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Common Poster Subjects => The Dealer/Auction House/Seller/Buyer Round Table => Topic started by: Monster_A_GoGo on June 14, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
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I was just looking at my latest watch list on Heritage...and noticed that the buyers premium is $19 now. Wasn't $14 like just last week or the week before? Jeepers! That's a big jump.
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Weird.
According to Item 2 in HA's Terms & Conditions, the BP for movie posters is 19.5%, but in doing the math, it looks to be about 21.1% for this Sunday's upcoming movie poster auction.
For example, one lot that I randomly selected that is currently at $90.00 (and if won at that amount on Sunday) should be $107.77, with the added 19.5%, but instead it states that with the added BP, the amount would be $109.00 (http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/foreign/8-1-2-embassy-1963-italian-locandina-115-x-27-foreign/a/161625-53004.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515)
Buyer’s Premium:
2. All bids are subject to a Buyer’s Premium which is in addition to the placed successful bid:
• Nineteen and one-half percent (19.5%) on Comic, Movie Poster, Sports Collectibles, and Gallery
Auction (sealed bid auctions of mostly bulk numismatic material) lots14. The highest qualified Bidder recognized by the Auctioneer shall be the Buyer.
Seems confusing, or maybe a hiccup? Dunno.
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Oh yes...it's a percentage. Duh... just woke up a bit ago. But thank you. I wasn't imagining things. They DID go up. Grrr.
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Tho it looks like the minimum bid amount on a 1.00 poster, has been upped from 14.00 to 19.00 (if I'm looking at it right).
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Heritage BP has been 19.5% for years.
there is a minimum $14 premium added to any sale
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The minimum did go up, looks like. Here's a side by side screen grab. The item on the left, from last Sunday (6/12/16) got a bid of 1.00, so with the added 14.00, sold for 15.00. The image on the right, is for an upcoming item this Sunday (6/19/16). The small info box shows that the minimum premium added has gone up from 14 to 19 bucks (in the red font).
So if the item on the right sells for a buck, it will now cost that winning bidder 20.00 vs 15.00, had it been sold last Sunday.
(http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q719/spitfire3992/compare_zps2hdfbeiz.jpg)
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ARGH!!! Sooooo not fair.
Thanks for posting those examples though, Jeff.
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I do like Heritage, but in general BPs are for the birds. They're already getting a giant cut of the final price from the seller, then to squeeze the buyer too? Hate it. And Heritage aren't even the highest...didn't Invaluable have like 24-28% for the Morrie auctions? Definitely have to factor that into your bid.
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When I sorted the items for this Sunday's upcoming auction (high to low), it appears that any item that has gotten a bid of over 100.00 uses the 19.5% BP, but anything that is currently UNDER 100.00 so far, has the flat, minimum 19.00 premium added to the bid amount, rather than using the calculated BP percentage.
I looked at about 7 items, all with bids under 100.00 and they all came up the same way. (current bid + 19.00)
And the few items that are currently over 100.00, all have the 19.5% BP used as the calculation.
Edit: Those items that have bids of $97.50 (or above), will use the 19.5% BP figure, since that calculated percentage will be greater than the 19.00 minimum that is added to lower priced posters.
Im thinking it's always been this way. The min. premium fee has just been raised, starting this coming Sunday.
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When I sorted the items for this Sunday's upcoming auction (high to low), it appears that any item that has gotten a bid of over 100.00 uses the 19.5% BP, but anything that is currently UNDER 100.00 so far, has the flat, minimum 19.00 premium added to the bid amount, rather than using the calculated BP percentage.
I looked at about 7 items, all with bids under 100.00 and they all came up the same way. (current bid + 19.00)
And the few items that are currently over 100.00, all have the 19.5% BP used as the calculation.
they went up this week I guess. May not actually have all that much of an effect, seeing as the average HA auction price in a weekly auction is $80-100 (they sold I think 494 posters Sunday and did just short of $41,000). It doesn't affect me a whole bunch as for the most part, there are no inexpensive items needed for my collection much anymore (just expensive, or rare.. dammit)
inflation!
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Personally, I resent the whole concept. As such, I have never even registered on the HA site. I find enough on the other sites to feed my habit.
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Personally, I resent the whole concept. As such, I have never even registered on the HA site. I find enough on the other sites to feed my habit.
who cares if they charge a BP?
It's just a math solution. If I want to wind up paying $120 for an item, I only bid $100
if you can't do math (I know you can do math J), I can understand where that might create a problem.
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Rich loves his heritage.
T
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who cares if they charge a BP?
It's just a math solution. If I want to wind up paying $120 for an item, I only bid $100
if you can't do math (I know you can do math J), I can understand where that might create a problem.
Yeah, I can do math. The problem is that other folks can't or won't and that drives prices up. Good for Heritage, not so good for buyers.
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Rich loves his heritage.
it isn't love or hate. I think they do a good job, and the BP doesn't threaten me
Yeah, I can do math. The problem is that other folks can't or won't and that drives prices up. Good for Heritage, not so good for buyers.
well then HA isn't the problem. the problem is mathematically challenged collectors. The answer? Teach more math in your spare time.
T, is it okay for Jeff to create an educational sub-forum "Know Your Math! Learn How to Calculate Buyer's Premium."?
;D
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who cares if they charge a BP?
It's just a math solution. If I want to wind up paying $120 for an item, I only bid $100
I won't buy anything from them, either.
Make life easier for your clients, not harder.
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I won't buy anything from them, either.
Make life easier for your clients, not harder.
and there's nothing wrong with that Jim!
there are businesses I refuse to deal with myself.
For instance, I boycott all hair salons, because I think they are biased towards people who have hair and so I don't spend my money at those places.. take that HairCutts!
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and there's nothing wrong with that Jim!
there are businesses I refuse to deal with myself.
For instance, I boycott all hair salons, because I think they are biased towards people who have hair and so I don't spend my money at those places.. take that HairCutts!
But you'll never give up the beauty salon for some manscaping
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But you'll never give up the beauty salon for some manscaping
come on down and do the trimming. maybe you can shape it to Australia
:-*
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Good for Heritage, not so good for buyers.
A real time celebration of capitalism then.
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come on down and do the trimming. maybe you can shape it to Australia
:-*
I've only heard this in relation to women... Are all your bits there?
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I've only heard this in relation to women... Are all your bits there?
I have big hands... unlike Donald Trump
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now here's one auction I will def avoid.
aside from the retail starting prices (or higher)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Lederer-Ocean-s-11-Screenplay-ca-1959-Lot-58-/182164976745?hash=item2a69e0f469:g:UZ8AAOSwmtJXWXPJ
the auction states: Buyer's premium: Up to 30% applied to the winning bid
holy crap.. the kicker? The listings do not have any additional text to explain further.
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Let alone the other huge RED flag, that their positive feedback is all of 71.4% :o
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Does anyone know how long the HA BP has been set at 19.5%?
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Does anyone know how long the HA BP has been set at 19.5%?
several years
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This subject is getting a good bit of discussion over on MOPO, too.
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What's MOPO
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What's MOPO
Its a message board, that also discusses movie posters. It's been around for 21 years.
Here's the site link, if you want to sign up. Its not a forum like this, tho. You receive messages via email and the MOPO system.
http://www.filmfan.com/
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Thanks for the link. I can do without extra emails, but it's nice to have the link to see that they are discussing.
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Its a message board, that also discusses movie posters. It's been around for 21 years.
Here's the site link, if you want to sign up. Its not a forum like this, tho. You receive messages via email and the MOPO system.
http://www.filmfan.com/
Actually, it is a mailing list and preceded all the forums. It grew out of the old newsgroups back when spam started making them unusable. Of course these days most folks don't even know the newsgroups exist.
MOPO these days seems to be the go to place for the older established dealers. Sites like this one cater more to individual collectors.
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Actually, it is a mailing list and preceded all the forums. It grew out of the old newsgroups back when spam started making them unusable. Of course these days most folks don't even know the newsgroups exist.
MOPO these days seems to be the go to place for the older established dealers. Sites like this one cater more to individual collectors.
I remember finding MOPO back in '96 or '97...not much has changed really. :P
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[drift = OFF]
Back to the topic. I am coming around to Rich's point of view. Need to view this as just another fixed expense, like shipping/handling that needs to be figured in to the price and strategy. If it isn't worth $20+$15 shipping, then don't bid. There have been several times on other sites I have bid on a stupid $1 poster thinking it would be part of a shipment of more expensive posters. Then I get overbid on the expensive ones and find myself paying $15 P+H on a $1 poster. Live and learn.
Still unlikely to bid at HA. Something there just makes me uncomfortable.
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As Grey posted about this, on MOPO. I emailed him and asked his permission before re-posting it here.
"Sorry for the delay in responding. I’ve been preparing my July catalog so my time on MOPO has been reduced. I think that many of the answers that you’ve read from some MOPO members here are indeed correct. Heritage made the decision to raise its minimum Buyer’s Premium on lots selling below $100 which, by the way, I argued against, but which the executive team believed necessary due to our expense structure.
Frankly, to believe that we have little expense involved in selling these posters other than just “listing material” is a bit naïve. Heritage employs roughly 500 personnel in over ten cities with showrooms and overhead in the US, Europe and Asia. We have 30 web programmers and IT staff alone, along with accounting, photography, legal, marketing, etc. Saying this was done out of greed is again unfair; Heritage did it so that it could continue to offer lower priced lots singly rather than in bulk without losing money on them.
Posters selling for less than $100 are limited in each weekly, but some of our buyers really appreciate being able to buy just the posters they want rather than having to buy groups. And I think nearly all of our consignors prefer to sell their posters either singly or in the smallest groups possible. Of course any consignors who prefer not having the $19 come into play with their lots can ask us to group-lot any posters we think might sell for less than $100, and we will happily do so.
The buyer’s premium, as stated well by David, is indeed prominently displayed whenever you wish to make a bid or to raise a bid. There is nothing deceptive nor mysterious about that, in my opinion, and as stated so well by Rich, it is the buyer’s choice to accept or not.
I don’t believe I have more to say concerning this and for those who feel it is an undue increase or financial burden to them, I regret that, because I do care very much about my buyers (and consignors).
But again, the bottom line is that it was the only way Heritage management could justify our continuing to offer posters valued under $100, without automatically auctioning them in bulk lots that would bring at least $100 hammer per lot."
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I would have thought costs go down over time the bigger the company gets, like through efficiency gains.
Buyers Premium increase is more money for Heritage and out of the pocket of the seller or buyer. The seller takes the hit if people bid considering the overall price incl BP, buyer takes the hit if they don't factor it in.
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I'm curious Steve. if it were to say cost me $7 per item inc labor to get a consigned item up for sale, how much money do you think I need to make in order for my business to thrive, as opposed to me running a charitable organization for collectors?
just a question. I'm curious what your honest answer would be
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Can't see how my comment spawned yours for me to answer that. A million dollars. A percentage keeps up with inflation, fixed prices don't. Plus, looking at the overall picture rather than cost per item, getting the duds might add profit due to coming in with higher value consigned items and bigger auctions, more variety, whatever. I'm not going to argue about something different to what I posted about!
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Can't see how my comment spawned yours for me to answer that. A million dollars. A percentage keeps up with inflation, fixed prices don't. Plus, looking at the overall picture rather than cost per item, getting the duds might add profit due to coming in with higher value consigned items and bigger auctions, more variety, whatever. I'm not going to argue about something different to what I posted about!
but buyer's premiums are exactly what we are both talking about Steve. $19 is now the minimum 'make' for Heritage.
which is worse from a consignor's standpoint, one company taking $19 for paying business expenses and payroll, or another company taking 78% of a $7 sale to pay the same bills?
why do you think in my case, I turn away consignors that can't meet a criteria of single posters being able to sell for $25 on average in order to accept consignments?
no auctioneer is looking to do charity work and that goes for HA as well as EMP, MPB, or MPE
every one of us is in business for making money. I understand this goes against the grind for collectors who want to get $5000 posters for six-dollars-and-seventy-five-cents, but it has nothing to do with reality.
You don't have to buy at Heritage just like I don't have to buy anywhere else. They have something you want? Bid, or too bad for you!
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I guess I haven't read the details properly, for some reason I thought the BP % was going up. If it is the fixed cost of low value items going up something like from $15 to $19, then I'm not too fussed about that as it is probably just going up with inflation if looking over this cost over many years.
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I guess I haven't read the details properly, for some reason I thought the BP % was going up. If it is the fixed cost of low value items going up something like from $15 to $19, then I'm not too fussed about that as it is probably just going up with inflation if looking over this cost over many years.
it is indeed a fixed price, because you can't escape $1+$19
they now have minimum $20 auction items. Simple math.
1+1=2
2+2=4
3+3=6
simple math
1+19=20
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you can't escape $1+$19
I'm going to try to escape this conversation and this thread
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Hmm. Is a $4 increase really going to make a difference? Heritage requires 5K's worth from a single consignor. So YOU need to convince THEM you have 5K's worth for them to even call you back. And that evaluation is all in their estimation.
All they have to do is be more stringent/selective in terms of taking consignments. Taking an extra 25 percent (eg. $15 to 19) off the shitty ones etc is purely off buyers. Don't take the consignments if they suck that much, rather than taking them and making buyers cover the suck differential (which we so all the time, because we are sorry ass poster addicts)