All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => Authentication => Topic started by: USMCSS on February 20, 2012, 11:01:34 AM
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Hey guys, was just going through some old Lobby Card sets I purchased some years back and came across Raging Bull. I am starting to question whether they are authentic or not. I don't ever want to take a chance of selling someone something fake.
It seems to me that it is very hard to determine whether a Lobby Card is fake compared to a one sheet. Looking over previous auctions of this title, the pictures show all different kinds of printing errors; wording is in different places, pictures on the cards are not aligned properly etc. The borders of the cards I have look to be "Minty White"
Does anyone out there have a known authentic set we could compair with? I would be willing to take many photos or even send them to someone. It would be nice to have something for people in the future to look at so they don't make a mistake when purchasing.
Are original Lobby cards all the same in appearance or do they vary? One thing that stands out to me with these Raging Bull LC's is that on some of the cards the Title Text has white shadowing, and on others it is just red.
Would be intersted in hearing what anyone has to say.
Thanks.
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Also, does anyone know what happened to Cinemagic?
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I can't say about these LCs as I only have a single card. However, I have several sets from the period where individual cards have different style of text and where the total is >8 cards. My assumption was that there were several different sets made and what I have is some compilation. I am talking about lesser titles from the late '70s/early '80s where nobody would bother to bootleg them.
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Thanks for the reply Jay.
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Hey Robert.
While I don't have any RAGING BULL cards, I have seen some differences in other card sets that have raised my suspicions.
A few years ago, I picked up some lobbies from THE EXORCIST and I noticed that while the cards looked identical, one had the copyright date and the other did not.
I passed on the ones missing the date, assuming they were either reprints or counterfeits. They were quite 'minty' to boot and seemed stiffer/thicker than originals I already had.
Personally, I haven't seen much info regarding lobby card bootlegs. I'm sure someone on this board can add some info to this thread.
Do you have any pics you can post?
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Thanks Brude! I uploaded some pics for you and anyone else that wants to look at them. Here is the link, click on a photo and then right click it, you will get an option to view the photo in a bigger size.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42435123@N08/sets/72157629404857211/detail/
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Regarding the white shadowing. It appears to be a registration error with the black area offset lower. Note that every card that has the white shadow also has the image extend above the top of the black area.
Again, just my opinion, but I'm not sure that someone bootlegging would bother with a separate run for the common areas. Also, not sure if this set is worth bootlegging. I recently bought a Raging bull insert for under $25.
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Regarding the white shadowing. It appears to be a registration error with the black area offset lower. Note that every card that has the white shadow also has the image extend above the top of the black area.
Again, just my opinion, but I'm not sure that someone bootlegging would bother with a separate run for the common areas. Also, not sure if this set is worth bootlegging. I recently bought a Raging bull insert for under $25.
Nice catch on the offset, I did notice that at the top of some of them but never put it together with the shadowing. I guess I don't understand how they bootleg these cards. Why couldn't the offset be the bootleggers error? And what do you mean by separate run for the common areas?
I Paid $50 for them in 2005
Thanks.
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Without feeling the paper quality, They seem right to me. Though things are completely different when in front of you.
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Without feeling the paper quality, They seem right to me. Though things are completely different when in front of you.
Thanks Paul, the paper is consistant from cards I have that I know came right from the theater.
As long as nothing is poping out at anyone I guess I am good to go.
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Hey Ted, they may have been U.K. lobbies, as they don't have the date on...
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Hey Ted, they may have been U.K. lobbies, as they don't have the date on...
That might explain the card stock difference.
UK cards are thicker, aren't they?
My original cards read:
Copyright 1973 Warner Bros. etc.
The suspected dupe read:
Copyright Warner Bros. etc.
With a space just like that, as if 1973 had been whited out.
Have you seen any UK cards like that?
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Hi, Folks!
We purchased a set of RAGING BULL lobby cards a while ago and I was never happy with them.
They looked exactly like the ones in your images, Robert.
Eventually, we passed them on to a customer for the same amount we paid for them - and on the absolute understanding that they might be bootlegs of some kind.
We purchased them from bradburied.
Need I say more?
Best wishes,
Terry - www.quadbod.co.uk
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... here are images of three individual RAGING BULL lobby cards NOT from the 'minty white' suspect set, but which just 'felt' right ...
(http://www.quadbod.co.uk/webmisc/lcragingbull1.JPG)
(http://www.quadbod.co.uk/webmisc/lcragingbull7.JPG)
(http://www.quadbod.co.uk/webmisc/lcragingbull8.JPG)
... sorry they're not very clear images, but maybe they're good enough to convey the general feeling of authenticity!?
Best wishes,
Terry - www.quadbod.co.uk
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Terry's the man!
Those pics might be a bit 'blurry,' but the registration looks to be in order.
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Terry's the man!
Those pics might be a bit 'blurry,' but the registration looks to be in order.
Quite right, Ted ... it was that inaccurate colour registration plus the 'too new' feel which planted the seeds of doubt ... and once those seeds are planted ...
Terry - www.quadbod.co.uk
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Still, I noticed that only the solid black area was out of registration. I would think that if this were done by a bootlegger, they would have simply done a color separation without masking and the blacks on the image portion would be also out of registration. That would give a fuzzy look to the image, which Bob's don't have.
Looking again, I can't be sure. It looks like the black may be out of registration across the entire card.
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Sorry to keep popping in. I went to Bruce's database and looked at his lobbies. I saw a number of instances where the black registration is off.
http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/searchfield/title/search/raging%2520bull/type/LC/archive.html
Here are some examples:
http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=4736336
http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=5567843
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Hi, Folks!
We purchased a set of RAGING BULL lobby cards a while ago and I was never happy with them.
They looked exactly like the ones in your images, Robert.
Eventually, we passed them on to a customer for the same amount we paid for them - and on the absolute understanding that they might be bootlegs of some kind.
We purchased them from bradburied.
Need I say more?
Best wishes,
Terry - www.quadbod.co.uk
Nice to hear from you Terry and thanks for your input! I have doubts about my Raging Bull Cards becasue of the color registration, "just learned what that is because of all of you so I thank you for that!"
When comparing the Raging Bull cards to a set of Bad Boy Cards they feel the same. And the newness is the same. Bad Boys came out 3 years after Raging Bull. I know the Bad Boys are real becasue they came from a friend of mine that worked at a theater and is a big collector. He keep them packed away as soon as he got them. The only thing that is different is the registration.
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Sorry to keep popping in. I went to Bruce's database and looked at his lobbies. I saw a number of instances where the black registration is off.
http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/searchfield/title/search/raging%2520bull/type/LC/archive.html
Here are some examples:
http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=4736336
http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=5567843
Interesting!
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So how do these scumbags that need to be taken in the wood and Beat make these bootlegs? I am assuming they put the cards together on a computer and print them and don't just photo copy them?
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if you solve the "Rochester Minty White Mystery", I think you will never have to pay for a poster again.
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if you solve the "Rochester Minty White Mystery", I think you will never have to pay for a poster again.
Hey Ari! I probably would never solve that mystery but I would sure know what to do with the Dirtbags that do this kind of crap!!!
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When looking at the two examples below, the photo with De Niro in the lepard outfit, there is a what dot in the black area below the title under the i & n in raging. If they don't photocopy them, then this came from the same creator, no? I can't seem to imbed the images in this post.
http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=5567843
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42435123@N08/6911048151/sizes/l/in/set-72157629404857211/
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Hi, Folks!
We purchased a set of RAGING BULL lobby cards a while ago and I was never happy with them.
They looked exactly like the ones in your images, Robert.
Eventually, we passed them on to a customer for the same amount we paid for them - and on the absolute understanding that they might be bootlegs of some kind.
We purchased them from bradburied.
Need I say more?
Best wishes,
Terry - www.quadbod.co.uk
yes....... WHY? ;)
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but to be serious, from what I can tell, they would be hard to distinguish by pics, but I have handled them (a Sydney collector got a stack - from another Rochester dealer) and handling/looking at them in person (like their Insert counterparts) they don't "feel right", so I would suspect you should go with your gut or send to someone who has legit ones (or buy one legit card).
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yes....... WHY? ;)
I was young and foolish.
Now I'm not young anymore.
BTW all the very best to you, Ari.
Best wishes,
Terry - www.quadbod.co.uk
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That might explain the card stock difference.
UK cards are thicker, aren't they?
My original cards read:
Copyright 1973 Warner Bros. etc.
The suspected dupe read:
Copyright Warner Bros. etc.
With a space just like that, as if 1973 had been whited out.
Have you seen any UK cards like that?
No, not like that Ted...
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No, not like that Ted...
I didn't think so.
Thanks, Paul.
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the lobby cards have not been listed as minty whites according to LAMP
http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/NewSite/ADMIN/Problems/FAKES/MintyWhiteList.asp
Ted.. Exorcist cards with no copyright were probably studio release cards or internationals
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the lobby cards have not been listed as minty whites according to LAMP
http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/NewSite/ADMIN/Problems/FAKES/MintyWhiteList.asp
Ted.. Exorcist cards with no copyright were probably studio release cards or internationals
Thanks, Rich.
What do you mean by 'studio release cards?'
Aren't they all studio release cards?
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the lobby cards have not been listed as minty whites according to LAMP
http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/NewSite/ADMIN/Problems/FAKES/MintyWhiteList.asp
Ted.. Exorcist cards with no copyright were probably studio release cards or internationals
Rich, would studio cards be similar to posters that are called 'studio OS' that have no NSS information or NSS numbers on them?
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Rich, would studio cards be similar to posters that are called 'studio OS' that have no NSS information or NSS numbers on them?
yes. that would be exactly it.
Or as my post says, they could be cards for International distribution