Your thoughts on OUTING Ebay auctions

[MoviePosterBid.com]

as I said Harry.. I would love to see how some such issue lined up.. this discussion spoils the ability to get a potentially honest poll, but it is an interesting question.
that's all it was..

maybe we can ask these people
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yRZZpk_9k8E" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/yRZZpk_9k8E</a>

[wonka]

Is there an ignore function on this forum? Seem to remember reading about this years ago, but forget what the deal was on that...

[jedgerley]

Is there an ignore function on this forum? Seem to remember reading about this years ago, but forget what the deal was on that...

In the past there was an option that allowed pms to be blocked but not members posts.

[jedgerley]

I'm as liberal as can be and I'm totally against outing auctions.

Ditto except for posters valued over 5k for me.

[erik1925]

In the past there was an option that allowed pms to be blocked but not members posts.

This option is still available to all members.. the blocking of receiving PM's, that is.

Click your profile and on the left side, under Modify Profile, is a "Personal Message Options" one can click on. There you can add member names to an Ignore List, from those you don't want to get PMs from.   

[Neo]

nope.. but as I said, I'm only interested in the question as a scientific or intellectual issue, much the same as any issue regarding anything and how it lines up on a graph.
it's just a curiosity. but bottom line, if we look at the lines drawn here there is a variance of a conservative though (keep it secret) vs a liberal though (tell everyone, make it equal) and I'm sure you understand the interest in "mining data" so to speak.

[kovacs01]

but it is an interesting question.

No it isn't.

[paul waines]

Ditto except for posters valued over 5k for me.

Ditto, but 10k for me


I find it unreal this has turned political, when it's just a case of common sense, or even just good etiquette..

[Harry Caul]

My thoughts on this issue have not changed since originally writing this (which itself is a summary of even earlier discussions on the topic).  I'm bumping it for the new folks...

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Brian.  If you look back through the mid-auction thread you'll see several bouts of this discussion over the last few years (and what I'm writing below has no doubt be better articulated by me in the past on multiple occasions).  Clearly, many of us have already gotten our $0.02 in and everyone should have that option.  However, I think this discussion may have veered off course...

As far as I know, NO ONE is advocating the limitation of discussion and/or the sharing of posters.  That's what makes this place great.  Sometimes we talk about our own acquisitions (monthly acquisitions thread), sometimes we discuss beautiful posters we might never be able to afford (strikes your fancy thread), sometimes we discuss genres (Bond, Hammer, etc...), sometimes we discuss authentication (mid-auction and authentication threads), and sometimes we talk about the crazy results achieved by certain posters -- whether high or low (post-auction thread).  All of that discussion will and should of course continue.  

What we are talking about here is only a tiny fraction of what is discussed at APF.  For me it boils down to the pros and cons of outing auctions before they finish -- that emphasis is key to the whole thread.

Pro: Helps collectors -- I see this one as the most cited reason.  If you think you are helping someone specific, remember there are probably 10+ visitors for every member you interact with here.  So if you think you are talking to 20-30 people, you are really talking to 200-300+.  When I started here, I envisioned my posting as akin to quietly sharing stock tips at a dinner party.  However, I quickly realized it's more like sending out a PA at Disneyland!
Pro: Doesn't increase prices -- Yes, there is no proof that outing an auction will increase prices, but that is a two way street.  I might impact prices every single time it happens and there would also be no proof.  No data != proof.
Pro: More discussion -- Sure, but there is absolutely no reason it couldn't happen after auction.  When this thread was started, even Mel suggested that super high profile auctions -- think Casablanca 6-sheet at Heritage or that Theda Bara Salome coming up at eMovie -- can be fun to discuss ahead of time and that discussion will likely not impact final prices.  The mid-auction thread is also useful (IMO) to raise flags for fellow buyers for suspected bootleg posters or authenticity issues.  It's also fun to laugh at some sellers who have ridiculous buy-it-now prices.

Con: Increases prices -- Sure, there will never be proof that this happens, but there is certainly no proof that it won't either.  
Con: Increases competition -- Or the "monkey see, monkey do" effect.  If you hang around here long enough you will certainly notice that buying habits are impacted by what is posted (i.e. Anything Gosling, Japanese B1s, Under Her Skin, etc...).  It's only natural when you see new cool posters (even those outside your collecting interest) for some to expand into those spaces and increase the competition.  
Con: No one posts what they are personally bidding on -- Not even Mel, who is beloved by so many.  Mel and I had many discussions about his arbitrary outings in the past -- once they passed *his* price threshold, he thought they were fair game to post.  Or if they weren't of interest to *him* personally, he thought they were ok to post.  How can one person assume their wants/needs apply to everyone?  That is is just being naive at best, reckless or spiteful it worst.

Even the *potential* for making my fellow collectors pay more or to increase their competition are reasons enough for me to NEVER out an ongoing auction.  I stick to PMs and emails if my goal is to help fellow collectors.  Sure, the mid-auction thread can be used carefully without hurting anyone -- and in the case of authentication issues, possibly helping people -- but there are other threads more appropriate for all three of the examples I posted.  

This thread poll shows a nearly 50/50 split, and the discussion proves it's a very polarizing issue at that.  If we could summarize this discussion concisely and put it at the front of the thread so people could at least weigh these issues before deciding to either post or wait until it's over to post (see, no limiting discussions!), great.  I'd be all in favor of that as a reasonable compromise.  However, if that is too complicated or T/H don't want to start down the slippery slope of codifying "rules" -- then I say lock it, which is how I voted.  

All I know for sure, is there is no "Pro" on that list above that would compel me to post *before* an auction is finished.  It can wait, 100% of the time.  

[Simes]

A well thought out and written piece.

However, if one were to take this to its absolute and natural conclusion, then (pedantically);

1. No one other than a dealer can OUT either specific item auctions or auction events.  A non-dealer cannot announce, advertise, hint at or inform of events, just in case they contain something of interest to a forum member.

2. All forum members would then have to subscribe to a two-tier status of dealer or non dealer, and advertise themselves as such.

3.  All newcomers would have to be thoroughly tranied in this Animal Farm mentality of 'Everyone shares, but some people can share more than others.'

There just seems to be no half way house that could ever cover everyone's needs as the above would be completely unworkable.

[Harry Caul]

My intention is not for people to take this to the "absolute and natural conclusion" you described.   My only hope is that people are considerate of their fellow collectors and to use good judgement when discussing something that is still in process of being sold -- which is what I tried to articulate. 

[monocle]

But with respect, how would you have researched tediously, or tirelessly, without the help of people on the internet and perhaps specifically on forums such as this one?

Well to be fair this forum has been very useful regarding the subject of poster restoration and that has certainly helped me narrow down my search. But that is not a matter of competition or fluctuating prices. As far as searching for posters - well no. I don't collect film posters so ultimately the outing debate here interests me in principle but not in practice. My last hunt involved knowledge of the old countries of the Austro-Hungarian empire, a bit of translation and a good dollop of luck!

[CSM]

Can we get a "poster dealer" vs. "poster collector" poll on this issue already?

Now that would be the true scientific or intellectual data we need

[Charlie]

...Once more next year

My thoughts on this issue have not changed since originally writing this (which itself is a summary of even earlier discussions on the topic).  I'm bumping it for the new folks...

...Twice a year for five years

My thoughts on this issue have not changed since originally writing this (which itself is a summary of even earlier discussions on the topic).  I'm bumping it for the new folks...

Done?

Nope... Queue the stupid auction item for outing purposes.

Queue Richie...

Queue newbie posting an auction because he wants to be helpful...

I fear we won't get out of this argument alive. 

[Harry Caul]

A well thought out and written piece.

However, if one were to take this to its absolute and natural conclusion, then (pedantically);

1. No one other than a dealer can OUT either specific item auctions or auction events.  A non-dealer cannot announce, advertise, hint at or inform of events, just in case they contain something of interest to a forum member.

2. All forum members would then have to subscribe to a two-tier status of dealer or non dealer, and advertise themselves as such.

3.  All newcomers would have to be thoroughly tranied in this Animal Farm mentality of 'Everyone shares, but some people can share more than others.'

There just seems to be no half way house that could ever cover everyone's needs as the above would be completely unworkable.

By the way Simes, wouldn't we also have to take your position to the "absolute and natural conclusion" as well?  Every collector everywhere would be REQUIRED to share every poster they find, regardless of their interest in it, the price, the country it was found in, the site it was found on, etc....  Sounds pretty silly and unenforceable, doesn't it?   

[Harry Caul]

Queue newbie posting an auction because he wants to be helpful...

By the way, I in no way mean to demonize newbies who post in this thread.  I outed a few auctions in my early days as well -- always with the intention of being helpful or adding to the discussion.  It was only after I hung around a while and realized that it had the potential to hurt my fellow collectors as much it might help them, that I instead switched to PMs and emails.  We all go through our own personal learning curves here...

With that, welcome newbies!   

[wonka]

Can we get a "poster dealer" vs. "poster collector" poll on this issue already?

Now that would be the true scientific or intellectual data we need

Was going to post something akin to this.

In a thread (Mid-Auction) started by one dealer and championed by another, data compiled from folks who's primary income that perhaps could be helped in any degree by a twist on marketing vs. folks trying to get more for less may lead to a better 'science'.

[Starling]

I'm of two minds about this.  I understand not posting individual items for sale, but I found it extremely helpful when Mel posted all the different places on the internet where you could search for posters, or about an upcoming auction at a major auction house.  I found some incredible items this way, and feel this was very useful for someone just starting out in the hobby.  I wouldn't post any individual item I found on these sites, because I understand when I am actually interested in the item, I don't go about posting it to forums, so I would expect the same from myself when other people might be interested in something I am not.  But telling people about AuctionZip or Collectors Weekly, seems to me, to be important and valuable resource we should share with people just starting out.  Just my 2 cents. 

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Can we get a "poster dealer" vs. "poster collector" poll

go for it, but don't forget to add the 3rd choice also - Poster dealers who are also some of the biggest collectors

then do some research, how many times in the life of this forum has any dealer outed anything in the Mid-auctions thread?
do further research - how many times total by any member has something (count: 1 item) been outed

personally, I think it's a silly fear (I think all fear is silly, except the fear for your life you're being chased by a gang with guns, or the cops from Fergusen)
because the numbers are so small as to be non-existent

I've been collecting for right at 50 years and in all that time, I have certainly lost items that I would have liked to have, but so what.. in almost every case - except art - there is another. Few of you collect items that are one of a kind (Marklawd noted) and few of you collect material from the time period where the material is specifically rare and potentially one of a kind (pre 1930-something), so as you drill down through the information, it means you're all hoping to find a Star Wars Birthday poster listed in the wrong ebay category, incorrectly titled in such a way that because you're looking through Beanie Babies and some dummy forgot to change his template from Beanie Baby to Entertainment Memorabilia. Not that it doesn't happen, but again, it's such a rare situation as to be mostly non-existent.

[CSM]

go for it, but don't forget to add the 3rd choice also - Poster dealers who are also some of the biggest collectors

then do some research, how many times in the life of this forum has any dealer outed anything in the Mid-auctions thread?
do further research - how many times total by any member has something (count: 1 item) been outed

personally, I think it's a silly fear (I think all fear is silly, except the fear for your life you're being chased by a gang with guns, or the cops from Fergusen)
because the numbers are so small as to be non-existent

I've been collecting for right at 50 years and in all that time, I have certainly lost items that I would have liked to have, but so what.. in almost every case - except art - there is another. Few of you collect items that are one of a kind (Marklawd noted) and few of you collect material from the time period where the material is specifically rare and potentially one of a kind (pre 1930-something), so as you drill down through the information, it means you're all hoping to find a Star Wars Birthday poster listed in the wrong ebay category, incorrectly titled in such a way that because you're looking through Beanie Babies and some dummy forgot to change his template from Beanie Baby to Entertainment Memorabilia. Not that it doesn't happen, but again, it's such a rare situation as to be mostly non-existent.

My poll, my parameters

[Charlie]

Queue Richie...

Just call me "Posteradamus"...

[MoviePosterBid.com]

yeah Charlie.. you could see the future.. you're psychiatric

 

[jedgerley]

I love this forum

[stewart boyle]

I think that's the highest number of voters,in any poll I've seen here. 

[Simes]

By the way Simes, wouldn't we also have to take your position to the "absolute and natural conclusion" as well?  Every collector everywhere would be REQUIRED to share every poster they find, regardless of their interest in it, the price, the country it was found in, the site it was found on, etc....  Sounds pretty silly and unenforceable, doesn't it?   

Hence why I summarised by saying, "There just seems to be no half way house that could ever cover everyone's needs, as the above would be completely unworkable."

I agree.

My point was to highlight how ludicrous this argument is.