Buyer's Premium.. if you know math, isn't it just another part of the process?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

okay you BP haters and BP criticizers... I have a question to pose for you

you put in a high bid of $363 on an item ($433.79 with BP)
you win the item you bid on for $230 ($274.55 with BP)

is the BP a negative or a positive i or is it a neutral issue that has no meaning here?

[Charlie]

I've actually started to rethink this.  Only those people that can get over buyers premiums have the money to get over them.  Therefore, they are not afraid to spend more money, resulting in higher auction prices...

[MoviePosterBid.com]

well Charlie, is the $230 ($274 w/bp) example shown above too much money for the average collector to spend on something?

[CSM]

I think the real question is - how many more potential bidders would there be if the auction did not have a BP?

However, if you confine the scenario to exactly what Rich wrote well then the buyer has to be happy because they accepted the BP AND got the poster for much less than their max bid.

But I am also sure this hypothetical buyer would have been even happier getting the poster for $230 and avoid lining the auctioneer's pockets with the evilness that is a BP...

[Charlie]

well Charlie, is the $230 ($274 w/bp) example shown above too much money for the average collector to spend on something?

I suppose you may be happier that you didn't have to pay more buyer's premium but you were already willing to pay the other amount so Maybe positive...

[Starling]

Of course, BPs suck, and I would much rather go through Emovie, with their lack of BP and the quality customer service.  Unfortunately, Heritage gets the A1 quality primo shit.  Thus, one must deal with BPs.  I no longer even look at the bid price, I look at the bid + BP, and if I want to only spend 400, I make damn sure that the bid + BP + sales tax (lack of sales tax at emovie, another PLUS) come to that.  In the heat of a bidding war during the HA sig auction, I've gotton out of control and didn't take all 3 factors under complete consideration, but that's my fault and part of the game.  Ah movie paper, and what we do for it  

[erik1925]

Of course, BPs suck, and I would much rather go through Emovie, with their lack of BP and the quality customer service.  Unfortunately, Heritage gets the A1 quality primo shit.  Thus, one must deal with BPs.  I no longer even look at the bid price, I look at the bid + BP, and if I want to only spend 400, I make damn sure that the bid + BP + sales tax (lack of sales tax at emovie, another PLUS) come to that.  In the heat of a bidding war during the HA sig auction, I've gotton out of control and didn't take all 3 factors under complete consideration, but that's my fault and part of the game.  Ah movie paper, and what we do for it  

 

[CSM]

So Rich is this a test for the viability of BP's on Movieposterbid.com?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

So Rich is this a test for the viability of BP's on Movieposterbid.com?

definitely not. I have no plans for BP at any time now or in the future.

just an intelligence test :-P

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Of course, BPs suck, and I would much rather go through Emovie, with their lack of BP and the quality customer service.  Unfortunately, Heritage gets the A1 quality primo shit.  Thus, one must deal with BPs.  I no longer even look at the bid price, I look at the bid + BP, and if I want to only spend 400, I make damn sure that the bid + BP + sales tax (lack of sales tax at emovie, another PLUS) come to that.  In the heat of a bidding war during the HA sig auction, I've gotton out of control and didn't take all 3 factors under complete consideration, but that's my fault and part of the game.  Ah movie paper, and what we do for it  

i always take BP into account, ergo, I never paid more than I wanted to unknowingly, though I certainly have paid more than I wanted to for some things because I had no choice. I'm good with math, and such simple math as "what is 20% more"  is an effortless computation

[CSM]

definitely not. I have no plans for BP at any time now or in the future.

just an intelligence test :-P

Glad to hear it

[Silhouette]

Of course it's part of the process - there was a sign at the door before I walked in telling me the house rules, I read them and as a result I am well informed before the auction begins.

Frankly more auction houses should have it, so many people get so up-in-arms about it they decide to boycott said auction houses as a matter of principle, that simply means less competition for me.

[Matt]

Quite simply, for the proposal you have put forward Rich...it's meaningless.

There is two questions really.

Is the buyer adequately informed of the BP. A bit like entering a carpark where you pay fees and for how long? Early birds rates and such. There are laws in Aus. that protect the consumer if you are not informed at the entrance in RED BOLD LETTERING  of hourly rates and times.

The second is. If they do know. Shut the fuck up and pay............whooops... that's not really a question.

[50s]

Is Bond Posters now doing auctions? If they is, where is they? I used to worry at night about Buyers Premiums but now they is not worth fretting over. Rich's hypothetical are thought provoking but are not and is not to me.

This thread are becoming opinionated as there are red text and there also are a rude word. Is you all understanding me?

 

[lynaron]

BP's are just part of the process.  I don't have a business to run or employees to pay so I don't know if 20% is too much a premium to ask.  But considering the effort that goes into presentation of a poster I wont complain to loudly.  The same goes for mailing fees.  I can't just jump in the car and zip across the Atlantic Ocean, drive over to White Plains, Dallas or Lost Wages to pick up a win.  So, all in all, I figure the BP and mailing into the amount I'm willing to risk.  But that's just me  .

[Simes]

It is ultimately fine for the buyers - of course.  The % is just factored in to the bidding process.

I feel sorry for the consignors who looks at an item selling for $1000 but then ultimately only has a % return from $800, if 25% BP is the factor.  And before you state, yes, this too is factored in to the argument as to whether to consign or not.

[Bruce]

Simes

You nailed it. The purpose of buyers premiums is to deceive the CONSIGNORS not the bidders (although it does trick a very few buyers, but that is just a side benefit).

When a potential consignor calls an auction house and asks how much the auction takes if a poster sells for $1,000, they are told $150 or $200 or whatever, but no mention is made of the buyers premium, and if the potential consignor asks about it point blank they are told "You don't pay that, the buyer does".

But the consignor DOES pay it! When that poster hammers for $1000, the buyer pays $1200 or so, and the consignor receives $850 or $800. If that same poster sells for the same $1200 in a buyers premium-less auction, they receive $960, a hefty difference.

And THIS is why they have buyers premiums, NOT to trick the bidders.

[50s]

The purpose of buyers premiums is to deceive the CONSIGNORS not the bidders (although it does trick a very few buyers, but that is just a side benefit).

That doesn't sound like a great tactic to retain consigners for further consignments.

Ok, so, those auction houses with BP want first (and last) time consignment suckers

[jayn_j]

That doesn't sound like a great tactic to retain consigners for further consignments.

Ok, so, those auction houses with BP want first (and last) time consignment suckers

No, because the sites with BP also tend to be the sites that get the better material, and sell it at a higher price.  So, in Bruce's example that same poster that sold for $1200 at HA, might only sell for $900 at emovie and $700 at movieposterbid.  The consigner gets more and never sees the issue.

[paul waines]

There's Buyers Premiums at a few places I buy at, but I always take it into account when bidding, you would be daft not to. I even add in extra costs, postage, travel, etc..
So I usually bid quite low at these places, if I win so be it, if I don't there's MANY other posters out there, so no biggy. Why line other peoples pockets by pushing up prices? Does the thought, "I'll teach him to bid against me" ring any bells...?  Sellers love this.

A lot of newer collectors will EVENTUALLY realise that there's always something else around the corner, and it's the "I must have it" attitude that pushes up prices. True there are the odd special one off's we need, but on the whole, slow and steady wins the race...

[Bruce]

No, because the sites with BP also tend to be the sites that get the better material, and sell it at a higher price.  So, in Bruce's example that same poster that sold for $1200 at HA, might only sell for $900 at emovie and $700 at movieposterbid.  The consigner gets more and never sees the issue.

Jay, if you will investigate this, you will find it is total myth. When you compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges you will find that we get better prices. And this does not include the posters that didn't really sell, because the sales fell through, or the consignor bought back their own item at no commission, or the auction house bought the item from themselves.

[AdamCarterJones]

In my opinion, BPs are part and parcel of the auction world.
If a auction doesn't charge a BP then great!

[MoviePosterBid.com]

No, because the sites with BP also tend to be the sites that get the better material, and sell it at a higher price.  So, in Bruce's example that same poster that sold for $1200 at HA, might only sell for $900 at emovie and $700 at movieposterbid.  The consignor gets more and never sees the issue.

absolutely correct

there is nothing hidden about BP. If you know math and can do it on the fly (as most people can) it doesn't affect you as a buyer and if you understand it, it doesn't affect you as a consignor.

note that the auction house (Heritage) that charges the BP has most of the highest auction prices for the same items sold elsewhere and of course as I have said earlier in other threads, it is unlikely that any auction other than Heritage can get a quarter million for a Frankenstein insert, or a Flying Down to Rio one sheet and that includes MoviePosterBid and whomever else

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Jay, if you will investigate this, you will find it is total myth. When you compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges you will find that we get better prices.

for what? under $100 posters?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

okay.. to be sure, I'm not trying to be snarky, so let me insert something here

blanket statements that implicate one person is better than all other persons are ridiculous

each auction, including my own, gets higher and lower prices than their competitors all the time. No one auction gets more money than any other auction for everything they sell. It may not even be true to a real majority of items. Without doing a study across many months of auctions or years of auctions making minute comparisons for every item sold by auction is the only way to yield honest data, and I seriously doubt that any person or company has done the requisite research to come up with a certain answer.

I can say "I do better on some things and not on others" Both Heritage and Bruce and Movie Poster Exchange can make the same statements

I sold a Johnny Guitar 1sh on 8/7 for $189
http://www.movieposterbid.com/itemdetl.asp?id=106493

emovie sold one a few days later in approximately the same condition for just $116
http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/9542376.html

last one Heritage sold was back in 2011, so it may be a true comparison. It was $239 and lower condition
http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=161113&lotNo=53207

in this case it's 1) Heritage 2) MoviePosterBid 3) Bruce

apples to apples I would bet that Bruce and Heritage might swap spot #1 & 2 back and forth for most everything and I would swap #2 & 3 with either of them in different comparisons.

On lots of uber-high-priced items, like the Frankenstein insert, I really don't believe anyone can beat Heritage in auctioning such an item, though if we add Profiles in History to the mix, that's a possible race.

Yes, Bruce does get really good prices for lots of stuff that seems odd to go that high. He sells lots of stuff also for dirt cheap as is noted in advertising (half of what we sell is under $14.00) and yes, Heritage having a min $14 BP to any item does mean that Heritage never sells below $15 and clearly any of those items are fair comparison.

but the point really is that NO PERSON ON THIS EARTH IS BETTER THAN OTHER PEOPLE
it's my philosophy in life and it's my philosophy in business.

disclaimer: I can more likely say no person is better than another person unless the other person shows him/herself to be a lesser person. Clearly Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church, or Rush Limbaugh or Adolph Hitler are not good people and we ARE better than they. There are levels