Yet another thread raging at incompetent shipper (museumofmomandpopculture)

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

This hobby is turning me into a rageaholic!  

My $450 Hour Before The Dawn from Emovie showed up ridiculously over-packed and, although I certainly appreciate it, it didn't even matter because it's going to the linen-backer anyway.

On the other hand I absolutely DID care about my $450 High School Hellcats, which USED to be mint-condition perfect tri-folded and quite possibly the best condition copy on the planet of that poster.  However, the idiot seller (museumofmomandpopculture) chose to send it in a mediocre tube and - SURPRISE! - the tube showed up bent and damaged and the poster was dented from top to bottom.  Fortunately, the back looks worse than the front but no question it must be pressed or linen-backed to repair it.  Not only is that $200 more down the tubes but it ruins the "special-ness" of a mint perfect unrestored copy.  

The uber-asinine thing is that the seller paid for insurance instead of spending $2 extra on a crush-proof tube.  I'm just stunned and amazed by such bass-ackwards thinking.  Don't buy insurance - just spend the money on a crush-proof tube and pay $.65 for tracking. It's just that simple.  It's totally inexcusable.  Now I've left negative feedback, have to fight a war over it, and the poster is no longer special....

[Zorba]

That sux.

I really hate that. I mean I really really really hate that.

[paul waines]

The poster is still special Mel, but there is nothing more infuriating then a poster damaged through incompetence... If they had rolled the poster tighter than the tube, I think it would have been O.K. This needs pointing out to many sellers. And you do right to leave bad feedback.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

The poster is still special Mel, but there is nothing more infuriating then a poster damaged through incompetence... If they had rolled the poster tighter than the tube, I think it would have been O.K. This needs pointing out to many sellers. And you do right to leave bad feedback.

It was rolled tighter inside but still damaged.  I've received hundreds of tubes and no strong tube has ever arrived dented while 15-20% of the weaker tubes arrived dented.  IMO the strength of the tube is far more than important than rolling it tighter inside.  When I ship, I never roll it tighter inside but I always use strong tubes.

This is a relatively rare 54 year old poster and there are very very few mint perfect trifold copies around, but now it's just another beat-up copy that needs repair.

[lynaron]

Man that sucks .  I've had a number of transactions with Alan and never experienced a packaging fuck up from him.  Never bought a large poster though, only stills and the like flat packed. 

Lynn

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Well, I'm now more educated about Yazoo Mills tubes.

It appears this poster came in a $1.65 Yazoo Mills “light duty handout tube” as described here:

http://www.yazoomills.com/mailing-tubes/light-duty-handout.aspx

The manufacturer specifically says they are “not intended to be used as a mailing or shipping tube.” 

The seller should have used a $2.73 “heavy duty tube” which are described here:

http://www.yazoomills.com/mailing-tubes/heavy-duty-kraft.aspx

Yazoo says “these heavy-duty kraft tubes can withstand the rigors of handling by today’s carriers and insure your goods arrive at their final destination undamaged.”

So an extra $1.08 spent on a stronger tube would have saved it.

I’ve compared the Yazoo light duty tube (1/8” thick) to the standard Emovie tube (3/16” thick), which is 50% thicker, as shown in this photo:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Emovie.jpg

So I guess the lesson always use 3/16" tubes like Emovie (and the other independents too as I recall).

[Charlie]

Man that sucks .  I've had a number of transactions with Alan and never experienced a packaging fuck up from him.  Never bought a large poster though, only stills and the like flat packed. 

Lynn

That is who I got my African Queen Insert from... No issues.  Not Bruce packaging but a pretty stiff tube...

[brude]

I would hope that Alan makes it right.
That valuable a purchase should have been packaged far better than that.
My condolences, Mel.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

I would hope that Alan makes it right.
That valuable a purchase should have been packaged far better than that.
My condolences, Mel.

He's offered a full refund but this poster in this condition is irreplaceable.  I just want a partial refund so I can get it "pressed" and restored to its original condition. (I think pressing costs $180.)

[CSM]

He's offered a full refund but this poster in this condition is irreplaceable.  I just want a partial refund so I can get it "pressed" and restored to its original condition. (I think pressing costs $180.)

If you're going to spend $180 to get it pressed, I would just get it linenbacked Mel...

[crowzilla]

Well, I'm now more educated about Yazoo Mills tubes.

It appears this poster came in a $1.65 Yazoo Mills “light duty handout tube” as described here:

http://www.yazoomills.com/mailing-tubes/light-duty-handout.aspx

The manufacturer specifically says they are “not intended to be used as a mailing or shipping tube.” 

The seller should have used a $2.73 “heavy duty tube” which are described here:

http://www.yazoomills.com/mailing-tubes/heavy-duty-kraft.aspx

Yazoo says “these heavy-duty kraft tubes can withstand the rigors of handling by today’s carriers and insure your goods arrive at their final destination undamaged.”

So an extra $1.08 spent on a stronger tube would have saved it.

I’ve compared the Yazoo light duty tube (1/8” thick) to the standard Emovie tube (3/16” thick), which is 50% thicker, as shown in this photo:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv275/Forty_Candles/2012/Emovie.jpg

So I guess the lesson always use 3/16" tubes like Emovie (and the other independents too as I recall).

Mel it looks to me like Alan did use the Yazoo Heavy-Duty tube.
You have converted the thickness incorrectly in your example.
The Yazoo Light-Duty tube is .045 thick - that is roughly 1/22" of an inch.
The Yazoo Heavy-Duty at 3" x 30" is .1" thick (1/10) which is nearly half of the .1875 (3/16) tubes that you say Bruce uses (I thoguht he used 1/8" tubes - which is still 25% thicker than Yazoo, but maybe he does use 3/16" ones).

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

As shown by this video I made, that tube can't withstand any significant pressure, contrary to the Emovie poster tube, which is rock solid! (Kudos to Bruce and Company!).  

Even if that tube is the "standard" Yazoo tube, he should not have sent the world's most pristine copy of High School Hellcats in it.  Should have been sent in a crush-proof tube like Emovie's.

[Silhouette]

My advice....

Don't wear shorts when filming. 

[Bruce]

Thanks for the plug! OUR tubes also comes from Yazoo Mills. Originally, they only offered crappy tubes like the other one you show, and around 10 years ago I asked them to custom make a truckload of much heavier tubes for us (like the one you show here).

They did, and after our second or third truckload they asked if we minded if they offered them to all their customers, and we said of course not, because it would result in thousands fewer damaged posters from sellers everywhere!

So when you order tubes from Yazoo Mills just say that you want ones "just like what eMoviePoster,com gets" and you will likely NEVER have a damage complaint again!

[jayn_j]

Since this was going on so long, I went out and got a caliper and actually measured the tube thickness on some 1 sheet tubes. (what a concept)

Both Bruce and Rich are using 3/16" thick tubes.  Rich's come from ULINE, and Bruce just told you his are Yazoo Mills.

[Ari]

So it comes down to men and their rulers,
I always new Size does matter.

[crowzilla]

As shown by this video I made, that tube can't withstand any significant pressure, contrary to the Emovie poster tube, which is rock solid! (Kudos to Bruce and Company!).  

Even if that tube is the "standard" Yazoo tube, he should not have sent the world's most pristine copy of High School Hellcats in it.  Should have been sent in a crush-proof tube like Emovie's.

I'm not saying that.
My point was that you stated he should have used the Yazoo Mills Heavy-Duty tube, when in fact it appears he did indeed do that.

Maybe Yazoo needs to make their "Bruce-tubes" more apparent on their ordering page

[50s]

I think if a seller buys a tube, no matter how fantastically wonderful it may be described, even if the product is Yazoo certified Bomb Proof, has 1" thick walls and has a picture of Bruce on the tube, the seller must still assess the tube themselves before sending it off.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Mel it looks to me like Alan did use the Yazoo Heavy-Duty tube.
You have converted the thickness incorrectly in your example.
The Yazoo Light-Duty tube is .045 thick - that is roughly 1/22" of an inch.
The Yazoo Heavy-Duty at 3" x 30" is .1" thick (1/10) which is nearly half of the .1875 (3/16) tubes that you say Bruce uses (I thoguht he used 1/8" tubes - which is still 25% thicker than Yazoo, but maybe he does use 3/16" ones).

The meaning of "wall thickness" on the Yazoo website is not explained.  The Emovie tubes have a 3" diameter and 3/16" (.187 ?) wall thickness and the Yazoo Mills tube I received - which looks like the Light Duty tube (white interior/brown exterior) - is 2/16" (.125 ?).  The 1/16" difference is obviously crucial. We all know these tubes are carelessly tossed in huge bins and end up underneath hundreds of other heavy packages and tubes. An experienced dealer like MOMAPC should have known that a 2/16" tube with a 3" diameter, which crushes under moderate direct pressure, was inadequate for a $450 irreplaceable poster.

[Bruce]

For the sake of full disclosure, we also use tubes of 4", 6" and 8" wide, in lengths ranging from 16" to 96".

We always get them the same thickness, and I can't say for certain they offer them on their site because I don't order off the site. THIS is why I tell people to request tubes that are exactly the same as the ones eMoviePoster.com gets, so people know they are getting tubes that virtually crush-proof (we sent out around 300 tubes per week on average, and around one in 5,000 is damaged in transit, usually looking like a vehicle ran over it. By contrast, at least one in 100 of the non-eMoviePoster,com tubes we receive back (with consignments) have some degree of damage (many consignors are also buyers, and they wisely save our tubes to re-use).

I would estimate that at least one in ten of the miserable triangular tubes arrives with some degree of damage, and at least one in 40 have considerable damage.

[ozcinemagic]

Looks like neg's gone??

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Looks like neg's gone??

Yep, by offering a full refund for return he automatically "won" the case and Ebay erased the negative feedback. I wanted to keep it and receive a $200 partial refund from insurance proceeds to pay for the damage.  He's refusing to cooperate with the insurance claim unless I return it. Of course, I could sue him in court but it's not worth it. From now on, I'll just assume all Ebay sellers are inept and send a crush-proof tube to the seller to ship my expensive posters.

By contrast, at least one in 100 of the non-eMoviePoster,com tubes we receive back (with consignments) have some degree of damage (many consignors are also buyers, and they wisely save our tubes to re-use).

Your consignors are savvier than most Ebay sellers.  I've received several hundred tubes and flat package and the crush/bend rate is 15%.  The shipping has no rhyme or reason.  I've received worthless repros in bomb-proof tubes and expensive posters in toilet paper roll tubes.

[ozcinemagic]

I'm surprised about the feedback being removed. The whole system is opinion based, so it should stay. I suppose with refund there is no sale, so that's why.

Put the poster in a sleeve and store at bottom of 100 one sheets. It will flatten. Even that tented one on your site would go down over time. Might take a year, but will be good.

I have used strong tubes used to package engineered steel shafts before. They are as strong as Bruce's and around the same 3/16 thickness, compressed cardboard. Someone supplying distribution warehouses will have them.

[Bruce]

"Your consignors are savvier than most Ebay sellers"

Ipso facto. This goes without saying!

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Put the poster in a sleeve and store at bottom of 100 one sheets. It will flatten. Even that tented one on your site would go down over time. Might take a year, but will be good.
 

Like I said before, the poster looks OK from the front and you'd have to look closely to spot the damage on the front.  On the back you can can easily spot the rippling, warping, and denting.  Home flattening techniques will not fix them. I'll have to shell out $200 for pressing to restore it to its original pristine condition.  

Generally, I've found that home flattening techniques never really work and often the "cure is worse than the disease." I've tried the "put 100 heavy books" on top technique before but that just causes permanent rippling and warping throughout the poster.