Mid-auction analysis - OMGs!, LOLs!, WTFs!, whatev....

[crowzilla]

OK, I don't get it
Why does this even exist, and especially why did someone pay to have it linenbacked.

It's the linenbacking part that really gets me. I understand that the idea of collecting in it's pure form isn't to make money, but looking at the results from today more than half the pieces sold didn't even sell for enough to cover the cost of backing, let alone what ever value the poster might have.

Hope that helps end the discussion of whether or not linenbacking adds value to a poster (but it won't).

[eatbrie]

Ha, I saw the word “linenbacked” and didn’t even check Bruce’s auction.  I hope there wasn’t something rare enough to warrant linenbacking, the only reason to buy something linenbacked imo.  I’ll check the results later.

T

[cabmangray]

I agree with you, eatbrie. I can understand if a poster is brittle, falling apart, damaged, or is so rare that it should be backed in order to protect and preserve it. 3-sheets and 6-sheets need to be backed, in my opinion, since trying to display them unbacked may incur damage to the poster. But why back something like a Goldfinger 1-sheet when there are enough perfectly fine unbacked examples around? Linen backing new, recent 1-sheets is just foolish and a waste of money.

[erik1925]

I agree with you, eatbrie. I can understand if a poster is brittle, falling apart, damaged, or is so rare that it should be backed in order to protect and preserve it. 3-sheets and 6-sheets need to be backed, in my opinion, since trying to display them unbacked may incur damage to the poster. But why back something like a Goldfinger 1-sheet when there are enough perfectly fine unbacked examples around? Linen backing new, recent 1-sheets is just foolish and a waste of money.

With you all the way on this, cabman. In addition I would also say that I would never linen back something just because it was rare. If a poster was rare and in good condition (and not in need of any kind of preservation, repair or conservation), I would leave it as is.

[Starling]

And yet, I bet 99% of truly valuable posters (worth more than 10k) are linenbacked.

[eatbrie]

Ha, I saw the word “linenbacked” and didn’t even check Bruce’s auction.  I hope there wasn’t something rare enough to warrant linenbacking, the only reason to buy something linenbacked imo.  I’ll check the results later.

T

Just checked Bruce's auctions.  Lots of Bardots there, but all linenbacked, so sitting out.  Why do people linenback so much?

T

[Neo]

Just checked Bruce's auctions.  Lots of Bardots there, but all linenbacked, so sitting out.  Why do people linenback so much?

T

Maybe because the average buyer is not stacking hundreds of them in flat file cabinets.

 

And I agree, some great 3 sheets, etc. 

[Filmlobbycards]

Just checked Bruce's auctions.  Lots of Bardots there, but all linenbacked, so sitting out.  Why do people linenback so much?

T

A friend of mine owns a very prestige Vintage Poster brick and mortar high end gallery...they focus on large format European posters late 1800's-1950's including some film, war, advertising & related ephemera...Everything is linenbacked by professionals who trained in museum quality workshops etc and is an exceptionally clean operation...everything is reversible btw....they sell tens of thousands of posters in over 50 countries!

I asked him about the growing anathema to linenbacked posters and the trend in movie posters to pay a premium for folded unused posters at auction...here was his response

"Movie posters are the not the standard bearer of tastes in posters...they are a relatively new animal with an evolving presence in the poster world....and its far easier to find a nice folded movie poster post 1950 than it is to find a lesser Mucha or Cappiello that is in need of restoration and preservation...Just about everything in museums that is ever shown or displayed is backed...that is the standard..large format posters pre 1920 are remarkably hard to find in any condition...To display posters that are damaged and are increasingly volatile in a gallery setting is an evolution of preservation and display (they were not printed to be a collectors item and to be kept in perfect condition 70+ years later)  ..there is no way these disintegrating works of art can be shown..people want to go through them and look at the images..they want them to be seen, felt and ultimately shipped and then hung/framed without more damage incurring...you literally cannot have hundreds of people flipping through thousands of posters, opening and closing them, every week without them getting destroyed...if a poster is in flawless unrestored unbacked condition...it was hidden away and never used, admired or displayed as art...those posters make up the bare minimum of what is available and shown to collectors outside of an internet platform..."

makes sense to me

[Monster_A_GoGo]

Nice thoughts on linenbacking---but I am sitting out today's auction as well. I have a half dozen or so linenbacked posters---and wish they weren't.

[okiehawker]

Nice thoughts on linenbacking---but I am sitting out today's auction as well. I have a half dozen or so linenbacked posters--and wish they weren't.

I totally support you all avoiding beautiful linen backed posters.  Yes, stay away so there are more for meeeeeeeeeee!!!  Okie

[crowzilla]

"Movie posters are the not the standard bearer of tastes in posters...they are a relatively new animal with an evolving presence in the poster world....and its far easier to find a nice folded movie poster post 1950 than it is to find a lesser Mucha or Cappiello that is in need of restoration and preservation...Just about everything in museums that is ever shown or displayed is backed...that is the standard..large format posters pre 1920 are remarkably hard to find in any condition...To display posters that are damaged and are increasingly volatile in a gallery setting is an evolution of preservation and display (they were not printed to be a collectors item and to be kept in perfect condition 70+ years later)  ..there is no way these disintegrating works of art can be shown..people want to go through them and look at the images..they want them to be seen, felt and ultimately shipped and then hung/framed without more damage incurring...you literally cannot have hundreds of people flipping through thousands of posters, opening and closing them, every week without them getting destroyed...if a poster is in flawless unrestored unbacked condition...it was hidden away and never used, admired or displayed as art...those posters make up the bare minimum of what is available and shown to collectors outside of an internet platform..."

Yep - that statement to me just confirms how special, rare, and precious early unrestored posters truly are, and that perhaps they should be valued at an even higher multiple than their backed counterparts.

[okiehawker]

Yep - that statement to me just confirms how special, rare, and precious early unrestored posters truly are, and that perhaps they should be valued at an even higher multiple than their backed counterparts.

Yes, don't spend money now.  Rather, save and save for those very old unrestored posters.  I'll quietly clean up those sad lovely linen backed orphans.  Okie

[erik1925]

Yep - that statement to me just confirms how special, rare, and precious early unrestored posters truly are, and that perhaps they should be valued at an even higher multiple than their backed counterparts.

Well said, Sean. Makes total sense to me, too. 

[MoviePosterBid.com]

everything is reversible btw....

I hear this from linenbackers all the time and all it does is make me shake my head

once linenbacked, it is in no comparable way, reversible. Sure you can remove a poster from it's backing, but it does not revert to it's pre-backed condition, even posters that were mint before they were backed. If a poster is removed from it's backing, it is solely for the purpose of re-backing a poster that has degraded since it was originally backed (because *newsflash* eventually, all backed posters need to be redone). But it will never be what it was and therefore, saying it is reversible is false

[erik1925]

I hear this from linenbackers all the time and all it does is make me shake my head

once linenbacked, it is in no comparable way, reversible. Sure you can remove a poster from it's backing, but it does not revert to it's pre-backed condition, even posters that were mint before they were backed. If a poster is removed from it's backing, it is solely for the purpose of re-backing a poster that has degraded since it was originally backed (because *newsflash* eventually, all backed posters need to be redone). But it will never be what it was and therefore, saying it is reversible is false

It's amazing how many people think that "reversible" and using reversible materials, means that if those materials used to back, and retouch/restore a poster are all stripped away, that the poster handed back to the owner will be the same condition poster as what was handed over to be backed originally.

[okiehawker]

Well said, Sean. Makes total sense to me, too. 

I love you guys for being purists, and I can respect that. I'm shaking my head "yes" with you--Jeff, Sean, Monster, and T-- supporting your conviction all the way, while handing my money over to get that incredible linen backed baby!  Okie

[erik1925]

I love you guys for being purists, and I can respect that. I'm shaking my head "yes" with you--Jeff, Sean, Monster, and T-- supporting your conviction all the way, while handing my money over to get that incredible linen backed baby!  Okie

Has nothing (for me) about being a purist. Ive always been of the thought that backing should be done to (any) kind of poster, when that poster is in danger of falling apart because the paper has become brittle, fragile, dried out, damaged from acids etc. For conservation and preservation purposes and not because a perfectly good condition poster has fold lines, for example.

Again, thats just my POV and always has been.

[okiehawker]

Has nothing (for me) about being a purist. Ive always been of the thought that backing should be done to (any) kind of poster, when that poster is in danger of falling apart because the paper has become brittle, fragile, dried out, damaged from acids etc. For conservation and preservation purposes and not because a perfectly good condition poster has fold lines, for example.

Again, thats just my POV and always has been.

I agree, Jeff!  I'm just so happy you took up the mantle!  Okie

[Filmlobbycards]

I hear this from linenbackers all the time and all it does is make me shake my head

once linenbacked, it is in no comparable way, reversible. Sure you can remove a poster from it's backing, but it does not revert to it's pre-backed condition, even posters that were mint before they were backed. If a poster is removed from it's backing, it is solely for the purpose of re-backing a poster that has degraded since it was originally backed (because *newsflash* eventually, all backed posters need to be redone). But it will never be what it was and therefore, saying it is reversible is false

Excellent point!

While I agree with most of this....I will say the process of restoration in general is not reversible in a technical sense...if a poster has been cleaned, sutured, re-sized, fold lines relaxed and washed to neutralize the chemical acidity of the inks...its unalterably changed...you can't really recreate those age identifiers....so in essence as soon as you attempt anything but the most minor restoration then you are altering the poster irreversibly....??

(I for one do not own a single backed poster...I sold my last linen backed one in 2015 and I only buy unbacked small format posters now like lobby cards, window cards, half sheets and inserts...)

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Excellent point!

While I agree with most of this....I will say the process of restoration in general is not reversible in a technical sense...if a poster has been cleaned, sutured, re-sized, fold lines relaxed and washed to neutralize the chemical acidity of the inks...its unalterably changed...you can't really recreate those age identifiers....so in essence as soon as you attempt anything but the most minor restoration then you are altering the poster irreversibly....??

(I for one do not own a single backed poster...I sold my last linen backed one in 2015 and I only buy unbacked small format posters now like lobby cards, window cards, half sheets and inserts...)

correct!

also, your friend that says all museums linenback posters for display.. not so, except for oversized material or damaged goods that need to be made displayable. Posters that will fit in a frame just fine with museum directors of intelligence, do not change the structure of items unless it's needed, and they don't spend money on stuff in their collections - unless someone else pays for it.

if you give your collection to an institution, they catalogue it, box it up & put it in storage. The only time it is taken down is when someone sees something on the inventory they want for display or more likely - research - and then it is boxed back up & put away again.
Unless you actually give them 5 million $ to store, conserve, and display your collection in the wing built with the trust from your 5 million.
o/w... they are the worst places for your collection to go, sadly.

so they don't spend money on linenbacking, unless YOU paid for it.

[Filmlobbycards]

Yes that is a sad truth...

To clarify ... his comment was more specific and pertaining to poster exhibitions...im sure its in regard to large format posters...

“Just about everything in museums that is ever shown or displayed is backed”

[Filmlobbycards]

Moving on....

How about those fantastic lobby cards in Part 3 of Emovieposter’s auction!!


http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/tag/xtype%253Alobby%2520card/14.html

Part 2 was kind of slow in last minute bidding wars...should be interesting to watch on Thursday since there are so many rare pieces in that group!!

[eatbrie]

I love you guys for being purists, and I can respect that. I'm shaking my head "yes" with you--Jeff, Sean, Monster, and T-- supporting your conviction all the way, while handing my money over to get that incredible linen backed baby!  Okie

So what did you buy that was so amazingly great in its linenbacked version.  I'd love to hear some titles.  What did you buy from Bruce's last auction?  It sounded like you were going to buy a lot.

T

[crowzilla]

Yes, don't spend money now.  Rather, save and save for those very old unrestored posters.  I'll quietly clean up those sad lovely linen backed orphans.  Okie

you are taking my statement out of context.
I didn't say anything about you shouldn't buy or own backed posters, just that we should have an even greater appreciation for those precious few gems that still exist unbacked (like say a 1932 Mummy 3-sheet).

[crowzilla]

...Just about everything in museums that is ever shown or displayed is backed...that is the standard..

One other mention about this museum part - most everything that is backed by a museum is paperbacked.
And in paperbacking it usually involves lightweight rice paper, not much else restoration-wise, which makes it much easier to remove from the backing if necessary.

It was dealers that started the drive for linenbacking most items as it makes for inventory that is easier to for them to take to shows, display, and ship. So when dealers talk about museums backing their posters also, it's not quite an apples to apples comparison.