New Valuation Section on MoviePosterCollectors.com

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

There are some good movie poster "valuation" web pages out there but most of them are stone-agey and texty, so I thought I'd try a more visual and modern approach to it with a new Valuation section on MPC:

http://moviepostercollectors.com/Valuation.html

Any constructive suggestions welcome. Some screenshots:

[Bruce]

More correct on that Public Enemy would be to say "2/3 of one original known".

If you want to REALLY help newer collectors, amend your condition chart to have one more column, showing where our word grades fall (for example, our very good would be next to 7, etc). Since we auction more vintage posters than everyone else put together, it seems that it would be very helpful to include that.

[crowzilla]

Very nice looking Mel. Glad to see someone putting the letters/numbers next to each other. I don't understand why some auction houses cling to the archaic letter system. There are many parts of the world where they don't use the roman alphabet and A doesn't come before B. Numbers are universal, and I think far easier to use to describe an item and be understood around the world.
(side note - I don't see much paper loss on the Jaws poster on the right, and I wouldn't put "very" in front of rare for Animal House, but those are pretty minor points).

Bruce, do you actually have a chart/scale anywhere on your site talking about your grading terms.
If I was a new collector, went to your site and saw a poster described as "good" would I know that isn't the best grade you use? Or unlike every other dealer in the world, would I know that "fine" is the top grade you give out?  (I understand it's far easier to separate your grades into fewer rather than more specifics, but you could at least put up a chart of the word order you use).

Even on the "learn more" button in your grades, you fail to state exactly where the word you are using falls on your scale.

[Charlie]

I think the number system is good in theory but hard in application and much too weighted to higher grades.  You can also easily say that 8 out of ten people may arrive at the same grade based on word grading where I bet half or fewer would produce the same number grade. I think as long as a dealer clearly explains the grading system that is all that matters.  I would rather see an accurate description of flaws versus a grade but that is what dealers tends to do...

[Bruce]

Charlie, we get fewer than one in 4,000 items returned for missed defects or over-grading, so I KNOW our system works.

Actually, as you point out, ALL grading systems work when the sellers are honest in their grade and point out defects you can't see in their images.

I used to buy all the time on eBay, but so many times I received an over-graded item or was not told about the defects (and the kind that no one could possibly have "missed") that I quit looking at eBay altogether. When I combined the over-grading factor with the poor packaging factor, it just stopped being worth it for me.

The problem with grading is a lack of ethics on the part of some, not everyone using the same system.

Bruce

[jayn_j]

Bruce, do you actually have a chart/scale anywhere on your site talking about your grading terms.
If I was a new collector, went to your site and saw a poster described as "good" would I know that isn't the best grade you use? Or unlike every other dealer in the world, would I know that "fine" is the top grade you give out?  (I understand it's far easier to separate your grades into fewer rather than more specifics, but you could at least put up a chart of the word order you use).

Bruce puts an explanation of the grade on every item up for auction.  It doesn't just say "good".  Instead it says:

Condition: Good

Notable Defects: The poster is somewhat discolored. There are several pairs of staple holes with small tears scattered throughout the poster and there is separation at the crossfold and ends of the horizontal fold (some repaired with tape from the back). Fortunately, the poster's defects are mostly in solid color background or border areas and after restoration the poster will surely display well with little paint restoration needed.

What does this condition grade mean?
This item has some significant imperfections. If they are within the image, they are likely quite noticeable, and they may be in the blank borders, where they may be more significant. We may have written a few words about those imperfections, but we may not have, as you can likely see them by looking at our "super-sized" image of the actual item (if they are the type that CAN'T be seen in our super-sized image, like faint water staining or tape on the back, we ALWAYS describe that in words). Note that the term "good" in collectible grading can be deceptive, because items in "good" condition are not "good" at all, but this terminology has been used forever this way, and it is probably too late to change!

Don't know what else one could ask for in a description.

[Bruce]

Bruce puts an explanation of the grade on every item up for auction.  It doesn't just say "good".  Instead it says:

Don't know what else one could ask for in a description.

Thanks Jay. The proof is that we get next-to-no items returned, even though we auction well over 100,000 per year. On the rare returns we do get, we pay all shipping costs, so the customer is out nothing except some of their time, and depending on the circumstances, we often give some free books as well.

Bruce

[Charlie]

Charlie, we get fewer than one in 4,000 items returned for missed defects or over-grading, so I KNOW our system works.

Actually, as you point out, ALL grading systems work when the sellers are honest in their grade and point out defects you can't see in their images.

I think is it not just the items that are returned but items buyers think about returning too.  For example, I can recall only one item I thought of returning from your auctions Bruce, but when I went back to the description you had clearly stated the defect. It was my oversight so how can I blame you.  And No I am not Mel's secret double agent for Bruce...  I would further say I've never thought about returning anything from Hideyuki, Dale, John Reid, or than cinemacollectorsvegas guy - Or Vesna and others over PM deals...

In regards to two particular dealers Dave (Cinemasterpieces) and Heritage I've gotten items delivered that to me were questionable especially since all I relied on was their grade and photos.  My first ever purchase from Dave had a piece of tape which I could easily remove as well as pin holes; if I recall neither were written down in the listing.  As for Heritage there was an ugly stain on my Cleopatra Insert that was not described in the write up just a broad shotgun approach for the grade.  The image did show a boosted stain which was much more noticeable in person so I did not return - my mistake but I don't take full credit.  And then the whole Terminator quad debacle. None of these I returned but they were both "check marks" in the negative columns.  I have not bought from either again.  Although I do think I would buy from Dave again - just nothing of interest lately.

I guess if I were to provide some advice for anyone's endeavor to sell posters: is to not to solely rely on the number grading system or qualitative wording system but make sure to describe defects in detail.  There is nothing worse, to harm a reputation of a seller or selling system, than disappointment.  Every buyer wants to be "wowed" when he opens that package not "Oh crap I didn't see that stain or pin hole. Now I have a POS and no money to buy another."  Yeah, yeah, you can stand behind your return policy but why should I have to spend my time making up for your incompetence in describing a product accurately.  And I am not just singling folks out, I think every seller could do a better job even if they are doing great now.   I think the biggest fear of some is that if they describe a poster accurately it won't bring as high of a price that it would under a 'vale of vagueness'. 

I think I experienced this first hand when I recently ran some auctions and described every major issue with the posters and didn't get a single bid.  But perhaps if I would have gone with 8.5 to 9 based on the MPE model, I would have sold many of them.  No collector likes to read "Scratch", "Stain in corner", "Dog Ear", "Fold Separation"... But worse is seeing something for the first time when you open the package. 

No one wants to feel 'had' or 'stupid' and that is what can happen when a dealer leaves the buyer to do his work.  Working under an attitude of 'Buyer Beware' is not always the best way to gain and retain customers.  This is especially true if buying from so called reputable dealers because the expectation is there.  Commitment to trusting a dealer and, even once, getting the feeling of being had or left to fend for yourself is a black mark.  Dealer's who do this are not better than the hacks on eBay IMO.

And then to the complaint of not having time to study each poster for defects...  It takes no more than 30 second to look over a poster in detail and another 90 seconds to write it out.  Success has two routes: through hard work and through cutting corners and lies.  The latter may have great successes in brief flashes but often a great failure.  Dealer's don't be afraid of hard work and honesty - it will pay off.

OK enough of my soap box BS... 

[crowzilla]

Bruce puts an explanation of the grade on every item up for auction.  It doesn't just say "good".  Instead it says:
Don't know what else one could ask for in a description.

Look - he has almost the exact same thing written for "Fair"
"What does this condition grade mean?
This item has major significant imperfections. If they are within the image, they are likely quite noticeable and distracting, and they may be in the blank borders, where they may be even more significant. We may have written a few words about those imperfections, but we may not have, as you can likely see them by looking at our "super-sized" image of the actual item (if they are the type that CAN'T be seen in our super-sized image, like faint water staining or tape on the back, we ALWAYS describe that in words)."

and "fair to good" is very different:
"This item has major significant imperfections. If they are within the image, they are likely quite noticeable and distracting, and they may be in the blank borders, where they may be even more significant. We may have written a few words about those imperfections, but we may not have, as you can likely see them by looking at our "super-sized" image of the actual item (if they are the type that CAN'T be seen in our super-sized image, like faint water staining or tape on the back, we ALWAYS describe that in words)."
oh wait, that is exactly the same.

All I was asking for was a scale showing how he ranks he each word, but I guess that is too difficult to do.

[Charlie]

Look - he has almost the exact same thing written for "Fair"
"What does this condition grade mean?
This item has major significant imperfections. If they are within the image, they are likely quite noticeable and distracting, and they may be in the blank borders, where they may be even more significant. We may have written a few words about those imperfections, but we may not have, as you can likely see them by looking at our "super-sized" image of the actual item (if they are the type that CAN'T be seen in our super-sized image, like faint water staining or tape on the back, we ALWAYS describe that in words)."

and "fair to good" is very different:
"This item has major significant imperfections. If they are within the image, they are likely quite noticeable and distracting, and they may be in the blank borders, where they may be even more significant. We may have written a few words about those imperfections, but we may not have, as you can likely see them by looking at our "super-sized" image of the actual item (if they are the type that CAN'T be seen in our super-sized image, like faint water staining or tape on the back, we ALWAYS describe that in words)."
oh wait, that is exactly the same.

All I was asking for was a scale showing how he ranks he each word, but I guess that is too difficult to do.

My point exactly.  So what are the defects?  Just create a check box grading system in MS Access or whatever to automate what goes in the description.  Done.

[jayn_j]

Don't want to get into some fanboy thing, but my point was that Bruce almost always has a detailed description of the flaws for a particular poster in addition to the general rating.

I learned LONG ago that Bruce's criteria is different than Rich's, is different than Rix's, etc.  You need to be able to trust the consistency for the dealer you are considering.  I know what a Very good from Bruce means.  I know what a C-6 from Rich means.  I often don't know what a very good from Rix means, so I tend to be more suspicious.  I haven't bought anything yet from MPE, (but I will), so I don't have the experience to comment on your grading.  However, I appreciate the large images and that goes a long way toward giving me confidence.

Now, for this and other similar discussions that have been popping up all over APF, I simply say:

[Silhouette]

Probably nit-picking but surely 'Fresh off the Press' would actually be Mint?

[crowzilla]

Probably nit-picking but surely 'Fresh off the Press' would actually be Mint?

Not always. Manufacturing defects do occur.
But that is the general assumption, yes.

[Bruce]

What in the world does "a nicely preserved item" mean? And why is that better or worse than "small pinholes and/or small border creases"?

Someone composed those in a minute or two and now the entire hobby is stuck with moronic definitions?

Bizarre

[stewart boyle]

What in the world does "a nicely preserved item" mean? And why is that better or worse than "small pinholes and/or small border creases"?

Someone composed those in a minute or two and now the entire hobby is stuck with moronic definitions?

Bizarre

I agree with that,I did pose a similar thought a while ago.We are here together,we have a collective knowledge of grading..
Maybe It`s time to come up with a new more defined grading system,an easy 1 to 10 with any defects extensively noted?

Stew

...much like most dealers try to do......

[Silhouette]

Maybe It`s time to come up with a new more defined grading system,an easy 1 to 10 with any defects extensively noted?

Good luck with that...

Personally I find the multiple numbering/step grading a pain, it really doesn't help me at all. There is so many variations of fine it's ridiculous. I like Bruce's, it's the one I use when describing what I may be selling/trading.

I am not getting into the discussion about Bruce's grading versus others, we all appreciate his and we also all understand grading is subjective, I understand all that but hell: Fine, Very Good, Good, Fair and Poor with the (underrated) hyphen as the measure by which anything in between is tied is very clear for me.

[stewart boyle]

Good luck with that...

Personally I find the multiple numbering/step grading a pain, it really doesn't help me at all. There is so many variations of fine it's ridiculous. I like Bruce's, it's the one I use when describing what I may be selling/trading.

I am not getting into the discussion about Bruce's grading versus others, we all appreciate his and we also all understand grading is subjective, I understand all that but hell: Fine, Very Good, Good, Fair and Poor with the (underrated) hyphen as the measure by which anything in between is tied is very clear for me.

I know what you mean..this is one of lifes un-answerable questions...grade..It`s too subjective..

Stew

[Ari]

Funniest thing is someone asking Bruce to type MORE words, must be chilly in hell today.

[CSM]

Funniest thing is someone asking Bruce to type MORE words, must be chilly in hell today.

 

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Added new sub-sections concerning restoration and folded v. rolled: