Author Topic: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin  (Read 209888 times)

guest4251

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #650 on: September 17, 2014, 06:50:23 PM »
That's Crazy! These are two completely different words. I would assume most collectors knew this?

Conservation is, stop deterioration, maintain the paper. Restoration is cosmetics. The only  restoration approach that I would use the word Conservation is when I do a Museum/conservation mend. Kozo/Mulberry tissue, Methyl cellulose and a piece of vintage paper to fill a spot or mend a tear. That is it.

It's been seventeen years now of Linen Backing and restoration. I have seen everything. Here's a interesting fact. Over the years gotten poster that true Conservators/book binder been Linen backing and restoring.  They been backed pretty OK, but since they are really conservators. They will only do Conservation/museum mends. Which is fine, but these collectors was not happy with the results. They sent the poster to me to complete the work. Make them look more flush and representable. ( I don't particularly care to work on others mess )

Majority of these poster are from Euro, especially UK. I guess a lack of talented Linen backer/restorers and trust worthy folks???

I restore for Collectors, dealers, galleries and auctions. 98 % want the complete look. A very few and far in between ask for just Museum/conservation mend.

The very few times I have been asked to do only Museum/conservation mend on posters. I usually get the "Dario I should have listen to you" when they get the poster back.
 
If I, Poster Mountain, Studio C and so on would only do pure Museum/conservation mend with vintage paper, we would all close shop.

I started collecting in 1983 the culture that a poster should be restored to look as good as possible was in full swing before that. So I don' know when it started.

We have certainly toned down over the year with " Less is more approach.

Dario.

Offline erik1925

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #651 on: September 17, 2014, 11:22:00 PM »
Agree with you Dario on this. To say that all poster collectors have been led to believe that conservation is restoration (ie: they are one in the same), as a blanket statement, i would have to respectfully disagree with. Especially with collectors who veer more towards vintage material from the early decades that in many cases will need some kind of conservation work done to them (deacidifying, washing, buffering and stabilizing fold splits or countering acid burn damage) before any kind of cosmetic restoration work is even considered.

Yes, pure restoration can be done without the need for any kind of conservation. A folded, modern poster might be an example of this, where the folds have caused ink breaks that have made the poster look like a checker board. This poster can be backed (linen or gel) and those fold lines touched up, without the need for conservation measures to be taken prior to this being done.

It's all about learning, in this, or any hobby. And for those that thought the 2 terms meant the same thing.. now they know that they are not related in the least. And that's a good thing.  ;)

But all good restorers that I have either dealt or spoken with have always understood the difference and explained their methods and steps to conserve, stabilize and "rescue" the paper first. They have knowledge and expertise in this area, as well.

The cosmetic part (the restoration) is always discussed in Part 2 of that same conversation.

As a personal example -- I have a French poster from the mid '30s that i took to have conserved - nothing more. The paper was brittle and overly tanned due to the acid content of the paper. I told the restorer that I wanted NO restoration, but simply wanted the poster washed, buffered, de-acidified and backed, as it was almost impossible to handle in its current condition. That is exactly what was done with this poster. Even a missing upper right corner was left as is.. in a way, reflecting and respecting the life this poster has led since 1936, coming from pre-war France.

The restorer knew, understood and did exactly what I wanted.  thumbup





-Jeff

Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #652 on: September 18, 2014, 07:48:22 AM »
Good Morning,

I have to kindly disagree with both of you.  Collector use the two terms loosely.  "Are you going to have it restored?"  "Are you going to get it backed?"  No one says "Are you going to have it conserved?"   But in the first two (I will step down from all) most collectors assume that restoration and linenbacking including conservation practices.  I think it is obvious collectors care about the posters and them being conserved/protected.  Think back to all the storage discussions framing question and UV worries...  The problem is when it comes to restoration everyone is pretty much uneducated.  Why do you think this thread has 34K views...   Restorer's are like foxes the hen house - collectors are easy targets. I also don't think we should be purely talking about a museum mends.  You can have varying degrees of conservation practices with a standard backing and restoration that aren't even being done.  

Like I said "conservation priority restoration".  This would be a great poll I may throw up.

I will admit before I started my linenbacking journey I was one whom thought that these studios did both, that restoration implied conservation.  Or at least that restoration was done with a conservation priority.  But once I learned more realize this is not the case but think thought they should do both - which can be accomplished.  Hence the many "this guy uses this and that guy uses that"...  But I think the main problem is that collectors are sending their posters to these studios and thinking they will last forever because they have been restored with conservation in mind...  John Reid a collector and dealer was shocked when his posters were jacked up from clearly an non-conservation approach.  And now thinks wall paper paste is better than wheat paste even after being told by a director of paper conservation that was not the case.  

And Dario... Your website even states "restoration and/or conservation".  So you can get a restoration with conservation or just conservation.  Both say conservation.

Our movie posters restorer's sell conservation and restoration but skip the conservation (I don't want to lump everyone below into this statement so I have stricken through it).  See below:

Poster Mountain

We are specialists in addressing all paper conservation needs and employ a staff of highly educated and skilled technicians and artists. Our breadth of expertise includes the finest quality linen backing, museum paper mounting, numerous laboratory conservation treatments and cosmetic restoration for posters, documents, photographs and works of fine and commercial art.

Studio C

Studio C pioneered the conservation, preservation and restoration industry, setting the standards which others studios try to achieve even today.

Backing to the Future

Linen backing is commonly an accepted form of preservation and restoration of original vintage movie posters, especially those that were shipped to the theatres folded.

Dario's

Paper conservation, poster restoration and linen backing is what Dario Casadei does best and for the past 15 years collectors around the world have continued to trust him to restore their vintage posters to their former glory, from simple paper stabilization to linen backing posters as well as full poster restoration and/or conservation services.

Lumiere Poster

Lumiere Poster Restoration is dedicated to the reparation and preservation of movie posters and other collectible art.

Jamie Mendez Restoration & Conservation

Avid collectors seek out Jaime for the top quality of his work and his dedication to the preservation of memorabilia. It is important to understand the emotional as well as the monetary value of collectibles. Many of these items have extraordinary social and artistic merit, and a museum quality restoration by Jaime Mendez will preserve them for all time.

Poster Plus

Under the Conservation Tab: Conservation and Restoration - Poster Plus began doing poster conservation work in 1975 for our own vintage inventory, and since 1989 our services have been widely used by collectors, galleries and museums.

Poster Conservation

Can't copy the text - read this...  http://www.posterconservation.com/index2.php#/info1/1/  Called poster conservation but does restoration... hmmmm...

The Affiche Studio

Seems to be the only one that separated conservation and linenbacking from restoration...  http://www.affichestudio.com/services--prices

Precision Restoration

Doesn't even mention conservation.



« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 09:38:11 AM by Charlie »

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #653 on: September 18, 2014, 09:07:10 AM »
Collector use the two terms loosely.  "Are you going to have it restored?"  "Are you going to get it backed?"  No one says "Are you going to have it conserved?"   But in the first two (I will step down from all) most collectors assume that restoration and linenbacking including conservation practices.

I agree with this 100%.  When I send something off to be "backed" or "restored" my assumption is that it is also being conserved for long-term preservation.  It's more than a little disconcerting to find out this isn't always the case and/or that there doesn't appear to be any sort of standardization across the industry.  I definitely appreciate Charlie's Herculean effort to learn the process and share his results so publicly.  I have  for one have learned a TON through his writings!

That said, I also appreciate Dario's concern that restorers need to provide the services that customers demand.  They surely would go out of business otherwise.  I also know that Dario is known for being a more informative and helpful than most (explanation of steps, in-progress photos, etc...).  It helps to have someone hold your hand through this process... 

It sounds like customers need to start demanding more information AND restorers need to volunteer more as well -- even if it isn't being requested outright.  As Charlie pointed out, most customers probably do not think they need to formally request full "conservation" treatments.  Customers should also be made aware if any restoration will be irreversible -- before the work is completed of course!  That is definitely *not* standard practice in my experience. 

Do we have a list of what sort of restoration techniques are irreversible?  Airbrushing is the big one that comes to mind. 

Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #654 on: September 18, 2014, 09:46:07 AM »
I also know that Dario is known for being a more informative and helpful than most (explanation of steps, in-progress photos, etc...).  It helps to have someone hold your hand through this process... 

I too agree Dario had been very informative.  Based on what I know from our conversations, Dario meets much of what I consider the "Conservation Priority Restoration" definition.  I don't know all his wet work methods (although I am sure he uses purified/deionized water) but he has indicated the use of a conservation grade wheat paste (even told me which one to buy when I started). And even though he does use permanent mediums, he has indicated that they start with an archival base component from Golden.  He is pretty much the only restorer I have and will recommend but he doesn't do large format so you have to go with someone else.  I don't think we will ever see these guys disclose their process in their entirety, as it would only help generate competition.  Maybe the best thing to do is develop a "conservation priority restoration" checklist for collectors... 

Offline CSM

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #655 on: September 18, 2014, 10:40:16 AM »
Charlie - why isn't Posterfix's mission statement included in your listing?  :D :D
Chris

Offline CSM

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #656 on: September 18, 2014, 10:41:04 AM »
I agree with this 100%.  When I send something off to be "backed" or "restored" my assumption is that it is also being conserved for long-term preservation. 

This is certainly generally what I would be expecting as well...conservation followed by restoration
Chris

Offline Neo

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #657 on: September 18, 2014, 11:17:14 AM »

When I send something off to be "backed" or "restored" my assumption is that it is also being conserved for long-term preservation.  It's more than a little disconcerting to find out this isn't always the case and/or that there doesn't appear to be any sort of standardization across the industry.  I definitely appreciate Charlie's Herculean effort to learn the process and share his results so publicly.  I have  for one have learned a TON through his writings!


I really don't think one can expect there to be any standardization across the industry.  It's just the type of work that can't be fully disclosed, for various reasons.  

I agree, that Charlie sharing his knowledge about the science of this stuff, and pointing out what others have done/may be currently doing, is very interesting and informative.



Personally, I think that well-respected, conscientious linen backing folks who own/work for their respective businesses do have a fairly high level of conservation in mind.  To what extent each person/business leans more toward conservation than restoration, or vice versa, I can't say since I'm not an expert on the topic, and I don't know exactly what they are doing.  However, I think it's safe to say that most of these guys would not be in business if they are consistently doing work that results in items that are not conserved to a fairly high standard.  

I understand that the terms "conservation" and "restoration" technically have different meanings, but I'm sure that, as has been stated, many use the words somewhat interchangeably.  Although some say they are "restoring" stuff, it is just understood that they are also utilizing "conservation" methods on those items.

The part that is a little unnerving to some, is that there are "secret" or "proprietary" methods that the businesses don't share with their customers.  Part of me thinks that's OK, because if a company detailed every little bit of their methods, then others could easily swoop in and basically steal all the knowledge that has been accrued over numerous years, or generations, and then use that information to make their own business.  The other part of me wants to know what methods they're using, and to what level of conservation they are employing.  Some of these items appear rarely, and maybe never again, so it would be nice to know what people are doing when they conserve/restore them, but one also has to respect their privacy concerns.

The "conservation priority restoration checklist" sounds like an interesting idea.  Although it wouldn't be entirely accurate, since many items surely do not undergo the same methods of treatment from each company (certain items may receive different levels of care, practices evolve, etc.), not to mention that unless there's a video of the entire process, on each item, it's impossible to know exactly what was/is done.  It would be interesting to have a list showing what some of the guys have done in the past, and may have a tendency to do in the future.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 11:19:55 AM by NeoLoco »

Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #658 on: September 18, 2014, 11:50:16 AM »
I really don't think one can expect there to be any standardization across the industry.  It's just the type of work that can't be fully disclosed, for various reasons.  


Why not? Everything is already out there.  Let me be the first to say there are no magic tricks.  Techniques maybe, but not methods.  If a colorblind engineer from Texas can figure it out... The problem will be that in order to conform to a "Conservation Priority Restoration" standard, backers would have to admit they currently don't use best practices for conservation.  Can you imagine the backlash from that?  And I am sure they will sell you the non-conservation methods as sound.  And what are you going to do?  Argue with them...   

If I find time, I will write the standard with sources.  I am sure that it will be controversial probably debunked by the top restorers, but remember this - I have no skin in the game.  I won't stand to make or lose money.  I have no disclosures.


Offline erik1925

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #659 on: September 18, 2014, 02:39:37 PM »
Here's a clip directly related to this discussion of conservation (or lack thereof) and restoration of posters (in this case a map) being linen backed and then various fold breaks being retouched and restored. Important to note is that no other conservation steps were done to the paper before this map was backed (aside from the backing itself). The wheat paste adhesive is applied directly to the dry pieces of the map (tho he does spritz water on one section- and maybe he did them all that way.. but who knows).

After being laid on linen, the woman is shown retouching the fold breaks and other areas, with her loose pencils and tin can laying on the item directly. This must be a Posterfix trademarked maneuver.  :-X  After the work is done, every fold break is clearly visible, even tho, prior to it being put back together, the various edges did not look any more discolored/tanned than the body of each separate piece.

Did the owner of this map know, that aside from it being backed, no other proprietary steps were taken to conserve this map? Or was he under the assumption it would be done during the entire process? Or was he told?

This is why any collector should have a thorough discussion with his/her restorer - to ask and find out exactly what will be done (or what they want done) to their piece during the conservation and restoration processes.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/h0hUHJD9pHk&amp;list=UUXpVx0HP7dOVMnZNOLDIEwA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/h0hUHJD9pHk&amp;list=UUXpVx0HP7dOVMnZNOLDIEwA</a>



-Jeff

Offline CSM

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #660 on: September 18, 2014, 03:54:09 PM »
And why any collector should do some research (thereby avoiding Posterfux completely) prior to entrusting someone with their property...
Chris

Offline erik1925

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #661 on: September 18, 2014, 04:25:10 PM »
And I figured if anyone might be guilty of this (as well as showing it), it would be Posterfix, based on his other clips. But the main purpose was to show an example of what was being discussed earlier.


-Jeff

guest4251

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #662 on: September 18, 2014, 04:29:44 PM »
When Dave and I designed our web page www.vintagemovieart.ca we wanted it to be user friendly, informative.

 I think the mission statement on the front page is great. I would think it would make sense to most?

If you want just conservation. I'll wash your poster, buffer and so on. That is it.

If you want Conservation and restoration. I'll wash your poster, buffer and so on + I will restore your posters missing pieces, roughed up borders and what else is needed?

Best,
dario.



Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #663 on: September 18, 2014, 05:19:47 PM »
When Dave and I designed our web page www.vintagemovieart.ca we wanted it to be user friendly, informative.

 I think the mission statement on the front page is great. I would think it would make sense to most?

If you want just conservation. I'll wash your poster, buffer and so on. That is it.

If you want Conservation and restoration. I'll wash your poster, buffer and so on + I will restore your posters missing pieces, roughed up borders and what else is needed?

Best,
dario.




IMO, I don't think anyone should worry about anything they send to you, Dario.  I think you have a conservation mentality and like I said have and will recommend your services.

But you made the statement "The only restoration approach that I would use the word Conservation is when I do a Museum/conservation mend." which is a contradiction to your opening website statement and your last post.  Especially, if it is more of a rarity than just restoration.  It gets confusing for us collectors.

I think this is actually a great example.  My point in my upfront statement is that the two words are used together and can give a collector the idea that restoration includes conservation.  Even when this is not what a restorer means and assume collectors understand the difference.  Even more so, you point out two phases here in your last post: conservation and then restoration.  I have full faith in your methods and abilities to conserve and then do image restoration.  But like the posterfix video, are all restorer's doing this?

I am not trying to attack you, just point out the obvious. Even with one of the best restorers in the hobby, we can not clearly understand that these two words are different. 

However, I do know what you are trying to say.  Conservation alone is the "museum mend".  Restoration is, hopefully (for all restorers), a two phase approach with conservation and then image restoration.    But I go back to terminology.  Would is be better to say "Conservation Priority Restoration"...  I mean Dario, what is the best way to imply that a restoration is not just what Posterfix did to that map.  How do restorer's imply the two phase approach without confusing us?


guest4251

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #664 on: September 19, 2014, 01:44:40 AM »
Yeaah Charlie, sorry! It is not for me to comment on other restorers work/videos. If you guys have questions with what you see, you would have to ask Chris.

The only restorer I worry about is me. Make sure I don't take on to much work, Keep my sanity in check ( I get some extremely difficult stuff to work on ) Trying some new approach to backings and resto and so on.

I mentioned how I feel about Conservation and restoration I think they are two different terms that certainly go hand in hand to fix a poster up, but could also be used individually.

Conservation always comes before restoration. Doh.gif One have to clean and scrub and buffer the poster first. Then, when it is dry on the rack we can do restoration. thumbsup.gif

I love my web site. I personally don't think anything is confusing and I am not going to change anything or second guess my friend and partners work.

Dave's done an amazing job.

Best,
dario.





Offline erik1925

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #665 on: September 19, 2014, 02:11:33 AM »
Yeaah Charlie, sorry! It is not for me to comment on other restorers work/videos. If you guys have questions with what you see, you would have to ask Chris.

The only restorer I worry about is me. Make sure I don't take on to much work, Keep my sanity in check ( I get some extremely difficult stuff to work on ) Trying some new approach to backings and resto and so on.

I mentioned how I feel about Conservation and restoration I think they are two different terms that certainly go hand in hand to fix a poster up, but could also be used individually.

Conservation always comes before restoration. Doh.gif One have to clean and scrub and buffer the poster first. Then, when it is dry on the rack we can do restoration. thumbsup.gif

I love my web site. I personally don't think anything is confusing and I am not going to change anything or second guess my friend and partners work.

Dave's done an amazing job.

Best,
dario.


 clap clap clap


-Jeff

Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #666 on: September 19, 2014, 08:23:58 AM »
Yeaah Charlie, sorry! It is not for me to comment on other restorers work/videos. If you guys have questions with what you see, you would have to ask Chris.

The only restorer I worry about is me. Make sure I don't take on to much work, Keep my sanity in check ( I get some extremely difficult stuff to work on ) Trying some new approach to backings and resto and so on.

I mentioned how I feel about Conservation and restoration I think they are two different terms that certainly go hand in hand to fix a poster up, but could also be used individually.

Conservation always comes before restoration. Doh.gif One have to clean and scrub and buffer the poster first. Then, when it is dry on the rack we can do restoration. thumbsup.gif

I love my web site. I personally don't think anything is confusing and I am not going to change anything or second guess my friend and partners work.

Dave's done an amazing job.

Best,
dario.







Good enough for me...

gargoyle67

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #667 on: September 22, 2014, 09:23:52 AM »
I will also jump in and say that having multiple sets and water color blocks also help out when the Faber-Castell's don't match up...

We have a bunch of pencils bought individually from this set:



We have this set:


I've got some Caran D'Ache Artists colours water soluble pencils coming, I just want to do some minor touch up on some of my posters, Are they ok for my needs or should I invest in Faber-Castell ? And why Faber ? Better range of shades ?
I'm also wondering if I should bother touching up the fold lines as I don't intend on having any of them Linen backed.

Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #668 on: September 22, 2014, 02:47:08 PM »
I've got some Caran D'Ache Artists colours water soluble pencils coming, I just want to do some minor touch up on some of my posters, Are they ok for my needs or should I invest in Faber-Castell ? And why Faber ? Better range of shades ?
I'm also wondering if I should bother touching up the fold lines as I don't intend on having any of them Linen backed.

I really think you are ok.  After some back and forth with Dario on these I did some intensive research on water soluble wax which is "Polyethylene Glycol". 

http://stainsfile.info/StainsFile/prepare/process/carbowax.htm

Polyethylene glycol is actually used in conservation of wood materials. 

Here is the study:  http://www.academia.edu/313572/A_comparative_study_of_consolidants_for_waterlogged_wood_polyethylene_glycol_sucrose_and_silicone_oil

Here are some exerts:

It is the most popular choice for conserving waterlogged wood.

PEG is reusable, non-toxic and can be later safely removed from an object. It is recommended artifacts thus preserved be stored at RH levels below 60% but other wise they will require little by way of post-treatment.

Here is more:  http://ellencarrlee.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/what-do-we-know-about-peg/   This talks about it's reaction with irons.  If heated it may darken, so you shouldn't heat it up after on the poster.

Been used since the 1859 for furniture conservation.  Also for it to be a solid it has to be of higher >1000 which means the less water can be absorbed.  I find no statements of the possibility of staining.  One drawback since it is water soluble is storage conditions - high humidity  (>60%) may effect the material.

In fact it has a bunch of positives like aging much better that the wood itself...  It covers better than watercolors and can be buffed to match sheen.

Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #669 on: September 22, 2014, 02:53:20 PM »
And why Faber ? Better range of shades ?

Let's make one thing clear you would want Faber Castell Albrecht Durer Watercolor Pencils

They are the best watercolors available.  I can't find the study but they leave the finest grains compared to others.  Plus they have a bunch of shades too.


I'm also wondering if I should bother touching up the fold lines as I don't intend on having any of them Linen backed.

If you intend to have a poster backed, I would not touch up the folds. Because in the wash, these colors will have to be removed.  It should be fine, but you never know what may happen.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 02:53:59 PM by Charlie »

Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #670 on: September 22, 2014, 03:39:04 PM »
If the restorer was going to touch up the fold lines anyway, why would the colors need to be fully removed if it was backed?  If you were trying to get it back to the original state with no touch up, then I could understand.  But if it was simply going to be put on linen and touched up, I don't see why it's a problem if they don't come out completely -- as long as the restorer was made aware ahead of time that they were water-soluble archival pigments.

I'm not trying to nitpick... I'm genuinely curious as I've been toying with the idea of touching up fold lines on some of my unbacked posters as well.  Take this Aussie Halloween 1-sheet for example:



The paper is so glossy for this poster that the ink is broken badly along the folds on every copy I've come across.  And mine is actually one of the nicest un-backed examples I've ever seen.  I'd hate to "restore" (i.e. linen back) it unnecessarily, but I've been thinking about flattening it (as we've discussed -- raising RH, sandwich between hollytex and blotting paper, press flat) and then touching up the folds.  None of that would be damaging to the long-term integrity of the poster, correct?   And if someone wanted to, it could always be linen-backed and re-touched up or (as you said requiring more effort) the water colors could be removed completely for a "European" style backing. 

I guess I'm mainly wondering what the downsides are of touching up the folds on non-backed posters?

Offline CSM

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #671 on: September 22, 2014, 03:46:29 PM »
Is it not possible that - depending on what was used to touch up the fold lines - the colours could run during the backing process?
Chris

Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #672 on: September 22, 2014, 04:15:45 PM »
If the restorer was going to touch up the fold lines anyway, why would the colors need to be fully removed if it was backed?  If you were trying to get it back to the original state with no touch up, then I could understand.  But if it was simply going to be put on linen and touched up, I don't see why it's a problem if they don't come out completely -- as long as the restorer was made aware ahead of time that they were water-soluble archival pigments.

I'm not trying to nitpick... I'm genuinely curious as I've been toying with the idea of touching up fold lines on some of my unbacked posters as well.  Take this Aussie Halloween 1-sheet for example:



The paper is so glossy for this poster that the ink is broken badly along the folds on every copy I've come across.  And mine is actually one of the nicest un-backed examples I've ever seen.  I'd hate to "restore" (i.e. linen back) it unnecessarily, but I've been thinking about flattening it (as we've discussed -- raising RH, sandwich between hollytex and blotting paper, press flat) and then touching up the folds.  None of that would be damaging to the long-term integrity of the poster, correct?   And if someone wanted to, it could always be linen-backed and re-touched up or (as you said requiring more effort) the water colors could be removed completely for a "European" style backing. 

I guess I'm mainly wondering what the downsides are of touching up the folds on non-backed posters?

I misread the post to say "Should I touch them up before sending for backing."  Just a total miss on my part.

And maybe my use of words weren't the best.  In regards to backing, it doesn't really matter if you touch it up or not as long as they are water soluble.  They will get removed in the wash/soak if done.  Now, if you go ChrisClotier style, they will run.  The backer will also have to be careful to not let the pigment settle in the wash as well.  It's not a big deal... 

However, if you noticed that when you touch one up, you tend to have to tease the folds or wet them. This can weaken the fold lines. Another con.

But if you just want to touch them up and then have them backed years from now it should be fine.

Offline Charlie

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #673 on: September 22, 2014, 04:17:34 PM »
the water colors could be removed completely for a "European" style backing. 


I will say that I don't think unless the poster is bleached that all the pigment will come out in the wash.  Even with a good wash there will still be some color trapped in the paper.

gargoyle67

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Re: Amateur Linenbacking 101 by Pulpfixin
« Reply #674 on: September 22, 2014, 04:23:47 PM »
@Charlie,
Thanks for your in depth reply, I'll see how I go with color matching my Caran D'Ache, I see some more money being spent in the future on a 120 set of Faber Castell Albrecht Durer  :P
Your thread is amazing btw I spent Sunday morning reading through it thumbsup.gif
@CSM/Charlie
If it's water soluble won't it just lift off and dilute into the water during a wash ? We're not talking about a load of color here, it's going to be minimal no ?  (Just noticed your answer to Harry on this, Nice)
Also Charlie what do you recommend to buff the colors ?