Tom Loce (tloceposters) fake thread

[erik1925]

Sorry to read about your suspect purchase, Wishmaniac. Seems tom loce will always be pushing the fake stuff on the unsuspecting and unknowing buyers.

Here's hoping you get a speedy and painless refund. Keep us posted and thanks for the info, too.

It's always good to have. 

[jayn_j]

Bruce is one of the trustworthy folks.  He prides himself on being knowledgeable and honest.  If you discover a fake has slipped by, he will cancel the auction, or refund all costs if it has sold.

There are other dealers I will trust, even a few that list primarily on eBay.  If you aren't sure, ask here.

[eatbrie]

Bruce is one of the trustworthy folks.

 

One of the very few, imo.

I'm quite amazed that a crook like Loce has been able to sell his fakes for so long with no one taking him down.  Every respectable collector knows about it, yet the guy keeps on doing what he does best.

T

[50s]

Lawyer Mel is not pursuing, what hope anyone else will? And Mel is APF champion of knowledge on poster copyright.

Maybe call Tom Loce - Teflon Tom

[CSM]

And why should eBay care - they just keep making money off him

[erik1925]

And why should eBay care - they just keep making money off him

And he's been doing it so long without any real repercussion, aside from negative comments on ebay that he seems to be able to get removed. And Im sure loce has Googled "copyright law," too, and just laughs.

[Wishmaniac]

Sorry to read about your suspect purchase, Wishmaniac. Seems tom loce will always be pushing the fake stuff on the unsuspecting and unknowing buyers.

Here's hoping you get a speedy and painless refund. Keep us posted and thanks for the info, too.

It's always good to have. 

Thanks for the note, erik1925!
I requested to return the poster and TL has accepted my return, so it's in eBay's hands now.
The good news is... TL will be down a couple hundred bucks next week.

[erik1925]

Thanks for the note, erik1925!
I requested to return the poster and TL has accepted my return, so it's in eBay's hands now.
The good news is... TL will be down a couple hundred bucks next week.

Congrats!!

And just curious.. when you wrote and said you wanted a refund because the poster wasnt genuine (if you said that or something similar), what was his reply, when he agreed to giving you your money back?

[oldposterho]

While I'm at it, btw, the dozen or so "Style A" one-sheets for this same film that have sold for such high prices on emovieposter over the years ... some of which would seem to be hanging out in shops on eBay at this very moment... are all extremely fishy too.

There was a large stash of these uncovered awhile back that are being trickled into the market, which explains the apparently endless (albeit limited) supply.  Not to worry when purchasing from the big boys.

[erik1925]

Hey everyone... I'm a newbie who joined because a friend and I bought spotless "Style B" Nude on the Moon one-sheets from Tom Loce recently and both thought they were fishy. I see from this forum he's a notorious piece of sh*t and that our concerns were merited. I'll take his offer for hassle-free returns but wanted to add this transaction to the list of his dubious activities. By the by, for future reference I own the original pressbook for Nude on the Moon and this style was NOT offered as a one-sheet... only a 40 x 60. Caveat emptor.

I'm attaching a photo of Loce's repro. He's actually got a third one up now, btw. And, unlike his usual, crazy high-priced Buy It Now listings he's offering these theoretically super-rare posters as 7-day auctions opening at $9.95.

While I'm at it, btw, the dozen or so "Style A" one-sheets for this same film that have sold for such high prices on emovieposter over the years ... some of which would seem to be hanging out in shops on eBay at this very moment... are all extremely fishy too. Let's just say this: what are the odds that every copy of this poster that emovieposter has sold in the past ten year would be in "fine to very good" condition" with zero signs of use? And all rolled, not folded? Pretty peculiar for an obscure, early Sixties nudist film poster, huh? And check out the first three copies of this poster they claim to have sold... the only ones with any signs of use. Notice that the pictures on all three auctions are of the same poster with the same defects? Also pretty strange. I think maybe I'll stop beating myself up for never having won one of these posters and let it go: somehow, the spell has been broken.

Glad to be part of your very knowledgeable community. Hope these comments help.

emp explains why these copies were found unfolded and where they were found, so it seems reasonable, in this particular case (and in the era when most posters were machine folded):

"Important Added Info: Note that this poster was found at a printer that printed many movie posters in the 1950s and 1960s, and which had gone out of business. They had kept samples of many of the movie posters they had printed over the years, and they were stored unfolded, and since they had been taken straight off the press, the samples were in exceptional unfolded condition! Most of the titles that were discovered in this find were very uninteresting (this printer did not print for major studios, but only for minor ones and independents), but included among these printer samples was this poster! As noted above, this poster is considered the "Holy Grail" of sexploitation movie posters, and it is unfolded and in wonderful condition!"

[Wishmaniac]

Congrats!!

And just curious.. when you wrote and said you wanted a refund because the poster wasnt genuine (if you said that or something similar), what was his reply, when he agreed to giving you your money back?

I just filed a formal, eBay return request, Jeff, selecting "Doesn't seem authentic" as my reason.

I didn't get any kind of personal message back ... just received a note from eBay saying the seller had authorized the return.

[Harry Caul]

Now he's resorted to tearing off the section with the missing GAU logo -- what a sleaze ball.

STAR WARS ADVANCE 1977 ORIG MOVIE POSTER GEORGE LUCAS AS IS

[Wishmaniac]

emp explains why these copies were found unfolded and where they were found, so it seems reasonable, in this particular case (and in the era when most posters were machine folded):

"Important Added Info: Note that this poster was found at a printer that printed many movie posters in the 1950s and 1960s, and which had gone out of business. They had kept samples of many of the movie posters they had printed over the years, and they were stored unfolded, and since they had been taken straight off the press, the samples were in exceptional unfolded condition! Most of the titles that were discovered in this find were very uninteresting (this printer did not print for major studios, but only for minor ones and independents), but included among these printer samples was this poster! As noted above, this poster is considered the "Holy Grail" of sexploitation movie posters, and it is unfolded and in wonderful condition!"

Not to keep kicking this can down the road, LOL! (cuz honestly I'm not trying to "make a case" against EMP, from whom I've bought dozens of very nice items), but just to continue this intellectual exercise, I'd be curious to know how many other pristine, unfolded "proofs" from long-defunct "print shops" have found their way into the poster market? I also find the suggestion that the other posters from this reported "treasure trove" were somehow too "uninteresting" to mention ... cuz, you know, who in the heck ever wanted to buy rare, fine-condition one-sheets from obscure, "independent" movies LOL!!??... a bit too convenient. And why would a company that's willing to list everything and anything for 99¢ even make such a distinction? Just put 'em up for sale and see if the market finds them "interesting." Again... I'm not trying to disparage the seller, but I'll continue to treat these posters as... uh ... novelties. 

[guest4955]

Lawyer Mel is not pursuing, what hope anyone else will? And Mel is APF champion of knowledge on poster copyright.

Thanks but studios don't/won't enforce their copyrights to post-1978 posters, which are still under copyright. They make a bazillion dollars every day from ticket sales so poster fraud issues are way beneath their notice.

I wish they would. The ONLY ONLY ONLY time the studios sued was when FOX sued MovieGooods. What happened to MG?



Anybody on the planet can reprint/sell pre-78 posters (with relatively few exceptions technically under CR) 100% legally.

[guest4955]

Leave a NEGATIVE review and state that the poster is a FAKE. Otherwise he will keep getting away with this. Too many people buy from him and leave him positive reviews because they do NOT know any better. Sorry this happened to you.

Cheers!

eBay will ice those reviews when Locust calls eBay if you got a full refund....

[guest4955]

Tom is a man with a plan...and a large format printer with a supply of glossy paper.

He can fake anything he can get a high res scan of.

That's an MP urban legend. He doesn't have a commercial printer, which are ginormous, expensive, and hard-to-maintain/ink. He doesn't sell nearly enough dig fakes to make that viable.

How do I know? I ... er ... asked him and he credibly denied it.

Locust is a complicated reality. He's not a nutcase like Egbert. He's a malicious scamster for sure. But he can be hilarious when it suits him.

Take his Prof. Powers website. In Round 1, I railed against it. But now I "get it." It is funny-as-hell wackiness. He knows no one will take it seriously....

http://www.angelfire.com/stars4/mymovieposters/aboutme.htm 



*****

But still what's the appropriate punishment for him?

Shoot him at dawn with a GINORMOUS Nerf gun:

[guest4955]

Now he's resorted to tearing off the section with the missing GAU logo -- what a sleaze ball.

STAR WARS ADVANCE 1977 ORIG MOVIE POSTER GEORGE LUCAS AS IS

Yep, beyond pathetic:

[theekanne]

I followed TL stories for quite a while, since a guy who was interested in buying my original blade runner poster told me how he bought a blatantly obvious fake from your man...
I cant believe he is still selling them at this moment 50% off 300$ only now...very funny
I dont understand the american legal system but I am 100% sure this would not be possible here in Europe
I found posts 10 years old of people complaining about him..
It seems a seller is in trouble here after only 1 or 2 paypal /ebay money back claims

He must be worried somebody will confront him in person and physically assault him one day

I personally must say I had a mainly great experiences buying online from US
For many years...

[MoviePosterBid.com]

That's an MP urban legend. He doesn't have a commercial printer, which are ginormous, expensive, and hard-to-maintain/ink. He doesn't sell nearly enough dig fakes to make that viable.

How do I know? I ... er ... asked him and he credibly denied it.

did you think of asking him about his friend Larry who went to jail for counterfeiting cash with his uncle?

note: the uncle's business was..... printing.

Mel, you are so naive, it's making me laugh.

the bootlegs that came out, came after Larry was released
some of us know way more on this subject than you ever will.

[guest4955]

Spotted these recent $$$$ sales by our favorite dealer:

[erik1925]

He sells a linen backed poster for $25K, and only charges $5.00 for Expedited shipping.

That's some deal. 

[guest4981]

As a new collector this is the area I understand least yet marvel at most. Like Theekane, above, I truly do not get this.

I don't understand why someone doesn't simpy BUY one or two of these more costly fakes from this subhuman, have them proven fake, and string him up.

You're not talking a few grand here -- you're talking about 10's of thousands of forged profits on a single poster in some cases. And 100s of thousands of dollars in ill-gotten profit over his career.

[guest4981]

The only reason I can imagine as to why he can't be done in, is perhaps because it falls on the buyer to know what he's buying? I don't know.

I think the only thing more absurd than these fake sellers are the people who part with significant money without researching and knowing best they can what they're buying. Idiots on both sides of the deal, imo.

[guest4955]

Yeah if it is legit, he made a ginormous profit:



*****

Hopefully the buyer will ship it off to Poster Mountain for authentication.

But rich people can be morons:

[poster art]

I'm afraid to say that I may be the latest victim of the Tom Loce fakes. Not 100% sure but at least I know one of them if a repro due to the size. But to be honest, all the posters I have bought of him over the last few months have all seemed a little thin but I could never be certain as I didn't have the original to compare them with.

Some actually seem ok to me but I just cannot be sure, how can I find out? I am sure that at least one is original as it is on hfailly think paper and the way it has been folded seems to have been like that for decades, by the look of it.

Ok, nothing was expensive, spent a total of £180 on about 12 UK Quads - which I thought were good prices if they are originals - as advertised. I had my doubts on a couple as they seem to be fairly thin paper but the thing that unhinged was a UK quad of Heathers that I bought last month (I see that he has sold 2 so far in the last few weeks and has another on sale now starting at $10 - it is listed as original UK Quad, not a fake or repro/reprint etc and the size is stated as being 27 x 40 (to be honest I didn't notice the odd size), but when I got it and measured it was only 28 x 37 (so obviously not an original quad - and again thin paper).

I have been collected quads for years so normally I am very good at spotting fakes but when someone blatantly advertised it as "Original UK Quad not a repro/reprint) then I tend to trust them. Maybe foolishly - but it is the first time I have been caught out and to be honest if I had known abut this thread I would not have bought of him - but a fellow collector on here just today pointed him out to me for selling fakes.

I think he seems to lure people in to the site with cheap posters on auction (low price start) possibly in the hope that once you are hooked on buying from him then at some stage you may buy something expensive of him - luckily I haven't .

But any advise on the ones I have bought - how to spot the fakes from the originals - they are all UK Quads.

Off the two that I was disappointed before I found out about this thread he has already refunded without issue.

Any advise appreciated.