Alamo style posters more collectible than original posters in the future?

[Neo]

After posting on the thread Rich started about the "Alamo Clownshow", my attitude kind of shifted after thinking about some of the newer posters.  Some of the movies I've recently seen I liked a lot, but as others have mentioned, the posters for them are not really extraordinary in the sense that several years from now I really don't think people are going to look as fondly on them as many people currently do of original posters from the past.  

Regarding the prices of the Alamo posters, part of me says that they will not continue to increase at the rates that they recently have been, and the "bubble" will pop.  But when you look at the original posters of the last few years, very few of them have artwork that is going to be mesmerizing to people in the future IMO.  A lot of the Alamo posters now could be the marker of what was the beginning of a new wave of posters.

The fact that their fan base is fairly young also indicates that the newer generation could be turning away from originals, especially newer ones, and going after something that has some actual artwork as opposed to so many of the newer posters.  Imagine if Chuck Sperry and that crew started making movie posters, with the variety of designs they have combined with the quality of those pieces, that could really be the wave of the future for collectibles, IMO.

[AdamCarterJones]

I don't think it will ever happen, though.
As much as I would like something like this to happen (the return of hand drawn illustrated posters) the movie studios in all probability will not go back.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Neo, there will always be a market for art prints, but the vast majority of art prints - like more than 98% of them - run boom and bust.

they get to a price level they never should have gotten to, and then the salability tanks.

to be sure, Alamo Drafthouse posters ARE art prints and though the original intent of Alamo was nothing more than to create posters for their own use and sale "because they were cool", their cool was lost when the artists discovered what a market they had become and then the artists started doing more of them than they should have and then they started making them solely for commercial purposes and not because Alamo was showing the films. They flooded the market, and they they themselves became the retailers at collector prices which eliminated part of the phenomenon (Alamo sells them for $20 or whatever their price was. they work their way into a retail market and market forces drive the prices up as a small number of buyers looking to complete collections pay ever higher premiums. Then the artists skip the middle step and go directly to these hot buyers, cutting out the mediated rise in price and subsequently eliminating a part of the hobby. Then the top buyers get complete and drop out, the floor falls out, but people keep asking the same prices for posters that never sell for years.)

same as it ever was

[Neo]

Sounds like, based on your years in the business, you know what you're talking about Rich.  It seems reasonable to assume that there could be a trend toward collectible pieces in the future (with the current direction of original posters for the latest films) in the form of limited prints rather than originals, but  I would agree (like you said) odds are good that the vast majority of prints will "boom and bust."  It's unfortunate that most of the latest movies I've liked have original posters that the studios didn't put any time creating some artwork for it and instead just paste a picture of the main character so there would be that shock factor of "ooh it's Tom Cruise or Liam Neeson" which likely makes more money for them than designing some cool artwork.  A nice change would be some sick print like one by Chuck Sperry (a la Who Framed Roger Rabbit Jessica Rabbit Mylar) for collectors who like new movies, but I think Mel is right that at the current rate, the future of original posters looks bleak, for the newer films.

[Bruce]

I think what kills these things are the creators get greedy. They up the quantity of offerings (and the prints in each one) as demand rises.

But then some of the main collectors can't keep up with the new issues, and stop buying every one.

The beginning of the end is when some of the longest time collectors turn seller (they are usually "forced" to sell because they are buying a house or whatever) but when you see that start happening, you know prices have peaked.

Like Rich says, at that point prices don't crash, they just stagnate, with sellers wanting the top prices no one ever pays anymore, and the only sales happening when a new investor shows up, or at half or less of the old highs.

Take it from someone who has seen this cycle repeat countless times over a time longer than even Rich has (and it works just as well for the stock market, real estate, etc).

Bruce

[marklawd]

I entirely agree with Rich and Bruce.  I think I would qualify as one "of the main collectors" Bruce describes gaving been collecting them since 2005 and acquiring well over 200 different prints. The original concept of the "rolling roadshow" was great and I loved purchasing a few well-considered artist-designed posters in a relaxed time frame each year. These included multiple copies of Todd Slater's Goldfinger print and early Tyler Stouts which I considered might be good investments. I was right about those but subsequently wasted my money over the years on a lot of mediocre prints. I made the decision to completely stop buying new releases at the end of 2010 because of the sheer number of them (the Star Wars series signalled the end), the frantic buying procedure required, the increasingly high purchase costs and the ridiculous tweets on twitter. It is quite a relief!

Mark

[Bruce]

Mark explains it well from the collector side. The early collectors see the items as really cool and under-appreciated. Later collectors see these well-appreciated items as "investments" and they point to the appreciation achieved thus far as "proof".

Bruce's #1 rule of collecting ANYTHING: When those with a love of any type of item start getting out, and those with an investment mentality start getting in, that hobby (or portion of a hobby) begins a long slow downward descent, and it is time to look for something else to collect!

Bruce

[Bruce]

P.S. That portion of the hobby becomes filled with "rooters" (who want to see prices go higher yet), but very few actual buyers. Witness high priced Universal horror. The people who truly love the stuff were priced out of that part of the hobby long ago, and now the only buyers are mega-rich investors, who offer their items for re-sale over and over. And tons of collectors think items like a Bride of Frankenstein teaser should sell for a world record price, but no one with the actual cash has any interest in it.

Bruce

[Ogami_Itto]

i love mondo posters and have been collecting them for 2 years. when i first started collecting them i thought the aftermarket was too high. 200 for big lebowski 300+ for the thing, now i would kill to have the chance to get those posters at those prices but at the time i thought they were outrageous. i have a few older stouts robocop, total recall, road warrior (variant) but i got them at a fair price.

do i think these ridiculous prices will go down? yes , but i also think that in the long run (im talkin 20+ years) these prints could seriously end up being worth more just based on the fact that there are so many less than original movie posters and there printed with higher quality inks and paper. i dont care what happens because if i love the art and the movie im going to buy and enjoy it (as long as it fits in my budget).

as for what bruce said it is sad but very true.

[jayn_j]

As a collector, you need to be prapared for the whole thing to collapse, whether it is art prints, originals or cabbage patch dolls.

At least the Alamo craze hasn't evolved into the exclusive "buyers club" which is nothing more than MLM.  I've seen that for other "collectables".  A good example was Riker pewter where a small shop in Estes Park Colorado took on cult status, and for awhile in the '80s they had a franchised outlet in every mall in America.  Large number of overpriced pieces built around themes, and I think the only people who bought most of it were the dealers.  The expensive limited edition tended to collect dust while the cheaper mass market stuff sold OK.

Even there, some good did come out of it.  The Riker factory produced a number of world class sculptors.  They got their commercial start there and then moved on to some really creative and profitable work.

I disagree a bit with Bruce's assesment of simply stagnating.  The prices can go down when stressed enough.  You just need to look at Bruce's database and compare sales prices today with those from the mid to late '90s.  When enough collectors get tired of Alamo, somebody will decide to liquidate for whatever he can get and the whole thing will tumble like a house of cards.

As usual, collect em because you love em, not to make money.

[Cj]

I entirely agree with Rich and Bruce.  I think I would qualify as one "of the main collectors" Bruce describes gaving been collecting them since 2005 and acquiring well over 200 different prints. The original concept of the "rolling roadshow" was great and I loved purchasing a few well-considered artist-designed posters in a relaxed time frame each year. These included multiple copies of Todd Slater's Goldfinger print and early Tyler Stouts which I considered might be good investments. I was right about those but subsequently wasted my money over the years on a lot of mediocre prints. I made the decision to completely stop buying new releases at the end of 2010 because of the sheer number of them (the Star Wars series signalled the end), the frantic buying procedure required, the increasingly high purchase costs and the ridiculous tweets on twitter. It is quite a relief!

Mark

I too was collecting just about every print that they were releasing. However, i did not start collecting them until sometime near the middle of 08. I stopped in the beginning of 2010. I just had enough of the trickery you had to play with the checkouts, the crashes and just all the BS. I agree with Mark that it is quite a relief...its kinda nice not having to sit by the computer and keep hitting refresh for about an hour because you had to speculate when the drop was happening.

Cj

[Neo]

Bruce's #1 rule of collecting ANYTHING: When those with a love of any type of item start getting out, and those with an investment mentality start getting in, that hobby (or portion of a hobby) begins a long slow downward descent, and it is time to look for something else to collect!

Sounds like good advice Bruce. 

I too was collecting just about every print that they were releasing. However, i did not start collecting them until sometime near the middle of 08. I stopped in the beginning of 2010. I just had enough of the trickery you had to play with the checkouts, the crashes and just all the BS. I agree with Mark that it is quite a relief...its kinda nice not having to sit by the computer and keep hitting refresh for about an hour because you had to speculate when the drop was happening.

Cj

Sounds stressful. 

[eatbrie]

If it's rare (low print) and in demand, you will always be able to sell at a high price.  There will always be someone willing to fork out the money, especially with new means of communication reaching new collectors all around the world.  The problem today is that most of Alamo's recent stuff is not rare, nor is it in demand (crappy designs of crappy movies).  Since they are only doing movie prints, it is extremely important that the print illustrates a movie people love.  I don't see prints by Tyler Stout of The Thing or Blade Runner ever coming down 1) because there are only 350 prints of Blade Runner and 275 of The Thing (regulars and variants) and 2) because the movies have become true classics and have proven their longevity over time.  Both of them are being remade today.  Same goes with some of the Monsters prints and a few other chosen titles.  But a LOT of the other stuff (80% of the total), forget about it.  People will forget the movies and the artwork will be worth nothing.  Star Wars, I think, could still be a good collectible, even at 1125 prints because, well, because it's Star Wars.  But like I said a year or so ago, I think Mondo is sinking.  A lot of early collectors like Mark do not buy from them anymore, I haven't bought since the beginning of the year, and the excitement is running thin.  I don't even check their tweets anymore.

T

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I don't even check their tweets anymore.

Thierry tweets.. does that make him a twit?

[brude]

Interesting thread.  Lotsa great points by an esteemed group of peeps.
Whether Alamo-style prints will be worth more than studio-produced posters in the future is anybody's guess. I think their limited numbers ensure their value to some extent.

I believe only one thing is certain: ANY well-designed poster will always increase in value.

[jayn_j]

Interesting thread.  Lotsa great points by an esteemed group of peeps.
Whether Alamo-style prints will be worth more than studio-produced posters in the future is anybody's guess. I think their limited numbers ensure their value to some extent.

I believe only one thing is certain: ANY well-designed poster will always increase in value.

...and eventually be forged.  Wonder when we will see the first Alamo forgery?

[brude]

...and eventually be forged.  Wonder when we will see the first Alamo forgery?

I believe someone might have posted a link to Alamo reprints that are already on Ebay.
Could've been moviegoods, mgposter, or whatever other alias they operate under...

[paul waines]

Re: Alamo style posters more collectible than original posters in the future?


No.

[guest8]

...and eventually be forged.  Wonder when we will see the first Alamo forgery?

This has already been going on for a little while now ..

[ddilts399]

Just imagine all the chicken little's that are running around declaring the end of paper advertising tomorrow; this will be the only outlet to continue collecting new "paper" 

Bring on the poster Franklin Mint!

I have been on since 05' as well, still buy like mad. I buy the prints for the same reason I buy foreign posters, the art is different to the domestic poster. The quality is 10 times better than any poster printed today. Sometimes the art sucks, but hey, anything they come out with is better than a new floating head one sheet.