All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => The Dealer/Auction House/Seller/Buyer Round Table => Topic started by: eatbrie on January 14, 2010, 12:53:25 AM
-
I know I've asked this question before on another forum, but since I never got a satisfying answer, I thought I'd ask it again here.
When I bid on a poster, I bid within 4 seconds of the end of auction, and I'm usually not the only one. Pretty much every single auction that I bid on ends this way. Yet, there are always 3 or 4 bidders bidding on the item days before it ends, bidding and overbidding each other. Now, if they were new to Ebay, I'd think that they would eventually learn (by their 2nd bid) and snipe. But no, some of them have a lot of feedbacks.
Please tell me why? PLEASE.
T
-
I really have no idea... apart from "locking in" the auction as I believe once a bid is received it is harder for the seller to pull out of the auction. But that doesn't explain the 2nd or 3rd bidders, unless they don't want to use a sniping program and wont be around when the auction ends... They may well think it doesn't make a difference whether they bid early or not, they'll just put in their max bid.
-
The only reason I've ever done that in the past was when I knew I couldnt be at my computer when the auction was ending. This was before I discovered sniping software of course.
Bulla
-
Sometimes it helps to place an opening bid to get rid of a high buy it now price that might convey a false impression of the poster's value...and as 50's says making a bid makes it more difficult (in theory) for a seller to cancel or amend an auction - particularly if it is a rare sought after poster that might encourage a private sale outside of ebay. That may account for an early initial bid - it does not help explain why there are sometimes multiple early bidders.
Mark
-
I assume you are talking solely about eBay, and I no longer sell there, but I think I know the answer. Bidding early lets bidders "feel out" the degree of interest that there is in an item (assuming at least one other person bids as well). If an item is sitting at a dollar with seconds to go, you are completely blind as to how much to snipe. But if five bidders took it to say, $50 with seconds to go, you now have SOME idea of what it might go for, and you have a better idea on what snipe bid to place.
I would say that bidding early therefore gives you a greater chance of winning that item (because you have more info about its end price) but that doing so may well cost you more than it would have had you not bid early.
Bidding early also makes sense on items you have only a passing interest in. You bid your best bid early on, and most times you are outbid, but every so often that other fellow forgets to snipe, or his snipe program fails, or whatever, and you get a great deal, and the benefit of this method is after you place your bid you never need to think about it again (of course you could simply place your bid as a snipe, but YOUR snipe program might fail, etc),
So I think early bidding makes sense if you have a great desire to own an item, or if you only have a passing desire. But if you are a man of leisure, you should simply always sit by the computer right near when it ends and then place a snipe bid, so you have the element of surprise, and you also saw where the bidding was near the end.
Of course, in my auctions, there is no sniping, but you still should wait for the final five minutes, and bid with five minutes and one second to go.
Bruce
-
When I browse and I see something I dont really care if I win, I will put a bid on it then and not think about it again. Now, I normally win about 2% of those, but really dont care anyway. Usually it is something I already have that looks like the item way under fair market value.
-
The next question is whether starting the bidding at $.99 (as opposed to $9.99 or $50 or whatever) leads to the highest price.
Does that price encourage the "middle bidders" to drive the price up and then force the snipers to come in at a high price?
In other words, why do most auctions start at $.99 even for $100+ posters?
-
im too lazy to actually place a bid without a sniper........i think a lot of the early bidding on ebay might be shills.
-
I'll put a bid in early primarily because I may forget about it when it comes to closing. This is also assuming that others with also forget about it and I may get lucky. But I'd never put a max bid early, and I will snipe 99% of the time.
-
I snipe and I hate it when bidders bid up an item into the hundreds and thousands way before the end of an auction. It happens a lot for the Battlestar Galactica props that I've been and had been going after. When there are 6 days left to an auction and the price has already shot up to the thousands, I can't help but think: "Stupid, stupid people."
When it came to posters on eBay and there was a Buy It Now attached to the auction, to prevent someone from snatching it or to prevent the seller from backing out (which he/she could still do with a cancelled auction using a fake excuse), I would put in an early bid at the lowest price, which was the 99 cents or whatever. I never put in my maximum precisely because I didn't want people bidding the price up, including any shilling that may be done. Then, I'd set my snipe.
But, in my early days on eBay before I knew about sniping, I would have to tediously sit around sweating it out and found myself in bidding wars. It still happens occasionally to me in live auctions, the last one being in the live auction for Battlestar Galactica props last May. No matter how I tell myself, "You will not bid beyond this price" in my rational, calm, not-in-live-auction moment, once a live auction is underway, the emotion involved has on a few occasions gotten the better of me. Fortunately, I've been able drop out in time -- or more likely, I was up against someone wealthy who was not going to drop out no matter what, so they saved me from myself (though I do wish them pain, suffering, disease, pestilence and a really bad genital rash). I avoid live auctions if I can, but when something I want is only found in a live auction, I'm stuck and have to threaten myself with visions of poverty and homelessness to keep myself in check.
I am forever grateful to those who decided to create sniping websites and programs.
Jeannie
-
Are there sniping programs for emovieposter and movieposterbid? I tend to bid much much less now on these sites now the same batch of collectors all fish in the same pools and they all end in the middle of the night in the Netherlands.
-
Well the sniping business makes sense for ebay. It is a timed auction that ends at a specific time no matter what. Bruce's auctions add another 5 minutes to the auction time every time someone places a bid within the last 5 minutes of closing. So technically you could snipe but it does you no good if someone is online at that time and decides to place a bid against your snipe bid. The 5 minute war could go on for 45 minutes or more after the original closing time with Bruce's auction.
Chad
-
that's another reason why I bother less. It's no use to me when others can put in another bid while I'm sound asleep
-
Are there sniping programs for emovieposter and movieposterbid? I tend to bid much much less now on these sites now the same batch of collectors all fish in the same pools and they all end in the middle of the night in the Netherlands.
the simple answer is No.. we don't have a bid sniper..
after I have 3 cups of coffee.. I'll be back
-
Okay.. let me answer a few things
first of all, fleaBay itself does not have a bid sniper. All bid snipers for fleaBay are from "third party developers" who charge a fee and make money for the service.
fleaBay co-operates with the developers as it is my understanding that they charge developers a yearly fee for access to the code, which becomes a revenue stream for fleaBay (and lord knows they need revenue streams).
It also makes sense for fleaBay to have this available as they have auctions running 24/7 that end at any time within the 24 hour day. Nobody (except crazies and meth freaks) is awake 24/7 and so fleaBay undoubtedly looks at sniping as a benefit to them as it continues bidding for people who would otherwise not be bidding because they are asleep, at work, at the market or anything else.
While we did originally have a bid sniper for MoviePosterBid, it was costly to program and even though it was free for 30 days and then $10 with permanent updates free... we never got 20 requests/downloads for it and once we updated some part of the programming on the site, the sniper had to be reprogramed to work with it. Clearly if no one wanted to pay for the service - there was no value to dump more money into such a program, and we abandoned it.
But there really isn't as much of a need for it on MPB because our auctions (at least my 99 centers) only end on one day of the week as opposed to anytime during a 7 day/24 hour period and the large % of buyers are available during the auctions. Also, because at times - like the 2 auctions coming up - we will have extended bidding for special auctions, the sniper would not work.. so between cost, requests for the program (or lack of I should say) and extended bidding as well as other reasons.. a bid sniper for MPB really isn't useful.
Keep in mind... fleaBay is the only auction venue that I can think of that has actual sniping. Heritage is a semi-sniping format that allows you to make all of your bids and then input them at one time. This works to Heritage's benefit however as all of their weekly auctions end at exactly the same time and it would otherwise be impossible for anyone to make their bids any other way. Of course, their Signature auctions are standard auction format (auction ends when no one is bidding anymore and it takes as long as necessary)
Know that the sniping method is a new addition to auctions (late 90s) and only due to the fact that on fleaBay they have a specific time frame for an auction to last on a 24hour clock. This was not the auction format before fleaBay anywhere and it was designed to last in a specific format because fleaBay would probably otherwise ask for more listing fees to extend auctions beyond the clocked format (if you wanted to go 7 days & 1 minute for instance, this enters a new time division. ergo: "we need more money")
There is no reason for all other auctioneers (myself included) to adhere to the fleaBay format because realistically, it may not be to our benefit to do so and also realistically, 90-95% of all auctions will never be extended (during time extended auctions) because the items do not necessitate extensions. I have no doubt that during the big auction I have coming up that posters like Arsenic and Old Lace, the Mole People and Liberty Valance may go into extended bidding. But the large part of the auction will not be extended in any way, because those items don't get bids during the last few minutes of an auction except in the circumstance where someone forgets to bid earlier. This is exactly what we have seen with Bruce's auctions.
Extended time bidding for my site,or Bruce's site really only brings us back to the feel and workings of pre-fleaBay auctions where the hammer does not sound until all bidders have lowered their paddles. It's a format that has worked for live auctions for many hundreds of years (probably 1000's as I'm sure they had auctions of some kind in ancient Rome) and to be sure there are arguments on both sides of the dual formats:
1) "I sure wish I could have gotten one more bid in, but the clock ended. Dammit!!"
2) "thankfully because the hammer did not fall, I can bid again.. Yippeee.. I won!"
it works both ways.....
-
note: I said "fleabay" 12 times in my post
:-)
-
What I really hate about early bidders .. Is the late-early bidders .. I may watch a piece in a 7-10 day auction .. and it stays way low .. But when it hit the 24hr mark and it got that "ending soon" tag .. Bidders start coming out .. They must be thinking .. "Ohh no.. theres 23.5 hrs left .. I may miss the end. I better bid a little right now just so I remember to come back!!" But really they are just jacking up the price .. :(
-
Will only do it to know out a Buy it Now price. I don't get the early bidding where sniping is available either...
-
It's interesting to read the POV's and general comments and thoughts of those, who chimed in here,... from WAY back in early 2010.
Were sniping apps just coming into their own at this point?
I dont think GavelSnipe was even born yet, was it?
-
Agree. I am finding this early bidding incredibly irritating and frustrating. But then... I have been guilty of early bidding BUT only when I had no choice (time difference and no snipes) or when it was something I really wanted and just had to place a bid to avoid myself getting into a frenzy bidding war at the 11th hr ( 4 am UK time with a half functional brain ). With some posters i need to do it that way to give myself some space to hope for the best and to prepare myself to the worse.
But yes. Agree. Those who fallenangel1 call late - early bidders who start firing bids with 23hrs to go are just a pain. Myself included.
-
I always bid late - unless, that is, I want to put down a cheap opening marker to stop an item with no bids from being whipped from sale. The annoying practice whereby a seller succumbs to the allure of an offer made through a private message and removes it from sale for a clandestine purchase. In addition I have witnessed far too much 'macho' bidding with contestants needlessly pouring money into a pointless duel - sometimes days before the end of the auction - in order to feed their egos. This is to the detriment of their own limited intelligences but it's especially harmful to the pockets of any other interested bidders. Good for sellers though!
-
I always bid late - unless, that is, I want to put down a cheap opening marker to stop an item with no bids from being whipped from sale. The annoying practice whereby a seller succumbs to the allure of an offer made through a private message and removes it from sale for a clandestine purchase. In addition I have witnessed far too much 'macho' bidding with contestants needlessly pouring money into a pointless duel - sometimes days before the end of the auction - in order to feed their egos. This is to the detriment of their own limited intelligences but it's especially harmful to the pockets of any other interested bidders. Good for sellers though!
+1
-
Is GavelSnipe the way to go? What do most of you use?
My 2nd auction ever (for anything), I was sitting pretty at my opening bid, no other bids (obviously not a high-ticket item) and 14 seconds to go, I get a notice. Luckily I was glued to my screen at the time.
-
Is GavelSnipe the way to go? What do most of you use?
My 2nd auction ever (for anything), I was sitting pretty at my opening bid, no other bids (obviously not a high-ticket item) and 14 seconds to go, I get a notice. Luckily I was glued to my screen at the time.
Depends on the auction. emovieposter.com and movieposterbid both have extended bidding where any bid in the last 5 minutes automatically extends the bidding period. Gavelsnipe is useless here. I simply make my best bid an hour or so before these auctions close, and then turn off the browser. If I win, fine, but I am not going to get sucked into a war where I bid beyond what the poster is worth to me.
Gavelsnipe works well for other auctions, but it is the same principle. Make your best bid and stick with it. Gavelsnipe works well if you are not around, but making your best bid with 10 seconds left is just as effective. The key is that it IS your best bid, and no regrets if you lose.
-
Thanks Jay :)
-
Gavelsnipe rawks.
I *really* wish emovieposter would get some sort of sniping thing going - you could always just place any snipes 5:10 before the auctions end so they don't get extended and that problem is solved. I just refuse to place a bid early and then get hammered for hours or days as I'm a 'fire and forget' bidder. Unfortunately a couple of weeks ago I forgot before firing on two different days and missed on several things I actually wanted. Aggravating.
-
Gavelsnipe rawks.
I *really* wish emovieposter would get some sort of sniping thing going - you could always just place any snipes 5:10 before the auctions end so they don't get extended and that problem is solved. I just refuse to place a bid early and then get hammered for hours or days as I'm a 'fire and forget' bidder. Unfortunately a couple of weeks ago I forgot before firing on two different days and missed on several things I actually wanted. Aggravating.
I don't think Bruce wants gavelsnipe. The extended bidding works to his advantage because it gives him exactly that sniping thing that raises final prices. Sorta fun to watch an extended bidding war. Not so fun to be in one, so I simply place my best bid a couple of hours early and walk away.
Sure, I lose some, but I don't get sucked into paying more that I determined the poster was worth to me. Someone else wants to overbid, then good for him and good for Bruce.
-
About half of our members use Gavelsnipe. The other half breaks down maybe an even amount bidding live and using proxies or a combination. I would be curious to know what people think of a set end-time like we have as opposed to the extended bidding. We have the ability to do extended bidding but as a buyer (on other sites) I'm not a fan. I think heritage was smart to employ their signature auction format for weeklies. At the end of March we are shutting down for a week to do an overhaul, purge useless code, create sub-domains, etc. Basically optimize the site so the question has come up whether to go to the extended format. Any input from anybody?
Thanks,
-Peter
-
^ Thank you Peter, interesting to read that you want views. As a buyer I am against extended bidding. I bid my max and just wait for the result. And of course extended bidding makes the whole thing more painful. It helps the seller for sure.
-
In my mind Peter it is a tossup. Extended bidding gives some the chance to reconsider their last bid and go higher. A fixed end bid with Gavelsnipe or other proxy requires folks to think harder about the last bid and bid it without pre-knowlege of the competition.
Te real wild card is the novice who makes the mistake of thinking of these events as a live auction where your bid is binding. They bid just over the current bid repeatedly.
-
I always bid late - unless, that is, I want to put down a cheap opening marker to stop an item with no bids from being whipped from sale. The annoying practice whereby a seller succumbs to the allure of an offer made through a private message and removes it from sale for a clandestine purchase. In addition I have witnessed far too much 'macho' bidding with contestants needlessly pouring money into a pointless duel - sometimes days before the end of the auction - in order to feed their egos. This is to the detriment of their own limited intelligences but it's especially harmful to the pockets of any other interested bidders. Good for sellers though!
This was the answer I was looking for before I said exactly the same thing - albeit with less efficiency.
-
+ 1
I just checked HA sig and there are already 4 bidders battling through over one poster. Current bid is well over x+Y already. Idiots.