Author Topic: Water Damage -- Do you concur?  (Read 5019 times)

scartacus

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Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« on: January 19, 2010, 02:54:01 PM »
So tomorrow I'm picking up a poster that's been backed and restored. The gallery owner who handled the work have told me that some water damage is not repairable. I received an interesting note from him which I am going to cut and paste below. Would you agree with his statement on water damage/bleaching?

"The unavoidable fact...is that stains on vintage paper whether water or solvent in origin are almost never completely removable on vintage paper.
 
We've had years of experience of poster restorers both UK and US and you need to be aware that some US backers in previous years have employed quick-fix make it look mint cowboy techniques (bleach, spray) that have come back to haunt the hobby there. These are not part of the arsenal of a responsible restorer, certainly not of a museum-trained conservator the kind we work with.

I've yet to meet a UK paper conservator who will use bleach on vintage paper. I even saw a warning posted on the use of bleach by a US restorer last year. Some of the border stains/spots were so dark on this poster that no amount of bleach would have removed them completely, certainly not before the paper fibres had disintegrated. In the colour areas, acetone would simply strip the colours off. Soaking and a vacuum table are used to chase out as much as possible of the water-based stains, and industrial metholated spirits the spirit-based stains. Vintage paper of this kind is generally very robust to acceptable techniques, generally not to the questionable...

If you feel the need to have the borders oversprayed, then of course you can have that done in the States, but it needs thinking about. Opinion's turned against spraying, even in the US in the last couple of years, with concerns over disguised damage, protection of buyer confidence and the Dorian Gray-like disintegration of cosmetic work from previous years (which I've personally been told about by a leading US dealer)."

What thoughts chaps? Has anybody had any success with bleaching/removing water stains from vintage paper?


Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 03:19:51 PM »
I agree that bleach should never be used on a poster and on an atomic level does more damage to the paper than help. I also do not believe in spraying.

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Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 03:25:35 PM »
Dario is probably the most qualified to reply to this... hopefully he'll chime in.  

I just read an interesting discussion over at NS4 that also touched on bleaching.  You might find it interesting as does seem to run somewhat counter to your restorers post.

I would generally agree that there is a difference between conservation and restoration.  The former would involve stopping or slowing destructive elements to paper (acid, dirt, brittleness, etc...), while the later deals more with cosmetics and presentation.  After having some several pieces linen-backed, I definitely find myself leaning more towards the less-is-more approach.  That said, I don't view touching up the white borders to be that contentious of an issue.  The main poster image on the hand...

Regardless, you would think this restorer would have explained all this before the restoration... I know which piece you are talking about and they surely would have known the potential restoration limitations when first receiving it.  By waiting until after the restoration, it could come off as trying to justify why they didn't do as good of a job as they could/should have.  Then again, I don't know the specifics...

Offline oldposterho

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 03:42:33 PM »
Dario did a poster for me and we had the same problem that the dealer discusses - if the paper would have been bleached it likely would have disintegrated.  In that instance I chose to avoid the bleach to keep the original paper, and was fortunate to be able to make the call myself.  If that sort of thing is important, I certainly don't see why you could tell the restorer your choices.  Most of the time I never bothered and just left it to the poster Dogs to decide.

I think the alleged obsessive non-use of bleach by European restorers is just as questionable a practice though.  Sometimes you just want it to look nice.

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Bruce

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 05:11:13 PM »
Why bother with restoration at all? Just make a quality repro and have your friendly neighborhood restorer mount it on the back of a sanded down original, and frame and display that?

Bruce

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Offline Harry Caul

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 05:34:00 PM »
Ha F#%king Ha.

Lets not kid about these things, shall we? :)

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 06:35:58 PM »
I almost agree with Bruce.. until of course he's not being serious

I rarely get posters linenbacked

something like a 1920s poster that is on kraft and torn etc.. that needs work..
but just because a poster has crossfold separation or a small piece missing or .. "oh my god .. folds" doesn't mean it needs work and my opinion is that posters that really don't need help are suffering more damage being backed. I prefer unbacked posters.

In other words, I agree with Harry.. restoration is one thing.. cosmetic repair is something else

a little cosmetic plastic surgery is okay... major cosmetic plastic surgery is an emotional problem

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moviemem

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 10:02:12 PM »
Water stains can certainly be removed by a restorer. If a poster is heavily stained I would want the stains removed otherwise I cant see any point in having it linen backed.

scartacus

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2010, 04:29:07 AM »
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I will be picking up the poster later today and will post the results of the restoration. 

scartacus

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 02:19:17 PM »
Just posted the pics in a new thread...

Offline erik1925

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 05:47:55 PM »
Just posted the pics in a new thread...

Hey Dom..

I was looking for your pics and couldnt find them. What was the thread you posted them in?

Jeff



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Offline 50s

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2011, 06:06:42 PM »
Hey Dom..

I was looking for your pics and couldnt find them. What was the thread you posted them in?

Jeff




Just view the members profile and view Last Posts. Here it is

Offline erik1925

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 06:12:11 PM »

Just view the members profile and view Last Posts. Here it is

Thanks Steve.. I didnt think to look them up that way.. ;)

Jeff


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Offline 50s

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Re: Water Damage -- Do you concur?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 06:39:14 PM »
No worries! It's a hidden little feature...