All Poster Forum
Off-Topic Discussion => Board Issues, Suggestions, Updates, Questions & Fixes => Topic started by: AdamCarterJones on March 13, 2011, 01:54:50 PM
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Hi guys,
There's no doubt about it - this forum has, well, in terms of genuine member rate shot to the top.
But, I find that the lack of an easy to find, easy to see 'LINKS' section is detrimental to the growth of the forum.
We have sections for 'Movie Posters', 'Movie Talk', 'Advertising Posters' etc.
Yes, there is the 'Dealer/and or collector site links' section, but in all honesty, it's not great.
What do you think about having a dedicated section for 'Links', with separate headings for Poster Dealers, general movie memorabilia dealers, auction sites, reference sites and miscellaneous.
It could be placed at the bottom, underneath the section 'Off-topic Discussion'.
And maybe all possible links would have to be approved by T/Holiday and/or moderators.
T & Holiday - I know your views and visions from what I have read, but I think this could potentially increase traffic to the website because you may get a lot more people coming forward offering to exchange links - it can only help the forum, which is a good thing.
What does everyone think?
I think it is a good idea and of benefit to everyone here.
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One part of me says SPAM. The other part says it would be a good way to recruit new members to the APF Army and possibly enable Holiday and Thierry to make a few bucks, as well as some sellers wynk.
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Here's the thing. Ten years ago MoPo (which at that time had 500 members) asked all dealers to link to them. I added a link, but then noticed that most other dealers did not. So I told the list owner that I would not send my bidders to a site where they would find links to other sites that did not also send them their bidders. But he refused to insist that those who had a link on MoPo link back, so I had to remove my link.
Ten years later MoPo has less members now than it did then (not that there is anything wrong with that, if that is what you want, an intimate group of old-timers). But without new blood, you eventually get a feeling that "everything" has been said, and the forum grows slower and slower (except of course for endless "For Sale" and "For Auction" posts!).
But if you want to keep growing, you need to TRADE links with dealers and auctions, and NOT give links to those who won't reciprocate. That way, lots and lots of new collectors will see the links all over the web, and many will check it out, and if they are not treated badly, they will stay, and the forum can grow exponentially.
But is is for Thierry and Holiday to decide.
Bruce
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Good idea Adam.. but i can see Bruce's point, too, which make a lot of sense. Trading links with those who reciprocate back will generate that interest and keep the forum growing with potential new members and dive business, as well.
Jeff
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But is is for Thierry and Holiday to decide.
Bruce
That's right, Bruce.
I hope T & Holiday have a think about it at least.
MPF is pretty much dead in terms of participation for whatever reason - I still go over there - and MoPo essentially is for the veterans (unfortunately at times ignoring new members).
Yes, Jeff, link exchange is the way forward - this is what I meant.
APF has clear potential to grow and grow just like Bruce said.
I know the intentions of T & Holiday are to keep the forum commercial free, which is fine, but a link exchange system would truly work in increasing exposure of this place.
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I see this cart steering toward the path that ended moviepostertalk , I would give a loud hell no myself.
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Doing what Bruce said would surely be the way forward IMO.
It's proven that link exchange helps increase traffic to websites.
A dedicated section could be one that is closed to comments by all members.
Those only able to post could be Holiday & T (and possibly the moderators) so that they could add or take away links.
It's just an idea to build the forum; one that is up to T & Holiday, and if they don't wish to go with it, then no problem, but I feel it would be a missed opportunity.
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I would be willing to put together a website to accomplish this goal. Like Bruce said, only those dealers who are willing to link back would get a link to their site. Link all of the forums and dealers, willing to participate. No fees involved, just free advertisement for those who are willing at my cost.
Cj
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Hey Cj,
I'm actually very, very surprised the likes of T & Holiday have not replied to this section whilst participating in various discussions throughout the forum. Given they are the guys who rule the roost, I would have thought the basis of my initial post, and those by NeoLoco, Jeff & Bruce, is one of benefit to the forum as a whole. Alas, maybe it is because I created the topic and not someone else... Read into that what you will.
If you do create the website you mention, you would have to get the name right.
Try a few, and then do it! I'm pretty sure if you did all the behind the scenes work well enough your site would shoot to the top of Google etc, and a whole host of people would be willing to take part.
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the day this forum opened i asked if i could exchange links, although i dont think they want links plastered all over the place i would have still liked T to get off his ass and get a banner created so i can link to this forum..
over a year on...
still waiting..
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Yeah, how's this dump ever gonna get any new blood without links?
It's becoming a stagnant pool of hog waller...
wynk
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As a recent joinee (word), I have to say that I joined this community largely with the hope of finding posters I was having great difficulty acquiring. I learned a lot here, this community has been invaluable to my collecting, but the main reason I came here was still to find posters I wanted to buy. In the Wanted forum, there are a number of threads I started that have turned up some conversation but no actual results. Finding dealers and people willing to sell posters is very difficult.
Because let's face it, most people here are collecting, not selling. Everybody is looking for things, not trying to get rid of them. A links section would be a way to expand on what I feel is a weak section of this community. Of course there are a number of big dealers here, but I can't tell you how many hours I've spent clicking through pages and pages of Google results trying to find some obscure poster website that will have what I want.
A links section, even if I never found what I wanted, would save me so much time.
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Disheveled
I certainly hope you have set up Want Lists on our site for those posters you want. It is a one-time thing, and once you do it, you will get e-mailed if we EVER get that item (of course then you will still have to win it, but at least you are on an even ground with everyone else).
Bruce
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Disheveled
I certainly hope you have set up Want Lists on our site for those posters you want. It is a one-time thing, and once you do it, you will get e-mailed if we EVER get that item (of course then you will still have to win it, but at least you are on an even ground with everyone else).
Bruce
I actually haven't set one up yet, I didn't realize that was how it worked. I do however check eMovie every day compulsively hoping for one of my two big ones. (UK Raiders and AUS Empire Strikes Back).
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Well, unfortunately, still no reply by the forum owners.
Baffled. Give up. So much for trying to help the forum grow. :-\
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I see this cart steering toward the path that ended moviepostertalk , I would give a loud hell no myself.
I agree...
Well, unfortunately, still no reply by the forum owners.
Baffled. Give up. So much for trying to help the forum grow. :-\
Sometimes, silence is itself an answer...
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What's the point in NOT trying to promote the forum to let it grow? :-\
Like Ted said, this place is pretty stagnant in terms of new members.
This is a suggestion thread - surely a suggestion thread is an area that requires the response from the forum owners? Right?
People wish to promote this place, but aren't getting the support from them. Why?
I know most people here hate Andy on MPF, for whatever reason, but he has proven reciprocated linking works.
And he gets new members daily. I have spoken directly to a few of them on more than occasion, so whether or not he makes up some of them (an accusation made by a few) - I don't know, but one thing's for sure, he doesn't make up all of them.
It would be decent of Thierry and Holiday to at least reply to suggestions and state their opinions.
Like Jonny said, how long does it take to create a banner link?
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And he gets new members daily
Shame they don't post.
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Shame they don't post.
Well, I went there first. Only came here because Mel sent me a PM. It wasn't the links though. I found MPF through a Google search. APF did not show up in that search.
One last thing. I was initially rejected and had to beg to gain admission here. Took a couple of days. I know you are trying to keep out the bots, but I think you are telling legitimate members to go away as well.
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Well, I went there first. Only came here because Mel sent me a PM. It wasn't the links though. I found MPF through a Google search. APF did not show up in that search.
Same story here except I got the APF link cause I bought from Dale and he had it in his confirmation email.
I think I only posted once or twice there. See how lucky you all are?
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I see this cart steering toward the path that ended moviepostertalk , I would give a loud hell no myself.
Can someone explain this to those of us that have no clue
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Can someone explain this to those of us that have no clue
I second that motion.
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Third that.
I am not really understanding it either. The only thing that comes to mind is that it might be to keep this site dealer beholden/sponser free?
Okay. I really have no clue 8)
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This is a suggestion thread - surely a suggestion thread is an area that requires the response from the forum owners? Right?
laugh1 You are exercising your freedom of speech and they are exercising their freedom to choose to not respond. ;) IMO it's mighty cool of Holiday and Thierry to allow this thread, and also that people are comfortable enough to challenge what they want in this forum. One of the main reasons they likely wanted to start this forum was that people wouldn't be telling them how they run it, and having dealers with their links might lead to a bunch of senseless bickering over how it is run. IMO they have summed it up nicely in the past, that they like people here but if people have issues with how it is run, then they can take a hike.
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I fail to see how any links section will increase traffic to the forum,most of the topic headings are already here within the forum,with the exception of memorabilia..if this forum starts to turn into a James Bond Keyring discussion..im moving on elsewhere..
When i click your link to Bondposters Adam,its a major dissapointment and does nothing to enhance my knowledge of posters in any way..all your website is,is a showcase of Bond posters,i can get that information thru google.
A forum is a forum,,not a desire to increase revenue,,i think this forum will grow at its own pace,there is no desire to be the coolest kid on the block like yesterday.. IMO
Stew
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Stew,
Why are you giving me a dig?
This is about promoting this website, not about me.
I'm not attempting to sell anything here :-\
Or turn this into some sort of James Bond Keyring discussion - where did that come from??
Yes, you click on my website and see posters, and you are more than entitled to your opinion, but I do guarantee you see some you have never seen before and cannot find on Google, so actually in a way that does enhance your knowledge of posters, specifically Bond posters, which is great! ;D But also, you should remember I have stated publicly what information will go onto the website in the future. (Oh, and also, I don't sell from my website so I gain nothing on that side.)
Relevant links increase traffic to a website - it is proven.
Ask any web designer. Google, essentially, is a massive links machine, as is Yahoo! and Bing.
NeoLoco, yes, I understand what you are saying, but it is a suggestions section ...
Free speech or whatever, shouldn't the owners reply to all suggestions?
It's a bit of a difficult one, but they asked us to suggest, so at the very least they should say ye or nay, whether or not it is me or anyone else asking the question.
Well, I went there first. Only came here because Mel sent me a PM. It wasn't the links though. I found MPF through a Google search. APF did not show up in that search.
One last thing. I was initially rejected and had to beg to gain admission here. Took a couple of days. I know you are trying to keep out the bots, but I think you are telling legitimate members to go away as well.
And I don't believe for one moment Thierry and Holiday would allow any dealer to tell them how to run this place when they are so hot on forum admissions as described in the above post by jayn_j.
Well ... eyeroll ... One tried.
(I must state for the record: This suggestion has no personal gain for me - I just wanted to aid the forum growth)
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Adam,it wasn`t a dig,its my opinion.
Im dubious to your claims that many posters i would not be able to find on google...please give examples...
The james Bond keyring thing was related to memorabilia...did you not read my post?
Stew
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Free speech or whatever, shouldn't the owners reply to all suggestions?
It's a bit of a difficult one, but they asked us to suggest, so at the very least they should say ye or nay, whether or not it is me or anyone else asking the question.
Well ... eyeroll ... One tried.
(I must state for the record: This suggestion has no personal gain for me - I just wanted to aid the forum growth)
Now you're saying that they "should say ye or nay". In what part of the topic "Suggestions" does it say "suggest something and one of the forum owners will respond."?
I think it's safe to say that we all love having you here as much as bed but seriously, come on man, this is another example of me coming here to waste some time and ending up wasting my wasted time. :D
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A few things.
As tou now NSFGE has never had sponsors, advertising or whatever, I am happy for dealers to have a link in their signature, link to specific items in their posts. Link to their site, ebay, MPB auctions, whatever in the FS section. I don't add links, don't ask for links in return for the advertising they do get from posting.
Rich DID have a banner on MPB, but he removed it, don't know if its back or not.
AND despite this, I have had HUNDREDS of emails over the years asking, begging, THREATENING to get me to, Ban certain member/s, delete certain post/s, disclose certain IP/s, All sorts. Some people were/are very passionate about it.
I can't imagine the pressure IF these people were either paying me every month, or we had struck a link exchange deal.
To be your own boss, even if you don't make a buck, feels good. And end of the day, Both T and H have said before, its no skin off their nose if the site doesn't grow. Everyone wants it to be the best it can be, but you maybe the best it can be is smaller, but FREE.
Just a thought.
PS: check the amount of links on the front page of MPF.
PS: check the amount of posts in the last week.
PPS: if Andy gets THAT many new members as claimed, it means nothing if they don't post - except that they might click one of the dealer links, so the dealer is the winner, NOT the forum.
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My stagnant hog-waller post was partially in jest.
Holiday and T have made it clear that this is a place to socialize and have fun without any of the restrictions sponsors might bring or attempt to impose.
This is just a place for us poster ho's to hang out.
Ain't it cool?
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You know, I didn't even see this thread before I posted what I did in the other section. Seems the topic is more apropos that I thought.
Thierry and I will digest what's there and in the other thread. It seems that a change is needed, now that I consider the other opinions out there. It started with Cj and now his single voice has multiplied into a chorus!
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It started with Cj and now his single voice has multiplied into a chorus!
To be fair, It actually started with Adams suggestion and starting this topic. I only took it behind the scenes.
Cj
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Wow. There's a lot to digest. BTW, Adam, I wasn't ignoring the thread. I've been busy with life is all and I've only glanced at the movie poster and graphic art poster sections. I missed this one. How's that for diligence?!
Anyway, I need some clarification from Dale on what was meant by his post. MPC imploded, I know that, and I know at a basic level it was caused by infighting. I don't know how this issue of links and banners and whatnot would lead us in that direction, and I'd like to know to avoid that peril if it exists.
There's one thing mostly that keeps us from growing -- neither Thierry nor I have the time to move the site forward. We're fortunate that it's taken on its own steam and it chugs along on its own. But to make these changes, we would need someone with some more time to dedicate to the task. Also, we are not technical minded. I'm an attorney and Theirry is... well, he's just Thierry. I'm a smart guy, but without the time to figure out how to add links and banners and the like, it will never get done.
My initial view was like someone recently posted - FUCK NO! But Bruce's comments got me to thinking that it's for the good of the hobby and to avoid future boredom that we get new people over here, and people who participate at that. I note that while expresso beans has 30K members, proportionately speaking, they have even less posting over there. It's not about numbers, but participation.
I don't want to repeat Mopo's mistake - if we do links, they will be reciprocal or not at all. My concern has been favoritism and getting beholden to people. Like Ari said, there's great relief in not having taken people's money for advertising, and therefore not be accountable to them. But, as much as we have tried to avoid accountability, we now have it with a growing sense that we should feed the forum.
I've been spending more time at eb these days as I collect more art prints. It's a slick site with a lot of nice functionality. EB costs an arm and a leg to run. Right now, this forum costs about $600 annually to run, a cost that Thierry and I split. That's with member participation to moderate it. If member participation continues, specifically with technical expertise to handle the modifications needed to create links and banners as need be, either that has to come from member participation, or it will lead to increased expense.
EB's example is a good one, I think. But I throw it out there for you to consider with the links/banners issue: do we allow for donations to defer increased expenses if we go in that direction? EB does, and when I saw how useful the site is for me, I sent them $20 as a donation. They have no membership dues. They have no advertising. They are member-supported through donations only. It seems to me, though, that it always has to be through member support. As soon as we solicit outside funds from advertisers or whatnot, we're dead in the water.
When Thierry and I started this, it was clearly "ours". Correspondingly, we could care less who stayed and who went. That's changed a bit now. In just over a year, the forum has grown into something that belongs to us all. Just like NS4, the participants have taken over, which is the whole point I guess. It's for this reason - to address those who have so commented - that we "allow" this discourse. That word "allow" really sucks, because that's not it. The spirit this place has and will always be free participation, without censorship, and with only the lightest moderation to keep the place in order.
But like Spiderman would say, with ownership comes great responsibility. If you all are serious about some of the changes you are suggesting, then greater participation will be needed to make it happen.
Thoughts?
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http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,154.0.html
My thoughts are once you start bartering links, you give someone a voice whether you think you do/care or not. Some voices are louder than others in the hobby. Holiday/Thierry, you do not have any invested interest on the retail side of the house, so in theory you shouldn't have the same issues that Jon was dealing with.
Believe it or not, not everyone in the hobby likes everyone else, and there is some bad blood between a few folks as we have seen over the years through the forums. I just think opening up the links, invites some alternative interests in once you start having retail sites hosting links.
End of the day, it really doesn't matter a whole lot to me, we saw a once thriving forum go down in flames once, it sucked honestly, and would hate to see it happen again, but again, maybe your interests being different than Jon's will make a difference.