Author Topic: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!  (Read 11075 times)

Offline greysm

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Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« on: March 15, 2012, 02:40:41 PM »
Almost 1200 lots of the best in vintage movie posters will be auctioned next week by Heritage Auctions on Friday the 23 of March and Saturday the 24 of March. www.HA.com/7055

All great lots now online and bidding is in progress.


« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 06:25:42 PM by erik1925 »

Offline enki

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2012, 11:37:10 PM »
Definitely some nice posters I would love to get, but their Buyers Premium makes me sick.

Charlie

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 01:04:15 AM »
Definitely some nice posters I would love to get, but their Buyers Premium makes me sick.

I used to think this but after a good deal of observation I actually think you get better deals on ha because some shy away from the BP...  in the end you should just factor in the BP and bid accordingly...

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2012, 03:22:10 PM »
I used to think this but after a good deal of observation I actually think you get better deals on ha because some shy away from the BP...  in the end you should just factor in the BP and bid accordingly...

Yup, what he said.
David


Bruce

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2012, 05:25:56 PM »
That's true. It is the SELLERS who pay far higher commissions.

Bruce

Offline greysm

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 02:24:10 PM »
How so, Bruce?
I know that you charge a rather high percentage for items that sell for less than $10, 20, 30 and on.
Our fee is a flat fee with no other charges! There are no photo fees, insurance fees, etc.
I think the math is pretty simple and there is the fact that the posters will likely be seen by a very large buying audience.
Often those that would not normally bid on just posters.

The buyer's premium is a very simple thing as well as I have said before on this forum, all you need do is include into your bidding. We show you that BP with each bid online.

Bruce

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 02:46:54 PM »
Tell me what percentage you charge sellers who send you items that sell for $15 to $1,000+, and I will do a comparison chart comparing what sellers pay when they consign to you vs when they consign to us.

I would be really surprised if there is even one price point where the seller pays less through you than they do through us.

So how much do you charge a seller who sends you five $1,000 posters or 50 $100 posters, or 300 $15 posters (ones that hammer for $1, plus $14 buyers premium), etc? Is there a chart on your site as there is on ours? If so, point me to it, please.

Thanks!

Bruce

Offline greysm

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 03:15:04 PM »
Bruce, I believe you are fully aware of what we charge.
I do believe you misstate when you claim you charge less.

Bruce

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2012, 03:18:32 PM »
Honestly, I have no idea. Is there a place on your site that says what sellers pay in commission on their sales? I can search your site, but wouldn't it be easier for you to tell me where it is (or if it is not on your site, to tell me what they are)?

I think you are incorrect about charging less, so obviously this is a golden opportunity to set the record straight, but I can' do so unless I know what you charge sellers.

Bruce

Offline enki

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 03:50:01 PM »
The buyer's premium is a very simple thing as well as I have said before on this forum, all you need do is include into your bidding. We show you that BP with each bid online.

True, but by that same rationalization, it still hurts the seller in the end.

Let's say I consign something to HA that is worth $20. A buyer isn't going to want to spend more then $6 for it, since it has a $14 (233%) buyers premium. So that means that the selling price is less then a third of what it's value is. Based on a quick bit of research, it looks like the consignment fee at Heritage is 15% of the selling price (is that accurate?). That means that, BEFORE all other ancillary expenses, the net return is just $5.10.

On the other hand, selling the same poster through EMP would be more likely to have a final selling price of $20, since there is no buyers premium to contend with. While that would incur a 50% consignment fee, the net return would be $10, which is almost double the return to the seller.

So on lower priced items, the difference is extremely pronounced.

The same holds true for more expensive items. Let's say there's a $1000 poster. Going by the same logic, it would only sell for $836.82, subtract the 15% consignment fee, leaves $711.30.  On the EMP side, the $1000 poster would sell for $1000, minus a 20% consignment fee, leaving $800 - $88.70 more.

Based on the fluctuating consignment rates at EMP, there might be a "sweet spot" where HA would have a better overall return (all things being equal), but in at least the majority of cases, EMP's no buyers premium has an advantage. The combination of 15% and 19.5% (which can be significantly higher for cheaper posters) effectively turns the HA commission into a 34.5% average.

Now granted, there are other factors at play that have a major impact as well. Will some buyers ignore the premium and bid at full value anyway? Will HA have a better audience for some posters? Will HA ever "bigger spenders" who can afford to pay more on average for certain posters? I don't know, but it's possible, and if so could mitigate things a little.

But personally, I dislike Buyers Premiums as a buyer, and certainly would as a seller.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 03:51:05 PM by enki »

Bruce

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 04:40:51 PM »
enki

You just saved me a huge amount of time!

A couple of added comments:

1) We have gone through this before, and Grey's response at that time was that their way the seller and the buyer SHARE the fees, whereas we put ALL the fees on the seller! This SOUNDS good, but it doesn't alter the actuality that OUR buyers get more back when an item is sold for the same price.

2) If there is ANY "sweet spot" where their fees are less, I have not found it, and I want to know where it is!

3) As to who gets more, it would take an exhaustive study to see, and even then it would not be definitive, because we ALWAYS remove any items where the consignor was not paid, and given that so many of their items return over and over again, that seems to not be the case with them. But both of us clearly have buyers who prefer to deal with one of us over the other, and I see no clear advantage to either place. But I do see a huge advantage for both places over eBay (for the most part).

4) We are the only people who can auction very large collections in a timely fashion, because we auction 2,000-2,500 items every week. And we can auction entire collections that include large amounts of inexpensive material, as so many collections contain.

Bruce

Offline enki

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2012, 05:29:12 PM »
Ok, so I decided to do a little more math to determine if there is actually a 'sweet spot' for Heritage.

The short answer is....no.

The reasoning is due to the fact that the Buyers Premium is not a straight percentage across the board, but is only a minimum of 19.5%. Anything  selling with a closing price of less than $73.68 means that the $14 minimum BP kicks in, which will raise the effective Buyers Premium percentage as the selling price decreases. As such, the closer you get to $0 from $73.68, the higher the percentage goes, which would actually negate any penalization EMP incorporates into their tiers for cheaper posters.

The highest consignment fee EMP levies is 75%, which is only items that sell for $0.01-$7.99. But that's irrelevant here, since it's highly unlikely that anyone would:
a) consign such a cheap poster to Heritage.
b) purchase a poster at that price range, while paying a $14 BP on top of the purchase price.

The earlier comment made by greysm was that buyers would/should/do just subtract the BP from the value of the poster, but obviously that can't be done for items with a value <=$14. So, that eliminates the bottom two rungs at EMP, since they are clearly the "winner" of the cheapos.

The next consignment fee tier, and the first one applicable here, is the $12.00-$19.99 one, which has a 60% consignment fee at EMP. But, within that range, when you look at the total cost by selling an item via HA, the effective consignment fee through them would go from Infinity-85% respectively (with <=$14 representing infinity). At the $19.99 top end, the 85% would stem from the 70% BP plus the 15% seller's fee. And that's the LOWEST it would be in that price range, giving EMP a minimum 25% better return to the seller.

The next tier is $20.00-$29.99, with a 50% EMP rate. The comparative HA rate would be 85%-61.68% respectively. So again, EMP would have the better return in all cases.

The next tier is $30.00-$39.99, with a 40% EMP rate. The comparative HA rate would be 61.68%-50.008%. So again, EMP would have the better return in all cases.

Etc. Etc.

This same formula would continue until you reach the $73.68 price point, where the 19.5% BP becomes locked, creating an "effective rate" of about 34.5% combined. However, at that price point, EMP is tiered at 30%.

As the values in examples continues to raise, HA is still locked in this theoretical 34.5% combined rate, but EMP's consignment fee continues to go down, until eventually reaching 20% on the $1000+ items.

IF Heritage had a straight 19.5% BP, without the $14 minimum, then there would actually be a "Sweet Spot", and that would be for items $0-$70. But since they have the $14 minimum, that's a moot point.

Again, I will stipulate that this formula assumes that the buyer takes the BP into consideration when bidding, and considers it part of the total purchase price. It also assumes that the same poster would sell for the same price at both auction houses (BP included). But if both of these factors are accurate, then EMP is clearly a winner for sellers.

Note: Regarding the "combined rates" above, I'm fairly certain my numbers are slightly off since we're taking a percentage off of a percentage. I'm too lazy to do the math to get the precise figures since this is all just hypothetical, and the differences would be negligible and not effect the outcome of the "winner".
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 05:31:19 PM by enki »

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2012, 09:30:17 PM »
Too much to read, to summarise:

Prior to confirming your bid Heritage shows you what the final price will be INCLUDING the BP if that bid wins.

Budget accordingly.

However, as an aside why is what Heritage charge for selling such a secret? I have to say I have asked them (along with other questions) and that particular question was not answered
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 09:46:20 PM by Silhouette »
David


Offline wonka

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2012, 09:58:21 PM »
Prior to confirming your bid Heritage shows you what the final price will be INCLUDING the BP if that bid wins.

Budget accordingly.
"Ben. His name is Ben. But he's a Celtic fan, so Asshole will do too." -Thierry

Quote from: MoviePosterBid.com
I was mistaken,

Offline 50s

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2012, 10:39:58 PM »


I agree, I know how you feel (just by looking at you)...



Offline wonka

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2012, 10:41:17 PM »
I agree, I know how you feel (just by looking at you)...




?
"Ben. His name is Ben. But he's a Celtic fan, so Asshole will do too." -Thierry

Quote from: MoviePosterBid.com
I was mistaken,

Offline 50s

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2012, 11:34:36 PM »
?

You are posting without leaving a comment... must be tired  :P


Happy for anyone to posts links to the items they will be bidding on at Heritage. That will save me time finding the good stuff   ;)



Offline Silhouette

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2012, 04:26:58 AM »
You are posting without leaving a comment... must be tired  :P


Happy for anyone to posts links to the items they will be bidding on at Heritage. That will save me time finding the good stuff   ;)




My bids are in...will know soon enough if I sell another organ to pay for them. :-\
David


Offline 50s

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2012, 04:31:18 AM »
Even though internet bidding has closed, I think people can still bid online in the live floor auction using Heritage live?

What did you bid on David? ;)


Offline 50s

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2012, 05:17:41 AM »
Looking through the auction items, comparing posters I own that are also in the auction, the Heritage images all look more colour saturated/rich on my computer screen than mine in real life. I am thus wary of bidding, as I buy for the art. I just have to factor this in - using Google to see the poster on other sites what the poster likely looks like, or sales archives.

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Almost 1200 Lots of the Very Best in Vintage Movie Posters!!
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2012, 02:24:42 PM »
Even though internet bidding has closed, I think people can still bid online in the live floor auction using Heritage live?

What did you bid on David? ;)



No problems telling

I've replied in Klingon so those who would bid me up won't know:  chugh jIH ja' SoH jIH DIchDaq ghaj Daq HoH SoH

 ;D
David