Wouldn't It Be Great If All Dealers Had One Grading Scale Used By All Dealers?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Wouldn't It Be Great If All Dealers Had One Grading Scale Used By All Dealers?

most dealers use the termed scale (Good to Mint)
the majority of big dealers use the C/numeric scale C-1 to C-10
one dealer uses a book grading scale

discuss

[50s]

discuss

What accreditation body or other system ensures that dealers using the C- scale maintain consistency amongst dealers so that one dealers high C-5 is not fraudulently/not an iota of morals/ disgustingly passed off as a C-6 by another dealer?

[erik1925]

Wouldn't It Be Great If All Dealers Had One Grading Scale Used By All Dealers?

most dealers use the termed scale (Good to Mint)
the majority of big dealers use the C/numeric scale C-1 to C-10
one dealer uses a book grading scale

discuss

Sounds like a good concept, but I have a question: Regardless of the grading scale used, 2 people looking at the very same poster could give it a C-5 and a C-8. Because grading is is so subjective, how could it ever become a uniform standard (regardless of system used), so that 5 people would all grade that same poster as a C-8, for example?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Sounds like a good concept, but I have a question: Regardless of the grading scale used, 2 people looking at the very same poster could give it a C-5 and a C-8. Because grading is is so subjective, how could it ever become a uniform standard (regardless of system used), so that 5 people would all grade that same poster as a C-8, for example?

I was hoping someone would post this very answer, surprised it was posted so early in the thread though

yes, that is exactly the issue and you know what, I don't think everyone has to grade the same and no, I don't think it would be possible to get everyone to grade the same even if we tried.

the reason the issue needs to be discussed is not to create such a standard that everyone adheres to, but to point out that understanding grading from one company to the next is a matter of understanding the idiosyncrasies of any particular seller. I'm sure for instance that when I sell posters, though I may not grade the total same across many thousands of posters (nobody can, no matter what they say), the idea is to come within .5 of a grade 99.9% of the time

this is why when some people say they grade better than others, it isn't necessarily true.
I grade C-1 to C-9/10 with the majority of my top grade listings just being C-9, not because these items are not C-9/10 or even C-10, but because it means no one will be complaining if I lost a half a point. Of course that also means that most people believe that when I say C-9, I AM indeed saying 'near mint'

at the same time, I think both the big houses over grade lobby cards that are missing borders and I don't mean small trimming, I mean missing borders. I fail to see how such a card can be graded very good or good-very good when your highest grade is Fine (Fine is C-7 on my scale and no, when the other house grades fine, they mean a C-9/10 poster))

When you buy from Heritage, or when you buy from me or Peter at Movieposterexchange.com or elsewhere, it's off-base to try to compare the ways in which we grade posters against each other, when the correct way to assess this issue is how does Heritage, or Peter or myself etc grade against themselves on a regular basis. When you buy a C-6 from me in January, is its still graded C-6 in December? The same for Heritage, the same anywhere.

so when people start saying stuff like "we do the best grading" which is also like saying other people do not grade accurately - it's false.

as Jeff says

Because grading is is so subjective, how could it ever become a uniform standard (regardless of system used), so that 5 people would all grade that same poster as a C-8, for example?

it can't happen.

[AdamCarterJones]

Hey Rich,

Good question to pose.

What would I prefer to use in an ideal world?
The C-Scale all the way.

What do I practically use?
My scale as it is simpler and easier for buyers (in my opinion).

I now use the following scale based on research over the years pooled from Christie's, the C-scale, others and my own experience:
Very Fine; Fine; Excellent; Good; Fair; Poor.
- It works very well for me.

I stopped using the C-scale because I found it too in-depth and confusing for most buyers and it caused me more problems than not (and I, like many, usually described items a grade less with this scale in order to better protect myself).

I halted using "Mint" and "Near Mint" because when you think about it, this is meant for coins etc, so how can a movie poster be "Mint"? When I was working with Vectis, the main toy cataloguer told me that they hated the whole "Mint" and "Near Mint" grading of toys because it technically wasn't correct, but they and all others use it because it has been used for so long and is the readily accepted grading system. One of those annoying little things, I guess.

And I never liked the whole A-F scale; geared too much towards the art scene (even though posters are essentially art).

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Phil Seuling's comic book lists read like this:

Good: [definition]
Good to Very Good: [definition]
Very Good: [definition]
Very Good to Fine: [definition]
Fine to Very Fine: [definition]
Very Fine: [definition]
Mint: a flavor of gum. Contact Wrigley Company for more information

[ddilts399]

I use the old general comic rating. No people will ever grade the same poster with the same grade anyway. It is more about trusting the person you buy from and learning their scale as it relates to what they sell.

About the time one sheets get submitted to cgc I am leaving the hobby.

[jedgerley]

Its all about great pictures. Let the buyer determine if they like it or not.

[50s]

Every dealer send all their posters to mpgrading.com

Their goal is to grading every poster in the world and each poster is graded by up to three independent assessors. Sounds totally awesome.

If every dealer used them then we would have consistency in grading (and unaffordable) posters!

They not only have a grading scale, they have two!:

Mint (10)
Near Mint (9.5)
Very Fine + (9)
Very Fine (8.5)
Very Fine - ( 8 )  
Fine+ (7.5)
Fine (7)
Fine- (6.5)
Very Good+ (6)
Very Good (5.5)
Very Good- (5)
Good+ (4.5)
Good (4)
Good- (3.5)
Fair+ (3)
Fair (2.5)
Fair- (2)
Poor (1)

[erik1925]

The MP Grading sounds like a good idea on its face, but all it would take is an item being slightly bumped or dinged (even something extremely minor, or barely visible) as it is being un-packaged at any auction house -- and immediately the grade assigned to that item by MPG is no longer valid.

And how likely would it be that a description would mention a post-grade "baby" ding or bump that had been caused by handling, once it had arrived at said auction facility?

[jayn_j]

I agree with everything above.  Sellers will grade the same poster differently.  Heck, I will grade differently than the seller, but I do try to be consistent with myself.  That's where the value is TO ME.  I also assume that the seller is also consistent. Over time, I know what a Bruce VG means, as well as a Rich C-7.  The pictures certainly help, but I look at the grading first.

What I don't want to see is having us move to a central grading authority with slabbing, like happened with higher end comics.  Doing that takes away the ability to actually enjoy and display the product.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

The MP Grading sounds like a good idea on its face, but all it would take is an item being slightly bumped or dinged (even something extremely minor, or barely visible) as it is being un-packaged at any auction house -- and immediately the grade assigned to that item by MPG is no longer valid.

And how likely would it be that a description would mention a post-grade "baby" ding or bump that had been caused by handling, once it had arrived at said auction facility?

while MPG sounds good in theory, it isn't a possible answer because of the sizes of posters.
Lobby cards, which CGC is slabbing & grading are the only real size that can be done successfully & reasonably, but not other sizes for good reason

#1 a slab has depth. While a short magazine box (box made for comic magazines transport) will hold 125-150 magazines bagged & boarded, only 26 slabbed comics fit in the same box.
this has an effect on how many comics can be displayed in boxes on a table at a convention as you would bee 5-6 times the number of boxes to bring the same amount of comics

#2 MPG's method for larger items is to print a small invisible mark and a visible mark on either the front or back. Then they include a paper authenticating the item.
well here's the issue - in order to see or read the marks, you need to be a dealer approved by MPG and pay a membership fee and a research fee for each look-up. You would need a special reader (you pay for it) and a constant internet connection with access to their database. All of these costs are borne by the dealers.

moreover, the authentication sheet is easily lost or in my case, I just throw them away (clearly their method means nothing to me)

it isn't a reliable method and does nothing for me. If the service was free and everything involved was free - I'm not sure I would bother with it then even, because I don't need their help and as an evidentiary issue, I have 100% disagreed with the grades on the 3 items I have bought from Heritage that came with MPG grading (in each case, MPG graded higher than I would have)

there are other reasons I don't think they're useful..

I agree with everything above.  Sellers will grade the same poster differently.  Heck, I will grade differently than the seller, but I do try to be consistent with myself.  That's where the value is TO ME.  I also assume that the seller is also consistent. Over time, I know what a Bruce VG means, as well as a Rich C-7.  The pictures certainly help, but I look at the grading first.

What I don't want to see is having us move to a central grading authority with slabbing, like happened with higher end comics.  Doing that takes away the ability to actually enjoy and display the product.

good points Jay, I agree with both.

in comics, we have 2 schools, those that like slabbing and those that believe it defeats the purpose of collecting, as in this case, slabbing reduces the comics book to a cover and that's it. It then becomes strictly a commoditized item that is traded like stocks on Wall Street.

I call them "coffin books". They are 'dead' as comics.

[Ari]

Yep. Fuck grading at all. If it looks good enough for you that's all. Put it on the Wall and shut up

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Yep. Fuck grading at all. If it looks good enough for you that's all. Put it on the Wall and shut up

[erik1925]

And maybe a touch of these, so that all posters look rosy, amazing and spectacular:

  +    =     

[bigmike]

I now use the following scale based on research over the years pooled from Christie's, the C-scale, others and my own experience:
Very Fine; Fine; Excellent; Good; Fair; Poor.
- It works very well for me

I used the 10 grade system on ebay when I was selling, and then described the poster a little better as well if it had any issues. I rated them stricter than what others would usually rate them (since I wasn't a dealer and didn't want any issues with the sellers), so the seller would be happy getting a  poster in a condition better than described, but I started losing out. So I sent the majority to EMP to consign.

There was only one instance, where one ebayer tried to fight with me.

I used the term 'GOOD'(not even very good) in the auction. And the poster was at least 'very good to excellent'. It only had pin holes, and he sent a complaint regarding pin holes. I said I am using a standard grade, and the poster that had been received was in better condition than stated. I had provided him with multiple links as to different grading systems that were used and what the majority of the definitions of 'good' were. And the buyer lost the argument.

"GOOD to VERY GOOD - A heavily-worn item, showing significant signs of use such as multiple pinholes or staple holes, tape, tears, soiling, pieces missing, small markings or pen/pencil marks. Although this is an "in-between" grade and difficult to distinguish from a C6, items are relegated to this lower classification when there is a greater number of general flaws than would normally be expected in the higher grade, or when one major flaw makes the C6 grade unacceptable."- from LAMP

[erik1925]

And there is nothing like a well lit, High Resolution photo of a poster, (and the back, as well if the reverse has issues like excess tape all over it or water stains) that one can zoom closely in on, to see any and all defects, flaws, minor rips, creases etc.

Those assist any grading system by leaps and bounds, allowing any potential bidder to make the grading call for themselves, should a potential buyer grade something as only "Good" when a seller may have called it "Good-VG."

[50s]

Maybe just call it either 'good' or 'poor' and give general message like Heritage 'it could show signs of wear, pin holes, scuffs,...' and also say please view photos for more detail.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Maybe just call it either 'good' or 'poor' and give general message like Heritage 'it could show signs of wear, pin holes, scuffs,...' and also say please view photos for more detail.

pretty much what I do.

[ladeda]

Maybe just call it either 'good' or 'poor' and give general message like Heritage 'it could show signs of wear, pin holes, scuffs,...' and also say please view photos for more detail.

This would be great. To be honest I rarely look at grading. I prefer descriptions outlining specific faults. That and accurate photos are enough to inform your decision.