All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => Authentication => Topic started by: Test1 on April 15, 2017, 07:39:23 AM
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Hey! guys,
I've just started to come across Thailand posters and I'm truly amazed at how good some of the artwork is on them, IMO some of them have some of the best artwork I've ever seen on movie posters.
What I'd really like to know is how safe it is to go after these Thailand posters, in other words have any of you got any good tips at all in making sure your buying the real deal and not re-prints/fakes? so are there any good things to look out for so you can be sure of what your buying?
For example I really like some of the horror Thailand posters for classic films like Evil Dead & A Nightmare On Elm Street, are these safe to buy or often faked?
I really like the look of these posters but just don't know enough about them, any helpful tips at all would be "GREATLY" appreciated.
Thank You!
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John, also check out this excellent post from Pea, a Thai poster seller who resides in Thailand, knows Thai artist, Tongdee and is also a member here on APF. She explained and try to clear up a number of authentication points quite well, regarding questions and comments made about reprints, restrikes etc. clap clap clap.
Post link: http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,7575.msg143032.html#msg143032
Thread link: http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,7575.0.html
I apologize for taking so long to reply to this thread, but after just getting over a recent illness I had to attend a funeral for my best
friend, and I wanted to verify some information before responding.
First off though, I would like to thank you for opening this thread and giving me a chance to clarify about Thai posters as much as possible.
I actually had a chance to talk with Tongdee and his assistant to verify some of the information about the posters and whether or not they
are authentic.
Tongdee would like to confirm that the Apocalypse Now 2-sheets are indeed authentic, but he has never seen the 1-sheets until recently so
he is unsure as to their origin.
Tongdee would also like to set at ease the worries about the posters being purchased from me being restrikes or not originals.
He said no one scanned or reproduced his artwork from the originals, as no Thai artists allow that. As to restrikes, it depends on the orders
of the rights owners of the films in Thailand. Although they can be reprinted for for use in the rural areas, the colors will mostly be
different and it will mainly be done for Thai movies, very rarely for foreign movies.
Usually there are two different types of artwork made, one is used for 1-sheets and the other for 2-sheets. The 2-sheets are almost alway
s reserved for big-budget release movies (Apocalypse Now, Terminator, Dances with Wolves, etc.). These can also be shown at the studio
owned or rights owned theaters in Thailand. 2 Sheet artwork is painted on 2 seperate boards. When boards put together for 1 sheet print,
there is line that can't be removed
Oftentimes when the 2-sheet art is used also for the 1-sheet, you will see a line in the middle of the poster (Dances with Wolves,
Terminator, etc.).
This is because they used a straight offset printing back then, and no Photoshop or digital correction. They are/were never printed by
demand of the artist, only by the request of the Thailand rights holder to be used as promotional material in the theater (both urban
and rural areas).
Condition can vary because the posters can be found from many different place, mostly from what we call liquidation theaters and they
were located both in urban and rural areas. When posters were sent to the rural area theaters they were usually folded (rarely kept rolled).
If the theater is a large one (mainly urban areas) and has spare room to keep the posters then they can be found in excellent condition, but
from smaller theaters and not kept up well then of course they will look old and dirty.
Thai movie posters have many different sizes and they were all dependent upon the demands of the right owners of the movies.
There were many companies importing movies and using different printing sizes and this is why Thai posters will come in different sizes.
Paper quality and size will usually depend on the following factors:
1. Price of paper in the different time period
2. Budget of the rights owner in marketing the movie
3. Relationship between the rights owner of the movie and printing company
4. Current economy in Thailand.
Hope this addresses some of the issues you had, and if I missed answering any of your questions please let me know and I will do my best
to answer.
Thanks,
Pea
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AWESOME Jeff as always thumbsup.gif thanks! for you help!
Really want to pick a few of these fantastic looking Thailand posters up, so any info that may help put my mind at rest that it's safe to do so is very welcome.
Do you own any posters from Thailand Jeff?
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John, the ones that I posted in the Thailand (by country) thread are mine http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,10875.msg219026.html#msg219026 as well as the 3 new arrivals that I posted to the April 2017 Acquisitions thread, a couple days ago, too. :)
I think the created art (vs photos pasted together) can be really great, especially when it varies from the typical art that was used in the US and elsewhere.
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John, the ones that I posted in the Thailand (by country) thread are mine http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,10875.msg219026.html#msg219026 as well as the 3 new arrivals that I posted to the April 2017 Acquisitions thread, a couple days ago, too. :)
I think the created art (vs photos pasted together) can be really great, especially when it varies from the typical art that was used in the US and elsewhere.
If you don't mind me asking Jeff, where do you usually buy your Thailand posters from?
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I love the hunt and search of this hobby, as Im not in any rush to find anything, so I often will begin by looking up a title on Google, then scour various sellers, ebay, etc, based on the search results.
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I love the hunt and search of this hobby, as Im not in any rush to find anything, so I often will begin by looking up a title on Google, then scour various sellers, ebay, etc, based on the search results.
Yes, the ones I've been looking at are all ebay sellers hence why I wanted to get a bit more of an idea about Thai posters in general, it's always good to have a rough idea of what exactly your buying, I usually steer clear of posters from other countries but some of the Thai ones just seem worth the risk.
Have you found that many of these Thai posters, say for example your Silence of the Lambs one can be picked up rather cheap?
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The Silence of the Lambs was from a fellow APF member, and not an online buy. I havent seen it listed for sale/auction very often - maybe a few times - so that might be a poster that tends to be a little more pricey. But I cant say for sure. Plus, it was done by Tongdee, who's such an amazing Thai artist.
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The Silence of the Lambs was from a fellow APF member, and not an online buy. I havent seen it listed for sale/auction very often - maybe a few times - so that might be a poster that tends to be a little more pricey. But I cant say for sure. Plus, it was done by Tongdee, who's such an amazing Thai artist.
What sort of prices would you put on Thai posters for the likes of They Live and A Nightmare on Elm Street? any idea at all? (approx.)
Would you expect original authentic ones to be $50 or $100 or much more?
Oh, and I noticed most of these ebay sellers are based in Thailand, so I don't know if that's a good or bad thing when buying original Thailand posters? (I assume good thing)
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Pea (who is a member here, and quoted in that other post) is based in Thailand and she sells on ebay, too. You should send her a PM and ask about certain titles and prices, too, John. I'm sure she'll get back to you.
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4549
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Pea (who is a member here, and quoted in that other post) is based in Thailand and she sells on ebay, too. You should send her a PM and ask about certain titles, too, John. Im sure she'll gt back to you.
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4549
Thanks! for the tip, I'll try that for sure Jeff. ;)
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Pea (who is a member here, and quoted in that other post) is based in Thailand and she sells on ebay, too. You should send her a PM and ask about certain titles and prices, too, John. I'm sure she'll get back to you.
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4549
Not been active on these forums since Jan this year, however I've tried the email option, so fingers crossed.
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I messaged her not too long ago..maybe a month or so, and got a reply. :)
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I messaged her not too long ago..maybe a month or so, and got a reply. :)
Well, I've given it a go so I'll hope for the best.
I just want to get a rough idea that's all, when looking at the prices of many of these Thai posters like the ones I've mentioned they all seem "very" cheap to me, now as far as I know Thai posters might just be cheaper than your average poster, but, I find that hard to believe considering how good the artwork is on some of them.
I would have thought Thai posters for films like They Live etc. would have cost far more than the price they're going for on ebay "if" they are indeed the genuine original poster.
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What sort of prices would you put on Thai posters for the likes of They Live and A Nightmare on Elm Street? any idea at all? (approx.)
Would you expect original authentic ones to be $50 or $100 or much more?
Oh, and I noticed most of these ebay sellers are based in Thailand, so I don't know if that's a good or bad thing when buying original Thailand posters? (I assume good thing)
I think, like anything, John, it's what the collector market and what people are willing to pay, comes into play too, when seeing some of the lower prices. Plus, there is that thought that some posters from various countries may not be as "hot" as those from others, and then tend to be sold for less, even for the bigger titles.
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And certain titles, like the Thai Apocalypse Now, are hard to find, and also go for a pretty penny.
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I think, like anything, John, it's what the collector market and what people are willing to pay, comes into play too, when seeing some of the lower prices. Plus, there is that thought that some posters from various countries may not be as "hot" as those from others, and then tend to be sold for less, even for the bigger titles.
Let me put it this way, most of the Thai posters I've seen on ebay and being sold by sellers based in Thailand are priced between $50-$300 now to me that seems really cheap when it's for big films like those I've mentioned, do those prices sound right to you? was your Silence of the Lambs somewhere between that price range?
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And certain titles, like the Thai Apocalypse Now, are hard to find, and also go for a pretty penny.
One Thai poster I did see which was a lot more expensive than most was for Halloween, except this one was being sold by someone based in the US, I think!
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Im sure sellers in the US will try to maximize their sales on well known US titles. cha-ching. ;D
And I dont consider 300.00 all that cheap for a poster, (depending on title, of course), so that also comes into play, in how prices and valuation are viewed.
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Im sure sellers in the US will try to maximize their sales on well known US titles. cha-ching. ;D
And I dont consider 300.00 all that cheap for a poster, (depending on title, of course), so that also comes into play, in how prices and valuation are viewed.
I don't want to jinx things, but, if/when I get a couple of these Thai movie posters I'll make to post them on here, I'm sure someone will soon point out if they don't look like the real deal. :)
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Things like paper and print details can often only be detected by seeing them in person, unless the faked (reproduced) print job is SO bad as to be fuzzy and horribly "off" color.
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Things like paper and print details can often only be detected by seeing them in person, unless the faked (reproduced) print job is SO bad as to be fuzzy and horribly "off" color.
I hear you Jeff, I know what you mean, I'll just have to hope any I buy feel right, I'll never know if I don't give some seller a chance, there not to expensive that I can't give it a try, so I'll just keep my fingers crossed that I find an honest seller/dealer.
If things don't work out I can always go back to UK quads and the odd UK one sheet as I'm more familiar with them and have a better idea of what to look out for.
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Thats the best to do, John. Plus, I ALWAYS look at a seller's feedback.. Im sure you do too. And read the comments about whether anyone has ever felt they received a bad reproduction (or even a good one). That is what I also use, (whether the posters are coming from overseas or from a seller here in the US).
I have yet to receive something that wasn't described, or was a repro or fake. whew.gif
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Yes, Jeff, no worries on that one, I always study the seller and their feedback as much as I possibly can before using them, that's a no brainer for sure.
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Hehehe, 300 USD is not what I call cheap :)
We need to be together on terms we use. By "fake" or "repro", I understand a fake cheap poster... but what about a one-off repro (like the Apocalypse Now), so rare, that value is higher than official poster; how would call this, a "fake" ? I prefer the term "Original repro"... some will use the broad term "commercial poster".
From my experience, just be wary with Thai poster, especially foreign classic film and don't trust anyone. The fact we haven't managed to get a clear answer on these Apocalypse 1sh shows that everything is muddy and grey. Collusion usually involves people. Pretty sure all 2 sheet are legit, so are the local Thai 1sh movie. As for classic movies, you need to do your search and get it cheap (100 USD max) if unsure.
@erik1925
Here are the photo of my poster, sorry taken under a yellowish shade resulting in bad color showing on picture. But it is high resolution :) Anyway, I am shit in taking pictures, sorry. I will try to take better pictures another time.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e0/93/aa/e093aa277b67aad8d63d699d1f4604f7.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/48/5a/26/485a261fa43ffc4b2a8f56886af7eae7.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/24/50/7d/24507d9ed89d2738679cf195df7a46a5.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/09/40/18/094018c8648acd8bf9a27b68f492251a.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e8/df/00/e8df000107e5110c4be472665f2c80e8.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/aa/fb/2a/aafb2a7512bc09ae4a0b7299f6ee68cb.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3e/f4/7c/3ef47c2e3291dde46c57f83be581a8d6.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/67/e4/2e/67e42e7dcbe0ab7ac1d1dba0dd949dc8.jpg
Very funny also to know that while trying to get story and estimates, some collectors wrote to me to say it is a fake and threw low ball offers
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,7575.msg219599.html#msg219599
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Yes, Jeff, no worries on that one, I always study the seller and their feedback as much as I possibly can before using them, that's a no brainer for sure.
Oh by the way, Test1, you can PM to get name of fake seller... it seems it is the way it works here :) I will just copy and past previous PM I got, ahaha
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Great pics and detail shots, Big Boss! Thanks for taking all of those. I see your one detail shot shows what looks like the artist's signature. It looks a bit stylized. Do you the name? The artwork is really very nice, too.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/24/50/7d/24507d9ed89d2738679cf195df7a46a5.jpg)
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Great pics and detail shots, Big Boss! Thanks for taking all of those. I see your one detail shot shows what looks like the artist's signature. It looks a bit stylized. Do you the name? The artwork is really very nice, too.
Well, I failed considerably !!! I am going to take better photo this weekend (you are the only one asking for this).
Indeed, the artwork is really really nice and stylised.
As for the signature and artists, it is written there - http://illustrated007.blogspot.co.ke/2011/07/dr-no-poster-from-thailand.html - and there - http://www.swankmoderndesign.com/eyegasm.htm (note the owner of exhibition :) ) - that the artist is "Piak Poster" (second well known Thai artist with Tongdee)... but strangely the signature doesn't read like "Piak" more like something like "Venturimos"??
** Note the
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Maybe Pea or Phil (Ocularbeing) might be able to shed more light on that stylized signature.
There is what looks like an initial above the main signature (possibly the letter "M"?). And the first letter of the full name almost looks like maybe a stylized, letter "P"?
Gotta love a mystery. sherlockholmes.gif
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Hi just saw this. Here are a couple things. Piak Poster (Somboonsuk Niyomsiri) owned a studio that painted posters for the distributors. Two of his other employees were Banharn and Tongdee and Piak was Tongdee's mentor. Many times in studios like his several artists worked on the same poster. Some did faces and others did scenery...it all depended. So when there were several artists in his studio that worked on one poster the signature was done in the way you see on the DR. NO poster:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4724/39126515555_39055f4c04.jpg)
When Piak did a poster where he was the only one who worked on it the signature looked like it does below. This can be found I believe on the older posters that Piak did when he was on his own. You can also find this signature on the poster version he did "more recently" for TEARS OF THE BLACK TIGER. Here are examples of both posters:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4740/39126514795_d3b615c72a_o.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4768/25153721667_8a8b4d81ae.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4676/26151890798_e8b2d74180_o.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4723/40024709291_f348ca776e.jpg)
Unfortunately I'm 99% sure the majority of DR NO posters are fakes including the 2 I purchased from the most unscrupulous dealer I've ever dealt with who is very prominent in Thailand. This dealer also prints and sells the 1 sheet Apocalypse Now poster that has been verified to be a fake (only 2-sheets were made). If you've purchased the Dr. No you probably have dealt with him. Years ago I found all the Photoshop fixes on the Apocalypse Now poster and below are the ones I found on the DR NO. You can clearly see the difference in quality where a more-than-likely tear or blemish was covered up. Look how crisp the flames of the fire are...then 'poof' you get this blurry area with odd strange lines. This is not what a paint brush would create. The dealer took me for over $1500 on an order of several posters (including a couple other fakes) before I found out what his game was.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4665/39126515405_2eaf9b98ee_o.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4673/39992744602_e8e4de00fc_o.jpg)
I included the DR. NO poster in the "Eyegasm: The Art of Thai Movie Posters" show due to it's incredible design. I'm stuck with about 5 or 6 different fake posters I purchased that I have never resold and never will. It's listed that the DR NO poster was sold on the Eyegasm site but it was not. I would never sell fake posters I've gotten stuck with though I've seen many others that have. Just eat the loss and move on is what I believe. It's what I had to go through to learn my lesson but it also taught me how to inspect posters for authentication. I'm guessing all serious collectors go through it at least once. So is life.
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Unfortunately I'm 99% sure the majority of DR NO posters are fakes including the 2 I purchased from the most unscrupulous dealer I've ever dealt with who is very prominent in Thailand
Great information on the artists and the warnings on the fakes.
I don't think it would be a bad thing to out this dealer so that all can avoid dealing with him.
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Hi MWright! I fell for some of these shenanigans as well and got the dealer to take a couple back in trade. I have the Dr. No and Apocalypse Now because they are so darn good looking. I had an Apocalypse Now two sheet in 2013 for a few days, though traded it because it needed restoration. Wish I would have kept it now. Your framed 2 sheet is fabulous! The seemingly endless supply of some Thai posters should continue to keep this thread lively. As far as reprints and dealers, I found dealer(s) that sell reprints also had some great originals I wanted as well. Then there was also the night markets where you need a good flashlight to check the posters. Most of my night market buys were for such fair prices (usually 30 to 300 Baht: 1 to 10 U.S. dollars) that I was pretty carefree and mainly just hunted striking images I liked regardless of movie country of origin. Wish I was at a night market now!
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Great information on the artists and the warnings on the fakes.
I don't think it would be a bad thing to out this dealer so that all can avoid dealing with him.
His name is Santi and he has a classic movie poster shop below the Lido theater in Thailand. Also okiehawker I would never trade anything back with him, what I would like is for him to give me my $1500 he took from me. I will never see it I know and so be it. It happens to all of us at some time.
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Wow.. so sorry to read that, Mike.
Does this guy ever sell on ebay? If so, do you know what his user name there is? Again, just asking so all can stay clear of this scammer.
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He used to way back when but stopped completely about 4(?) years ago. Sad thing is he sells a mixture of great hard to find original Thai posters and blatant fakes. He owns several cool original Thai poster paintings and has a great collection.
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Thanks.
He sounds like the tloce and Gregg Egbert of Thailand.
Selling and dealing in both fakes AND originals. moron1
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Thanks for the excellent information, Mike.
Out of interest, do you have a Dr No without that blurring? If not, could it be that the photo/scan of the original painting was a bit blurry when they created the digital image for the poster and that this is present on all of them?
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Bought a thai kung fu poster but I know its real , def vintage paper stock with usual mild tanning so if the paper looks too fresh then beware.........
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Bought a thai kung fu poster but I know its real , def vintage paper stock with usual mild tanning so if the paper looks too fresh then beware.........
I agree for the most part, though in the 60's they used to send some of their printing to be done by a company in Japan that used great paper. That paper still looks fresh to this day with many of my posters! It's much thicker as well.
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Bought a thai kung fu poster but I know its real , def vintage paper stock with usual mild tanning so if the paper looks too fresh then beware.........
Tang, do you have a pic (or will you be making a video clip) of this Kung fu poster that you got?
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https://www.youtube.com/v/Q_LgcwUpLIg