All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => Restoration => Topic started by: archstanton on July 18, 2015, 01:44:52 AM
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I'm considering having a couple inserts and half sheets restored and I keep reading about gelatin mounting. I noticed Poster Mountain and Lumiere both offer it. I also noticed Bruce had some items up in his last major auction that were gel mounted and looked really nice (e.g. Some Like It Hot 1/2sh).
Personally, not knowing much about it besides a description of the process, I'd like to know if anyone has an opinion on it vs. paperbacking for cardstock posters. Is it considered acceptable in the hobby and to collectors? Are there circumstances that paperbacking would be the better choice or vice versa?
It seems like a pretty cool technique in that there is no visible backing afterwards and the paper lies flat. However, I'd really like to hear some thoughts from others on this process.
Thanks!
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It is a solid and wonderful process, with the end result not being like your item had any backing or treatment (unlike paper or linen backing).
Both PM and Mario have done it a while now, and it is just as acceptable as either of the other preservation/conservation methods by collectors.
A few here have also had things gel backed. And with "thumbs up" results, if memory serves. thumbsup.gif
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It is a solid and wonderful process, with the end result not being like your item had any backing or treatment (unlike paper or linen backing).
Both PM and Mario have done it a while now, and it is just as acceptable as either of the other preservation/conservation methods by collectors.
A few here have also had things gel backed. And with "thumbs up" results, if memory serves. thumbsup.gif
Thanks for the reply -- good to know. I'm really intrigued by the fact that it has no backing material visible. I just wonder if there is a reason one would choose paperbacking instead? I imagine if the damage to a poster is more severe then paperbacking would be required. Regardless, I think I'll have to give this gel mounting a shot.
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old thread, but you cant have too much information.
http://stylec.yuku.com/reply/11139/another-conservation-process#reply-11139
(but do consider the fish)
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Thanks for the reply -- good to know. I'm really intrigued by the fact that it has no backing material visible. I just wonder if there is a reason one would choose paperbacking instead? I imagine if the damage to a poster is more severe then paperbacking would be required. Regardless, I think I'll have to give this gel mounting a shot.
Very true. If the original poster is damaged, overly brittle or in need of added support, Im sure many would do paper backing. And since paper backing has been the standard method for backing inserts and HS for quite a while, too, it is very much the norm.
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It's an excellent restoration method. Gel mounting and paper-backing each have their own pros and cons, of course.
An article at the Poster Mountain blog claims that John of PM innovated the practice. Here is the link, and there is some interesting info. there.
http://postermountain.blogspot.com/2013/09/gelatin-backing-secrets-revealed.html (http://postermountain.blogspot.com/2013/09/gelatin-backing-secrets-revealed.html)
In that article, they talk about how flattened out the piece is after gel backing. It's incredible how well the process does that.
Personally, I've had a 30x40 gel mounted by PM, and a 40x60 gel mounted by Lumiere, aka Mario Cueva. They both turned out well, but I prefer the results of the 30x40 done by PM. One is probably not necessarily "better" than the other, it's just personal preference of different final products from different folks.
Some other folks who have had stuff that has been gel mounted by PM and Lumiere had only positive things to say about it.
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Very true. If the original poster is damaged, overly brittle or in need of added support, Im sure many would do paper backing. And since paper backing has been the standard method for backing inserts and HS for quite a while, too, it is very much the norm.
Yeah, it may help to have the added support of the paper backing with stuff like that.
My 30x40 that was gel mounted at PM had really crumpled edges and some tears, and John told me how he added reinforcement strips to the edges, and gel mounted the whole thing. It's cool, as it's a hybrid of paper backing and gel mounting.
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Plus, with gel backing, there isn't that added extra layer of paper adhered to the back of the piece, keeping it a bit more "natural" in a sense, too.
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Plus, with gel backing, there isn't that added extra layer of paper adhered to the back of the piece, keeping it a bit more "natural" in a sense, too.
once a poster has been mounted in any fashion, it's natural state has been lost forever....
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once a poster has been mounted in any fashion, it's natural state has been lost forever....
That's why i said more natural, "in a sense;" with gel backing, there isn't an added, additional substrate layer that is adhered to the piece, covering the verso, like paper backing does. I've talked to a couple people who said when the gel process is complete, you almost cant tell that anything has been done.
Starling/Brian had his pressbook cover gel backed and was very happy with those results, too.
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Thanks for all the feedback. It sounds like I'll have to send one in to get gelled and see for myself. I'll likely go with Mario since I've used him a few times in the past for linen-backing and was extremely pleased, but I'm sure PM is fantastic, too, from what I've read on the forums. I'm a loyal customer.
Does anyone have any pictures of personal examples that they've had gel mounted?
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The two I mentioned above.
The Hustler 30x40
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx303/NeoLoco80/DSC09855_zps00abf0cb.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/DSC09855_zps00abf0cb.jpg.html)
Scarface 40x60
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx303/NeoLoco80/Posters/DSC08616_zps9009490b.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/Posters/DSC08616_zps9009490b.jpg.html)
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The poster, (the other Randy, long gone) posted in the thread I linked to, you couldn't see really anything except it looked like a new poster.
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The two I mentioned above.
The Hustler 30x40
Scarface 40x60
[URL=http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/Posters/DSC08616_zps9009490b.jpg.html]
(http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/DSC09855_zps00abf0cb.jpg.html)
Those look fantastic. Were either in rough shape before being restored?
In terms of longevity, is the gel backing process supposed to be durable and long lasting in comparison to paperbacking? Is it affected any less or more by heat, moisture, etc. than traditional methods? Is it correct that they can be stored rolled without any problems of it being difficult to flatten back out?
Sorry if I'm asking too much, just hungry for knowledge.
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Brandon, what a great set. That Hustler Paul Newman is to die for oh... :-*
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Those look fantastic. Were either in rough shape before being restored?
In terms of longevity, is the gel backing process supposed to be durable and long lasting in comparison to paperbacking? Is it affected any less or more by heat, moisture, etc. than traditional methods? Is it correct that they can be stored rolled without any problems of it being difficult to flatten back out?
Sorry if I'm asking too much, just hungry for knowledge.
Thanks, R and AS.
They weren't really rough pre-restoration, but they had issues.
The Hustler was severely crinkled, and flattened out perfectly, almost like new. It also had a lot of foxing, which was not bleached out, as that would have washed out all the colors. The after look is just a uniform, dark tint of the white areas, and the rest has the original colors, and all. There was some writing over the text on the side, and the original text was restored almost perfectly.
Scarface had several stains and pinholes. The post-mounting results are: it's not quite flat as The Hustler (and there are some waves in a few places), the texture of the back side is fairly rough (they sanded the back after removing it from the mount, a stark contrast to the back of the 30x40 done by PM that has almost the same texture post-resto.), the pinholes were filled in, but there was no attempt to recreate the letters and numbers that were damaged by the pinholes. It also took about 3 months, vs. about 2 weeks at PM.
So yeah, different folks, different work.
Regarding the other questions: paper and gel backing are good methods for longevity. They can be rolled after being gel-mounted. I'm sure that an expert like John or Mario would be glad to chat with you about any questions you have. In this article, there is a lot of good info.
http://www.postermountain.com/conservation.html (http://www.postermountain.com/conservation.html)
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Yes, I'm considering using PM since John developed the technique in the first place. It's just hard for me to switch to a different resto shop when I've been so happy with Mario's work in the past.
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Yes, I'm considering using PM since John developed the technique in the first place. It's just hard for me to switch to a different resto shop when I've been so happy with Mario's work in the past.
Another thing to consider (if you are) is cost. I would get a quote from both, if you are thinking along these lines, too. I'm guessing that PM would be more expensive than Lumiere. And, as Mario was trained by some of the best in other areas of restoration, I'm sure he learned and got the gel backing method "down pat" before he ever started offering it to any client.
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Another thing to consider (if you are) is cost. I would get a quote from both, if you are thinking along these lines, too. I'm guessing that PM would be more expensive than Lumiere. And, as Mario was trained by some of the best in other areas of restoration, I'm sure he learned and got the gel backing method "down pat" before he ever started offering it to any client.
Good point. I'm sure Mario is past the learning stage.
Yes, price is a concern as well, and Lumiere have always had great prices. I'll get a quote from both just to see what they say. I asked Bruce at emovie once who he uses and he recommended Lumiere, saying he's never seen such high quality work at such reasonable prices. That's how I ended up with Lumiere in the first place.
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Good point. I'm sure Mario is past the learning stage.
Yes, price is a concern as well, and Lumiere have always had great prices. I'll get a quote from both just to see what they say. I asked Bruce at emovie once who he uses and he recommended Lumiere, saying he's never seen such high quality work at such reasonable prices. That's how I ended up with Lumiere in the first place.
I'm sure he's always refining his techniques, but does it on "throw away items" of his own, that he has laying around for that purpose. thumbup
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Guys this idea of gel mounting is nothing but re-sizing the poster by adhering it to a temporary surface with the sturgeon glue vs. wheat/wallpaper paste. The woven polyester support acts like masa and a hard surface stretched linen. Except the woven poly doesn't stick to anything and can simply be pulled right off both the formica top and back of poster. The woven poly is nothing new. Conservators have used it for ages when glass blocking tissue mends. No expertise needed except using the right glue.
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Guys this idea of gel mounting is nothing but re-sizing the poster by adhering it to a temporary surface with the sturgeon glue vs. wheat/wallpaper paste. The woven polyester support acts like masa and a hard surface stretched linen. Except the woven poly doesn't stick to anything and can simply be pulled right off both the formica top and back of poster. The woven poly is nothing new. Conservators have used it for ages when glass blocking tissue mends. No expertise needed except using the right glue.
I thought you were banished? ;D
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I thought you were banished? ;D
:-X
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The two I mentioned above.
The Hustler 30x40
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx303/NeoLoco80/DSC09855_zps00abf0cb.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/DSC09855_zps00abf0cb.jpg.html)
Scarface 40x60
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx303/NeoLoco80/Posters/DSC08616_zps9009490b.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/Posters/DSC08616_zps9009490b.jpg.html)
Way nice, Brandon. cool1
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The more I've read and looked into this process, the more I would be tempted to try it, since, once all is said and done, the poster is not backed with any added, substrate layer, like masa-linen or paper backing.
The gel sizing is removed after (any) restoration or touch ups are done, and one can see/feel the back of the poster (or insert, WC etc), just like it was, prior to being worked on thumbsup.gif
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The more I've read and looked into this process, the more I would be tempted to try it, since, once all is said and done, the poster is not backed with any added, substrate layer, like masa-linen or paper backing.
The gel sizing is removed after (any) restoration or touch ups are done, and one can see/feel the back of the poster (or insert, WC etc), just like it was, prior to being worked on thumbsup.gif
In my experience, the attention to detail, as well as the gel resizing procedure of Poster Mountain, are much better than Lumiere's aka Mario Cueva's.
The backside of the 40x60 that Lumiere did is not close to the same as it was pre-restoration. Mario explained the process he uses, that is, he mounts the poster, then sands the back of it to remove all the residue. On my 40x60 (that I sold recently), it's fairly rough texture, and the poster is not completely even in thickness, as some areas were sanded more/less than others.
The 30x40 that PM did does not have that roughness on the backside. It's difficult to describe the texture. It's kinda like it has a very thin, even coating that makes the poster much more rigid and flat. Overall, it's much closer to the original, pre-restoration state of the poster.
Although this is not part of the topic here, frankly speaking, the customer service was also much better with PM.
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All good to know and learn Brandon. Thanks again for explaining how each felt, after being worked on bu both studios.
(And yes, Mario can oftentimes fall a bit silent or lax in the (email) response dept. He needs to pick up his customer service game there a bit). girly2.gif
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FWIW I decided to go ahead and have Mario gelback my "The Searchers" insert. It was folded and had some staple holes, edge wear etc. It turned out awesome. In my experience the poster came back feeling almost exactly the same as it did before -- I do not detect any remainder of the gel material. It was pretty cool to get the poster back and have no backing, it just looks and feels like a poster!
He shipped it back to me flat stating that I am free to roll it, but the folds that have been flattened out will hold up better over time if you don't repeatedly roll and unroll it. Very happy with the way it turned out.
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Would love to see how it turned out, archstanton. And its always good to read when a poster goes to the right home/collector, too. thumbsup.gif
Do you have a before and after pic, by chance?
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Mario does excellent work. I had a Searchers hs backed by him before I auctioned it & it came out very nicely
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Yeah I'll try to get a picture of it later; it's stored away right now. I've been meaning to get it framed but not sure if I want to do the same ol' HPF frames I always use or matte it and get it in a frame more befitting a western (some weather wood look or something).
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Mario does excellent work. I had a Searchers hs backed by him before I auctioned it & it came out very nicely
Yessir!! thumbup
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,6397.0.html
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Yessir!! thumbup
http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,6397.0.html
the proof was in the pudding.. good thing the pudding was not used for the backing..........
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the proof was in the pudding.. good thing the pudding was not used for the backing..........
Unless it had been vanilla.
No worry about chocolate stains, then.
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The more I've read and looked into this process, the more I would be tempted to try it, since, once all is said and done, the poster is not backed with any added, substrate layer, like masa-linen or paper backing.
The gel sizing is removed after (any) restoration or touch ups are done, and one can see/feel the back of the poster (or insert, WC etc), just like it was, prior to being worked on thumbsup.gif
Not true. The gel stays on/in the poster- but is invisible. Same with starch backing. It's like ironing a shirt - the rigidity comes from the gel/starch left on/in the poster.
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Not true. The gel stays on/in the poster- but is invisible. Same with starch backing. It's like ironing a shirt - the rigidity comes from the gel/starch left on/in the poster.
Ah.. thanks.
So it's almost like the gelatin backing re-sizes the paper to give it that added support.
thumbsup.gif
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Ah.. thanks.
So it's almost like the gelatin backing re-sizes the paper to give it that added support.
thumbsup.gif
Exactly!
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Here is a resource on sizing/resizing paper: http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/sg/bpg/pcc/17_sizing-resizing.pdf
Don't nerd out on it too much. cheers
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I scanned parts of this pdf, so didn't get too 'into it.' ;)
But this small part was interesting:
(http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q719/spitfire3992/gel_zpsedrtg7rb.jpg)
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The gel stays on/in the poster- but is invisible. Same with starch backing. It's like ironing a shirt - the rigidity comes from the gel/starch left on/in the poster.
Right. Some say the restored piece is "impregnated" with the gel. Seems like a great preservation technique.
I scanned parts of this pdf, so didn't get too 'into it.' ;)
But this small part was interesting:
(http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q719/spitfire3992/gel_zpsedrtg7rb.jpg)
Cool to see more of the science and history of this. cool1
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Right. Some say the restored piece is "impregnated" with the gel. Seems like a great preservation technique.
Cool to see more of the science and history of this. cool1
It sure does. thumbup
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can it be done with agar agar?
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can it be done with agar agar?
A gar? I don't see why not... fish glue
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mmBw3uzPnJI/TTYqudJ0i-I/AAAAAAAB2HY/w9_2lNFM17E/s1600/alligator_gar_fish_10.jpg)
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close
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar
"Agar is a jelly-like substance, obtained from algae. It was discovered in the late 1650s or early 1660s by Mino Tarōzaemon (美濃 太郎左衛門) in Japan, where it is called kanten."
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To me the main advantage is that this Resto is more truthful to the nature of the poster. A poster is paper so it is good having that "paper look and feel" that somehow is lost with LB. No disrespect intended to any LB posters! :)
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To me the main advantage is that this Resto is more truthful to the nature of the poster. A poster is paper so it is good having that "paper look and feel" that somehow is lost with LB. No disrespect intended to any LB posters! :)
I totally agree. And of course with gel backing comes the fact that you have to handle them the same way as an unrestored poster -- no linen buffer or anything to protect them.
That being said I do like the "textured" look that linen backing gives to certain posters. Had a Blade Runner one sheet backed, and it almost looked like a painting on canvas when I got it back from Mario -- really cool.
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I totally agree. And of course with gel backing comes the fact that you have to handle them the same way as an unrestored poster -- no linen buffer or anything to protect them.
That being said I do like the "textured" look that linen backing gives to certain posters. Had a Blade Runner one sheet backed, and it almost looked like a painting on canvas when I got it back from Mario -- really cool.
Wonderful poster. Congratulations. I have LB posters too. And love them!
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I totally agree. And of course with gel backing comes the fact that you have to handle them the same way as an unrestored poster -- no linen buffer or anything to protect them.
That being said I do like the "textured" look that linen backing gives to certain posters. Had a Blade Runner one sheet backed, and it almost looked like a painting on canvas when I got it back from Mario -- really cool.
Mario does very good work. And he is nice to deal with, too.
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In my experience, the attention to detail, as well as the gel resizing procedure of Poster Mountain, are much better than Lumiere's aka Mario Cueva's.
The backside of the 40x60 that Lumiere did is not close to the same as it was pre-restoration. Mario explained the process he uses, that is, he mounts the poster, then sands the back of it to remove all the residue. On my 40x60 (that I sold recently), it's fairly rough texture, and the poster is not completely even in thickness, as some areas were sanded more/less than others.
The 30x40 that PM did does not have that roughness on the backside. It's difficult to describe the texture. It's kinda like it has a very thin, even coating that makes the poster much more rigid and flat. Overall, it's much closer to the original, pre-restoration state of the poster.
Although this is not part of the topic here, frankly speaking, the customer service was also much better with PM.
I was in communication with another collector (who's not an APF member) and we were discussing gel backing a bit. He said he was not a fan, especially of Mario's technique, as he said the finished item (it was a half sheet) felt like sand paper on the back. It had that same texture, to him.
So it's almost like 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Gel backing allows one to see the back of a poster/HS/LC/insert, but may produce this rougher feel, and linen or paper backing covers the back side entirely, covering over any stamps, writing or other, that someone may want to see or preserve.
3rd option, is to leave it alone (unless it is in dire shape and needs that conservation/preservation touch to keep it alive and well).
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I was in communication with another collector (who's not an APF member) and we were discussing gel backing a bit. He said he was not a fan, especially of Mario's technique, as he said the finished item (it was a half sheet) felt like sand paper on the back. It had that same texture, to him.
So it's almost like 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Gel backing allows one to see the back of a poster/HS/LC/insert, but may produce this rougher feel, and linen or paper backing covers the back side entirely, covering over any stamps, writing or other, that someone may want to see or preserve.
3rd option, is to leave it alone (unless it is in dire shape and needs that conservation/preservation touch to keep it alive and well).
Yeah, "sandpaper" is a good way to describe the finished product from Lumiere. It's just the method that Lumiere uses that causes that. The 30x40 that Poster Mountain gel backed is not even close to that texture.
I'm not sure what the difference is between PM's and Lumiere's method, but as you can see on the backside of this 30x40 that PM did, it is still the same look as it was before (other than the white edges and lower area, that were reinforced with paper-backing).
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx303/NeoLoco80/DSC08876_zpse793b580.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/DSC08876_zpse793b580.jpg.html)
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Good pic there, Brandon. cool1
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None of my gel-backed items look or feel like that either. Mario sucks. AVOID AVOID AVOID.
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None of my gel-backed items look or feel like that either. Mario sucks. AVOID AVOID AVOID.
Quick draw???
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None of my gel-backed items look or feel like that either. Mario sucks. AVOID AVOID AVOID.
Maybe I got lucky but my Mario gel backed insert doesn't have this starchy look or feel. The last thing I'd say is "Mario sucks", the guy does great work at fair prices.
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Maybe your experience was different. I was relaying MINE.
He:
1. Did not return emails and phone calls
2. Completely lied about the time line the piece would be finished by 4 months
3. Utterly ruined a window card from the 1920s by airbrushing over the whole thing a different color than the original, and the piece wasn't even correctly attached to the paperbacking, it was cracking and falling off the backing.
4. Did not respond to my lengthy email and pictures detailing how he ruined the card.
But sure, he has fair prices, so by all means keep using him. Good luck!
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I do recall, Brian.. he did wreak havoc on that WC.
:'(
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But on a more positive note (and sorry for being so harsh, but he butchered that card. I had to sell it), I have had wonderful experiences with Dario, poster mountain, and the ladies at fourth cone restoration, who have interesting stories about other customers having awful experiences with Mario. Just a heads up!
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Ok that's not a quick draw. This is the first I've heard of any issues with him. Since you mentioned the other Three, Dario is probably the only one I would trust with anything. The other two were all born from the same family tree where restoration is more important than conservation. I hope I am wrong and everything is still peaches and cream 50 years from now...
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@ Charlie Good points. I trust Dario. Incidentally I always hope that a restorer gets the right balance between conservation and restoration. In Europe the conservation approach is a bit too one sided.
@ Brian I am with you on this one. To me customer services is very important. Mario is not good at it. Dario to me is the one. I might try some of the others you have recommended tho.
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Ok that's not a quick draw. This is the first I've heard of any issues with him. Since you mentioned the other Three, Dario is probably the only one I would trust with anything. The other two were all born from the same family tree where restoration is more important than conservation. I hope I am wrong and everything is still peaches and cream 50 years from now...
Yeah, I have thought about what you have wrote on the subject, and you might be right about it Charlie. I just need to take comfort in the fact that in 50 years, I will be a feeble old man, and if John and Jaime (who are both part of the tree you speak of) used practices that will corrode or destroy the paper they worked on, the high end of this hobby would probably collapse. They both have worked oh the best of the best posters. All the universal horror, all the high-end stuff they sell at HA. So in 50 years, if all these posters turn to dust, my Bette Davis collection will be in good company :) Sorry, this helps me sleep at night. I'm neurotic, a little haha.
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@ Charlie Good points. I trust Dario. Incidentally I always hope that a restorer gets the right balance between conservation and restoration. In Europe the conservation approach is a bit too one sided.
@ Brian I am with you on this one. To me customer services is very important. Mario is not good at it. Dario to me is the one. I might try some of the others you have recommended tho.
Hey how did ya decide to ship all the way from the UK to California?
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Good pic there, Brandon. cool1
Thanks. The gel restoration that Poster Mountain does is a beautiful thing.
Maybe your experience was different. I was relaying MINE.
He:
1. Did not return emails and phone calls
2. Completely lied about the time line the piece would be finished by 4 months
3. Utterly ruined a window card from the 1920s by airbrushing over the whole thing a different color than the original, and the piece wasn't even correctly attached to the paperbacking, it was cracking and falling off the backing.
4. Did not respond to my lengthy email and pictures detailing how he ruined the card.
But sure, he has fair prices, so by all means keep using him. Good luck!
Thanks for sharing your experience here. There were a few things similar in my experience with Lumiere/Mario.
With the work he did on my poster, he missed the deadline we agreed on. When I first talked with him, I told him it needed to be done in almost 3 months, and I sent it off and it was pretty much down hill from there. I emailed and called a few times to check on the status, and the only clear answer was about 5 days before the deadline. He told me it was ready but just needed some final touches, and if I wanted it by the date we agreed on, I could have it overnight shipped to me, at my cost. There was no apology or anything. Of course, I wasn't going to pay for overnight shipping when he had almost 3 months to complete the work.
Although he didn't completely butcher my poster, the overall work was really half-hearted. I don't expect things to be perfect, but the final product had a lot of issues.
Lumiere's prices are just slightly lower than Poster Mountain's. Sometimes, spending a few extra bucks is well worth it in the long run.
So in 50 years, if all these posters turn to dust, my Bette Davis collection will be in good company :)
As well as my Ferris Bueller's Day Off video poster, etc. 8)
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Thanks. The gel restoration that Poster Mountain does is a beautiful thing.
Thanks for sharing your experience here. There were a few things similar in my experience with Lumiere/Mario.
With the work he did on my poster, he missed the deadline we agreed on. When I first talked with him, I told him it needed to be done in almost 3 months, and I sent it off and it was pretty much down hill from there. I emailed and called a few times to check on the status, and the only clear answer was about 5 days before the deadline. He told me it was ready but just needed some final touches, and if I wanted it by the date we agreed on, I could have it overnight shipped to me, at my cost. There was no apology or anything. Of course, I wasn't going to pay for overnight shipping when he had almost 3 months to complete the work.
Although he didn't completely butcher my poster, the overall work was really half-hearted. I don't expect things to be perfect, but the final product had a lot of issues.
Lumiere's prices are just slightly lower than Poster Mountain's. Sometimes, spending a few extra bucks is well worth it in the long run.
As well as my Ferris Bueller's Day Off video poster, etc. 8)
I think Ferris and Bette would be in good company, that's for sure.
And it continues to amaze me that Mario has completely got off scot free for doing half-assed work and being completely unresponsive, while Posterfix gets dragged over the coals (rightly so, btw) for being only slightly more awful. Hopefully we can spread the word!
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Hey how did ya decide to ship all the way from the UK to California?
And i have shipped them to Canada too!
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Bruce from emovieposter recommended Lumiere to me as he said that's who he uses. I find it odd that Bruce would choose someone who does crappy work.
I of course understand if you had bad experiences with Mario then your particular opinion is somewhat justified, but I've had nothing but great work come back from him and he has always gotten everything back to me in a month or a little less. I was having communication issues via email with him but then it turned out all me emails were going to his junk folder, and once his wife rectified this, they would respond to me very quickly.
I wonder, does Mario have underlings who also perform restoration, and maybe do less quality work? If so, there should be some more quality control and training before letting pieces go out the door. That's just a guess, I don't know that much about how he runs his shop.
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Bruce from emovieposter recommended Lumiere to me as he said that's who he uses. I find it odd that Bruce would choose someone who does crappy work.
I of course understand if you had bad experiences with Mario then your particular opinion is somewhat justified, but I've had nothing but great work come back from him and he has always gotten everything back to me in a month or a little less. I was having communication issues via email with him but then it turned out all me emails were going to his junk folder, and once his wife rectified this, they would respond to me very quickly.
I wonder, does Mario have underlings who also perform restoration, and maybe do less quality work? If so, there should be some more quality control and training before letting pieces go out the door. That's just a guess, I don't know that much about how he runs his shop.
I'm sure a good number may have a story where something came back and was not what was expected. It was like Brandon's recent discussion about the work that Jaime Mendez did to his German poster. And HA still uses him all the time.
No one is perfect, and it really can sting when the work paid for is sub par. No question about that.
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Ah, the old junk mail excuse. That's a good one!
But in all seriousness, yes, I know many people that still use him. And it seems to me that if the piece is more expensive, the work is often of better quality (from what I have heard). If he thinks he can pull something over on you, like me and many many others, he will, by doing crappy half-assed work and not responding to questions. OF COURSE he is nice to Bruce and probably does decent work for him, because Bruce throws a ton of work his way (like he did with you). That's just good business, not to piss off your best clients. I'm just saying beware, if Mario thinks you are a "nobody" expect to be disappointed. I wasn't even THAT upset (as Jeff can attest, I was very understanding) with how long it took, since I was expecting the work to be done well. But when I received a very butchered piece of work, I started digging a little further and found MANY horror stories. Buyer beware.
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And i have shipped them to Canada too!
hmm i may have to send Dario and Mario Jamio and Charlio four identical posters as a test :)
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I can concur with Brian's example. The WC he worked on for Brian was far from what it should have been.
It made me :'( to look at it, too.
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Ah, the old junk mail excuse. That's a good one!
But in all seriousness, yes, I know many people that still use him. And it seems to me that if the piece is more expensive, the work is often of better quality (from what I have heard). If he thinks he can pull something over on you, like me and many many others, he will, by doing crappy half-assed work and not responding to questions. OF COURSE he is nice to Bruce and probably does decent work for him, because Bruce throws a ton of work his way (like he did with you). That's just good business, not to piss off your best clients. I'm just saying beware, if Mario thinks you are a "nobody" expect to be disappointed. I wasn't even THAT upset (as Jeff can attest, I was very understanding) with how long it took, since I was expecting the work to be done well. But when I received a very butchered piece of work, I started digging a little further and found MANY horror stories. Buyer beware.
Ha! Yes, the junk mail excuse is an old one, but I believed it because if I sent a message directly from the form on the website it was responded to quickly; but if I copied and pasted his email directly to my Hotmail account then those didn't get responded to until I brought it up to them.
As for being a "nobody", that is really what I am. He's done 6 pieces for me over the last two years, and I always ask for a quote even though I know he'd give me one anyways (but I just want him to know cost is an issue for me).
Anyways, I guess all we can do is speak to our own experiences. Clearly some have had a negative (or at least less than great) experience; but many other (as I've read in the forums), have had great work done by him and are very happy with his services. Maybe I'm just "special".
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Yup, so true, at the end of the day, if he works for you, keep using him! His prices are very affordable compared to the others, that is for sure.
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Yeah, I have thought about what you have wrote on the subject, and you might be right about it Charlie. I just need to take comfort in the fact that in 50 years, I will be a feeble old man, and if John and Jaime (who are both part of the tree you speak of) used practices that will corrode or destroy the paper they worked on, the high end of this hobby would probably collapse. They both have worked oh the best of the best posters. All the universal horror, all the high-end stuff they sell at HA. So in 50 years, if all these posters turn to dust, my Bette Davis collection will be in good company :) Sorry, this helps me sleep at night. I'm neurotic, a little haha.
It would be interesting to know if their methods and materials change based on the value of the poster.
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hmm i may have to send Dario and Mario Jamio and Charlio four identical posters as a test :)
I've wanted to do this. Even thought about a fundraiser to send say 10 posters to the 10 most respected backers and analyze the results... It would probably be well over a grand...
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I've wanted to do this. Even thought about a fundraiser to send say 10 posters to the 10 most respected backers and analyze the results... It would probably be well over a grand...
I will admit I was going to send you one on magicians' paper that would dissolve when you went to wash it :)
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Arch...
Lumiere did a gel mount for me: A Fistful of dollars, some wear, discoloration on the white areas, slight crossfold seperation, and wrinkling (which I hate). I instructed that I would like to keep the NSS stamp. Poster returned and I am very satisfied. Size will change slightly, so wait to get the frame until poster is returned and measured.
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Arch...
Lumiere did a gel mount for me: A Fistful of dollars, some wear, discoloration on the white areas, slight crossfold seperation, and wrinkling (which I hate). I instructed that I would like to keep the NSS stamp. Poster returned and I am very satisfied. Size will change slightly, so wait to get the frame until poster is returned and measured.
Hey Ba,
What do you mean when you said the (poster) size changes slightly? Due to what?
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Hey Ba,
What do you mean when you said the (poster) size changes slightly? Due to what?
I have an insert that was gel-backed and it augments the shape of the poster some, so it is not the original 14 x 36. It does not fit into my spotlight frame I purchased for inserts. I'm guessing it's about a little less than 1/4 an inch larger.
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So the poster paper can expand a bit, due to the gel sizing?
Interesting.
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So the poster paper can expand a bit, due to the gel sizing?
Interesting.
Yeah, And also I think posters change sizes when linen-backed as well, even slightly. Water and paper-fibers...
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Thanks, Brian. I never considered the fact that after a poster was washed etc, that it may retain a very slightly larger size, once it had dried. So it sounds like the gel sizing must "help" the paper to hold that slightly larger size.
Again, really interesting. thumbup
(And then, normally, (with traditional linen backing), that bit of a linen border that is left, even if no more than 1/4-1/2" all the way around, in some cases).
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Brandon, are either of your gel treated pieces slightly larger in their dimensions, too?
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Brandon, are either of your gel treated pieces slightly larger in their dimensions, too?
Yeah, both are. I'm not sure exactly how much. Probably between 1/4 and 1/2 inch in length and width.