All Poster Forum
Collecting and Collectibles in Other Areas => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dr Hackenbush on February 25, 2010, 05:40:55 PM
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Some of you may have heard about the Action Comics #1 8.0 the sold for 1M dollars a few days ago. Well, the second million dollar comic was just sold by Heritage Auctions. It was a copy of Detective Comics #27 8.0, the fist appearance of Batman. This copy is tied for the highest graded with one other. At the end of online bidding, the book was at $425,000. Live bidding began this afternoon for the first session that included the Tec 27. Once the frenzy of bids was over, the book closed at $900,000 (1,075,500 with BP) :o The second book within a few days to break the 1M dollar barrier.
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So where are you going to display both of them Angelo?
;)
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In the poor house with the rest of my possessions lol It's funny, I've been looking forward to the Heritage Signature Movie Poster auction more than the comic one. Guess I got the movie paper bug more than the comic one right now, Chris. Might even go after a couple of lots in there.
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Are the million dollar comics encased in that sealed plexi-glass thing (I don't know what it's called)? I understand that collectible comics are sealed in that plastic casing once they've been authenticated and graded so that if you break the casing to get to the actual comic, you've nullified the grading. It seems awfully defeating and sad if you can't even touch your own comic that you spent $1 million on. For that amount, I'd put the comic on my chest and let it soak up my body oil so that it becomes mine, all mine!
Did you make a bid for it, Angelo? I bet it was exciting to watch the bidding on that one.
Jeannie
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Both books were slabbed (in a CGC case), Jeannie. I didn't put in any thrill bid on the Tec 27, but I didn't put some laughable bids on a couple of other books. Within a couple of days of the start of bidding, the Tec 27 was over 200K. I thought it would sell between 450-500K. The sale of the Action 1 spurred this book to reach 1M, in my opinion. Watching the bidding on Heritage Live was pretty exciting as it began the day at 425K before BP (507K+ with BP). Never would I have thought it would reach or exceed the 1M mark. It was a historic event, to be sure. Does Heritage do the live feed during movie poster Signature auctions? That would be fun to watch
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In the poor house with the rest of my possessions lol It's funny, I've been looking forward to the Heritage Signature Movie Poster auction more than the comic one. Guess I got the movie paper bug more than the comic one right now, Chris. Might even go after a couple of lots in there.
Good to hear Angelo. We need more converts ;)
The bug is highly contagious...
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Does Heritage do the live feed during movie poster Signature auctions? That would be fun to watch
Yes, they definitely do... Very exciting indeed!
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Here it is:
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/Batman.jpg)
Buying a permanently-encased comic book is ALMOST as crazy as buying a movie poster and NOT framing it :D
P.S. Why does Heritage bother with movie posters? They probably made more $$$$ on these comics tonight than in a year of selling movie posters.
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Half of their take in the first session was from that one book. If I remember correctly, comics/comic art comprise about 4% of their yearly sales. I'm sure Heritage wants to be players in as many collectible/antique markets as they can, including movie paper.
One thing to consider about slabbing books like the Tec 27 is that the stories inside have been reprinted dozens of times. Granted, there's nothing like opening and paging through a vintage book, but if you had a poster worth 1M would you have it archivally framed or would unroll & roll it every time you wanted to show it off? When you get into six-figure and up territory, you have to think about preservation. If you should have a mishap that results in damage, it doesn't affect the poster as restoration isn't frowned upon as much as in comics. If this comic was raw (unslabbed) and suffered damage, the grade - consequently the price - would go down. And if the owner opted to get the damage addressed by a restorer, the book would be worth 1/2 to 1/4 what it is now. Also, CGC has given people the confidence that the book doesn't have any hidden restoration (remember what I just said about the value of restored books). There are enough stories about unscrupulous people selling high value comics, with undisclosed resto, as unrestored. Unfortunately, quite a few people only found out about the resto after they sent their books to CGC, like the owner of this book (http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=825&Lot_No=44228). I know of quite a few collectors that buy slabbed books, crack them out and read them. Hell, I paged through a friend's copy of Action 1 (yes, it's an authentic copy of the book) and it was an amazing experience as I hadn't held a real one before. I was scared to death as I knew it was worth a bundle, but my friend was like "Don't worry about it. The book is extensively restored. You can't do anything to it that can't be fixed." Aside from the Superman story, most of the other stories are in b&w (monochrome, for our UK friends). I never knew that as those stories are never included in reprints, so I have an appreciation for raw books. But I also understand that once you get into that rarified air, collectibles sometimes become commodities. As such, preservation takes priority above all else.
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If you have a $1M to spend on a comic book, you probably have another $50k you can put towards a beat up version to read ;D
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No joke. Even a coverless copy will suffice if all you want to do is have an original copy to read
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Granted, there's nothing like opening and paging through a vintage book, but if you had a poster worth 1M would you have it archivally framed or would unroll & roll it every time you wanted to show it off?
I just cannot understand this argument at all. It's like:
- owning a Ferrari - and NEVER driving it, not even once;
- marrying Angelina Jolie - and NEVER, er, touching her, not even once;
- owning a vacation home in Hawaii, and NEVER visiting it or using it, not even once
A comic book has a function - it's meant to be read, viewed, perused, etc. Locking it up fundamentally thwarts its primary raison d'etre. I could understand if it were a pure, short-term investment. But the price has irrationally zoomed from 300K to 1M and it most likely will take DECADES for the market to catch up.
And the same thing goes for movie posters, by the way. Buying an expensive poster, storing it in a cabinet, and occasionally pulling it out and glancing at it occasionally is inexplicable to me. But that's a fight for another day....
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If you are going on "original purpose" of the item, those are probably bad analogies... for collectibles, it is probably more like:
Having an expensive stamp collection and never using them to mail packages (not even once! ;))
Having a rare coin and never using it as legal tender!
Having a rare movie poster and never using to advertise a showing of the film!
We are a funny lot, aren't we!
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If you are going on "original purpose" of the item, those are probably bad analogies... for collectibles, it is probably more like:
Having an expensive stamp collection and never using them to mail packages (not even once! ;))
Having a rare coin and never using it as legal tender!
Having a rare movie poster and never using to advertise a showing of the film!
We are a funny lot, aren't we!
Not the same - in your first two examples your suggested actions would instantly ruin the item's value. The third example is a good idea for a party!
You could buy a pair of gloves and peruse an expensive comic book and not damage it.
By the way, the National Archives are just a few blocks away from me. They display the Consitution and Declaration of Independence - which are priceless - despite the small risk a determined miscreant could damage them.
But I get your point - ultimately it's an unresolvable theological dispute. I'm a utilitarian/displayer and youse guys are pure accumulators.
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Not all of us can display every poster we own!
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The price hasn't gone from 317K to 1M. The 317K was for an copy of Action 1 in 6.0 (Fine) condition and the copy that just sold was in 8.0 (VF) condition. Consider also that there's only one unrestored copy currently graded higher at 8.5 (VF+) and you'll understand why collectors place a premium on these copies. People can do whatever they want with what they own, but if you have a rare Ferrari with only one other example known, and you total it in a vintage race, good luck getting a replacement. The best copy of Action 1 hasn't been slabbed and probably never will. Does that mean that the owner takes it out every day and reads it? Highly doubt it. I know of people that have handled it and looked through it, so he does show it off when he wishes, but that's his choice to make. I don't begrudge him either way. Were it me, there's no way in hell I'd want people handling a raw copy of that book. You can show it off easier in the slab. Besides, who the fuck wants to read the Scoop Scanlon or Sticky-Mitt Stimson stories. The only story that matters is the Superman one, and it's been reprinted.
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Not the same - in your first two examples your suggested actions would instantly ruin the item's value. The third example is a good idea for a party!
You could buy a pair of gloves and peruse an expensive comic book and not damage it.
By the way, the National Archives are just a few blocks away from me. They display the Consitution and Declaration of Independence - which are priceless - despite the small risk a determined miscreant could damage them.
But I get your point - ultimately it's an unresolvable theological dispute. I'm a utilitarian/displayer and youse guys are pure accumulators.
Nic Cage was a displayer at one point, too, until his copies of Tec 27 and Action 1 were stolen from his house during a party. I know the A1 is still unaccounted for, not sure about the Tec 27. Gloves don't keep a book from slipping out of your hands or have a corner/edge snare on the mylar sleeve, Mel. I know of one 40k book becoming a 15K because of that.
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The best copy of Action 1 hasn't been slabbed and probably never will.
He hath taken the path of the righteous!
Like I said, it's an unresolvable theological dispute:
(http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/RootWeb/VirginToast0.gif)
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Hey, Guys,
I thought Angelo's topic thread brought up the need for a Board section that was specifically for collecting talk in other areas besides posters. And, this is a really interesting discussion, too.
So, I've created a new section and will move this thread to that, as its being in the Off-topic area is kind of diminishing it.
Jeannie
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Thanks for doing that, Jeannie.
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I actually feel both ways about this: wanting to protect the ultra-rare $1 million prized acquisition in as preserved condition as possible and wanting to touch, breathe on, and imprint it with my DNA.
I spent what I consider to be a lot of money for a Battlestar Galactica's Sharon's hero bloodied dog tags and, for that kind of money, enjoy it by wearing the darn things (to work where I showed it off!) But, because it's a prop with blood (albeit stage) and is one-of-a-kind because of that, I didn't want it to lose the blood that made it unique and so decided that I really needed to protect it somehow. I have yet to figure out a case for it.
I'm thinking the same as Harry, though. I had already decided to get another set of hero BSG dog tags that I can wear with impunity! That makes me sooooooo happy.
Jeannie
P.S. No problem, Angelo. It's a good discussion that applies to every collecting we do.
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I feel the same way, actually. I've looked through and read all of the books I've gotten slabbed for my collection, which aren't many (15-20). The core of my collection consists of about 320 or so books, 285+ are raw. Usually the only time I'll slab a book is either to sell it or if I'm putting a run together, but I always page through them and enjoy 'em
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I knew that Nicolas Cage had a pretty impressive comics collection. And I'd heard that he sold (rather, had to sell) it. I had no idea about his stolen comics. Any further details about possible suspects, on-going investigations, etc? That must have hurt, because I hear that Nic Cage is quite passionate about these things and collects for the right reasons rather than for investment.
And, was the $1 million for the Superman comic inclusive of the buyer's premium. How do the two Batman and Superman measure up with regards to Hammer price and then hammer price + BP ?
Jeannie
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The Action 1 was a fixed price listing, most likely the deal was done behind the scenes and the book put on ComicConnect (http://www.comicconnect.com/newsletters/images/action_comics_1_sale.html) to publicize the site. The Tec 27 sold at Heritage for 900K, 1.075M with the BP. I'm not sure how much, if any, commission CC got for the sale of the A1 as I've heard conflicting stories. One is that they brokered the deal between the seller and buyer, and I've also heard that they bought the book back and then sold it to the new owner. Not sure which is true.
Nic Cage had amassed quite an impressive collection that was sold through Heritage on 10 Oct 2002 (http://comics.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Ne=1154&Ntk=SI_Titles&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchall&y=0&N=52+790+231+1060+4294956404&x=0). Keep in mind that Cage had 2 copies of Action 1, the one in the auction and the one that was stolen (about a VF). Here's the story (http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1555345/site_id/1#import) from the comic forum I'm on. As an aside, the person telling the story is the same person that brokered the sale of the million dollar Action 1. Rumor had it that the theft was one of the factors that influenced Cage to sell off his collection.
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Thanks for the link to info, Angelo. Fascinating -- that someone who had access to Cage's home took the opportunity to steal from him. Oh, to know the people you let into your house....
Are you planning on watching the Live Heritage Signature Auction in March? I went in 2006 and have some photos of that and even provided a live feed thread back to NSFGE to tell people what was going on that couldn't be seen on the videocam. I'd only attended one other Live Auction. I have to say that it's interesting and fun the first time around, but it's not that exciting in person after that, not because of Heritage, but because poster collectors are kind of a subdued lot at this. I was bidding online during the second of the Live Battlestar Galactica auctions and I was so pumped, because the exciting energy seen through the video feed was palpable.
Jeannie
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I'm going to make every effort to watch it, Jeannie. I've seen a few of the comic ones, so I'll be interested to watch my first movie poster live bidding. We have a forum member on the comic board that does the same as you, play by play (results, actually) for those that can't watch. Discussing the results as they happen adds a certain excitement to the happenings.
Having someone rip you off that you've allowed into your house must make one feel violated (and pissed). The fact that they were behind security glass leads me to believe that whoever did it had prior knowledge of Cage's house and had this planned out. With Cage dropping the investigation, speculation was that he discovered it was someone he knew and was just so disappointed/disillusioned with that revelation, he sold off his comics, cars, etc.
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Well, I'm sure disillusionment due to the theft wasn't the only reason he sold off his comic book collection. He apparently owes the IRS 6+ million in back taxes (back to 2002) and his spending habits are definitely part of the problem (http://www.popeater.com/2009/11/05/nicolas-cage-spending-habits/). If you recall, many of the best pieces in the signature auction last March (2009) were from Cage's poster collection, including two Dracula 1-sheets... an original (3 copies known) and an awesome only-known R38 as well. I think a combination of the reigning in of his spending habits and his tax debts must be contributing to these high profile sales...
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At the time, people speculated that Lisa Marie made him sell the books (they had recently been married), but I highly doubt that was true. Recently Cage had stated that he had gotten too obsessed with possessions at that point in his life, and he realized it wasn't healthy and needed to purge himself of them. I'm sure it's a combination of factors. These thing often are.
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I, too, was told that the reason Cage sold his comics collection was because Lisa Marie told him to, which just seemed strange to me, for a couple of reasons. A person would have to be a very cold, non-empathetic, non-understanding person to force one's spouse to sell something that he/she loved and that he/she acquired before their marriage. It would be like forcing your spouse to give up a beloved pet. I don't know these people at all, but I just couldn't imagine a new wife doing that to her husband. And, I would have thought that Cage would have put up a fight about that and resisted. Oh, who knows? It's all speculation unless Cage announced his reasons.
Jeannie
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The ironic thing is that her dad, the King, collected comics as a kid and was such a big fan of Captain Marvel Jr that he modeled his hair style after him, specifically the hair hanging down in the front
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Now that is an interesting piece of trivia. Do you know what happened to Elvis's comics collection? Did he collect anything else?
What other celebrity collects comics? It surprised me when I found out that a physician colleague collected them. Not just a particular comic subject, but every current comic that came out. He simply had his comics store gather the weekly releases and then he'd come in on a biweekly or monthly basis to retrieve them. I had my comics store do the same for me for the Star Wars comics, but after a few years, when I acknowledged that I wasn't actually reading these comics, which are now sitting in boxes in storage, I stopped collecting them. Comics simply don't hold the same thrill for me as posters, and I wouldn't have started in the first place if it hadn't been for Star Wars.
Jeannie
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The comics are stored in the attic at Graceland. I really hope it's ventilated as comics are so easily affected by environmental conditions over time.
Off the top of my head I know Leo DiCaprio, Seth Green, Samuel L. Jackson, Miguel Ferrer, Drew Rosennhaus (sports agent), Sebastian Bach, Rob Zombie, Glenn Danzig, and many more. Here's (http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770471&fpart=1) an old thread where people listed a few. Ian Levine (http://) has collected a copy of every DC comic ever produced to this day.
I hear what you're saying about comics. I'm in the same boat, actually. I've been collecting comics for years and while I still enjoy doing so, it's gotten a by stale for me. Movie paper, because it's so new, really has me invigorated and excited, hence the reason I've bought more movie stuff than comics the past few months (haven't bought any comics, actually).
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Ive got a few thousand comics,None very rare that I know of, mainly Horror comics and stuff like Planet of the Apes, whatever, you know my taste I just spent years buying them from garage sales and junk shops, also subscribing to stuff like 2000AD, Fantastic 4, Beano, never cared about values, I bought to read. As said on Mopo I hate the idea of slabbing comics. They are meant to be read.
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Thanks, Angelo. The link to Ian Levine doesn't work, btw.
So where do you keep your 1000 comics, Ari? From the photos of your house, you've filled it up already with 1000's of books.
Not quite in the league of comics or posters but take a look at this: $40,000 Nintendo video game: http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/rare-nintendo-game-is-40-000-windfall/1391148 (http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/rare-nintendo-game-is-40-000-windfall/1391148).
No slabbing for this little puppy, but you can never open or play it if you want to keep it at this value.
Jeannie
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Hm, let's try this again Ian Levine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Levine)
I've seen that game and what it fetched. Pretty amazing!
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most of my comics are in boxes thousands of miles away at my Dads house,dont really read or buy them anymore, one day Ill get them shipped over, maybe. All been read many times, so I don't care much.
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Well, that record price for the Tec 27 8.0 will most likely soon be eclipsed. In fact, it already has…but not on a public site. ComicConnect will soon have a fixed price listing for the highest graded Action 1, an 8.5 with Off White to White page quality. It was reportedly bought for more than the 1.075M the Tec 27 sold for. Speculation is that the asking price will be in the neighborhood of 1.5-2M
(http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/plutrario/Action1CGC85.jpg)
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Jerry Siegel was my great uncle. The story of how DC comics acquired the Superman character is a very sad one for him and Joe Shuster. They received $65 apiece when they sold the rights to DC in 1938. I met him a couple of times when I was a kid, but didnt really understand the implications of who he was or what he did. He was a very nice man.
Schan
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Jerry Siegel was my great uncle. The story of how DC comics acquired the Superman character is a very sad one for him and Joe Shuster. They received $65 apiece when they sold the rights to DC in 1938. I met him a couple of times when I was a kid, but didnt really understand the implications of who he was or what he did. He was a very nice man.
Schan
Good news. Siegel's estate has been engaged in litigation for years with Time Warner & DC Comics and has recaptured some of the Superman rights (http://www.frosszelnick.com/ourinsights/selected/superman). Also, at some point he did begin receiving $20,000 a year for life.
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Jerry Siegel was my great uncle. The story of how DC comics acquired the Superman character is a very sad one for him and Joe Shuster. They received $65 apiece when they sold the rights to DC in 1938. I met him a couple of times when I was a kid, but didnt really understand the implications of who he was or what he did. He was a very nice man.
Schan
All creators operated on a work-for-hire basis and, as such, gave up all rights for steady employment. The only one that had a stake in his creation was Bob Kane, and that was due to his father getting involved in the writing of the contract. Courts have since changed their stance on this issue, due in large part to the Seigel estate's lawsuit.
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Well that record didnt last long:
After a short reign as the highest-priced comic book at $1,075,500, Detective Comics #27 (May 39, the first appearance of Batman) has been bested again by the sale of a higher-grade copy of Action Comics #1 (Jun 38, the first appearance of Superman), for $1.5 million.
ComicConnect.com, which brokered the first $1 million sale for a copy of Action Comics #1 Feb. 22 (You can read more about that sale here.), sold a second copy of the historically significant issue on March 29. This time, the copy was graded 8.5 (Very Fine+) by Certified Guaranty Company (CGC). The firm acquired the book only a few days earlier.
ComicConnect.com co-owner and COO Vincent Zurzolo said, "This new record will be hard to break, because this particular Action Comics #1 is literally the single most valuable comic book on the planet."
In contrast to the two record-breaking sales in late February, where both the Action #1 and the Detective #27 were each CGC-graded 8.0 (Very Fine), there are no copies of Detective Comics #27 that are graded higher than 8.0.
This 8.5 copy of Action #1 was tucked inside a movie magazine for more than 50 years and surfaced in the late 1980s, when the magazines were sold at a antique auction in Pittsburgh.
ComicConnect.com Founder Stephen Fishler said, "Because it was tucked inside a magazine, it was well protected all those years. That's why it's in such remarkable condition."
Shortly after acquiring the book, the buyer brought it to a New York comics convention, where he waved it around, offering it to the highest bidder. Fishler, who was at the show, said, "One minute, no one knew it existed ... the next minute, everyone was dying to own it."
After moving from collection to collection for a while, the copy has been in the latest seller's collection for the last 17 years. After receiving numerous offers over the years, he sold it to Fishler and Zurzolo, who, in turn, resold it on ComicConnect.com.
Did those February sales have an effect on this sale? Fishler said he thinks so, "For two decades, the highest-graded copy of the world's most valuable comic book — the subject of countless speculation and the target of countless offers — remained out of reach. It would take a miracle to shake it loose. And that's exactly what happened. The recent, record-breaking string of million dollar comic sales was the catalyst. And once it entered the arena, there was no question it would become the most expensive comic book ever sold."
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Well that record didnt last long:
Is that one "slabbed"?
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Yeah, it is the one Hack mentioned above.
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You'll be happy to know, Mel, that the best known copy of Action 1 is raw (unslabbed) and will most likely always remain that way. If the owner ever decided to sell it would easily beat the 1.5M sale, even as a raw copy.
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Isn't there a Mile High Copy?
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That would be the one ;)
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Not the same - in your first two examples your suggested actions would instantly ruin the item's value. The third example is a good idea for a party!
You could buy a pair of gloves and peruse an expensive comic book and not damage it.
By the way, the National Archives are just a few blocks away from me. They display the Consitution and Declaration of Independence - which are priceless - despite the small risk a determined miscreant could damage them.
But I get your point - ultimately it's an unresolvable theological dispute. I'm a utilitarian/displayer and youse guys are pure accumulators.
Your comment about using a pair of gloves to handle a comic book and NOT damage it, is incorrect. Sure, the gloves will protect the cover and pages from oils and dirt from ones hands, but every time the book is opened, it is weakened and made loose, by the very nature of paper and the staples holding it together. Any magaizine with a weak or slightly cracked spine, will be worth less than one in mint condition.
And your Declaration and Constitution comment proves the point of protecting valuable paper. They are both in a protective case, a "slab" of sorts, although they can be opened so that curators can insure their condition-- they arent simply tacked to the wall, where anyone can peruse and handle them, with a pair of gloves.
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Your comment about using a pair of gloves to handle a comic book and NOT damage it, is incorrect. .
But Erik you're missing the point. Perhaps it would depreciate if - God forbid - someone actually touched it, read it, perused it, and enjoyed it. But slabbing a comic just to prevent it from depreciating is like removing the ignition from an expensive Ferrari so that it won't accumulate mileage: you've fundamentally negated its purpose and function. You don't own a comic, you own a large piece of plastic. Of course, if you're buying it strictly for investment purposes, that's fine. Otherwise, it's perfectly absurd.
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Not really. It gives the buyer peace of mind that the book is a) authentic and b) doesn't have restoration. If that trimmed CASABLANCA poster you were eyeing had been authenticated, you would've known it was a repro. Also, I know of many collectors that buy slabbed books, crack them out and read them - and I'm talking about four and five figure books. It's all about knowing the book you paid your hard earned money for hasn't been misrepresented by the seller (and who ever heard of sellers do that ;) )
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Not really. It gives the buyer peace of mind that the book is a) authentic and b) doesn't have restoration. If that trimmed CASABLANCA poster you were eyeing had been authenticated, you would've known it was a repro. Also, I know of many collectors that buy slabbed books, crack them out and read them - and I'm talking about four and five figure books. It's all about knowing the book you paid your hard earned money for hasn't been misrepresented by the seller (and who ever heard of sellers do that ;) )
There's no direct equivalent to "slabbing" in movie poster collecting, so the Casablanca analogy doesn't work. Also, I was assuming that slabbing is permanent. If it's not permanent, you should unslab it, peruse it (carefully) and, when you want to sell it, resubmit it for grading.
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There's no direct equivalent to "slabbing" in movie poster collecting, so the Casablanca analogy doesn't work. Also, I was assuming that slabbing is permanent. If it's not permanent, you should unslab it, peruse it (carefully) and, when you want to sell it, resubmit it for grading.
The CASABLANCA example works because there's no slabbing equivalent for MP. As for reslabbing a book, the only problem is that you're never assured you'll receive the exact same grade twice. Handling wear could bring the grade down or the graders may be particularly tight or lose with their grading that day. So the book's grade may fall by a half grade, rise by a half grade or stay the same - you don't know.
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Obviously, we're never going to agree, which is no surprise....
Comic Book Collectors' Dilemna--to Slab or not to Slab? (http://www.articlesbase.com/hobbies-articles/comic-book-collectors-dilemnato-slab-or-not-to-slab-228452.html)
Brad Schepp
Do you collect comics for fun or profit? Well if you're like most collectors, it's a little of both. Regardless, if you think that one day you may sell some or all of your comics (and it seems many of us do) you may want to learn more about "slabbing." Slabbing is the process of having your comics professionally graded, and then encased between two sheets of hard plastic (some sources identify this plastic as "Barex", but there's some controversy as to what type of plastic it is). A special paper that prevents acidification is tucked into the comic as part of this process. Slabbing protects the comic from weather extremes, mositure, dust, and all the other things that can decrease a comic's value.
Collectors both love and hate slabbing--there is no middle ground. First, here's why they love it. Slabbing protects a comic indefinitely (no one knows for how long exactly, as the process is so new). Once slabbled you don't have to worry that your prized Superman, Batman, X-Men, Spiderman, or Archie comic will lose its value, or any of its "eye appeal." That's a big plus! Also the slabbing company (Comics Guaranty, LTD or CGC is the major one, although there are others) will grade your comic as part of the process. Grades are on a .5 to 10-point scale with .5 being poor and 10 being Mint. When you're looking to value and/or sell your comics it's a great advantage to have it graded. It's much easier to sell a comic if you can say it's a CGC 6.0, instead of "in my opinion it's in Fine condition." I know this from personal experience and from talking to other sellers, including those selling comics, for my book eBay PowerSeller Secrets.
Now, here's why some collectors hate slabbing. Once a comic is slabbed you can't read it! You can't take it out from between the plastic that encases it without destroying the seal that the grading company puts along the top of the case. Once that seal is broken the grade is no longer guaranteed. That makes sense because if you take it out you may change its condition somehow, thus reducing its grade. (Although I think most collectors would be careful enough not to harm their comics.) So if you are going to slab a comic you have to get used to the idea that forever it will be encased between plastic sheets. You'll still be able to see its front and back covers but you won't be able to page through it. That's a tough thing to get used to. Also, slabbing ain't cheap. Depending primarily on the comic's age it can easily set you back $50 once you figure in shipping and insurance. And here's something that's not discussed all that much: the cases get scratched easily, and when light hits those scratches your beautifully encased comic doesn't look so hot. New cases aren't as expensive as the original ones if the comics don't have to be regraded, but you still have to pay for shipping and insurance to CGC and back.
There are more pros and cons to this slabbing business but those are the main ones.
My advice? Slab Golden Age comics that are worth at least $150. (Because more modern comics are cheaper to slab, you may consider slabbing one of those if its current value is $100 or so.) It's worth the cost in the long run and at $150, a comic is a pretty valuable investment, which will likely appreciate over time. There's great peace of mind that comes from knowing your comic will not lose any value after you slab it (barring a change in market conditions, of course). If you want to be able to read your comic, you can also search the web for a PDF version of it. These are available from newsgroups devoted to the hobby. Or you can buy one of those printed compilations of old comics.
Enjoy your hobby! Comics are a snapshot of American pop culture, just like magazines or fashions. Besides they can bring back some great memories.
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said it many times, but here goes again.
Slabbing is an American thing, nobody else wants it.
I work in rare coins, and we get slabbed coins from USA, and take out a screw driver and bust the sucker open.
firstly, the grading is shocking, we know dealers who send in a few and get grade X, the same coin can be regraded after being sent from a dealer who sends a LOT in, and get a better grade.
2) people like to have access to the item, if its a comic book, and slabbed, its all about investment, want to read it? your screwed - or you bust the sucker open.
I rerally know nada about slabbed comics, all I know is I deal in very high end coins and anyone thats slabbed gets unslabbed. if I got a [poster slabbed, it sure as heck would be unslabbed to.
I WANT PAPER not a plastic container that has nice art hidden beneath the shiny crap. and a grade told to me by who the freak knows who?
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I know plenty of folks in the UK and Australia that by slabbed books, Ari. It's not just an American thing. Some of them keep the books in slabs and some crack them out. Either way works
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Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nzZBSowipw&feature=PlayList&p=BA42F0BE841E0E95&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1) a video from a collector in Belgium that shows how to crack a book out of a slab. It's done regularly by many collectors all over the world
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OK, might be true, to me, to buy a slabbed book, is like. hmm, buying a laminated eggplant. makes no sense, unless its INVESTMENT, if I buy a book, and I got a lot, (LOT) I want to read the sucker,
when collecting gets to investing, its spoils it for most, and the ones who get the good stuff, dont care (as long as their whatever goes up in $) or to put it another way, MR X writes a book, manages to get it published, wants people to read it. Instead its locked in a plastic capsule - Mr Y buys it and it sits on a shelf, he hopes to make a buck. Id assume Mr X made a buck, maybe he doesnt worry, but maybe he'd like his work to be read. Dunno, I love books, and to see them go to waste is a shame to me, maybe silly,
I might be a grumpy old man, but slabbing to me, especially things like books and comics, is .. hmm.. disgraceful.
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OK, might be true, to me, to buy a slabbed book, is like. hmm, buying a laminated eggplant. makes no sense, unless its INVESTMENT, if I buy a book, and I got a lot, (LOT) I want to read the sucker,
when collecting gets to investing, its spoils it for most, and the ones who get the good stuff, dont care (as long as their whatever goes up in $) or to put it another way, MR X writes a book, manages to get it published, wants people to read it. Instead its locked in a plastic capsule - Mr Y buys it and it sits on a shelf, he hopes to make a buck. Id assume Mr X made a buck, maybe he doesnt worry, but maybe he'd like his work to be read. Dunno, I love books, and to see them go to waste is a shame to me, maybe silly,
I might be a grumpy old man, but slabbing to me, especially things like books and comics, is .. hmm.. disgraceful.
Said well and well said, Ari, although through some unconventional variant of English - let's call it "Arish" :)
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OK, might be true, to me, to buy a slabbed book, is like. hmm, buying a laminated eggplant. makes no sense, unless its INVESTMENT, if I buy a book, and I got a lot, (LOT) I want to read the sucker,
when collecting gets to investing, its spoils it for most, and the ones who get the good stuff, dont care (as long as their whatever goes up in $) or to put it another way, MR X writes a book, manages to get it published, wants people to read it. Instead its locked in a plastic capsule - Mr Y buys it and it sits on a shelf, he hopes to make a buck. Id assume Mr X made a buck, maybe he doesnt worry, but maybe he'd like his work to be read. Dunno, I love books, and to see them go to waste is a shame to me, maybe silly,
I might be a grumpy old man, but slabbing to me, especially things like books and comics, is .. hmm.. disgraceful.
Slabbing has caused many to look at the bottom line (value) far more than they used to, agreed. In many ways it has turned comics into a commodity. But, as I stated before, there's another side to this coin. And that is that CGC raised the standard for grading and disclosure of restoration. Unlike posters, restoration kills the value of a book to 1/4 or 1/3 of its unrestored counterpart (dependent of the type and amount of resto). Is slabbing for everyone? No. Is CGC without its faults? No. But you have to take the good with the bad and, for me, CGC has done more good than bad for the hobby. Has it pushed many books out of my price range? Sure has, but that's the nature of the market right now
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Hack are you on the dealer side or the collector side in the comics field? By and large, the CGC is a plus for the dealer and a negative for the collector unless the collector deals in 4 figure plus books and does not trust who they buy from. It is an artificial inflation of the books worth, you pay a premium "because an expert says so" which is ridiculous.
The comic field has killed itself in the back market world. Any key book that grades a VFN+ is shipped off to CGC, thus taking the book out of the hands of people that fuel the sales of non-key books. Then in addition to that, the endless trade paperback market makes back issues less hunted because you can just buy the trade for less money and not have to hunt the missing books.
Its really sad, hunting the back issue bins was the BEST part of being in the hobby, and now most shops dont want anything to do with them at all other than those that are known for dealing gold/silver books.
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I'm a collector. I occasionally sell to buy other books…or posters ;D I have to disagree with your assessment of the market to a degree. I was just at C2E2 and I know many dealers/part-time dealers who's best sales are .50/$1/$2 books. They can never have enough at cons. Why? Because collectors are looking to (cheaply) fill holes in their runs. Many young collectors came up to me while I was manning my friend's booth asking for back issues of modern (2000 on) books. Back issues are still a huge part of many, many collections. As for me, 99% of what I buy is raw. Granted it's GA, but it's still raw. But you're right, it is an issue of trusting who you bought the book(s) from and it has made many collectors chase numbers, especially BA/CA/Modern. However, even the best dealers make mistakes. I'd rather know about it sooner (so I can get a full or partial refund) than later. But that's just me. For the sake of full disclosure, I have maybe two dozen slabs in my collection. Everything else is raw
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I get it, I just find it a shame, buy a comic or book, cant read it, thats what they are made for, is all. I suspect if I was inclined and wanted to invest Id feel different, my trouble is I actually like to read.
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And I respect your position. There are many that feel the same as you, so it makes for good debate. If everyone believed the same thing it would make this world incredibly boring
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yep, true. I guess it comes down to collecting Vs Investing, or collecting with a view to Invest or a view to use.
Same with posters, I used to buy anything if I liked it, and pack away, hence a house full of boxes, now when buying, its either for resale (not often anymore) or something I want to frame and display, or for the obsessive part, to complete my hammer collection. (oh or my hell drivers collection / oh or my Val Letwon collection)
if slabbs were nice looking, id be happy to have slabbed Lobby cards, if the grade was ON THE BACK, and it wasnt an ugly plastic thing, I dunno, im old fasioned I guess.
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First thing tomorrow morning, I buying as many old dressers as I can!
Comic book buff selling rare copy of Batman No. 1
FAIRBANKS, Alaska – A longtime Alaska comic book buff is selling one of the gems in his vast collection, a rare copy of Batman No. 1 published 70 years ago.
Mike Wheat of Fairbanks has put the 1940 comic book on the auction block through Dallas-based Heritage Auction Galleries, where it's expected to fetch more than $40,000. Online bids already have climbed to $35,000 for the book, believed to be one of fewer than 300 still in existence.
Online bids will compete with a live auction set for Thursday.
The second and fourth Batman issues also will be part of Thursday's auction. They are expected to bring more than $5,000 combined.
Wheat, a retired city wastewater treatment plant operator, said he considers the Batman comics an investment. He said it feels like the right time to sell.
"I just decided it's time for someone else to have it," he said.
The Batman No. 1 comic book was discovered after local businessman Ron Jaeger bought an old dresser at a garage sale in the early 1970s, then kept it in storage for a few years. When Jaeger finally brought it out, he noticed one of the drawers didn't slide easily.
Three comic books and a few old issues of the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner were tucked beneath the drawer and a quarter-inch piece of plywood. The haul included a copy of Batman No. 1, Superman No. 17 and an old issue of a Red Ryder Western comic.
Wheat already had a reputation as an avid comic collector in 1974, and Jaeger sold him the comic books for $300.
The auction house has handled many copies of Batman No. 1, but Wheat's copy is notable because the low humidity and cool temperatures in Fairbanks have kept the paper in excellent condition, said Barry Sandoval, director of comic auctions and operations at Heritage. Old comics were printed on cheap newsprint, but the pages in Wheat's copy remain white and crisp.
"If we got a Batman No. 1 from Texas or Louisiana, if you opened it up after 70 years the pages would start to crumble," Sandoval said.
The condition of comics is graded on a scale of one to 10. Wheat's copy has been graded a 5.5. That's a middling score for a newer comic, but impressive for a vintage copy.
"I see how most comics from that era look," Sandoval said. "Most 70-year-old comics are in pretty rough shape."
Batman No. 1 was the first solo spin-off for the character, who made his first appearance in 1939 as a character in Detective Comics No. 27. The debut includes the original appearances by two of Batman's key foes, the Joker and Catwoman.
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Prices for Batman 1 have been rising steadily over the past couple of years, not that they were stagnant before that. Record prices have been paid for copies over for the last year or so.
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Prices for Batman 1 have been rising steadily over the past couple of years, not that they were stagnant before that. Record prices have been paid for copies over for the last year or so.
I'm thinking that may have to do with the success of the Dark Knight. People's interest has risen for anything Batman.
~ Juli
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That certainly hasn't hurt, to be sure. It's also the first appearance of the Joker & Catwoman, two mainstays of Batman's rogues gallery
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I have been a member of the CGC comic book forums for over 3 years now.
I have heard it all.
Slabbing is a great part of the hobby. The books are not permanently encased in plastic, they open fairly easily.
The only draw back is you have to get it re-graded if you choose to do that. Again, not a big deal.
Most of us love the grading process because it allows for a census on how rare a book is in high grade.
If there are only 1 or 2 copies of a certain book graded at 9.6 or 9.8 it is very nice to know that.
The best part, that has not been mentioned here, is that it allows all of us comic collectors to have our collections ranked nationally.
I am constantly in an out of the top 10 X-Men collections in the nation. It makes the hobby much more exciting to know that just one more book can move you up in the rankings. We have all gotten to know each other very well and help each other out all the time.
I hope that someday this forum becomes as lively as my CGC Comic forum. I plan on hanging around and helping out. I still have a lot to learn about movie posters. Hopefully some of the people that just read messages and never post will join in on the fun here as well.
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Arcade, what is your opinion on the accusation that CGC or other graders can be "persuaded" to grade higher on a book or that certain books may be submitted by certain well-known dealers and magically be given for example a 9.8 whereas it was previously submitted and given a 9.6?
It just seems so dangerous to me when a centralized authority like the CGC is allowed to come so dangerously close to running/influencing an entire hobby (well perhaps the "elite" end of it anyways).
Just curious...
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There is always a danger of that going on when humans are running the show. It is never going to be 100% certain.
However CGC is the closest thing we have.
Before them, you had to trust the individuals and dealers who are more likely to lie about a books background. Just check Ebay. LOL.
Any graded book can be off by a point or two anyway. There is no exact science, just a consensus of three individual graders.
On any given day a book will come back with a completely different grade.
However if things ever got way out of line, the whole thing would crumble like a house of cards.
The really great thing about them is their restoration checks. This is very hard to catch and dealers can easily lie about this.
I really like knowing my X-Men collection is super high grade and unrestored.
They have done far more good for the hobby then bad.
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I have been a member of the CGC comic book forums for over 3 years now.
I have heard it all.
Slabbing is a great part of the hobby. The books are not permanently encased in plastic, they open fairly easily.
The only draw back is you have to get it re-graded if you choose to do that. Again, not a big deal.
Most of us love the grading process because it allows for a census on how rare a book is in high grade.
If there are only 1 or 2 copies of a certain book graded at 9.6 or 9.8 it is very nice to know that.
The best part, that has not been mentioned here, is that it allows all of us comic collectors to have our collections ranked nationally.
I am constantly in an out of the top 10 X-Men collections in the nation. It makes the hobby much more exciting to know that just one more book can move you up in the rankings. We have all gotten to know each other very well and help each other out all the time.
I hope that someday this forum becomes as lively as my CGC Comic forum. I plan on hanging around and helping out. I still have a lot to learn about movie posters. Hopefully some of the people that just read messages and never post will join in on the fun here as well.
Just as long as joe_collector, Cap_FFreak, or KK don't find themselves over here, everything will be pleasant ;D
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Arcade, what is your opinion on the accusation that CGC or other graders can be "persuaded" to grade higher on a book or that certain books may be submitted by certain well-known dealers and magically be given for example a 9.8 whereas it was previously submitted and given a 9.6?
It just seems so dangerous to me when a centralized authority like the CGC is allowed to come so dangerously close to running/influencing an entire hobby (well perhaps the "elite" end of it anyways).
Just curious...
The graders don't know who submits a book. The book is taken out of its package by someone in shipping & receiving, entered into the computer by them, then passed along to the graders. That being said, if the Church copy of Action 1 gets sent in, everybody knows who submitted it, but examples like that are rare.
Like Arcade said, the difference between a 9.6 and 9.8 is minimal. More than a few books have gone up in grade, normally a half point, by a straight resub. Conversely, many books have also gone down in grade via that same resub. An infamous example is a Hulk 1 Pacific Coast copy that went from an 8.5 to 8.0 during such a resub. That's a nice chunk of change the submitter lost hoping for a higher grade ($thousands).
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I still stand by my comment that it is frightening to have a central "authority" like the CGC control a hobby...
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I still stand by my comment that it is frightening to have a central "authority" like the CGC control a hobby...
I dont know a damned thing about comic books but the idea of any central authority controlling anything just makes me cringe with thoughts of a Joseph Stalin aka douchesss maximus. :P
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Comic collecting was around decades before CGC and it would be around if CGC disappeared tomorrow. I'm all for competition, unfortunately the only other certification company is a scam-and-a-half, so people gravitate to CGC. I wish there was legitimate competition for them as it would be good for collectors and that aspect of the hobby.
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I dont know a damned thing about comic books but the idea of any central authority controlling anything just makes me cringe with thoughts of a Joseph Stalin aka douchesss maximus. :P
Just take a deep breath. All will be OK. :)
CGC does not "control" anything.
Raw book sales continue to this very day, and the little plastic cases open right up. There is nothing to be afraid of.
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Its all bullshit if you ask me. I am a tight wad collector and the CGC priced me out of any key book that a local dealer would grade out of VF+ cause they all get submitted to the national comic book lottery. I literally no longer buy back issues purely because of CGC grading and artificial price inflation.
Bust out the Tommy Boy guarantee quote!
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Its all bullshit if you ask me. I am a tight wad collector and the CGC priced me out of any key book that a local dealer would grade out of VF+ cause they all get submitted to the national comic book lottery. I literally no longer buy back issues purely because of CGC grading and artificial price inflation.
Bust out the Tommy Boy guarantee quote!
Hey Dale, Sorry you don't care for CGC, but you did beat me at emovieposter today. I had bid on the Steve Martin "The Jerk" poster, but because of other purchases that got a bit out of hand, I really could not go for it like I wanted to.
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How many collectors can tell the difference between a 9 and a 9.8. The price difference is astronomical and the reason CGC exists is because of people not trusting their local dealer. I don't get it and never will. It turns $500 books into $5000 books. Why? because someone stuck their head up the butchers ass err... because a grading expert says so. Come on! this is the equivalent of the sports card chase card that ruined that hobby. You can no longer buy a non CGC high grade book because everyone wants paid because their book looks good.
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How many collectors can tell the difference between a 9 and a 9.8. The price difference is astronomical and the reason CGC exists is because of people not trusting their local dealer. I don't get it and never will. It turns $500 books into $5000 books. Why? because someone stuck their head up the butchers ass err... because a grading expert says so. Come on! this is the equivalent of the sports card chase card that ruined that hobby. You can no longer buy a non CGC high grade book because everyone wants paid because their book looks good.
Dale, Just go over the the CGC Forum "For Sale Threads".
There are killer raw copy books for sale on there every day at awesome prices.
Not everyone on the forum collects just graded books.
Just check out one of Brian/Foolkillers sales threads and you will see that what you claim above is just not true.
I buy high quality ungraded books all the time.
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How many collectors can tell the difference between a 9 and a 9.8. The price difference is astronomical and the reason CGC exists is because of people not trusting their local dealer. I don't get it and never will. It turns $500 books into $5000 books. Why? because someone stuck their head up the butchers ass err... because a grading expert says so. Come on! this is the equivalent of the sports card chase card that ruined that hobby. You can no longer buy a non CGC high grade book because everyone wants paid because their book looks good.
If you can't tell the difference between a 9.0 and a 9.8 you shouldn't be buying back issues, period. That's like asking a poster collector if they can tell the difference between a VF/NM poster and a NM/M one. The reason people have gravitated to CGC is because of local & national dealers (http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=120483&fpart=1). You know, the ones that knowingly overgraded books or didn't disclose restoration. They only have their greedy, unethical asses to blame for the explosion of slabbed books. That's why there are still old school dealers that despise CGC - they can't pass off their overgraded, restored books anymore. I see that all the time at cons. Has CGC priced many books out of collectors' budgets? They sure have, but they've also allowed the average collector to be able to buy and sell on par with the dealer - something they couldn't do before. I've heard dealers bitch about people wanting slabbed prices for their raw books, then the same dealers price their inventory the same way! Dependent on what you collect, you can buy slabbed books for less than their raw counterpart, crack it out and have a decent looking copy to read. I can send you links to dealers that primarily deal in raw comics if you like, again, depending on what you collect.
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"You know, the ones that knowingly overgraded books or didn't disclose restoration."
This is as true of posters as it is of comic books!
Bruce
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"You know, the ones that knowingly overgraded books or didn't disclose restoration."
This is as true of posters as it is of comic books!
Bruce
thumbup
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"You know, the ones that knowingly overgraded books or didn't disclose restoration."
This is as true of posters as it is of comic books!
Bruce
My guess is that it's true of every collectible hobby, Bruce. I can't see comics & movie posters being the only exception.
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I hear its even MORE true of baseball cards and coins.
Apparently, stamps is one of the only hobbies not afflicted by this, but I hear that will change soon!
hitself hitself hitself hitself
Bruce
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I hear its even MORE true of baseball cards and coins.
I used to collect sports cards way back in the day but the pigs at the central authority ruined that for me.
On the other hand maybe I should thank the assholes. If they hadnt screwed up sports cards I wouldnt have started collecting sports autographs and now movie posters. Both of which have been far more satisfying hobbies. Nothing as unrewarding as getting a card in a slab....whoopie!...
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I used to collect sports cards way back in the day but the pigs at the central authority ruined that for me.
On the other hand maybe I should thank the assholes. If they hadnt screwed up sports cards I wouldnt have started collecting sports autographs and now movie posters. Both of which have been far more satisfying hobbies. Nothing as unrewarding as getting a card in a slab....whoopie!...
You do realize that sports autographs have just as many fakes, if not more, circulating as movie posters do
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You do realize that sports autographs have just as many fakes, if not more, circulating as movie posters do
I do...and I probably got a couple of fakes in the beginning ..Thats why I get most of em in person at shows when the athletes are there. The ones I dont get personally signed I get from the same guy Ive been buying from for 10? years at shows. :)
DEFINATELY BEWARE EBAY and autographs. I have only gotten 2 autographs (In person Barry Sanders and Kenny Stabler) in the last year plus since I switched to posters but I hadnt bought more than a 5? off of Ebay. Im far too paranoid for that.
Just take a deep breath. All will be OK. :)
I just reread my posts and I see where I sound like an ass. :-[ I have no problem with people buying slabbed stuff. I personally dont like em much. I have some graded cards but I just dont enjoy em like the movie posters or the mini helmets I had signed. Plus I bought them there slabbed cards for much more than they are worth now cause I was too dense to see the collapse coming :P :-[ moron1 :'( 8) ;D
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Don't really follow comic book auctions but this restored 1938 Action #1 is up for bid (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350528583340). Ad says that only 50 out of 200,000 originally printed have survived primarily due to WWII paper drives.
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Action.png)