Pressbook cover for I live my life. I was really wowed when I saw it. The fold line is almost non-existent, and they only had to do minimal touch-up to the yellow back ground to fix some foxing and water stains. Amazing :)
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/misc_i_live_my_life_a_HP07462_L_zpse267f470.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/misc_i_live_my_life_a_HP07462_L_zpse267f470.jpg.html)
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/ilivemylifeafter_zps12a3e782.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/ilivemylifeafter_zps12a3e782.jpg.html)
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All 3 look really great, Brian.
Congrats!
thumbsup.gif
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Brian, thanks so much for sharing! Quick question, what kind of linen is it ? Hard -thick or medium -thick linen linen?
And is it different a LB for your pressbook cover?
have to say. They are just 3 stunning posters.
hate you blowingkiss.gif
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All three look great
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Thanks everyone! Yeah, today was a good day :)
Rosa, the posters are on the thicker linen, not the linen I have seen in most European posters that is thinner and causes the poster to crinkle some.
The Pressbook cover was gel-backed, which means there is no visible backing, just a few thin strips of paper to reinforce certain parts.
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Thanks. Very helpful. Really stunning looking, posters and pressbook. Yessssir.
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Has anyone ever heard of or used a studio called Fourth Cone? I received an email from them and checked out their site. Curious to know if anyone is familiar. Their FAQ states two troubling things: they dont assume responsibility/loss for your material while in their possession and they expect full payment before releasing the material.
Peter, did you ever opt to give them a try? If so, how were your results?
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Once again, I need to sing the praises of the women at Fourth Cone Restoration. They recently worked on my Marked Woman window card, and I couldn't be happier with the results. They took a very light approach to the restoration, and listened to every concern I had after the TRULY AWFUL experience I had with Mario Cueva. I think the results speak for themselves. The piece still looks old, which was important to me, but it has been given new life. Seriously, you should all consider using them for your restoration needs! bed1 bed1 bed1
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/Marked%20Woman%20WC_zpswoy6srlx.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/Marked%20Woman%20WC_zpswoy6srlx.jpg.html)
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/Marked%20Woman%20WC%20restored_zps8vmhsium.png) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/Marked%20Woman%20WC%20restored_zps8vmhsium.png.html)
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Looks great, Brian. thumbsup.gif
Was there a reason you didn't want to retain any of the info that was written in the imprint space at the top?
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If it had been a stamp or at least well-written, I most definitely would have made an effort to keep it. But half of it was missing, and it was just kind of chicken scratch anyway. In the end, I decided that it detracted from the piece, so I had them cover it.
Thanks, I'm super pleased with how it turned out. They definitely do amazing work.
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I see what you are saying, and it's all about how it feels, visually, at the end of the day.
'Tis beautiful, indeed. bed1
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Yeah, I gave it a lot of thought, and you know, the HISTORY of the piece and the story it tells matters a lot to me. I love when a window card has the theater info and play date at the top. That's what usually makes the piece so interesting to me.
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Yeah... knowing, and appreciating the history of a piece, and those added details which can give added dimension.
What caught my eye was the handwritten dates, and I also really liked the handwritten: "-Also- Pathe' News And Selected Shorts," too.
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They did a really nice job on the bottom section, too.
Were all of the borders airbrushed to match the top imprint area?
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No, they just did spot touch ups with the airbrush. You can tell if you hold it at an angle, but not if you look dead on. I just wanted as much of the original paper to show through, even if it meant not having a seamless restoration.
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Starling, who it the woman in your avatar?
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The lovely and talented Oscar-nominee Rooney Mara. :)
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The lovely and talented Oscar-nominee Rooney Mara. :)
Wow! She played Lizbeth. Hardly recognized her here - beautiful. Your av always strikes me when I see it...
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Once again, I need to sing the praises of the women at Fourth Cone Restoration. They recently worked on my Marked Woman window card, and I couldn't be happier with the results. They took a very light approach to the restoration, and listened to every concern I had after the TRULY AWFUL experience I had with Mario Cueva. I think the results speak for themselves. The piece still looks old, which was important to me, but it has been given new life. Seriously, you should all consider using them for your restoration needs! bed1 bed1 bed1
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/Marked%20Woman%20WC_zpswoy6srlx.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/Marked%20Woman%20WC_zpswoy6srlx.jpg.html)
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj561/bddavis81/Marked%20Woman%20WC%20restored_zps8vmhsium.png) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bddavis81/media/Marked%20Woman%20WC%20restored_zps8vmhsium.png.html)
Perfect, just perfect. Perfection. And yes, if a restorer doesn't do the work quite right for you....move on... next!
There are good people out there and you clearly found the right team.
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I loved her as Lizbeth. I wish they could make the other 2 with Fincher, but that seems like a long-shot at this point.
Thanks so much Rosa! I am truly lucky I began using their services, and want everyone to know how great they are so they can have a similar experience. Great work and customer service should be celebrated! ;D
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Brian, it looks like your pics in this thread and all your other posts, have vanished.
Did you have a technical photobucket calamity, similar to what happened to our Mr Waines?
If you need help getting pics plugged back into your posts, let me know. ;)
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So I struggled with picking who to have linen back and restore my 3-sheet, and wound up with Fourth Cone. Figured I would chime in and add some good words for others thinking about them. Overall, I am thrilled with how good it looks, and felt they listened to what I wanted fixed, didn't do more than I asked for, and really knocked it out of the park in my opinion. The Linen is really thick, was shipped very well, and hangs in it's new frame great.
Post Linen Backing:
(http://i.imgur.com/SwDaRSX.jpg)
Final Product (I wanted to keep the fold lines):
(http://i.imgur.com/zA9MsPd.jpg)
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Looks like they did a really nice job. thumbsup.gif
Keeping some of the fold lines visible was a nice touch, too, to show some of its history. Restore-wise, what did you ask them to do, and leave alone (aside from the fold lines)? Bits of retouching here and there?
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Unfortunately, I was pretty vague in what I wanted I think. I mostly just blabbered on about keeping some of the 'wear and age'... ;D
To be a little more specific, I asked them to clean up some pen marks on the back from the theater that showed through, patch some missing paper along the bottom edge, and fill in the holes along the corner folds making sure it matches the printing patterns. For a perfect restoration, they recommended spraying a lot of the bottom section to make the patched paper match the rest of the border and to cover up the stains along the folds, but I declined to save a little money. And with how it came out before the spraying I was happy enough just leaving it as is. Even without the spray, the paper infill along the edge looks great to my eye.
I was really impressed with the patching on the sea serpent's face and in the sea below the boat. In both of those places, there is a lot of printing texture (dots of color - whatever those are called) and they made sure that the patches matched really well. It's not 100% perfect, but definitely a solid A+ quality work.
From normal viewing distance, it looks flawless, from 2-6 feet away, it has just the right amount of character, and at 1 foot, it takes a while to find the patches.
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Unfortunately, I was pretty vague in what I wanted I think. I mostly just blabbered on about keeping some of the 'wear and age'... ;D
To be a little more specific, I asked them to clean up some pen marks on the back from the theater that showed through, patch some missing paper along the bottom edge, and fill in the holes along the corner folds making sure it matches the printing patterns. For a perfect restoration, they recommended spraying a lot of the bottom section to make the patched paper match the rest of the border and to cover up the stains along the folds, but I declined to save a little money. And with how it came out before the spraying I was happy enough just leaving it as is. Even without the spray, the paper infill along the edge looks great to my eye.
I was really impressed with the patching on the sea serpent's face and in the sea below the boat. In both of those places, there is a lot of printing texture (dots of color - whatever those are called) and they made sure that the patches matched really well. It's not 100% perfect, but definitely a solid A+ quality work.
From normal viewing distance, it looks flawless, from 2-6 feet away, it has just the right amount of character, and at 1 foot, it takes a while to find the patches.
I would have declined the additional airbrushing, too, unless the staining caused a MAJOR eyesore. The "dipped in paint" look with airbrushed borders looking like a freshly painted wall was never my cuppa tea, either. Some restorers seem to do this, almost as matter of fact. Not good, imho, unless it's specifically asked for or wanted.
I think the touch ups you had them do to the offset printed (the dot pattern you mentioned) artwork itself (the dragon's face, the couple areas in the water etc) while allowing hints of the fold lines to show through was a great choice, too.
You didnt have them make it look pristine or like some reproduced print.
Bravo! clap clap
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Fourth Cone did an awesome job for me as well on a Taxi Driver B2.
I'm a stickler for detail, so I emailed them a lot attempting to explain what I did and did not want done to the poster. They were very accommodating, with killer customer service everytime. I never got the feeling they were annoyed, or tired of my mail in anyway.
The poster had some discoloration around the edges, most notably the upper left, and a decent sized ink blot in the middle of the "I" in driver. I asked them to back it, fix the discoloration, and fix the ink blot. A very light restor all-in-all. They did an excellent job in every regard. Where the discoloration was blended seamlessly into the the body of the poster, the inkblot stain isn't noticeable at all, and the poster was well backed and evenly cut.
On top of all that, I asked them to take photos during the process, just b/c I thought it would be interesting and they were happy to oblige. Here are a few of them...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/gb3lb1vg94dt3tb/Untitled%20image%20%284%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrct3jl1djqm9ph/Untitled%20image%20%285%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/2wb183td0qfl2td/Untitled%20image%20%286%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/f70gfp87yrg20u9/Untitled%20image%20%281%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/jztf3x808a2402z/Untitled%20image%20%283%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/x3y8whq8q0ieji0/Untitled%20image%20%282%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/oihxnt4vj527ia7/Taxi%20Driver_Restoration%204sm.jpg?raw=1)
I'd use them again in a heartbeat!
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Awesome "in progress" pics there, Chris!
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Fourth Cone did an awesome job for me as well on a Taxi Driver B2.
I'm a stickler for detail, so I emailed them a lot attempting to explain what I did and did not want done to the poster. They were very accommodating, with killer customer service everytime. I never got the feeling they were annoyed, or tired of my mail in anyway.
The poster had some discoloration around the edges, most notably the upper left, and a decent sized ink blot in the middle of the "I" in driver. I asked them to back it, fix the discoloration, and fix the ink blot. A very light restor all-in-all. They did an excellent job in every regard. Where the discoloration was blended seamlessly into the the body of the poster, the inkblot stain isn't noticeable at all, and the poster was well backed and evenly cut.
On top of all that, I asked them to take photos during the process, just b/c I thought it would be interesting and they were happy to oblige. Here are a few of them...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/gb3lb1vg94dt3tb/Untitled%20image%20%284%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrct3jl1djqm9ph/Untitled%20image%20%285%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/2wb183td0qfl2td/Untitled%20image%20%286%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/f70gfp87yrg20u9/Untitled%20image%20%281%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/jztf3x808a2402z/Untitled%20image%20%283%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/x3y8whq8q0ieji0/Untitled%20image%20%282%29sm.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/oihxnt4vj527ia7/Taxi%20Driver_Restoration%204sm.jpg?raw=1)
I'd use them again in a heartbeat!
Chris, How did this one look and turn out, when all was said and done? Any post- Fourth Cone pics?? wynk
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The post backing poster looks fantastic, couldn't' be happier. I'll have to take some pics soon.
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Awesome, Chris. Sounds like you are totally jazzed by the work they did for you.
I look forward.