Author Topic: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin  (Read 210515 times)

Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #375 on: September 30, 2012, 10:15:18 PM »
Ive been trying to get him to do 4 & 6 sheets as well! Come on Charlie .. you know you wanna try some awesome large format posters! :)

It is in the works... I have to build a bigger table and make a wall for mounting. I plan to do this when I move into the other room. I also have to save up and order a washing table top - I keep thinking that a granite slab may do it.  My mirror washing table is only 50" x 50" so the Italians etc. would hang off...FAIL!  The most important part of the process is that damn table top...  I also have to make a fiberglass soaking tray to fit them... I could fold them over and use mesh but that just seems dangerous...

Offline Ari

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #376 on: September 30, 2012, 10:20:36 PM »
It's interesting it's cellulose, I read years back when gel backing was being discussed at nsfge that it had a gelatine base, which put me off, I wouldn't like to have a gelatine backed poster, that's just gross.
I'd be interested in knowing all the ingredients used in restoration and backing.
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Matt

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #377 on: September 30, 2012, 10:25:02 PM »
Top job once again Mr Stevens. Well Done!!!

Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #378 on: September 30, 2012, 10:29:23 PM »
It's interesting it's cellulose, I read years back when gel backing was being discussed at nsfge that it had a gelatine base, which put me off, I wouldn't like to have a gelatine backed poster, that's just gross.
I'd be interested in knowing all the ingredients used in restoration and backing.


Well like most things I am just taking an educated guess at this point.  I've researched a bunch on the unbacked process where twice boiled and pressure cooked paper pulp and methyl cellulose create a rigid backing...  After I experimented today I can say the Methyl Cellulose is very Gel-like... It is the consistency of warm honey...  I may still be off, but I can easily imagine taking the methyl cellulose + cellulose powder and brushing it all over the back of an insert to 'rigid' it up...  The only thing I need to figure out is how they mount the poster face down to holytex that is mounted to a board... So that when it all dries it is flat...

Offline Ari

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #379 on: September 30, 2012, 10:34:11 PM »
Here's one of the old threads at nsfge you might want to read, never know what might help.

http://stylec.yuku.com/topic/767/another-conservation-process
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Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #380 on: September 30, 2012, 10:42:24 PM »

Offline Ari

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #381 on: September 30, 2012, 10:57:35 PM »
Aha thanks, not that I ever want a poster that's been covered in fish, but interesting nonetheless
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Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #382 on: September 30, 2012, 11:31:05 PM »
Here's one of the old threads at nsfge you might want to read, never know what might help.

http://stylec.yuku.com/topic/767/another-conservation-process

So what I am talking about is starch backing. I guess the part I am miszing is how they adhere the front of the poster to the holytex and then to a board.. what is that glue?

Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #383 on: October 23, 2012, 01:17:33 AM »
Mel's 'The Big Heat'  is up for more Staycay fun; lots of prep work on this one though...  Plus I have to redraw that damn arm!  ;)


Offline CSM

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #384 on: October 23, 2012, 01:48:08 PM »
Looking forward the results - and the proper styling of the arm  ;D
Chris

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #385 on: October 23, 2012, 01:53:03 PM »
If you need anatomical reference for the arm, I'd suggest Popeye.


Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #386 on: October 24, 2012, 11:03:44 AM »
Got something for you Mel...  moron1 I guess we both missed this mess on the back of the Voodoo Woman.  :P  Just joshing a bit here - it was actually a good learning experience - I had never removed so much tape before in one go.  Boy that Bestine is good stuff. After the first hour, I was feeling kind of groovy... ;D



I got Mel's Girls backed (3) and thought that a blog post would be easier:

http://pulpfixin.com/blog/2012/10/24/mels-girls/

Crazy sock day! I always wonder what my daughter will think about all this when she get older...


Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #387 on: October 24, 2012, 12:17:27 PM »
Got something for you Mel...  moron1 I guess we both missed this mess on the back of the Voodoo Woman.
Crazy sock day! I always wonder what my daughter will think about all this when she get older...



Thanks Charlie, although your "girl" is the best of the bunch!

PS I can't remember putting tape on the back of Voodoo Woman but I guess I did. Doh!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 12:18:02 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Offline CSM

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #388 on: October 24, 2012, 01:58:41 PM »
Blonde Ice is looking awesome backed
Chris

Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #389 on: October 30, 2012, 10:18:23 PM »
So I think I have the paper backing figured out... I've been researching it.  Basically you get a waterproof board and wheat paste holy-tex or dursan to the board then you wheat paste your paper backing to the holy-tex and then the poster to the paper backing....  I would imagine you then sandwich it under mylar and another board...  Or you let the holytex and paper dry flat to the board 1st or heck all at one time... 

That one is face up... Then there is another way where you use a board and place the poster face down then you place a wheat pasted paper lining over the back of the poster and onto the board underneath...  When dry there is an air gap between the paper and the board near the poster and you simply trim it out...   Although I think this one will not produce the flatter poster.

So I guess I need to find a melamine board and order some holytex...

guest8

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #390 on: October 31, 2012, 08:19:09 AM »
 pcorn

Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #391 on: November 02, 2012, 04:23:08 PM »
Let the pulpfixin era of fill compound begin... This is the first poster where I replaced missing paper with a cellulose compound... I also tested it for strength when rolled etc. and it does magically well... The cracks and missing paper were filled with compound and sanded smooth.  I later found out that if I add some calcium carbonate it will further aid in a smooth finish (next time!). Then we airbrushed the fills black with watercolors.

We have the faces and some touch up in the lettering left and done.

Before:



Almost Done...



This is where the fixative would make this one shine because it would eliminate the contrasts between the paper and matte watercolors...  That is how some restorers get them looking perfect....

Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #392 on: November 02, 2012, 04:27:19 PM »
pcorn

Got my board ready, ordered the holytex; and now wait...

I am also thinking that the adhesive (temporary) between the holytex and the board and the paper support and the holytex would be methylcellulose since it is weak while the adhesive between the poster and the paper support would be basic wheat paste...

This is so much fun!

Offline ATLfun

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #393 on: November 03, 2012, 08:43:46 PM »

 First, congrats on the big A&M win.  Secondly, you suck.  This thread is like the Masked Magician revealing all the secrets on how to make crappy posters look good.

  I was looking through the Heritage auction catalog tonight.  There were several linen posters that caught my eye.  But images of moldy pieces of crap, frankensteined back to life with water colors and glossy paste kept flashing in my head. 

  I am just having a hard time justifying several thousand on a poster where you do not know whether it had major or minor surgery.   ;D

Brian
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Dread_Pirate_Mel

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #394 on: November 03, 2012, 09:13:42 PM »
  I was looking through the Heritage auction catalog tonight.  There were several linen posters that caught my eye.  But images of moldy pieces of crap, frankensteined back to life with water colors and glossy paste kept flashing in my head.  


Not sure but I believe restoration can easily be detected with ultraviolet light.  You'll notice all the descriptions of linen-backed posters precisely describe the restoration.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 09:13:58 PM by Dread_Pirate_Mel »

Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #395 on: November 03, 2012, 09:16:40 PM »
First, congrats on the big A&M win.  Secondly, you suck.  This thread is like the Masked Magician revealing all the secrets on how to make crappy posters look good.

  I was looking through the Heritage auction catalog tonight.  There were several linen posters that caught my eye.  But images of moldy pieces of crap, frankensteined back to life with water colors and glossy paste kept flashing in my head. 

  I am just having a hard time justifying several thousand on a poster where you do not know whether it had major or minor surgery.   ;D

Brian

Yepper Alabama may have a game on their hands next week....

Well I would say as long as they are not sprayed with a varnish/fixative to eliminate contrast you should be able to see most work...  But yes if you get the colors right and spray it, it is pretty tough.  A while back I bought this UV marker and always thought that the more reputable restorers should place a number of reference on the poster so that a buyer can look up a before picture of the backed poster.  But sometimes I think that there are some restorers (not anyone on this forum) that thrive by hiding the fixes - if it looks good it must be a good restoration. 

I am now learning some of the reasons Dario was the way he was when I first started...  True Conservation/Restoration vs. Looking Great doesn't always equal...  For example, true conservation may (and perhaps should; as my opinions develop) be no where close to what the modern restorer does...  I think all you really need is some Japanese mending paper and a good heat press...  You bathe the poster in various solutions (you can actually mend before if you use warm water) and mend the tears from behind with mending tissue for support; then press it and done. All this touch up business is crazy - why not just buy a reprint if you want it perfect...

There are some cases where you have to support, but the touch ups are not really the right idea (conservation/museum stuff)...  I wonder if museums touch up posters?  It's like polluting the natural state of the object... It is what it is, why not leave it that way...  But that is not what makes the $$$...

       

Matt

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #396 on: November 03, 2012, 09:42:23 PM »
I take my linen backed posters outside in the natural light, if I can't see any restoration on the face of the poster I flip it over and hold it in a direct line with the sun.  You'll make out any work done. Even if they have used a brush or an air brush. You can see the difference.

Keep up the good work Charlie, you're coming along in leaps and bounds. thumbup

Bruce

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #397 on: November 04, 2012, 06:26:53 AM »
" I am just having a hard time justifying several thousand on a poster where you do not know whether it had major or minor surgery."

Great point! I am currently auctioning several posters where the buyers who bought them elsewhere were MASSIVELY deceived as to the extent of the restoration.

"Not sure but I believe restoration can easily be detected with ultraviolet light."


This is NOT true, Mel. The "bad guys" are incredibly sophisticated. Remember that millions of dollars of fakes were easily sold a short time ago and fooled almost all the top "experts", dealers, auctioneers and collectors. And the person who created them is still in business and still used extensively by a certain element.

"all the descriptions of linen-backed posters precisely describe the restoration."

"Precisely" is far too strong a word. Get some of these posters, look at them super closely and then see if you still feel that the defects and their restoration were precisely described. I think you will find that a LOT of posters have had entire areas (the whole title, or the whole background, etc) painted over "to even it out", and this will rarely be described in the condition description.

"if they are not sprayed with a varnish/fixative to eliminate contrast"

This IS done a lot, and it makes it ten times harder to see what has been done. I have sometimes returned posters to consignors because they have been SO "worked over" that I really have trouble saying exactly what was done to it, and I don't want to auction any poster I feel that way about!

"I wonder if museums touch up posters?  It's like polluting the natural state of the object"


When I did the Christie's auctions, the often unsophisticated buyers there wanted the posters to look great (sometimes they would say "I would buy that expensive poster but it has some tears in the borders" and then they would buy some super worked over backed piece that "looked" great!). Whenever it made financial sense I used an incredible museum restorer who did fine art paintings. They would ONLY replace missing areas ("voids") and would not paint over existing areas unless it was something like a stain that could not come out, and then they would ONLY paint over the stain. They considered techniques like painting over the borders, or the title letters to be butchering the restoration.

"I take my linen backed posters outside in the natural light, if I can't see any restoration on the face of the poster I flip it over and hold it in a direct line with the sun.  You'll make out any work done. Even if they have used a brush or an air brush. You can see the difference."


This is true for many posters, but not all, as I point out above. But it is certainly a great starting point.

Good discussion!


Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #398 on: November 05, 2012, 03:41:12 PM »
Ok I finally figured it out...  My wife and I have been trying our best to figure out the mediums these guys are using to make these posters perfect...  

I am now convince that they all use acrylic paints when airbrushing...
 Even Poster Mountain...  My understanding is that this is only for airbrushing and is at the request of the client.  I also believe one restorer is using a acrylic resin based varnish from Golden to mix with his water colors.  The Varnish is reversible using solvents...  But PM is using both Createx and COM-ART - as I see the bottles on their blog...  Probably all of them are using acrylics...

Else they use watercolor pencils and blocks w/ water and brush.

I am also convinced that there is no practical way to produce the dramatic cover-ups and results with standard water colors...  The only success I have had is with a mixture of Gouache and Gum Arabic to create an opaque finish.

That is all for now I have a meeting... Discuss...
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 04:15:10 PM by Charlie »

Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #399 on: November 05, 2012, 08:40:54 PM »
So I know some opinions are that if you are getting a poster restored, then who cares...  I am finding this quite disturbing because acrylics are highly irreversible...  That perfectly restored poster you just bought is paper and plastic...  :o

I don't know just seems that most restorers laud about everything they do being reversible when this seems like a semi-truth.  Only reversible if you instruct us to only use water colors and to keep the airbrush in its holster...  And then you might not be happy with it because reversible doesn't do much!

Which then brings us back in a circle to what is conservation and restoration?

To tell you the truth, I am pretty close to pitching all the paints and pencils and just doing the conservation.  What do they call that? European style!  8)