Two different million dollar books in the same week

[Dr Hackenbush]

There's no direct equivalent to "slabbing" in movie poster collecting, so the Casablanca analogy doesn't work.  Also, I was assuming that slabbing is permanent.  If it's not permanent, you should unslab it, peruse it (carefully) and, when you want to sell it, resubmit it for grading.

The CASABLANCA example works because there's no slabbing equivalent for MP.  As for reslabbing a book, the only problem is that you're never assured you'll receive the exact same grade twice.  Handling wear could bring the grade down or the graders may be particularly tight or lose with their grading that day.  So the book's grade may fall by a half grade, rise by a half grade or stay the same - you don't know.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Obviously, we're never going to agree, which is no surprise....

Comic Book Collectors' Dilemna--to Slab or not to Slab?

Brad Schepp

Do you collect comics for fun or profit? Well if you're like most collectors, it's a little of both. Regardless, if you think that one day you may sell some or all of your comics (and it seems many of us do) you may want to learn more about "slabbing." Slabbing is the process of having your comics professionally graded, and then encased between two sheets of hard plastic (some sources identify this plastic as "Barex", but there's some controversy as to what type of plastic it is). A special paper that prevents acidification is tucked into the comic as part of this process. Slabbing protects the comic from weather extremes, mositure, dust, and all the other things that can decrease a comic's value.

Collectors both love and hate slabbing--there is no middle ground. First, here's why they love it. Slabbing protects a comic indefinitely (no one knows for how long exactly, as the process is so new). Once slabbled you don't have to worry that your prized Superman, Batman, X-Men, Spiderman, or Archie comic will lose its value, or any of its "eye appeal." That's a big plus! Also the slabbing company (Comics Guaranty, LTD or CGC is the major one, although there are others) will grade your comic as part of the process. Grades are on a .5 to 10-point scale with .5 being poor and 10 being Mint. When you're looking to value and/or sell your comics it's a great advantage to have it graded. It's much easier to sell a comic if you can say it's a CGC 6.0, instead of "in my opinion it's in Fine condition." I know this from personal experience and from talking to other sellers, including those selling comics, for my book eBay PowerSeller Secrets.

Now, here's why some collectors hate slabbing. Once a comic is slabbed you can't read it! You can't take it out from between the plastic that encases it without destroying the seal that the grading company puts along the top of the case. Once that seal is broken the grade is no longer guaranteed. That makes sense because if you take it out you may change its condition somehow, thus reducing its grade. (Although I think most collectors would be careful enough not to harm their comics.) So if you are going to slab a comic you have to get used to the idea that forever it will be encased between plastic sheets. You'll still be able to see its front and back covers but you won't be able to page through it. That's a tough thing to get used to. Also, slabbing ain't cheap. Depending primarily on the comic's age it can easily set you back $50 once you figure in shipping and insurance. And here's something that's not discussed all that much: the cases get scratched easily, and when light hits those scratches your beautifully encased comic doesn't look so hot. New cases aren't as expensive as the original ones if the comics don't have to be regraded, but you still have to pay for shipping and insurance to CGC and back.

There are more pros and cons to this slabbing business but those are the main ones.

My advice? Slab Golden Age comics that are worth at least $150. (Because more modern comics are cheaper to slab, you may consider slabbing one of those if its current value is $100 or so.) It's worth the cost in the long run and at $150, a comic is a pretty valuable investment, which will likely appreciate over time. There's great peace of mind that comes from knowing your comic will not lose any value after you slab it (barring a change in market conditions, of course). If you want to be able to read your comic, you can also search the web for a PDF version of it. These are available from newsgroups devoted to the hobby. Or you can buy one of those printed compilations of old comics.

Enjoy your hobby! Comics are a snapshot of American pop culture, just like magazines or fashions. Besides they can bring back some great memories.

[Ari]

said it many times, but here goes again.
Slabbing is an American thing, nobody else wants it.
I work in rare coins, and we get slabbed coins from USA, and take out a screw driver and bust the sucker open.
firstly, the grading is shocking, we know dealers who send in a few and get grade X, the same coin can be regraded after being sent from a dealer who sends a LOT in, and get a better grade.
2) people like to have access to the item, if its a comic book, and slabbed, its all about investment, want to read it? your screwed - or you bust the sucker open.

I rerally know nada about slabbed comics, all I know is I deal in very high end coins and anyone thats slabbed gets unslabbed. if I got a [poster slabbed, it sure as heck would be unslabbed to.

I WANT PAPER not a plastic container that has nice art hidden beneath the shiny crap. and a grade told to me by who the freak knows who?

[Dr Hackenbush]

I know plenty of folks in the UK and Australia that by slabbed books, Ari.  It's not just an American thing.  Some of them keep the books in slabs and some crack them out.  Either way works

[Dr Hackenbush]

Here's a video from a collector in Belgium that shows how to crack a book out of a slab.  It's done regularly by many collectors all over the world

[Ari]

OK, might be true, to me, to buy a slabbed book, is like. hmm, buying a laminated eggplant. makes no sense, unless its INVESTMENT, if I buy a book, and I got a lot, (LOT) I want to read the sucker,
when collecting gets to investing, its spoils it for most, and the ones who get the good stuff, dont care (as long as their whatever goes up in $) or to put it another way, MR X writes a book, manages to get it published, wants people to read it. Instead its locked in a plastic capsule - Mr Y buys it and it sits on a shelf, he hopes to make a buck. Id assume Mr X made a buck, maybe he doesnt worry, but maybe he'd like his work to be read. Dunno, I love books, and to see them go to waste is a shame to me, maybe silly,
I might be a grumpy old man, but slabbing to me, especially things like books and comics, is .. hmm.. disgraceful.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

OK, might be true, to me, to buy a slabbed book, is like. hmm, buying a laminated eggplant. makes no sense, unless its INVESTMENT, if I buy a book, and I got a lot, (LOT) I want to read the sucker,
when collecting gets to investing, its spoils it for most, and the ones who get the good stuff, dont care (as long as their whatever goes up in $) or to put it another way, MR X writes a book, manages to get it published, wants people to read it. Instead its locked in a plastic capsule - Mr Y buys it and it sits on a shelf, he hopes to make a buck. Id assume Mr X made a buck, maybe he doesnt worry, but maybe he'd like his work to be read. Dunno, I love books, and to see them go to waste is a shame to me, maybe silly,
I might be a grumpy old man, but slabbing to me, especially things like books and comics, is .. hmm.. disgraceful.

Said well and well said, Ari, although through some unconventional variant of English - let's call it "Arish"

[Dr Hackenbush]

OK, might be true, to me, to buy a slabbed book, is like. hmm, buying a laminated eggplant. makes no sense, unless its INVESTMENT, if I buy a book, and I got a lot, (LOT) I want to read the sucker,
when collecting gets to investing, its spoils it for most, and the ones who get the good stuff, dont care (as long as their whatever goes up in $) or to put it another way, MR X writes a book, manages to get it published, wants people to read it. Instead its locked in a plastic capsule - Mr Y buys it and it sits on a shelf, he hopes to make a buck. Id assume Mr X made a buck, maybe he doesnt worry, but maybe he'd like his work to be read. Dunno, I love books, and to see them go to waste is a shame to me, maybe silly,
I might be a grumpy old man, but slabbing to me, especially things like books and comics, is .. hmm.. disgraceful.

Slabbing has caused many to look at the bottom line (value) far more than they used to, agreed.  In many ways it has turned comics into a commodity.  But, as I stated before, there's another side to this coin.  And that is that CGC raised the standard for grading and disclosure of restoration.  Unlike posters, restoration kills the value of a book to 1/4 or 1/3 of its unrestored  counterpart (dependent of the type and amount of resto).   Is slabbing for everyone? No.  Is CGC without its faults? No. But you have to take the good with the bad and, for me, CGC has done more good than bad for the hobby.  Has it pushed many books out of my price range?  Sure has, but that's the nature of the market right now

[ddilts399]

Hack are you on the dealer side or the collector side in the comics field? By and large, the CGC is a plus for the dealer and a negative for the collector unless the collector deals in 4 figure plus books and does not trust who they buy from. It is an artificial inflation of the books worth, you pay a premium "because an expert says so" which is ridiculous.

The comic field has killed itself in the back market world. Any key book that grades a VFN+ is shipped off to CGC, thus taking the book out of the hands of people that fuel the sales of non-key books. Then in addition to that, the endless trade paperback market makes back issues less hunted because you can just buy the trade for less money and not have to hunt the missing books.

Its really sad, hunting the back issue bins was the BEST part of being in the hobby, and now most shops dont want anything to do with them at all other than those that are known for dealing gold/silver books.

[Dr Hackenbush]

I'm a collector.  I occasionally sell to buy other books…or posters    I have to disagree with your assessment of the market to a degree.  I was just at C2E2 and I know many dealers/part-time dealers who's best sales are .50/$1/$2 books.  They can never have enough at cons.  Why?  Because collectors are looking to (cheaply) fill holes in their runs.  Many young collectors came up to me while I was manning my friend's booth asking for back issues of modern (2000 on) books.  Back issues are still a huge part of many, many collections.  As for me, 99% of what I buy is raw.  Granted it's GA, but it's still raw.  But you're right, it is an issue of trusting who you bought the book(s) from and it has made many collectors chase numbers, especially BA/CA/Modern.  However, even the best dealers make mistakes.  I'd rather know about it sooner (so I can get a full or partial refund) than later.  But that's just me.  For the sake of full disclosure, I have maybe two dozen slabs in my collection.  Everything else is raw

[Ari]

I get it, I just find it a shame, buy a comic or book, cant read it, thats what they are made for, is all. I suspect if I was inclined and wanted to invest Id feel different, my trouble is I actually like to read.

[Dr Hackenbush]

And I respect your position.  There are many that feel the same as you, so it makes for good debate.  If everyone believed the same thing it would make this world incredibly boring

[Ari]

yep, true. I guess it comes down to collecting Vs Investing, or collecting with a view to Invest or a view to use.
Same with posters, I used to buy anything if I liked it, and pack away, hence a house full of boxes, now when buying, its either for resale (not often anymore) or something I want to frame and display, or for the obsessive part, to complete my hammer collection. (oh or my hell drivers collection / oh or my Val Letwon collection)
if slabbs were nice looking, id be happy to have slabbed Lobby cards, if the grade was ON THE BACK, and it wasnt an ugly plastic thing, I dunno, im old fasioned I guess.

[CSM]

First thing tomorrow morning, I buying as many old dressers as I can!



Comic book buff selling rare copy of Batman No. 1
           

FAIRBANKS, Alaska – A longtime Alaska comic book buff is selling one of the gems in his vast collection, a rare copy of Batman No. 1 published 70 years ago.

Mike Wheat of Fairbanks has put the 1940 comic book on the auction block through Dallas-based Heritage Auction Galleries, where it's expected to fetch more than $40,000. Online bids already have climbed to $35,000 for the book, believed to be one of fewer than 300 still in existence.

Online bids will compete with a live auction set for Thursday.

The second and fourth Batman issues also will be part of Thursday's auction. They are expected to bring more than $5,000 combined.

Wheat, a retired city wastewater treatment plant operator, said he considers the Batman comics an investment. He said it feels like the right time to sell.

"I just decided it's time for someone else to have it," he said.

The Batman No. 1 comic book was discovered after local businessman Ron Jaeger bought an old dresser at a garage sale in the early 1970s, then kept it in storage for a few years. When Jaeger finally brought it out, he noticed one of the drawers didn't slide easily.

Three comic books and a few old issues of the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner were tucked beneath the drawer and a quarter-inch piece of plywood. The haul included a copy of Batman No. 1, Superman No. 17 and an old issue of a Red Ryder Western comic.

Wheat already had a reputation as an avid comic collector in 1974, and Jaeger sold him the comic books for $300.

The auction house has handled many copies of Batman No. 1, but Wheat's copy is notable because the low humidity and cool temperatures in Fairbanks have kept the paper in excellent condition, said Barry Sandoval, director of comic auctions and operations at Heritage. Old comics were printed on cheap newsprint, but the pages in Wheat's copy remain white and crisp.

"If we got a Batman No. 1 from Texas or Louisiana, if you opened it up after 70 years the pages would start to crumble," Sandoval said.

The condition of comics is graded on a scale of one to 10. Wheat's copy has been graded a 5.5. That's a middling score for a newer comic, but impressive for a vintage copy.

"I see how most comics from that era look," Sandoval said. "Most 70-year-old comics are in pretty rough shape."

Batman No. 1 was the first solo spin-off for the character, who made his first appearance in 1939 as a character in Detective Comics No. 27. The debut includes the original appearances by two of Batman's key foes, the Joker and Catwoman.

[Dr Hackenbush]

Prices for Batman 1 have been rising steadily over the past couple of years, not that they were stagnant before that.  Record prices have been paid for copies over for the last year or so. 

[Juli]

Prices for Batman 1 have been rising steadily over the past couple of years, not that they were stagnant before that.  Record prices have been paid for copies over for the last year or so. 

I'm thinking that may have to do with the success of the Dark Knight. People's interest has risen for anything Batman.

~ Juli

[Dr Hackenbush]

That certainly hasn't hurt, to be sure.  It's also the first appearance of the Joker & Catwoman, two mainstays of Batman's rogues gallery

[Arcade]

I have been a member of the CGC comic book forums for over 3 years now.
I have heard it all.
Slabbing is a great part of the hobby. The books are not permanently encased in plastic, they open fairly easily.
The only draw back is you have to get it re-graded if you choose to do that. Again, not a big deal.
Most of us love the grading process because it allows for a census on how rare a book is in high grade.
If there are only 1 or 2 copies of a certain book graded at 9.6 or 9.8 it is very nice to know that.
The best part, that has not been mentioned here, is that it allows all of us comic collectors to have our collections ranked nationally.
I am constantly in an out of the top 10 X-Men collections in the nation. It makes the hobby much more exciting to know that just one more book can move you up in the rankings. We have all gotten to know each other very well and help each other out all the time.

I hope that someday this forum becomes as lively as my CGC Comic forum. I plan on hanging around and helping out. I still have a lot to learn about movie posters. Hopefully some of the people that just read messages and never post will join in on the fun here as well.

[CSM]

Arcade, what is your opinion on the accusation that CGC or other graders can be "persuaded" to grade higher on a book or that certain books may be submitted by certain well-known dealers and magically be given for example a 9.8 whereas it was previously submitted and given a 9.6?

It just seems so dangerous to me when a centralized authority like the CGC is allowed to come so dangerously close to running/influencing an entire hobby (well perhaps the "elite" end of it anyways).

Just curious...

[Arcade]

There is always a danger of that going on when humans are running the show. It is never going to be 100% certain.
However CGC is the closest thing we have.
Before them, you had to trust the individuals and dealers who are more likely to lie about a books background. Just check Ebay. LOL.
Any graded book can be off by a point or two anyway. There is no exact science, just a consensus of three individual graders.
On any given day a book will come back with a completely different grade.
However if things ever got way out of line, the whole thing would crumble like a house of cards.

The really great thing about them is their restoration checks. This is very hard to catch and dealers can easily lie about this.
I really like knowing my X-Men collection is super high grade and unrestored.
They have done far more good for the hobby then bad.

[Dr Hackenbush]

I have been a member of the CGC comic book forums for over 3 years now.
I have heard it all.
Slabbing is a great part of the hobby. The books are not permanently encased in plastic, they open fairly easily.
The only draw back is you have to get it re-graded if you choose to do that. Again, not a big deal.
Most of us love the grading process because it allows for a census on how rare a book is in high grade.
If there are only 1 or 2 copies of a certain book graded at 9.6 or 9.8 it is very nice to know that.
The best part, that has not been mentioned here, is that it allows all of us comic collectors to have our collections ranked nationally.
I am constantly in an out of the top 10 X-Men collections in the nation. It makes the hobby much more exciting to know that just one more book can move you up in the rankings. We have all gotten to know each other very well and help each other out all the time.

I hope that someday this forum becomes as lively as my CGC Comic forum. I plan on hanging around and helping out. I still have a lot to learn about movie posters. Hopefully some of the people that just read messages and never post will join in on the fun here as well.

Just as long as joe_collector, Cap_FFreak, or KK don't find themselves over here, everything will be pleasant 

[Dr Hackenbush]

Arcade, what is your opinion on the accusation that CGC or other graders can be "persuaded" to grade higher on a book or that certain books may be submitted by certain well-known dealers and magically be given for example a 9.8 whereas it was previously submitted and given a 9.6?

It just seems so dangerous to me when a centralized authority like the CGC is allowed to come so dangerously close to running/influencing an entire hobby (well perhaps the "elite" end of it anyways).

Just curious...

The graders don't know who submits a book.  The book is taken out of its package by someone in shipping & receiving, entered into the computer by them, then passed along to the graders.  That being said, if the Church copy of Action 1 gets sent in, everybody knows who submitted it, but examples like that are rare.

Like Arcade said, the difference between a 9.6 and 9.8 is minimal.  More than a few books have gone up in grade, normally a half point, by a straight resub.  Conversely, many books have also gone down in grade via that same resub.  An infamous example is a Hulk 1 Pacific Coast copy that went from an 8.5 to 8.0 during such a resub.  That's a nice chunk of change the submitter lost hoping for a higher grade ($thousands).  

[CSM]

I still stand by my comment that it is frightening to have a central "authority" like the CGC control a hobby...

[Zorba]

I still stand by my comment that it is frightening to have a central "authority" like the CGC control a hobby...

I dont know a damned thing about comic books but the idea of any central authority controlling anything just makes me cringe with thoughts of a Joseph Stalin aka douchesss maximus. 

[Dr Hackenbush]

Comic collecting was around decades before CGC and it would be around if CGC disappeared tomorrow.  I'm all for competition, unfortunately the only other certification company is a scam-and-a-half, so people gravitate to CGC.  I wish there was legitimate competition for them as it would be good for collectors and that aspect of the hobby.