Heritage Packing Fail = Damaged Poster

[Zorba]

The worst nightmare is not receiving them at all. Got 2 packages missing lately...

True. Happened to me once with Heritage. After I had gotten a refund the poster turned up back in Texas. Funny place to lose a poster, your own facility.

Good luck with the two. 

[enki]

So, to conclude my epic tale, I wanted to let everyone know that I received my check from HA today. So they resolved the issue properly and promptly. A thanks goes out to Grey who personally took care of it.

[CSM]

So, to conclude my epic tale, I wanted to let everyone know that I received my check from HA today. So they resolved the issue properly and promptly. A thanks goes out to Grey who personally took care of it.

Lucky you Enki!

[Undead]

Enki,

I feel your pain, I purchased several lots myself. As can be seen below they fared far worse than yours. To their credit though, there was no issue with refunds or working things out as one of the lots in particular, ESB color separations, was too rare to send back as I am not likely going to see another set come up for sale. I had purchased another oversized poster and they survived safely inside that one like the paper packing method that EMP uses, just unintentionally. Sadly several others including some Star Wars posters from the Williams collection will never be the same which is a tremendous shame, luckily there were not any of the very rare ones. Refund showed today for me as well.

[brude]

Refunds are all well and good, but the careless handling of rare and valuable items -- Enki's Lucas-signed SW Concert poster and your ESB color seps -- is inexcusable.
I cannot believe that this even occurs.
WTF?

[CSM]

What amazes me as well is that the posters aren't even Heritage's property until delivered to the auction winner!  They still owe a duty of care to the consignor

[enki]

Enki,

I feel your pain, I purchased several lots myself. As can be seen below they fared far worse than yours. To their credit though, there was no issue with refunds or working things out as one of the lots in particular, ESB color separations, was too rare to send back as I am not likely going to see another set come up for sale. I had purchased another oversized poster and they survived safely inside that one like the paper packing method that EMP uses, just unintentionally. Sadly several others including some Star Wars posters from the Williams collection will never be the same which is a tremendous shame, luckily there were not any of the very rare ones. Refund showed today for me as well.

That's horrible! Out of curiousity, which other SW posters did you pick up? I wanted to go for a few of them, but many of the prices just went astronomical (IMHO). So I decided to just go all in on the one.

I think I will take that same approach when I order from HA in the future. Always buy some cheap poster that's bigger then the one you care about to serve as a protection mechanism...

In my emails to HA, and in my phone call with Grey, I strongly encouraged that they really need to change their packaging system. He didn't seem to be too interested in my advice though, but hopefully they eventually fix it. There 'oops' in my case cost them about $450. That could have paid for enough paper to properly pack every poster in their signature auction.

While the seem to have no problem risking $10-$5000 posters in this manner, I wonder how they treat the $150,000+ posters they sell.

[Charlie]

 

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Enki,

I feel your pain, I purchased several lots myself. As can be seen below they fared far worse than yours. To their credit though, there was no issue with refunds or working things out as one of the lots in particular, ESB color separations, was too rare to send back as I am not likely going to see another set come up for sale. I had purchased another oversized poster and they survived safely inside that one like the paper packing method that EMP uses, just unintentionally. Sadly several others including some Star Wars posters from the Williams collection will never be the same which is a tremendous shame, luckily there were not any of the very rare ones. Refund showed today for me as well.

What exactly happened?  

You should definitely get the ESB separations pressed and make Heritage pay for it.  They truly are irreplaceable.

PosterMountain charges $200.

[Simes]

Oh dear!.

Just bought a poster from them... awaiting their postal invoice.

Doesn't bode well.

Thanks for the heads up.

Well, while providing no solace to the ones with stories before me, my poster turned up well packed and safely handed over.  Mind you it was a flat packed item as opposed to rolled.  I always have more concern over the rolled items.

[Undead]

Mel, my case was just like Enki, only bubble wrap on one side of the tube and not the other so they slid around in shipping. The unprotected end got smashed to hell and the protected end was only slightly damaged since it had some padding from the bubble wrap.

Enki, I had marked about 30 auctions that I planned on bidding on and in the end only bid on and won five, two Star Wars. Those were the separations and the IMAX Attack of the Clones, I have an uncut ticket sheet, thought they would go great together and paying a little extra for a truly mint looking copy was ok to me in this case. It did not survive well and now has edge tears and other damage. Can send picks if it comes up for sale and anyone wants detailed shots of the damage I took lots of them. For the Star Wars posters, they blew my mind on many of the prices and in very few cases went for less than I expected them to. Thankfully I either own or have owned just about every poster that was made pre-SE so passing on them did not hurt from an OCD collectors standpoint. The only one that I let go and regret is the Hildebrandt Quad, should have kept bidding on that one.

In all most of the prices exceeded what I thought they would go for well before the live auctions started across many fields, not just Star Wars which is why I chose to pass. I think that a few of the most out there prices were-

Star Wars Record Mylar $1,015 which in that condition I think should be $150.00 at an absolute Max. http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7060&lotNo=83313
Star Wars Russian Cowboy $3,585, my jaw is still on the floor. http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7060&lotNo=83293
Star Wars Trilogy Draft House, I think it is a cool poster but.... http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7060&lotNo=83318
Star Wars Six Sheet, stopped bidding on this one at around $800 http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7060&lotNo=83307
Star Wars Japanese 82RR is a $150.00 poster IMO tops http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7060&lotNo=83316
Empire Quad, admittedly very rare in any condition this went for more than I felt it was worth but apparently at least two bidders disagreed which is good for the consignor and Heritage, bad for me, will keep looking. http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7060&lotNo=83601

The Empire Strikes Back Coke Posters blew my mind, I need to dig my rolls of these out and start selling them. When I was a dealer 20+ years ago when I used to give them away with any Star Wars purchase just to get rid of them. Same with the Burger King posters. Speaking of that keep an eye out, I am going to sell off a bunch of duplicate posters that I have no need for shortly, will post in for sale area.

The most surprising out of this world prices though in my opinion were on the Hong Kong posters.

$3,107


$2,309

I think actually that you made out with one of the best deals on the Concert poster.

For non Star Wars posters the one that I wanted the most but passed on at the price was the Walking Dead. For some reason I love the artwork on that one and just don't know why, even had the spot I wanted to show it picked out already. I don't think the price was all that bad but knowing how the descriptions from heritage may sound nice and detailed but actually are rarely ever accurate I thought it best to let it go. http://movieposters.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7060&lotNo=83273



My packages actually came in two lots for both the Sunday poster auction and the main Beverly Hills auction that ended that week. They mixed the two lots thankfully which is how the larger poster came to be around the separations which survived due largely I believe to there flexibility plus that they are attached to a heavy stock paper. They actually did not slide down to he bottom of the roll that got crushed at the end. If they had, they would have been a loss, you cannot press these, they would warp and melt very very easily, my father used to make these working as a printer for a major paper for 50 years. I asked him his opinion since one of them seemed warped in the Heritage images, thankfully it is not and all are smooth overall. It was just the way Heritage had taken the picture, they did not lay it flat so it looked warped when it was not. He felt it was exposed to heat in the one corner and shrank. As they are just thin sheets of acetate only with color on them I doubt the inks would survive the heat of the pressing and would adhere to the pressing materials as they are not as tightly bonded to the acetate as they do to paper. What looks like staining is actually on the white paper sheet that is behind them, not on the actual separations themselves, the actual separations are in far better shape than I expected them to be, only the paper backing sheet is showing any real wear to it and even that is not that bad overall considering they were actually used as a tool and not meant to be a collectable.

As can be seen here they arrived safely thank every god you may want to pray to.



In all I got lucky but have learned two lessons about heritage when it comes to buying from them, expect the damage in shipping and be prepared to return or try and get a partial refund at least until they learn to ship better and second take whatever grade they give a poster and subtract 1.5 grades or so making VF become VG to VG+  and you will have a better idea what to expect when the poster arrives. Yet another Plug for you know who, eMoviePoster.com, I have never had the slightest issue with descriptions even with my inflated expectations that high grade actually be high grade and all items I have received have been shipped as good as I would ship to someone else.

[enki]

Thanks for the thorough and informative post!

And yes, I thoroughly agree with your about EMP. Not only are the condition reports precise (if not better then described), but the shipping has always been beyond perfect.

Why were you surprised about the Russian Cowboy poster? IIRC, that's an extremely rare one and doesn't come up that often. I really like it myself, but the fact that it's huge and broken into 3 sheets makes it difficult to display (for me at least). But I thought the sale price was around what it's value was.

Question: what exactly is a "separations" poster? I've never heard of that before.

[enki]

By the way, here is my poster framed on on my wall:

[Undead]

Now that is sweet Enki!!! One of my favorite Star Wars Posters and one of the very very few I have never owned a copy of. I am jealous!!!

Another long winded one, sorry but there are lots of pics for those that do not like to read and just enjoy the pretty aspects of the hobby.

On the Russian Cowboy version, I feel the rarity does demand a strong price yes but I do not think it is that rare where it should demand quite that price for a more modern poster. Also I am not all that fond of the artwork myself which is one of the main driving forces behind my collecting, do I like the poster(s).... Yes, do I like the movie... Yes, in that case it is OK to buy. I prefer to buy based on the artwork and if I enjoyed the movie or not and collectable/investment value after the fact as we can never say exactly where this market or any collectible market will go. As an example I just paid what I feel was above the value for a rolled Attack of the Killer Tomatoes poster. In the case of this movie I feel it is one of the coolest posters in my collection so to me it is worth more than to someone else who does not think the artwork is as cool. Same goes for the Cowboy SW poster.

For the color separations when a printer poster, newspaper, etc. is preparing  to do a print run, before the current digital methods anyway, they create a series of acetate sheets which each color printed separately for each color used. For a CMYK 4 color print run these would be Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black. After creating each color layer these are then bound to something in most cases like the heavy paper backing sheet these are bound to or sometimes just stapled to a board layered one on top of each other in order of the colors as they are printed each layer can be peeled back as needed to one color or a series. These are then used to compare each color as they are printed one atop the other as well as individually to proof them and make sure that they are printing correctly. I have taken some shots and shown them below in order as well as the individual colors themselves. In this case there are actually five colors technically as there is a silver layer for the title. If there is a problem and let’s say the magenta is not printing properly then they can identify the color issue and correct it before continuing the print run setup and moving on to full printing production run. In short they are used to setup the presses color process prior to as well as while making the full runs that produce the final posters. These are IMO one of if not the rarest collectible poster pieces you can have short of owning the original plates themselves or the color separations used to create the plates as these are actually created before the final printers proofs and posters themselves. As an added tidbit, there would be two types of these, one in color, these and one in black and white for each color for use in creating the plates themselves. Odds are these are one of one or two sets created prior to any printing taking place and likely the only ones in existence for this poster which from the cool factor perspective of collecting printed material is just really something else. Since I am actually a collector of all kinds of printed materials this gives these extra significance as they are not only for one of my favorite posters and movies but a rare piece of the actual printing process itself. I am absolutely amazed they did not sell for far more than they did.  

Side by side shots of each of the five colors used for this poster. Keep in mind these are actually all attached like a flip book or something similar. Normal four color printing used Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black. In this case there is a fifth silver layer for the title. Any waviness seen is just from the way I took the shots without trying to make sure everything was smoothed out to much, also some waviness is from the white paper I have separating the sheets themselves.


First printing layer, yellow (Y) only.


Second printing color run magenta (M) over yellow


Third printing process cyan (C) over yellow and magenta


Fourth printing color run black (K) over cyan, magenta and yellow


Final run for this poster silver over all other colors


Individual color separations shown individually

Yellow (Y)


Magenta (M)


Cyan (C)


Black (K)


Silver

[MoviePosterBid.com]

to those who don't know this factoid:

each unit at Heritage is a separately incorporated business with separate leadership.
The shipping unit is an embarrassment to Heritage, although I have never gotten a damaged package from them, sometimes they aren't up to snuff in other ways.

Grey Smith is not in a position to change what goes on at the shipping dept (as a corportae structured business is set up) and he can't do much more than complain to the dept head either.

[Neo]

Excellent posts, Undead.  Very informative and interesting.  Sounds like you have a lot of knowledge about the "older school" printing process.

Very cool Star Wars posters.

 

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

to those who don't know this factoid:

each unit at Heritage is a separately incorporated business with separate leadership.
 

Very interesting.  Similar to the law business, large general law firms vs. boutique firms that specialize in one area of the alw.

I guess the Heritage structure is beneficial for three reasons: (1) shared admin costs, (2) able to handle diverse consignments (estates, etc), and (3) cross-marketing among the divisions.

[Silhouette]

Grey Smith is not in a position to change what goes on at the shipping dept (as a corportae structured business is set up) and he can't do much more than complain to the dept head either.

As credits, costs to repair and complaints seem to escalate (thus impact on margins) one would imagine it is something he should be able to successfully raise with the head of the packaging area and if no improvement then at board level.

[enki]

Agreed. In my case, I wonder which "separately incorporated business" took the loss to pay for the damage.

[ATLfun]

Very interesting.  Similar to the law business, large general law firms vs. boutique firms that specialize in one area of the alw.

I guess the Heritage structure is beneficial for three reasons: (1) shared admin costs, (2) able to handle diverse consignments (estates, etc), and (3) cross-marketing among the divisions.

 I would add a fourth: (4) Limited Liability   

Brian
 



 

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Very interesting.  Similar to the law business, large general law firms vs. boutique firms that specialize in one area of the law.
I guess the Heritage structure is beneficial for three reasons: (1) shared admin costs, (2) able to handle diverse consignments (estates, etc), and (3) cross-marketing among the divisions.

Mel, casinos are setup the same way. The casino floor is incorporated separate from hotel, food and amenities, each of which is incorporated as a separate entity. The table games are incorporated separately from slot machines as is poker.

[Simes]

And yes, I thoroughly agree with your about EMP. Not only are the condition reports precise (if not better then described), but the shipping has always been beyond perfect.

Yes, if EMP was the only place to buy material from, I would be perfectly happy.

And they say bullets bounce off their packaging...