Woodstock posters on Ebay

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Ebay is currently "flooded" with Woodstock posters.  A seller (123-liquidation) told me that "a projectionist died in Nashville, he had a roll of the things, his friend was a poster collector & he traded a bunch of them last winter to every poster dealer on eBay - if he saw a poster he liked, he would just trade 'Woodstocks' for them."  

Other sellers (including some less reputable ones) are saying the same thing, so the story has some "truthiness" and the union logo looks good.

Anyway, I picked up one for $60.  If anybody has any info on this, please post.  Here are the seller's pics:

[kovacs01]

There have been a few threads on this...........some say that it is a bootleg, that no such poster existed.  others say that they are authentic.  personally, I have no idea.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

There have been a few threads on this...........some say that it is a bootleg, that no such poster existed.  others say that they are authentic.  personally, I have no idea.

Here's the thread on MPF.  Bruce saw one of these and believes they are fake or some kind of studio reprint and they appear to be "fuzzy."  

I'll probably just go ahead and buy it and inspect it.  The union logo looks pretty clear from the seller's photo.  If it is in fact fuzzy and a digital repro, I'll return it.

[stewart boyle]

I was having a look on the official Woodstock site and the only version they have on this is the Johannesburg edition,, the only difference i can see and it maybe just the photo,but the white background appears to be alot duller than the official one they have online... my two cents worth.
I also have doubts about the projectionist background story, yes, back then projectionists used to change the posters on a Thursday night but in no way did cinemas receive 100`s of these now or back then. Imagine the numbers involved of sending out 100 odd posters at a time to any cinema of the era,there was simply no need on either side.
The poster you have posted looks to be trimmed on both sides,,the Quotation marks on either side of the title should have a bigger margin.
Take a gamble Mel if you like too,but dont pay over the odds if you can avoid doing so.
(sorry Mel i just noticed you had already bought)
Stew

[Harry Caul]

A previously unknown poster starts showing up in the 1,000s... it is rolled but from the 1970s... and they all supposedly originate from a single projectionist in TN.  I've been seduced by this story before, but I ultimately passed.  I think I made the right choice.

[supraman079]

I've been seduced by this story before, but I ultimately passed.  I think I made the right choice.

I think you made the right choice as well.

Chad

[Bruce]

The bottom line is it doesn't even matter if somehow they WERE authentic (but I DID look at one in person and they don't pass the "smell" test, meaning that something stinks about them).

If they were real, then the huge supply would guarantee they will sell for far less for 20 or 30 years.

Bottom line: wait until 2035 or so and then pick one up from whomever runs http://www.eMoviePoster.com then for around $20!

Bruce

[stewart boyle]

For info only.
Johannesburg Edition.



slight difference in the guitar too.(maybe irrelevant)
Stew

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Here's what the seller is telling me:

"Hey - Dave Lieberman over at 'cinemasterpieces' is selling these. I sold about 3-4 and everyone raved on feedback. Its the paper that sells it for me - 100% vintage. I took a little look on the logo, its cleveland,ohio, LPIU local 412 something or another. Its clear but very small, you need a mag-glass. Believe me, I have owned THOUSANDS of one sheets, I have seen all out there - its a nice sheet. I'd keep it, but things are slow as far as $$, so its all yours! I really think you'll like it. Anyone who says 'Very Dubious' has never seen an old roll of NSS posters. I was at a ski resort years ago and bought a 50-count roll of 1975 'Lucky Lady' of all things. I know unfolded 1970's prints are a little weird but they DO show up every now & then. Its no knockoff, I am SURE of that. I'll get it right to you - let me know what YOU think. I weighed it, measured it, mag-glassed it - it passes all tests, don't know what else to say! :-)"

And sure enough Dave is selling it for $495 here.

"We have been informed that this is most likely a "studio" issued one sheet or a special local wilding one sheet.  Until recently, this version had not been known to the poster collecting community. Not NSS issued. Whatever it is exactly, we are certain it is from the time period from when the film was released."

So for $60 I'll take a chance.  As long as it's not a digital repro, I'll probably keep it, whatever the hell it is.

[archie leach]

Here's what the seller is telling me:

"Hey - Dave Lieberman over at 'cinemasterpieces' is selling these. I sold about 3-4 and everyone raved on feedback. Its the paper that sells it for me - 100% vintage. I took a little look on the logo, its cleveland,ohio, LPIU local 412 something or another. Its clear but very small, you need a mag-glass. Believe me, I have owned THOUSANDS of one sheets, I have seen all out there - its a nice sheet. I'd keep it, but things are slow as far as $$, so its all yours! I really think you'll like it. Anyone who says 'Very Dubious' has never seen an old roll of NSS posters. I was at a ski resort years ago and bought a 50-count roll of 1975 'Lucky Lady' of all things. I know unfolded 1970's prints are a little weird but they DO show up every now & then. Its no knockoff, I am SURE of that. I'll get it right to you - let me know what YOU think. I weighed it, measured it, mag-glassed it - it passes all tests, don't know what else to say! :-)"

And sure enough Dave is selling it for $495 here.

"We have been informed that this is most likely a "studio" issued one sheet or a special local wilding one sheet.  Until recently, this version had not been known to the poster collecting community. Not NSS issued. Whatever it is exactly, we are certain it is from the time period from when the film was released."

So for $60 I'll take a chance.  As long as it's not a digital repro, I'll probably keep it, whatever the hell it is.

I think using Dave as a standard for anything questionable is 'Very Dubious', as would most who know his history.

If it was a 'studio issue' or wilding poster, then what would a projectionist in Tenn be doing with a large roll?

Anyone see a black & white Mean Streets recently?

[Zorba]

I think using Dave as a standard for anything questionable is 'Very Dubious', as would most who know his history.

What history?...

Sometimes, I must admit, you guys creep me out and I just wonder what the fuck? Whats real? Whats fake? Whats anything?

Then I go buy more stuff 

[CSM]

Zorba, you must educate yourself   Although it is going to take a LONG time to read through the NS4 and MOPO archives.

This is not an attack against Dave as I have nothing personally against him (I've even bought some nice daybills off him).  I am just referring to the fact that just about every regular dealer or collector has a "history" on the poster forums - for good or bad, true or untrue...

[brude]

Right. Sometimes it is just a matter of perception, eh?
One must be careful casting aspersions.
Boiiiinnnnnggg! 

[archie leach]

Right. Sometimes it is just a matter of perception, eh?
One must be careful casting aspersions.
Boiiiinnnnnggg! 

In the face of questionable material, Dave has, time and time again, stood on very shaky ethical ground.  Non-questionable material is another matter.  He's not one of the bad guys, but his used-car salesman hucksterism gets the better of him at times, particularly, at these times.  The idea that another dealer would use him to bolster his case for authenticity of newly discovered, highly questionable material is an unfunny joke.  I have to think that most anyone who has known Dave since the days of MPT would agree.

[Zorba]

Zorba, you must educate yourself   Although it is going to take a LONG time to read through the NS4 and MOPO archives.

This is not an attack against Dave as I have nothing personally against him (I've even bought some nice daybills off him).  I am just referring to the fact that just about every regular dealer or collector has a "history" on the poster forums - for good or bad, true or untrue...

Im trying. Ive read much over the last year. I cant believe how much stuff there is to go through. This stuff is never ending.

Its not about Dave(I just think of him as the higher priced guy not the scammer like some of the notorious ebay guys.) I have bought from other "highly touted/respected" dealers only to get posters that Im pretty sure are not the real deal. Its hard to figure out who or what to believe. There are many personality conflicts in posters. 

Some of it is educational, some of it is entertaining and some of it is frustrating...

[CSM]

There are many personality conflicts in posters. 

Some of it is educational, some of it is entertaining and some of it is frustrating...

I don't think I could have put it better myself!

[Dr Hackenbush]

In life, people will disagree on almost everything: price, grading, packaging, so you have to make up your own mind as to who you would/wouldn't buy from as a dealer or collector.  There are comic dealers & collectors that I despise because they represent everything bad about comic collecting, but I know people that hold some of them in high regard.  And there are dealers & collectors that I trust and would buy from without hesitation, but are reviled by others in the hobby.    

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Its hard to figure out who or what to believe.

Zorba, don't worry.  Lots of forum members here who will never hesitate to assure you that "sinister forces are at work" in the poster business.

[Cj]

123-liquidation is not a trust worthy seller. I bought a few things from him and bottom line I had to fight for my money back.

[ddilts399]

I had one in hand for an overseas friend and it "felt" right as to the paper, although I will admit I did not submit it to the sniffer test. Looked good to me, if it was faked someone spent some dough getting their hands on some aged paper. Granted it would not be the first time, but this would not be the title on the top of my list for the investment.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

I did receive it and my best guess is that it's the real deal.  It's 27 1/8 x 41 and the tiny union logo lettering is super-sharp.  However, the credit lettering is erratic in places but my guess is that's the font they were using - maybe the "Comic Sans" font or something similar.  It's on very thin waxy paper that I've not seen before. 

[Bruce]

I assume the "waxiness" you are referring to is a higher amount of gloss. That is the trademark of the bogus inserts and lobby cards. The paper poster printers used in the 1970s was slightly glossy on the front, and not at all glossy on the back. The paper most poster printers used in the 1990s on is slightly glossy on the back, and much more glossy on the front. Since the minty white inserts are also on this sort of paper, I think it incredibly likely they were created in the 1990s or later.

I can differentiate most fakes from real posters and lobby cards in total darkness! I just feel both sides of the item and it becomes obvious. Oh wait... once all cards are slabbed, then the "feel" test will go out the window!

Bruce

[CSM]

I can differentiate most fakes from real posters and lobby cards in total darkness! I just feel both sides of the item and it becomes obvious. Oh wait... once all cards are slabbed, then the "feel" test will go out the window!

Bruce

You got that right Bruce.  Unless one wants to ruin the "entombment" and void the grading of course...

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

I assume the "waxiness" you are referring to is a higher amount of gloss. That is the trademark of the bogus inserts and lobby cards. The paper poster printers used in the 1970s was slightly glossy on the front, and not at all glossy on the back. The paper most poster printers used in the 1990s on is slightly glossy on the back, and much more glossy on the front. Since the minty white inserts are also on this sort of paper, I think it incredibly likely they were created in the 1990s or later.

I can differentiate most fakes from real posters and lobby cards in total darkness! I just feel both sides of the item and it becomes obvious. Oh wait... once all cards are slabbed, then the "feel" test will go out the window!

Bruce

Bruce, who are "they" and how were "they" able to replicate the LPIU logo - which ceased existence in the early 1970s - so perfectly?  It seems like a lot of trouble for not much profit.  Here are pics from the Woodstock poster I received:

[kovacs01]

Bruce, who are "they" and how were "they" able to replicate the LPIU logo - which ceased existence in the early 1970s - so perfectly?  It seems like a lot of trouble for not much profit.  Here are pics from the Woodstock poster I receive

Bruce never mentions a "they" in his post that would refer to a person.  The only "they" he mentions refers to the posters themselves.  But if you want to know who most people perpetrated the minty whites, that would be a couple of guys.  Check ebay for poster sellers from Claremore, OK and Rochester, NY if you want to know specifically.  As far as how they got logos, presumably, they had some original plates for some vintage poster giving them access to lots of the needed logos, etc.  But I am sure there are folks around here that know more than I do.