All Poster Forum
Common Poster Subjects => Authentication => Topic started by: raulleaf on June 04, 2011, 12:55:36 AM
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Was looking at Ed's new awesome FoP site and noticed his Mad Max 1sht had "Litho in US"; I know mine doesn't so I visited Bruce's site to check some photos of past auctions; what importance does the "Litho in US" play? If it is absent what does that say about authenticity?
With "Litho in US"
From FoP:
(http://www.filmonpaper.com/site/media/2011/02/MadMax_onesheet-10.jpg)
From emovieposter.com
(http://emovieposter.com//images/moviestars/20040427/550/mad_max.jpg)
Without "Litho in US"
From emovieposter.com
(http://emovieposter.com//images/moviestars/AA090618/550/mad_max_SA00076_L.jpg)
I have two Bronco Billy 1sht one having this marking and one without; the one without has a Canadian exchange stamp on the back... Does the absence of "Litho in US" mean it is International?
Thanks!
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OK finally got around to photographing the Bronco Billys I spoke of...
Assuming this to be US 1 Sht
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0274-00.jpg)
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0274-01.jpg)
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0274-02.jpg)
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0274-03.jpg)
Assumed Canadian 1 Sheet but still has rating...Notice the different NSS # (800030 vs 800013) and the Canadian Exchange Stamp...
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0275-00.jpg)
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0275-01.jpg)
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0275-02.jpg)
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0275-03.jpg)
(http://www.chubbycharlies.com/poster_gallery/mpf/001/images/0275-04.jpg)
Why would anyone waste their timing faking Bronco Billy? So why the varying NSS # and strange variation in details? Just curious they are both pretty beat up anyway and then of course its still Bronco Billy...
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That's odd. They both have MPAA ratings.
I didn't know they would use them in Canada.
My mistake. The second has no MPAA.
Yeah, it must be the INTL.
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Help me I still see the PG on the second one. Did I make a mistake?
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You're right.
The MPAA is on both.
That is odd.
Maybe Chris (CSM) or one of our other Canadian members can confirm.
I'm sure he'll be checking in here soon, Charlie.
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You're right.
The MPAA is on both.
That is odd.
Maybe Chris (CSM) or one of our other Canadian members can confirm.
I'm sure he'll be checking in here soon, Charlie.
This might be a job for NSFGE...
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According to LAMP, the version lacking the "Litho in USA" and union logo is the original release (http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/posters/db/poster.asp?pid=14290).
According to LAMP, the "Litho In USA" with the union logo is the 1983 re-release (http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/posters/db/poster.asp?pid=38429).
However, I wonder if LAMP knew about the Canadian issue?
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/MadMax1979SSForiginalrelease.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/MadMax1979SSForiginalrelease2.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/MadMax1979SSF1983rrunionlogo.jpg)
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/MadMax1979SSF1983rrunionlogo2.jpg)
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Ed Poole provided some additional info to me via email:
When I was asked to look at the Mad Max one sheets, I pulled all the hi res images that I had available, which was 15-20. EVERY image I had on file was one or the other. The logo was tiny so I asked the dealer to send me a close up photo of just the logo. It very clearly stated GCIU on the logo.
ALL of the posters that I had with the union logo had that SPECIFIC union logo.. the GCIU logo. The GCIU did not come into existance until 1983 making it impossible to have been printed before that time.
That is NOT to say that there are not any other posters out there. It was common during this time to have studio issues. If any exist, I did not have them on file. I am only comparing these 2 specific posters and identifying the R83.
Now to answer your question on the possibility of being a Canadian issue. - it has nothing to do with it.
You have to understand the Canadian distribution. There were 4 Canadian NSS branches. They were regular warehousing branches just like most of the other US branches. 3 of the 4 only had small printing capabilities and that was to print snipes, censorship material and press material. In other words, they received their US posters like a regular NSS warehouse and applied the local censorship snipes on them for distirubution. That’s why you normally see the US ratings box covered over. Only one branch had full printing capabilities.. the Montreal branch. And that was because they served a very high French public, so they printed the French versions.
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Your the man Mel! Glad I have the original and I thought maybe it was a fake.... How long had this information been out. Did LAMP just post it? I wonder if it is the same issue with the Bronco Billy. When did the GAU (for the Bronco Billy) stamp start showing up on posters....
Thanks Mel I really appreciate not forgetting about this one.
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For clarity or greater confusion - I have a Mad Max US International one sheet which has "Litho in USA" and the "GAU" union logo which I feel certain was issued at the time of the original release.
Mark
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For clarity or greater confusion - I have a Mad Max US International one sheet which has "Litho in USA" and the "GAU" union logo which I feel certain was issued at the time of the original release.
Mark
Can you post picture of the logo area on your poster? The one referred to is the GCIU horizontal logo; I think the GAU logo is vertical...
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Pulled up the release information from IMDB:
Release dates for
Mad Max (1979)
Country Date
Australia 12-Apr-79
UK 10-Dec-79
Portugal 16-Jan-80
Italy 17-Jan-80
Netherlands 17-Jan-80
Spain 5-Feb-80
Hong Kong 15-Feb-80
West Germany 29-Feb-80
USA 9-May-80 (Los Angeles, California)
USA 6-Jun-80 (Minneapolis, Minnesota)
USA 13-Jun-80 (New York City, New York)
South Korea 26-Jul-80
France 13-Jan-82
USA 13-May-83 (re-release)
Finland 1985 (video premiere)
France 9-Jul-08 (re-release)
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Found this on Penn State's Library site:
The GCIU was the product of a series of mergers within the printing craft unions. Several craft unions split off from an early craft organization, the International Typographical Union (ITU). Forming independent unions were the International Printing Pressmen and Assistants' Union (IPPAU) in 1896; International Brotherhood of Bookbinders (IBB) in 1892; the International Stereotypers and Electrotypers Union (ISEU) in 1901; and the International Photoengravers Union in 1904. Union mergers began in the 1960s. The Amalgamated Lithographers of America, formed in 1915, merged with the International Photoengravers Union (IPEU) in 1964 to form the Lithographers and Photoengravers International Union (LPIU) which had a membership of 60,000. THE IBB and the LPIU became the Graphic Arts International Union (GAIU) in 1972. The IPPAU merged with the ISEU in 1973 to form the International Printing and Graphic Communications Union (IPGCU). The IPGCU and the GAIU merged in 1983 to form the Graphic Communications International Union. In 2005, the GCIU merged with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT), to establish The Graphic Communications Conference of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (GCC/IBT).
http://www.libraries.psu.edu/digital/findingaids/1568.htm
This would support Ed's claim that the GCIU didn't form until 1983...
However the year 1983 was also the year of the re-release of Mad Max. Is it possible, if Mark does have the GAIU logo, (http://www.trademarkia.com/logo-images/graphic-communications-international-union/gau-graphic-arts-international-union-official-union-label-73479379.jpg) that some were printed before the merge and some after?
This is a brand page for the GAU GRAPHIC ARTS INTERNATIONAL UNION OFFICIAL UNION LABEL trademark, which is owned by GRAPHIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERNATIONAL UNION, AFL-CIO, CLC in Washington , , 20036 . Write a review about a product or service associate with this GAU GRAPHIC ARTS INTERNATIONAL UNION OFFICIAL UNION LABEL trademark. Or, contact the owner GRAPHIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERNATIONAL UNION, AFL-CIO, CLC of the GAU GRAPHIC ARTS INTERNATIONAL UNION OFFICIAL UNION LABEL trademark through the Legal Correspondent listed with the U.S. for all licensing, use, and/or questions related to the GAU GRAPHIC ARTS INTERNATIONAL UNION OFFICIAL UNION LABEL trademark.
On Tuesday, May 08, 1984, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for GAU GRAPHIC ARTS INTERNATIONAL UNION OFFICIAL UNION LABEL. This trademark is owned by GRAPHIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERNATIONAL UNION, AFL-CIO, CLC, Washington , 20036 . The USPTO has given the GAU GRAPHIC ARTS INTERNATIONAL UNION OFFICIAL UNION LABEL trademark serial number of 73479379. The current federal status of this trademark filing is CANCELLED - SECTION 8.
Classification Information
International Class Code(s): A
US Class Code(s): A
Primary Class:
Class(es) Status: Sec. 8 – Entire Registration
First Use Anywhere: 9/4/1972
First Use In Commerce: 9/4/1972
http://www.trademarkia.com/gau-graphic-arts-international-union-official-union-label-73479379.html
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It is officially confirmed. If Bruce says it's so, it's so...
Mel, Thanks for helping me solve this one...
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/mad_max_83.jpg)
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Now that's solved, but what's the deal with the one that has NO union logo at all?
Bruce
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Well, I thought that we have only been able to find two different versions. I went through all your past auctions and only found two versions. And, Mark never snapped a pick of his vertical logo. Would it make sense that one without the logo be an international, or printed internationally? Without unions? Were there any print houses back then that weren't unionized?
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Found this on IMDB:
The version released in the U.S. was re-dubbed with American accents. It has been widely claimed that the distributor, American International Pictures (AIP), feared that American audiences would have had problems understanding the thick Australian accents spoken by the actors. However, now that the original track has surfaced Stateside, it is revealed to be poorly mixed, with the music score often overwhelming dialogue (the very important conversation between two doctors that Max overhears is almost entirely drowned out). AIP's releases were predominantly seen in drive-in theaters (where in fact most of this picture's US box office revenue was earned) and where at this time the audio came through little speakers hanging on the car windows. This would definitely have made the audio problems worse and is the probable motivation for the alternate audio track (AIP having mostly American voice actors available to them).
Any difference in Drive In vs. Cinema posters?
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I noticed the non-logo version (poster right) is slightly cropped on the left compared to the union logo version (poster on left). How can that happen if they are printed from the same printing plate?
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/Compare-2.jpg)
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Here is a large format with the vertical logo:
Click to zoom....
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/GAU_4060_MM.jpg) (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/GAU_4060_MM.jpg)
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Here is Amittyville Horror (1979) from American International with Vertical Logo:
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/ammity.jpg) (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/ammity.jpg)
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Pretty neat article on the printing unions: http://www.docspopuli.org/articles/UnionBug.html
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This thread reminds me that I need to get myself another one. George Miller gave me a copy of the poster 5 years ago when I was traveling in Australia and then put his big fat signature smack in the middle of the poster. The nerve of that guy! So now I need a clean one.
puke2 gun2
T
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This thread reminds me that I need to get myself another one. George Miller gave me a copy of the poster 5 years ago when I was traveling in Australia and then put his big fat signature smack in the middle of the poster. The nerve of that guy! So now I need a clean one.
puke2 gun2
T
Awesome, you can send me the one with his Signature on it then. It should be with someone that will appreciate it. :D
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Here is a large format with the vertical logo:
Click to zoom....
(http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/GAU_4060_MM.jpg) (http://www.abideposters.com/apf_junk/GAU_4060_MM.jpg)
Not a one sheet. That's the 40x60. (http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=58024&lotNo=54201#Photo)
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...And, Mark never snapped a pick of his vertical logo. Would it make sense that one without the logo be an international, or printed internationally? Without unions? Were there any print houses back then that weren't unionized?
OK, I've taken a picture of it and will post it later. My poster is the rare US International and as I said previously it has the GAU logo.
...and Thierry, you are very fortunate to have that signed Mad Max poster. There are many dozens of clean, unfolded examples around and I would gladly swap one for your uniquely defaced paper, to add to my director-signed poster collection.
Mark
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Not a one sheet.
Yeah, I said "large format" because I couldn't remember if it was 30x40 or 40x60 and the HA site was dragging for me last night.
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OK, I've taken a picture of it and will post it later. My poster is the rare US International and as I said previously it has the GAU logo.
...and Thierry, you are very fortunate to have that signed Mad Max poster. There are many dozens of clean, unfolded examples around and I would gladly swap one for your uniquely defaced paper, to add to my director-signed poster collection.
Mark
Dying from anticipation; the third variation....
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Awesome, you can send me the one with his Signature on it then. It should be with someone that will appreciate it. :D
If you live close to Melbourne, I promise to take you with me to have your own copy signed the next time I'm down under (which could be as early as next year, since I believe we have a wedding over there.)
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So here is the Mad Max International (with apologies for shadows on the poster caused by the unusually strong sun for this time of year)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/marklawd/MadMaxInternational006.jpg)
Close up of GAU logo
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/marklawd/MadMaxInternational001.jpg)
Close up of title/style
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/marklawd/MadMaxInternational002.jpg)
I'll post the poster image on the "Posters for Aussie Films" thread as well.
Mark
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Beautiful poster Mark! Thanks for taking a photo. That logo is legit for the first release; I don't think you should have any concern. I was thinking you had the US (non-international) poster with a GAU logo...
So we are still back to two known (US release) versions... This may also rule out the logoless be an international version....
Do we know of any other logoless posters?
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If you live close to Melbourne, I promise to take you with me to have your own copy signed the next time I'm down under (which could be as early as next year, since I believe we have a wedding over there.)
I still need to buy the poster! Like I said, it's a love/hate thing for me. Not a top priority, and after seeing Mark's Int...hmmm I think it's sunk further down the list!
Anywho, I am near Melbourne, so we should catch up over lunch or something if possible...
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Great detective work fellas! I've updated the details on my site to reflect the new info.
clap
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Very nice, Mark.
The best paper on this title, to be sure.