Any thoughts on gel mounting?

[archstanton]

I'm considering having a couple inserts and half sheets restored and I keep reading about gelatin mounting.  I noticed Poster Mountain and Lumiere both offer it.  I also noticed Bruce had some items up in his last major auction that were gel mounted and looked really nice (e.g. Some Like It Hot 1/2sh).

Personally, not knowing much about it besides a description of the process, I'd like to know if anyone has an opinion on it vs. paperbacking for cardstock posters.  Is it considered acceptable in the hobby and to collectors?  Are there circumstances that paperbacking would be the better choice or vice versa?

It seems like a pretty cool technique in that there is no visible backing afterwards and the paper lies flat.  However, I'd really like to hear some thoughts from others on this process. 

Thanks!

[erik1925]

It is a solid and wonderful process, with the end result not being like your item had any backing or treatment (unlike paper or linen backing).

Both PM and Mario have done it a while now, and it is just as acceptable as either of the other preservation/conservation methods by collectors.

A few here have also had things gel backed. And with "thumbs up" results, if memory serves. 

[archstanton]

It is a solid and wonderful process, with the end result not being like your item had any backing or treatment (unlike paper or linen backing).

Both PM and Mario have done it a while now, and it is just as acceptable as either of the other preservation/conservation methods by collectors.

A few here have also had things gel backed. And with "thumbs up" results, if memory serves. 

Thanks for the reply -- good to know.  I'm really intrigued by the fact that it has no backing material visible.  I just wonder if there is a reason one would choose paperbacking instead?  I imagine if the damage to a poster is more severe then paperbacking would be required.  Regardless, I think I'll have to give this gel mounting a shot.

[Ari]

old thread, but you cant have too much information.

http://stylec.yuku.com/reply/11139/another-conservation-process#reply-11139

(but do consider the fish)

[erik1925]

Thanks for the reply -- good to know.  I'm really intrigued by the fact that it has no backing material visible.  I just wonder if there is a reason one would choose paperbacking instead?  I imagine if the damage to a poster is more severe then paperbacking would be required.  Regardless, I think I'll have to give this gel mounting a shot.

Very true. If the original poster is damaged, overly brittle or in need of added support, Im sure many would do paper backing. And since paper backing has been the standard method for backing inserts and HS for quite a while, too, it is very much the norm.

[Neo]

It's an excellent restoration method.  Gel mounting and paper-backing each have their own pros and cons, of course.

An article at the Poster Mountain blog claims that John of PM innovated the practice.  Here is the link, and there is some interesting info. there.

http://postermountain.blogspot.com/2013/09/gelatin-backing-secrets-revealed.html

In that article, they talk about how flattened out the piece is after gel backing.  It's incredible how well the process does that. 

Personally, I've had a 30x40 gel mounted by PM, and a 40x60 gel mounted by Lumiere, aka Mario Cueva.  They both turned out well, but I prefer the results of the 30x40 done by PM.  One is probably not necessarily "better" than the other, it's just personal preference of different final products from different folks.

Some other folks who have had stuff that has been gel mounted by PM and Lumiere had only positive things to say about it.

[Neo]

Very true. If the original poster is damaged, overly brittle or in need of added support, Im sure many would do paper backing. And since paper backing has been the standard method for backing inserts and HS for quite a while, too, it is very much the norm.

Yeah, it may help to have the added support of the paper backing with stuff like that.

My 30x40 that was gel mounted at PM had really crumpled edges and some tears, and John told me how he added reinforcement strips to the edges, and gel mounted the whole thing.  It's cool, as it's a hybrid of paper backing and gel mounting.

[erik1925]

Plus, with gel backing, there isn't that added extra layer of paper adhered to the back of the piece, keeping it a bit more "natural" in a sense, too.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Plus, with gel backing, there isn't that added extra layer of paper adhered to the back of the piece, keeping it a bit more "natural" in a sense, too.

once a poster has been mounted in any fashion, it's natural state has been lost forever....

[erik1925]

once a poster has been mounted in any fashion, it's natural state has been lost forever....

That's why i said more natural, "in a sense;" with gel backing, there isn't an added, additional substrate layer that is adhered to the piece, covering the verso, like paper backing does. I've talked to a couple people who said when the gel process is complete, you almost cant tell that anything has been done.

Starling/Brian had his pressbook cover gel backed and was very happy with those results, too.

[archstanton]

Thanks for all the feedback.  It sounds like I'll have to send one in to get gelled and see for myself.  I'll likely go with Mario since I've used him a few times in the past for linen-backing and was extremely pleased, but I'm sure PM is fantastic, too, from what I've read on the forums.  I'm a loyal customer.

Does anyone have any pictures of personal examples that they've had gel mounted?

[Neo]

The two I mentioned above.

The Hustler 30x40



Scarface 40x60

[Ari]

The poster, (the other Randy, long gone) posted in the thread I linked to, you couldn't see really anything except it looked like a new poster.

[archstanton]

The two I mentioned above.

The Hustler 30x40



Scarface 40x60

[URL=http://s766.photobucket.com/user/NeoLoco80/media/Posters/DSC08616_zps9009490b.jpg.html]

Those look fantastic.  Were either in rough shape before being restored?

In terms of longevity, is the gel backing process supposed to be durable and long lasting in comparison to paperbacking?  Is it affected any less or more by heat, moisture, etc. than traditional methods?  Is it correct that they can be stored rolled without any problems of it being difficult to flatten back out?

Sorry if I'm asking too much, just hungry for knowledge.

[Mirosae]

Brandon, what a great set. That Hustler Paul Newman is to die for oh...

[Neo]

Those look fantastic.  Were either in rough shape before being restored?

In terms of longevity, is the gel backing process supposed to be durable and long lasting in comparison to paperbacking?  Is it affected any less or more by heat, moisture, etc. than traditional methods?  Is it correct that they can be stored rolled without any problems of it being difficult to flatten back out?

Sorry if I'm asking too much, just hungry for knowledge.

Thanks, R and AS.  

They weren't really rough pre-restoration, but they had issues.  

The Hustler was severely crinkled, and flattened out perfectly, almost like new.  It also had a lot of foxing, which was not bleached out, as that would have washed out all the colors.  The after look is just a uniform, dark tint of the white areas, and the rest has the original  colors, and all.  There was some writing over the text on the side, and the original text was restored almost perfectly.

Scarface had several stains and pinholes.  The post-mounting results are: it's not quite flat as The Hustler (and there are some waves in a few places), the texture of the back side is fairly rough (they sanded the back after removing it from the mount, a stark contrast to the back of the 30x40 done by PM that has almost the same texture post-resto.), the pinholes were filled in, but there was no attempt to recreate the letters and numbers that were damaged by the pinholes.  It also took about 3 months, vs. about 2 weeks at PM.

So yeah, different folks, different work.

Regarding the other questions: paper and gel backing are good methods for longevity.  They can be rolled after being gel-mounted.  I'm sure that an expert like John or Mario would be glad to chat with you about any questions you have.  In this article, there is a lot of good info.  

http://www.postermountain.com/conservation.html

[archstanton]

Yes, I'm considering using PM since John developed the technique in the first place.  It's just hard for me to switch to a different resto shop when I've been so happy with Mario's work in the past. 

[erik1925]

Yes, I'm considering using PM since John developed the technique in the first place.  It's just hard for me to switch to a different resto shop when I've been so happy with Mario's work in the past.  

Another thing to consider (if you are) is cost. I would get a quote from both, if you are thinking along these lines, too. I'm guessing that PM would be more expensive than Lumiere. And, as Mario was trained by some of the best in other areas of restoration, I'm sure he learned and got the gel backing method "down pat" before he ever started offering it to any client.

[archstanton]

Another thing to consider (if you are) is cost. I would get a quote from both, if you are thinking along these lines, too. I'm guessing that PM would be more expensive than Lumiere. And, as Mario was trained by some of the best in other areas of restoration, I'm sure he learned and got the gel backing method "down pat" before he ever started offering it to any client.

Good point.  I'm sure Mario is past the learning stage.

Yes, price is a concern as well, and Lumiere have always had great prices.  I'll get a quote from both just to see what they say.  I asked Bruce at emovie once who he uses and he recommended Lumiere, saying he's never seen such high quality work at such reasonable prices.  That's how I ended up with Lumiere in the first place. 

[erik1925]

Good point.  I'm sure Mario is past the learning stage.

Yes, price is a concern as well, and Lumiere have always had great prices.  I'll get a quote from both just to see what they say.  I asked Bruce at emovie once who he uses and he recommended Lumiere, saying he's never seen such high quality work at such reasonable prices.  That's how I ended up with Lumiere in the first place. 

I'm sure he's always refining his techniques, but does it on "throw away items" of his own, that he has laying around for that purpose. 

[Charlie]

Guys this idea of gel mounting is nothing but re-sizing the poster by adhering it to a temporary surface with the sturgeon glue vs. wheat/wallpaper paste.  The woven polyester support acts like masa and a hard surface stretched linen.  Except the woven poly doesn't stick to anything and can simply be pulled right off both the formica top and back of poster.  The woven poly is nothing new.  Conservators have used it for ages when glass blocking tissue mends.  No expertise needed except using the right glue. 

 

[CSM]

Guys this idea of gel mounting is nothing but re-sizing the poster by adhering it to a temporary surface with the sturgeon glue vs. wheat/wallpaper paste.  The woven polyester support acts like masa and a hard surface stretched linen.  Except the woven poly doesn't stick to anything and can simply be pulled right off both the formica top and back of poster.  The woven poly is nothing new.  Conservators have used it for ages when glass blocking tissue mends.  No expertise needed except using the right glue. 

 

I thought you were banished?   

[Charlie]

I thought you were banished?   

 

[erik1925]

The two I mentioned above.

The Hustler 30x40



Scarface 40x60

Way nice, Brandon.   

[erik1925]

The more I've read and looked into this process, the more I would be tempted to try it, since, once all is said and done, the poster is not backed with any added, substrate layer, like masa-linen or paper backing.

The gel sizing is removed after (any) restoration or touch ups are done, and one can see/feel the back of the poster (or insert, WC etc), just like it was, prior to being worked on