Any thoughts on gel mounting?

[Neo]

The more I've read and looked into this process, the more I would be tempted to try it, since, once all is said and done, the poster is not backed with any added, substrate layer, like masa-linen or paper backing.

The gel sizing is removed after (any) restoration or touch ups are done, and one can see/feel the back of the poster (or insert, WC etc), just like it was, prior to being worked on    

In my experience, the attention to detail, as well as the gel resizing procedure of Poster Mountain, are much better than Lumiere's aka Mario Cueva's.  

The backside of the 40x60 that Lumiere did is not close to the same as it was pre-restoration.  Mario explained the process he uses, that is, he mounts the poster, then sands the back of it to remove all the residue.  On my 40x60 (that I sold recently), it's fairly rough texture, and the poster is not completely even in thickness, as some areas were sanded more/less than others.  

The 30x40 that PM did does not have that roughness on the backside.  It's difficult to describe the texture.  It's kinda like it has a very thin, even coating that makes the poster much more rigid and flat.  Overall, it's much closer to the original, pre-restoration state of the poster.


Although this is not part of the topic here, frankly speaking, the customer service was also much better with PM.  

[erik1925]

All good to know and learn Brandon. Thanks again for explaining how each felt, after being worked on bu both studios.

(And yes, Mario can oftentimes fall a bit silent or lax in the (email) response dept. He needs to pick up his customer service game there a bit). 

[archstanton]

FWIW I decided to go ahead and have Mario gelback my "The Searchers" insert.  It was folded and had some staple holes, edge wear etc.  It turned out awesome.  In my experience the poster came back feeling almost exactly the same as it did before -- I do not detect any remainder of the gel material.  It was pretty cool to get the poster back and have no backing, it just looks and feels like a poster! 

He shipped it back to me flat stating that I am free to roll it, but the folds that have been flattened out will hold up better over time if you don't repeatedly roll and unroll it.  Very happy with the way it turned out.

[erik1925]

Would love to see how it turned out, archstanton. And its always good to read when a poster goes to the right home/collector, too. 

Do you have a before and after pic, by chance?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Mario does excellent work. I had a Searchers hs backed by him before I auctioned it & it came out very nicely

[archstanton]

Yeah I'll try to get a picture of it later; it's stored away right now.  I've been meaning to get it framed but not sure if I want to do the same ol' HPF frames I always use or matte it and get it in a frame more befitting a western (some weather wood look or something). 

[erik1925]

Mario does excellent work. I had a Searchers hs backed by him before I auctioned it & it came out very nicely

Yessir!!   

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,6397.0.html

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Yessir!!   

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,6397.0.html

the proof was in the pudding.. good thing the pudding was not used for the backing..........

[erik1925]

the proof was in the pudding.. good thing the pudding was not used for the backing..........

Unless it had been vanilla.

No worry about chocolate stains, then.

[Charlie]

The more I've read and looked into this process, the more I would be tempted to try it, since, once all is said and done, the poster is not backed with any added, substrate layer, like masa-linen or paper backing.

The gel sizing is removed after (any) restoration or touch ups are done, and one can see/feel the back of the poster (or insert, WC etc), just like it was, prior to being worked on    

Not true.  The gel stays on/in the poster- but is invisible.  Same with starch backing.  It's like ironing a shirt - the rigidity comes from the gel/starch left on/in the poster.

[erik1925]

Not true.  The gel stays on/in the poster- but is invisible.  Same with starch backing.  It's like ironing a shirt - the rigidity comes from the gel/starch left on/in the poster.

Ah.. thanks.

So it's almost like the gelatin backing re-sizes the paper to give it that added support.

 

[Charlie]

Ah.. thanks.

So it's almost like the gelatin backing re-sizes the paper to give it that added support.

 

Exactly!

[Charlie]

Here is a resource on sizing/resizing paper:  http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/sg/bpg/pcc/17_sizing-resizing.pdf

Don't nerd out on it too much.   

[erik1925]

I scanned parts of this pdf, so didn't get too 'into it.'   
 
But this small part was interesting:

[Neo]

The gel stays on/in the poster- but is invisible.  Same with starch backing.  It's like ironing a shirt - the rigidity comes from the gel/starch left on/in the poster.

Right.  Some say the restored piece is "impregnated" with the gel.  Seems like a great preservation technique. 

I scanned parts of this pdf, so didn't get too 'into it.'   
 
But this small part was interesting:

Cool to see more of the science and history of this. 

[erik1925]

Right.  Some say the restored piece is "impregnated" with the gel.  Seems like a great preservation technique. 


Cool to see more of the science and history of this. 

It sure does.   

[Ari]

can it be done with agar agar?

[Charlie]

can it be done with agar agar?

A gar?  I don't see why not...  fish glue

[Ari]

close

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar

"Agar is a jelly-like substance, obtained from algae. It was discovered in the late 1650s or early 1660s by Mino Tarōzaemon (美濃 太郎左衛門) in Japan, where it is called kanten."

[Mirosae]

To me the main advantage is that this Resto is more truthful to the nature of the poster.  A poster is paper so it is good having that "paper look and feel" that somehow is lost with LB. No disrespect intended to any LB posters! 

[archstanton]

To me the main advantage is that this Resto is more truthful to the nature of the poster.  A poster is paper so it is good having that "paper look and feel" that somehow is lost with LB. No disrespect intended to any LB posters! 

I totally agree.  And of course with gel backing comes the fact that you have to handle them the same way as an unrestored poster -- no linen buffer or anything to protect them.

That being said I do like the "textured" look that linen backing gives to certain posters.  Had a Blade Runner one sheet backed, and it almost looked like a painting on canvas when I got it back from Mario -- really cool.

[Mirosae]

I totally agree.  And of course with gel backing comes the fact that you have to handle them the same way as an unrestored poster -- no linen buffer or anything to protect them.

That being said I do like the "textured" look that linen backing gives to certain posters.  Had a Blade Runner one sheet backed, and it almost looked like a painting on canvas when I got it back from Mario -- really cool.

Wonderful poster. Congratulations. I have LB posters too. And love them!

[erik1925]

I totally agree.  And of course with gel backing comes the fact that you have to handle them the same way as an unrestored poster -- no linen buffer or anything to protect them.

That being said I do like the "textured" look that linen backing gives to certain posters.  Had a Blade Runner one sheet backed, and it almost looked like a painting on canvas when I got it back from Mario -- really cool.

Mario does very good work. And he is nice to deal with, too.

[erik1925]

In my experience, the attention to detail, as well as the gel resizing procedure of Poster Mountain, are much better than Lumiere's aka Mario Cueva's.  

The backside of the 40x60 that Lumiere did is not close to the same as it was pre-restoration.  Mario explained the process he uses, that is, he mounts the poster, then sands the back of it to remove all the residue.  On my 40x60 (that I sold recently), it's fairly rough texture, and the poster is not completely even in thickness, as some areas were sanded more/less than others.  

The 30x40 that PM did does not have that roughness on the backside.  It's difficult to describe the texture.  It's kinda like it has a very thin, even coating that makes the poster much more rigid and flat.  Overall, it's much closer to the original, pre-restoration state of the poster.


Although this is not part of the topic here, frankly speaking, the customer service was also much better with PM.  

I was in communication with another collector (who's not an APF member) and we were discussing gel backing a bit. He said he was not a fan, especially of Mario's technique, as he said the finished item (it was a half sheet) felt like sand paper on the back. It had that same texture, to him.

So it's almost like 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Gel backing allows one to see the back of a poster/HS/LC/insert, but may produce this rougher feel, and linen or paper backing covers the back side entirely, covering over any stamps, writing or other, that someone may want to see or preserve.

3rd option, is to leave it alone (unless it is in dire shape and needs that conservation/preservation touch to keep it alive and well).

[Neo]

I was in communication with another collector (who's not an APF member) and we were discussing gel backing a bit. He said he was not a fan, especially of Mario's technique, as he said the finished item (it was a half sheet) felt like sand paper on the back. It had that same texture, to him.

So it's almost like 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Gel backing allows one to see the back of a poster/HS/LC/insert, but may produce this rougher feel, and linen or paper backing covers the back side entirely, covering over any stamps, writing or other, that someone may want to see or preserve.

3rd option, is to leave it alone (unless it is in dire shape and needs that conservation/preservation touch to keep it alive and well).

Yeah, "sandpaper" is a good way to describe the finished product from Lumiere.  It's just the method that Lumiere uses that causes that.  The 30x40 that Poster Mountain gel backed is not even close to that texture.

I'm not sure what the difference is between PM's and Lumiere's method, but as you can see on the backside of this 30x40 that PM did, it is still the same look as it was before (other than the white edges and lower area, that were reinforced with paper-backing).