Paying more for linen backing?

[TheDude]

Hi Guys

I was just wondering whether on lower end posters (sub $400) linen backing actually increases the price? Lets assume the poster is not modern and readily available at auction.

Thanks

Jake

[paul waines]

In my world, Linen-backing only drops the price of a poster in any price range.  I'll never bid what a poster is worth if it's backed.

That said, there are of course exceptions :-   Scarce, one off's I ain't seen before, or backed ones I could never afford in excellent unrestored condition. Or large posters that one wants to display... but even those I'd just leave as is.

 

[TheDude]

Do you know if that is a common opinion?

[jayn_j]

Do you know if that is a common opinion?

Define 'common'.  It is an opinion held by many here, including Rich, Thierry and myself.
However others will back posters simply to get rid of fold lines.
On modern posters, backing often covers up the reverse side of a double sided poster, making it useless for light boxes.

You pays your money...

[marklawd]

In my world, Linen-backing only drops the price of a poster in any price range.  I'll never bid what a poster is worth if it's backed.

That said, there are of course exceptions :-   Scarce, one off's I ain't seen before, or backed ones I could never afford in excellent unrestored condition. Or large posters that one wants to display... but even those I'd just leave as is.

I agree with all this. Given identical condition posters - one backed, one unbacked - I'll bid more for the unbacked one every time.

Mark

[ddilts399]

I'll go 1 step further, I wont buy a backed poster for myself period.

[Crazy Vick]

I can appreciate the views here and largely agree but to answer TheDude's question I think backing DOES increase value.   Just look at Bruce's upcoming auction http://www.emovieposter.com/online/previews/2016aug/parti/

A lot of "meh" titles that probably will go for much more than their unbacked, good to very good, paper condition, in a previous auction. 

Respect the backing.
Respect the backing.
Respect the backing...

Now, if you make $65 more selling a backed copy, but spent $50 on materials and $200 in man-hours to carry out the process...well, that's another thing.

[jayn_j]

I think some of the comments here brush over an important point.

Folks say "I'd pay more for an unbacked one", but avoid saying "in the same condition"

In the US at least, backing is used to eliminate condition issues.  You end up with a poster in fine or better condition, often starting from something that was good or fair.  I would expect such a poster to go for more than it would in its original condition, but perhaps not as high as an original unbacked poster in its new condition. That's assuming you can find one in that condition.

[eatbrie]

I just bought 2 backed posters (at HA Sig auction) and they are my first 2 linenbacked one sheets EVER (I own more than 5,000 OS).  I would have gladly kept it at zero, but I felt I couldn't find the 2 posters I bought in very good to excellent condition, so I went for it.  If I ever find those posters folded in the desired condition, I will swap the posters.

Given the choice between 2 identical posters, one backed, one folded, I will ALWAYS, ALWAYS choose the folded one.

T

[ddilts399]

The problem is that value is all relative, because the price you pay for the linen backing on a marginal title will not even get you back the cost of doing the backing to begin with. Yes you may go from a $50 folded poster to selling it for $200, but it is going to cost more than 150 to have the work done.

[CineMasterpieces]

We sell to all kinds of people all over the world and we try to educate them as much as we can about linen backing and its potential effect on value.

We have found that for a typical folded one sheet prior to the mid 80's:

Most "regular" people (non collectors) prefer a poster that is linen backed and will pay more for it compared to a non linen backed one.

Most true collectors we deal with collect linen backed and non linen backed posters. A very small percentage of the true collectors we sell to only buy non linen backed posters.

That being said, I would say that most of the people who comment on these boards consider themselves to be DIE HARD true collectors, and many of them obviously are against linen backing.

So, if the casual reader reads these boards he/she may think that most people do not like linen backed posters, when in reality this is simply not true. It is easy to see this if you look at our own sales, Bruce's sales, and at Heritage's sales.



 

[eatbrie]

Do you have linenbacked posters to sell, Dave?

T

[archstanton]

He's not wrong.  Like he said: look at Bruce's and Heritage auction results.  Backed items do very well, often selling for more then their unbacked counterparts. 

[Crazy Vick]

I consider myself a bit of a renaissance collector and fold all my linenbacked posters. Man do they ever look great! 

[erik1925]

He's not wrong.  Like he said: look at Bruce's and Heritage auction results.  Backed items do very well, often selling for more then their unbacked counterparts.

But as Dave also mentioned, it has to do with the condition of the backed vs. the un-backed piece. If an unbacked piece is in poorer condition, vs one that has been conserved (and/or restored), then I could also see the backed piece selling for more. I think, in many cases, it comes down to condition, pre- or post- restore.

[erik1925]

I consider myself a bit of a renaissance collector and fold all my linenbacked posters. Man do they ever look great! 

Pics!!

We need pics of that folded linen, Vick!!! 

 

[Crazy Vick]

Pics!!

We need pics of that folded linen, Vick!!! 

 

Sorry Jeff I sent them off to Cloutier to re-do the foldlines, I wasn't happy with my folding of the linen, I figured he would be better at it, maybe run it through the machine

[CineMasterpieces]

Yes we have hundreds of linen backed posters in stock. When I first started in this business I kept just a few in stock. I soon learned that it was much more efficient to have them already linen backed because it is what the vast majority of buyers prefer.

Lets take a typical folded JAWS one sheet for example. We always like to keep a few linen backed ones in stock if we can. They tend to outsell the non linen backed ones probably 20 to 1. It is what most people want. However if you read these message boards you would think the opposite is true.

Most people who are buying vintage posters are not collectors. They only want one or a few and then they are done. These people usually prefer an original that looks fantastic with fold lines flattened out and touched up.

Now, whether it increases the value is a different story. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It depends on a lot of factors.

[erik1925]

Sorry Jeff I sent them off to Cloutier to re-do the foldlines, I wasn't happy with my folding of the linen, I figured he would be better at it, maybe run it through the machine

 

[erik1925]

This thought was discussed a bit here, too:

http://www.allposterforum.com/index.php/topic,9707.0.html

[TheDude]

I can appreciate the views here and largely agree but to answer TheDude's question I think backing DOES increase value.   Just look at Bruce's upcoming auction http://www.emovieposter.com/online/previews/2016aug/parti/

A lot of "meh" titles that probably will go for much more than their unbacked, good to very good, paper condition, in a previous auction. 

Respect the backing.
Respect the backing.
Respect the backing...

Now, if you make $65 more selling a backed copy, but spent $50 on materials and $200 in man-hours to carry out the process...well, that's another thing.

Thanks Vick. That was actually the auction that prompted my question. There are some posters there I wondered why anyone would bother to back.

[erik1925]

Define 'common'.  It is an opinion held by many here, including Rich, Thierry and myself.
However others will back posters simply to get rid of fold lines.
On modern posters, backing often covers up the reverse side of a double sided poster, making it useless for light boxes.

You pays your money...

Is backing a double sided poster common practice? I never even thought that this was done for this kind of poster. I guess Ive never looked that closely at auctions of modern posters that have the potential of being DS that were also linen backed. I'll be looking more closely in the future, to see if descriptions mention that DS factoid or not.

[Undead]

Now that is a delayed response Eric.

I for one have no problem with backing as you know if it will improve the poster and preserve it. When it comes to modern double sided posters though I have yet to find any double sided poster I want that was rare enough that I would consider backing just for appearance purposes and have a copy. I would just wait to get a decent rolled copy. Paying attention to Bruce's auctions I have seen few DS posters backed but I would say it is in the range of .025%, very very uncommon to see it done. Just my two cents on it.

[erik1925]

Exactly my thoughts, too, Mike, when it comes to backing.

To me, backing a DS poster would totally defeat its purpose and, I would think, actually greatly de-value the poster, too.

[jayn_j]

Exactly.. to back a DS poster would totally defeat its purpose and, I would think, actually greatly de-value it, too.

It still depends on the audience. The person David is describing doesn't give a fig about the history of the poster.  (s)he is just interested in how it is going to look framed in the rec room.  If it is going in a frame, then DS is irrelevant and I doubt many of the casual folks go to the trouble of making or purchasing a lightbox anyway.

Unfortunately, I suspect that the majority of these posters are forever removed from the collector market.