Black Swan International Art Deco One Sheets

[Zorba]

Anyone else wonder how many times loce and his repro buddies the brads and ricks of the poster world have had similar negative feedback removed just cause they asked?

Feedback only counts if we like it?

Stay classy ebay!

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Anyone else wonder how many times loce and his repro buddies the brads and ricks of the poster world have had similar negative feedback removed just cause they asked

No, they're not leaving negative feedback b/c they're getting refunded "no questions asked." In effect, they're being bribed to stay quiet.

One of the people I wrote about the Black Swan fakes has already informed me that he immediately filed a Paypal dispute over four Black Swan posters and Tom Loce immediately agreed to refund.

[Neo]

Well, guys, I need more than luck. The only way to prove he's selling fakes is to buy one.  I blew $45 getting that Black Swan and probably will never get it back.  To help, you'll have to buy one of them and hit him with negative feedback IF it is fake.  It's obvious all his Black Swan single-sided posters are fake.  The rest, I don't know...

Since Falcor may not be the best option, the character pictured below is probably the second best. 



Seriously bro, just file a PayPal claim and (most likely) get a refund, and if people want to figure out how to tell what's legit from what's not, trustworthy people to buy from, etc. then they can get the information to from joints like this.  My $0.02.

[Disheveledamethyst]

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Seriously bro, just file a PayPal claim and (most likely) get a refund, and if people want to figure out how to tell what's legit from what's not, trustworthy people to buy from, etc. then they can get the information to from joints like this.  My $0.02.

The problem is that 99% of casual buyers will never go to sites like this and will never know they have fakes unless and until they try to consign them or resell them to a knowledgeable collector. By then, it's far too late.

That's how Tom Loce has survived so long in this hobby.  Some, perhaps most, of his posters are legit.  But he sells also tons of reprints to casual buyers that he labels as "originals."  The relatively few who realize they've been ripped off and who complain within 45 days get instant refunds.  Once the 45 day Paypal limit passes, they have no recourse.

A few negative feedbacks will put a stop to the sales of the Black Swans for sure, although it won't solve the larger problem.

[Harry Caul]

So to recap... you were given a refund and your negative feedback was removed?  Could you opt to keep the poster and keep the feedback (not that you would)?

[jayn_j]

Here's a thought.

Could you relist the poster on ebay with the title "Fake Poster sold as original by tloce" and a high BIN price?

Probably get yanked as malicious, but perhaps with some thought it could be worded to be acceptable.  Put a pointer to your analysis in your description.

I'd be willing to contribute to the listing fees

[Disheveledamethyst]

Here's a thought.

Could you relist the poster on ebay with the title "Fake Poster sold as original by tloce" and a high BIN price?

Probably get yanked as malicious, but perhaps with some thought it could be worded to be acceptable.  Put a pointer to your analysis in your description.

I'd be willing to contribute to the listing fees

That is a hilarious idea.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Here's a thought.

Could you relist the poster on ebay with the title "Fake Poster sold as original by tloce" and a high BIN price?

Probably get yanked as malicious, but perhaps with some thought it could be worded to be acceptable.  Put a pointer to your analysis in your description.

I'd be willing to contribute to the listing fees

He deserves that but that would only last a week.  Gotta win the war not just a temporary battle....

[jayn_j]

He deserves that but that would only last a week.  Gotta win the war not just a temporary battle....

Haven't I seen ones with a high BIN price and a longer sales period?  Some seem to stay up forever.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Added a Black Swan authentication to moviepostercollectors.com.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

The thing that amazes me about these fake sellers is that they DON'T EVEN TRY to make good fakes.  They just take a quick picture of the poster (or blow up an image) and print it out.  So every repro has fuzzy text that any knowledgeable collector can spot in three seconds and it's not necessary to have an original with which to compare it.  They don't even try to recreate the text in Photoshop, which is not that difficult.

Obviously, they're just trying to sell to naive or casual collectors.  The good news is that repros are just not a major threat to the hobby. 

[ATLfun]

  Okay, so someone help me to understand more.  The desireable one sheets were produced by La Boca a London based design company and produced in limited quantity to be given to whom?  They are not theatre used are they? According to some research, they were not made to be sold to the general public according to the La Boca website.  http://laboca.co.uk/blog/2010/10/black-swan-darren-aronofsky-2010/


  Now, my big time question is, are they not suppose to be DS?  Bruce has two up right now that are not?  Does that mean that they were produced both ways?  Seems odd, that a limited run would not be all the same.

  Any insights?


 Brian

[ATLfun]

  From the web, here is one account about the poster:


Daniel says:
March 21, 2011 at 11:03 am
I own a 100% original, pristine, 1st print of the 3rd poster, signed in silver by Darren Aronofsky himself. The poster is in fantastic quality and is 60×100 cm , so very large, made in a tough, sturdy paper.

Aronofsky signed a handful of these special posters for 20th Century Fox Studios and one of them was aquired by a the editors of a website called Filmz.dk, and imported all the way from the States to Denmark, where I live, and offered it as 1st price in their Black Swan contest. I contacted the editor from Filmz and had confirmed that the signature was authentic.

I contacted the winner and learned that he was only after winning the tickets included, so I bought the poster from him for basically nothing. I now have it framed in glas and a beautiful wodden frame for preservation.

I feel like the luckiest person on earth waking up to look at it every morning. Aronofsky is my favorite director and Black Swan and The Fountain are my 3rd and 1st most favorite films of all time.

[Charlie]

  Okay, so someone help me to understand more.  The desireable one sheets were produced by La Boca a London based design company and produced in limited quantity to be given to whom?  They are not theatre used are they? According to some research, they were not made to be sold to the general public according to the La Boca website.  http://laboca.co.uk/blog/2010/10/black-swan-darren-aronofsky-2010/


  Now, my big time question is, are they not suppose to be DS?  Bruce has two up right now that are not?  Does that mean that they were produced both ways?  Seems odd, that a limited run would not be all the same.

  Any insights?


 Brian

Well what I took away from this is that there are two types: limited edition and those that run with the regular campaign.  "These will run alongside the theatrical campaign and I believe will be also be available as a limited edition set, printed on nice un-coated stock."  The indication that they would not be for sale doesn't mean they didn't make it to theaters as cinema movie posters are not for sale. 

I take away that there are the ones from the theater campaign (DS like Mel's and Mine) and a limited edition run on card stock or "uncoated stock"  Bruces appear to be uncoated we may need to have him verify if they are on card stock or thicker stock. 

I also sent an e-mail to Debut Art (La Boca representatives) for more information...

-Charlie

[Charlie]

From La Boca Blog:

http://laboca.co.uk/blog/2010/12/black-swan-shop/

Scot Bendall says:
January 6, 2011 at 8:50 pm

Hello everyone – thanks very much for all the comments. We’re receiving a large number of requests inquiring where prints can be purchased – unfortunately, we’re told the full-size posters will not be available to buy and that they’re only being used for promotions and displays in cinemas. If we hear of any change to this we will post it up on here.

Scot Bendall says:
February 3, 2011 at 1:19 am

Hi Tony,
Sorry to hear you didn’t receive prints of good quality, but thanks for posting your experience here. I can say that as far as we know, there are unfortunately no plans to retail the original full-size posters anywhere (sorry), they are just being used in cinemas and as promo items – any unofficial sites offering them for sale will most likely just have reproductions (without quality control!). Please be careful to find out when buying if the posters are originals or not. There are also some examples to be found on eBay, a few genuine, but most appear to be reproductions.

[Charlie]

Check this out! Official Fox merchandise?  http://foxshop.seenon.com/index.php?v=searchlight_films_black-swan&nvbar=Shows:Black+Swan%29..

But no description on size?

From the same La Boca blog..

Nikesh Patel says:
February 16, 2011 at 5:20 pm

The posters are now on the Fox Store (http://foxshop.seenon.com/index.php?v=searchlight_films_black-swan&nvbar=Shows:Black+Swan)... but they don’t ship to the UK!!

[ATLfun]

  Boy, if those are cinema size, then what?  Legit studio versions with an endless supply at $19.95..........

Brian

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

The commercial posters lack credits and are easily distinguishable even if they are full-size, which I doubt they are.

There are some heavy card stock posters floating around on EBay.

[jayn_j]

  Boy, if those are cinema size, then what?  Legit studio versions with an endless supply at $19.95..........

Not about this poster, but you kind of have to wonder.  We probably could take a look at our inner OCD child when we are making multi hundred dollar decisions based on a small flyspec on a piece of paper.

The obsession in this group on perfect paper for modern movies really makes me wonder.  The pieces you are buying probably never hung in a theater, as they would be less than perfect.  Making a lot of determinations on small differences, which seems silly given that multiple printers are often involved in producing legitimate posters, that there are often differences that creep in during a print run even from a single source, and that extremely high quality scans are becoming more and more available.

We are starting to hit the stops where we are likely accepting reprints as legit and just as likely damning legitimate paper as bootlegs.  Since nobody but Bruce and Grey (and possibly Rich) make much money on this stuff, it seems way obsessive to me. But then, for a lot of these reasons, I tend to collect older NSS stuff.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

The most recent posts seem to be much ado about nothing.

The commercial versions are instantly distinguishable because they lack credits (top commercial, bottom real).





The digital repros that Tloce is pumping out have obviously fuzzy text.

It appears that these "heavy stock" posters sold by Posteritati are legit as well:

[ATLfun]

It appears that these "heavy stock" posters sold by Posteritati are legit as well:

  I guess my question would be legit as "what."  These heavy stock SS posters do not seem to be cinema used, but rather intended as studio handouts. According to the La Boca they made both for cinema and as studio handouts.  Would that not be similar to the Sony "heavy" stock posters that are relatively disregarded by movie collectors. Mel you know more about posters than I ever will, but I am finding these SS posters less and less desireable when the nature of these posters seems to be more of a graphic print.  It will be DS or nothing for me.

Brian

[Charlie]

Official E-mail from La Boca; This clears a lot up....  (you non-believers will be biting your tongue in a few seconds)

Hello Charles,
Thanks for getting in touch regarding info on the Black Swan posters.
Unfortunately, as this film was a wide international release it's almost impossible to give you any sort of hard facts I'm afraid.

From what I've been told, there were two print runs. One a very limited run (I believe 1000 copies) which were printed on quite a beautiful, textured/uncoated paper (size appx 70cmX100cm) - these were the 'art' copies and were solely used as promotional items/gifts/prizes - I believe a large number of these were also signed. These are not double-sided, but the quality of both paper and printing is very high. Then, the other run consisted of several thousand 70X100 posters which were used in cinemas and as competition prizes world-wide. These are the 'double-sided' variety and the paper is more silky/glossy - but again printing quality is good. There was also a set of landscape Quads printed as you mention, these were for use in the UK/Ireland as cinemas there mainly accommodate this size. I'm sorry, but I don't know quantities on these. There was also a set of official postcards manufactured on quite a nice un-coated paper which arrived in a black card wallet

All of these have never been made available to buy, so the only way to purchase these I believe, is through specialist dealers who acquire them privately or reputable individuals on eBay etc.

This year Fox have also started selling official replica posters, but I believe they are smaller than the originals and not on the double-sided paper. I haven't seen these so I can't tell you for sure.

We know there are large numbers of fakes being sold on eBay (I would say the vast majority on there). We have many reports of people telling us they have received poor quality prints from eBay. These are almost certainly fakes/reproductions. As the original posters have never been made available for purchase, no seller will ever have a large number of them I don't think. I'd recommend to report anyone suspected of selling fakes to eBay.

Sorry, I don't have any more knowledge that this - but I hope it's of some use.
All the best


La Boca Ltd.
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231 Portobello Road, London W11 1LT
e: eatme [at] laboca.co.uk
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http://www.laboca.co.uk
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[ATLfun]

  Holy Cow, what an awesome reply!!!!  Great work Charlie....

   Brian
 

[Charlie]

Went ahead found and bought the postcards: