Do you ever buy posters directly from dealers?

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Under what circumstances will you buy directly from dealers (outside auction venues)?  

Thierry has often said that he never buys from dealers.  

Like everybody else, dealers are entitled to make a living, but normally their prices are double or triple (or even more) compared to auction prices, so I normally don't either. However, I will buy from dealers if:

1 - The poster I'm considering buying never or rarely comes up for auction
2 - The price is within the range of a typical auction price for that poster
3 - I like the dealer (very subjective I know)

Following those principles, I've purchased about 5% of my posters from dealers like Cinemarts (Suburban Mayhem), Posterworld (Egbert - and yes I know that's controversial) (Return of the Jedi and others), etc.  I'm also considering getting a couple from Cinemasterpieces.

This forum is ad-free - one of its stellar qualities of this forum -  so feel free to weigh in without censorship!  (As I recall, Goodfella requested that MPF members NOT criticize advertisers publicly.)

UPDATE: FORGOT TO ADD: Also, do you ever negotiate with dealers?  I always hate that. Negotiating is not normal for Americans except for cars & houses.

[kovacs01]

I buy based on price and availability.  If I decide I want a poster, then I go looking for it and buy it for the cheapest I can find (as long as the seller isnt on my own personal banned seller list).  I will pay a little more for certain sellers that I know package well and offer good customer service. 

[Harry Caul]

What economic times are you living in?  I'm American and I negotiate on everything! I probably saved 20% on building and furnishing my house, if not more.  Posters are absolutely no exception!

My rules for purchasing from dealers sound pretty similar to your own.  Although, given my highfalutin, fancy tastes (), the only dealers I've bought from so far have been over seas...  normally for availability reasons.  I would highly recommend both:

Dominque Besson
Kinoart

[supraman079]

Thierry has often said that he never buys from dealers.  

Most of the time Thierry will not use a dealer. He doesn't like paying their high prices. Somebody like Dale is a bit of a different story and so T has gotten some stuff from him since Dale doesn't price gouge like so many dealers do. Also, there are a few posters in his collection that he would have never gotten without going through a dealer. But, by in large, I'd say the majority of T's collection is not from dealers, maybe 95%. He's been at it a while now and part of his collection was given to him. But, this doesn't change the fact that he is still known as an ebay whore. Once a whore always a whore.

If you are going after a piece that you can't find and chances are will not find from an individual seller you may just have to go through a dealer.

Chad

[CSM]

Would it not be correct to say that many of the best known eBay sellers are really just dealers using an auction site?

[ddilts399]

I deal, but I dont consider myself a deal-er ! I think the crossover is when nothing you own is considered not for sale. I still have purchases rolling in all the time, so I think I am on the collector side of the house still.

I still buy 99% from auction sites, there is just to much of a premium on many of the e-sites.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Dale.. you are most definitely a dealer... you sell posters as a regular course of business, not as someone trying to sel one piece so he can buy another

presumably, you buy posters wholesale from one source (newer posters) and you retail them on fleaBay and elsewhere

that definitely makes you a dealer, even if your total income (includes stuff you buy as a collector from the proceeds) from posters is only 10-20% of your total income you would be classified as a dealer.

But hey.. there's nothing wrong with it.. Dealers aren't bad because they're dealers.. The ones who are bad would be bad no matter what they were doing

I'm a dealer and proud of it!!!!

[theartofmovieposters]

I don't get the dealer hate.  I buy from whomever has what I want, and will always try to negotiate.
For those that think dealers gouge (yes there are definately some which most would consider overpriced) let's see what you all do when you want to sell off your collection.  Are you going to let them go for what you got, or give them away?  I think not. 
Like anything else, if you don't like their prices, just buy somewhere else.

[scartacus]

By and large, I find that you can buy $100+ posters on ebay for a quarter of the dealer price -- but you are taking a risk..which you can try and mitigate by asking all the right questions and/or requesting more photos. The risk of buying from a dealer...is you pay through the nose. Here's an example -- A Spartacus quad with art by Chantrell would retail in the UK for between £300-500 depending on the dealer -- the last two on ebay have sold for around £100 each (most likely to dealers!). So you could buy the Spartacus poster 3-4 times on ebay before you've paid the dealer price on ONE poster.  

I'd be really interested to hear who buys all these dealer posters -- how do they market themselves to "unaware collectors" -- because most people who read these forums know when they're paying over the odds for a poster.    

[moviemem]

Would it not be correct to say that many of the best known eBay sellers are really just dealers using an auction site?

That is certainly true. I would say that the majority of sellers of posters on eBay are dealers (although a lot of them probably don't pay tax!).

I buy from dealers very regularly outside of eBay and sell to dealers equally as often. I can't see any issue at all. If I like the look of a poster and the price is right that is good enough for me. The only other consideration might be to check the feedback or general reputation but whether or not they are dealers doesnt matter to me.

Although some dealers might have higher prices than others you can often get a great deal from them if you shop around because they have usually purchased in bulk and are just happy to turn things over. 

[moviemem]

I deal, but I dont consider myself a deal-er ! I think the crossover is when nothing you own is considered not for sale.

Hmmm - that's interesting. I have a large private collection that will never be sold but I still consider myself a dealer. I think many other dealers are also passionate collectors.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

Let me clarify that I am talking about dealers selling OUTSIDE the auction process on their own websites (or stores) and not through Ebay.  I'm also excluding auctioneers like MoviePosterbid, Emovieposter, etc.

Does anybody other than Harry Caul negotiate?  How?  Do you say, "this auctions for this amount so I'll pay you this amount"?

Do you think that dealers are going after "unaware" or "ignorant" buyers, who don't realize they can buy the posters at auction much cheaper?

[CSM]

Nice to see you posting here John <---- one dealer I, personally, would recommend to anyone. 

[CSM]

In my experience I would say there are actually very few sellers who are are not 'knowledgable' about what they are selling in terms of approximate value.

Sure, sometimes a deal crops up and a seller really has no idea and lists/sells something for far less than its generally accepted value (like the unfortunate soul who sold the Mark of the Vampire daybill!) However, in my experience, the opposite occurs far more often where someone lists a $25 poster for $250 out of ignorance.

I don't think MOST dealers are targeting 'unaware' or 'ignorant' buyers - caveat emptor always applies - if you buy something without doing some basic research and pay a lot more than you COULD have you have no one to blame but yourself.  I do not think that business model would work in the long run (please no comments on Cinemasterpieces). 

[theartofmovieposters]

Mel,

If someone has a poster I am interested in at a price I am not willing to pay, I simply make a counter offer...and it goes from there.  I have never found anyone I have dealt with in such a way to be offended or difficult.  At the end of the day, if you can't come to an agreement on price, then you just say thanks but no thanks.  I don't know any "dealer" who isn't willing to negotiate to some extent on price.

[theartofmovieposters]

And on the side discussion of dealer vs seller...I do think there is a difference.  I don't consider myself a dealer, a seller certainly...I don't make the bulk of my income from sales, it really just helps feed my hobby.  A dealer (to me anyway) makes their primary living off selling posters...I think sometimes people forget this when they get pissed that dealer x won't lower the price on the item they want by 50-70%.

[eatbrie]

It's true, I almost never ever buy from dealers, because I know I can almost always find cheaper somewhere else.  Maybe not right away, but at some point down the line.  Like Chad said, I'm an Ebay whore, and I'm not ashamed of it.

However, as I try to find older pieces (pre-1970), I find it increasingly hard to find them on Ebay, and for good reasons.  And when I do, they are usually in pretty bad shape.  When this happens, and if the item never pops up on Bruce's auctions, I will turn to a dealer, and deal.  I'm in Paris right now for the week, and I will go to a dealer tomorrow (while my wife shops for clothes), slam a bunch of bills on his desk and say: "I'm here, what do you have for me!"  I do it every single time I come here.  This is how I got some of my older French posters that I had never seen on Ebay.  And then we'll talk, and I can assure you, given the economy, that he will drop his prices by at least 25%.

But the new stuff, post 1970, nah, no dealer needed.  Case in point, my 4 Aliens double crown...  Saw them at a dealer's site a few years ago (I think he wanted more than $1,000 for them), hesitated for the longest time (these never pop up) and eventually decided to play the Ebay game.  It worked.  It took 4 years, but it worked.

But like Ves said, it's all a matter of choice.  If you're in a hurry, by all means, buy from dealers.  Buy from Dave.  You know you will get the right stuff in great condition with extra careful packaging.  If you can wait, wait.  But be aware that what you are waiting for may NEVER EVER pop up.  It's a catch, but at the end of the day, there are a lot of other posters to get in the world.

BTW, why the frack do people live in Europe.  It's freakin' freezing.  I left my sunny Southern Cal for this???  Thank God the food is AWESOME.  Plus a bottle of wine at every meal...  It makes you forget the cold and the gray sky, but not quite.

Oh, and go Jets!  Go Sanchez!  I've been exchanging insults with a very close friend of mine who lives in San Diego.  Lots of fun!

T.

[paul waines]

Freezing in Europe?  It's just nice at the moment.........

 

[Harry Caul]

BTW, why the frack do people live in Europe.

Let's see... they have some of the best foods on the planet--even at small little cafes, they have inexpensive-yet-delicious wines, road trips can lead to other countries and climates (and foods and wines), the Mediterranean coast is one of the most beautiful places on Earth, they (some) get to take siesta, their work days are actually 9 to 5, and public nudity is socially accepted and in many cases encouraged.

Oh yeah, and everyone gets August as a holiday. Sounds miserable

[cinemarts]

If you are buying and selling a commodity, you are dealing in it. It might be "hobby dealing" but that
implies you break even, rather than make a profit.

Just look at the seller feedback numbers for some people who claim to be "really a collector"
and it makes a nonsense of claims to be "just a collector".

Ves's comment about how many would sell what they bought for what they paid (or perhaps underpaid) for
is valid. Honest answers only, if only to oneself.

Also like Ves, I don't understand "dealer hate", but it goes some way to explaining why most other dealers I know
- with a couple of rare exceptions - simply do not participate in forums of any kind.

When I was "just a collector" it was experienced dealers who provided me with the sort information about posters, artists, printing, formats et al, that was simply not written down in books anywhere. When I moved into dealing it was part of the tradition of collecting (anything, not just movie posters) that I passed on to new collectors. There are so many facets to the collecting of movie
memorabilia that no one person can know it all. All the dealers I know, and have known for a long time, actually still enjoy
the growth of their knowledge... and the ability to pass it on to new collectors.

As for negotiating... well, if you don't ask you don't get. And negotiating a purchase price of movie memorabilia has always been part of the business. There's one very high profile East Coast dealer who, if you sneeze, will give you a discount, and I don't know one dealer worth their salt who doesn't give deals to regular customers.

Phil

[holiday]

I buy from folks that I have a relationship with, for the most part.  Whether they are considered dealers, collectors, or some mix of the two is irrelevant.  As Ves said, if someone has a poster I want, and if we can reach a mutually acceptable price, then I'm a customer.  Even with ebay auctions, I deal with sellers that I know about 95% of the time.  I would rather pay a bit more to deal with someone I know than go for the "great buy" which turns out to be not such a great buy when it gets torn up due to shitty packing and shipping.  If you factor in all the crap you end up with buying just from ebay dealers that you don't know, then all of the sudden I bet those great deals don't look so great when you spread the cost of the useless crap among the few really good things you get.

And you're right, Mel, his is an ad-free forum and we can speak our mind here without worrying about advertising. At the same time, I think it's important to acknowledge the good dealers out there who give fair prices.  How about Posteropolis?  I've bought some great posters at great prices from Dave.  Phil from  Cinemarts, Ves from the Art of Movie Posters, Rich and Movie Poster Bid, Bruce at emovieposter, Colin at ckmac, for a time, Steve Zammer from dsonesheets before he went awol, Erich, Carson, Dale, Dave at cinemasterpieces, kinoart, posteroid, ed king, I could go on and on with a list like this. These are all folks that I have bought from, and from whom I have received great products at great prices with great service.  I'm beholden to them not because they advertise, which they don't, but because they are all some of the best in the business.  I trust them, their products, their knowledge and their ability to ship something safely and securely.  Tell me how many auction-only types on ebay you can say that about?

Now, don't expect to jump in and get the buy of the century when you're new to this hobby. These are relationships I've built over the past 6 or so years.  As much as I trust them, they trust me to follow through with a transaction and to not jerk them around with asking for a million pictures and never buying anything.  It's a two way street.  I'm sure there are a number of buyers on this board who are not liked by every dealer out there, because of bad attitude, bad negotiating style, or because they're just to damned cheap to be bothered with. 

Remember, for all the anti-dealer types out there, one day one of those dealers may have your "unicorn" for sale, and you damned well better hope you haven't made an ass of yourself before then with that dealer!

[kovacs01]

Steve is AWOL?  I got an email from him a couple of months ago.

[holiday]

Steve used to be around all the time, consistently.  Now, he drops in like a bomber, drops a few bombs like he did on MoPo a week or so ago, then disappears again for another few months ago.  His site's been down for at least a year now.  And, as far as I know, the only sales he's trying to make are for some Japanese material which is, to say the least, undesirable both for the subject matter and the price.  It's a shame, because Steve used to be one of my favorite dealers, though his prices were so high that they would curl the enamel off your teeth.  He used to be a next-day shipping kind of guy, then he turned into a pray-and-you-might-get-it kind of guy that had to be begged to ship what had been paid for weeks prior.  He got so bad that today, if I did buy from him again, it would only be on a COD basis.