The Matrix Intl 'Lightning' poster authentication

[agentprovocateur]

I've moved this all from the Unicorn thread, hope that's cool!

Thought I'd post this in the unicorn section... sorry Harry



Buuut there is a serious point to me posting, when I got it back out of the plan chest to do some comparison shots with the bootleg version I noticed something interesting.

Have a close look at the strap line 'Believe the Unbelievable' and notice how it actually runs through the bottom of the title 'Matrix' (especially in the 'X' at the end). I thought it quite strange as the typography is really well organised and it's a bit sloppy to let this happen!

I then had a quick perusal of Holiday's photo of his 'Matrix' lightning poster and there the strap line was (lower) not interfering with the main title. Holiday if it's cool could you post your poster for comparison?

Admittedly my photo's not the best but I also noticed the one I have has a distinct blue cast to the whole poster, this shot of it by a couple of German versions shows how the colour differs, the one sheet is underneath the other two on the left.



I find this all very intriguing and wondered if the poster police gurus on here had an explanation!?

[agentprovocateur]

That is weird.  It doesn't have the Sonis logo... so if its a boot it is not the typical one.  One Sheet Index has this poster up for authentication and his tagline does appear a bit lower and does not overlap with the title.  I'm not a member of his site, but if you sign up he has a super sized image if needed:

http://www.onesheetindex.com/movie_posters/science_fiction/matrix_1_7177.html






One of these was also sold on eBay a few years ago (which I started a threat about on MPF, before APF even existed).  The first picture is a little fuzzy from the camera flare, but if you look at the third pic you can clear see the tagline has not overlapped with the title.  I'm not certain this particular poster is an original, but it was speculated to be at the time:

http://www.movieposterforum.com/index.php?/topic/19398-matrix-lightning-poster-a-does-it-exist-b-what-is-the-story/








I don't really know what to tell you AP...  If someone was going to the trouble to boot and pass the authentication tests, I don't know why they would change the title like that.  Is all the fine print text clear and crisp? 

[agentprovocateur]

Cheers Harry... all very intriguing!

Here's a couple if close up shots of the type, I'm going to have to get the poster out again and try and borrow an uber camera for quality shots.




It MIGHT be a bootleg, BUT I can't believe it would be because if they were bootlegging them why would only a section of the typography shift?

The added conundrum is the differing colour, it's interesting that there's the typographic difference combined with the blue cast throughout the poster!

This is a shot of the bootleg next to the one sheet (only small to show size diff. as it's a really crap photo!).

[agentprovocateur]

The color differences don't actually concern me all that much.  I've heard that the original 1-sheets are quite vibrant... more so than the germans.

[agentprovocateur]

Well, I'm not 100% following you.

The "bootleg" you are showing is the Sonis reprint - it is a legal commercial reproduction as far as I know.

Didn't you buy the supposed original from MPA Dan?  Is it some kind of test print? Why don't you ask him about the slanted text?

Here is Holiday's poster (as posted on his website):

[agentprovocateur]

It's interesting tho, looking at Holiday's photo of his poster the colour range looks more like to the German versions than my one sheet.

Am texting my mate now to borrow his camera... can hopefully take some decent shots tomorrow.

Mel, I showed the comparison photo to point out the one sheet I got from Dan was the full size at 27"x40"... sorry didn't mean to confuse things calling the Sonis reprint a bootleg, my bad.

The crux of my question is why is there a difference at all between the one sheet I have to the two images Harry posted and the one on Holiday's site.

I will whiz an email off too Dan this afternoon with some photos to see if he can shed any light.

[agentprovocateur]

Onesheetindex has not posted a "supersized" image on his website.  (I'm a "member" of his site - which is free BTW).  His text looks slanted too from the small "not so supersized" picture he posted:

[agentprovocateur]

Here we go, a couple taken with the flash showing the typography and colour difference much better.




And a detail shot.

[agentprovocateur]

This is the information from Dan's old site.  I got my copy from Steve Zammer at dsonesheets when he was still around, and while Steve's a lot of things, he's not one to handle bootlegs.  Between wehre I got the poster from and Dan's information below, I'm 100% confident in my copy.  I wish the picture was better, though. One day I'll update it.

Matrix Lightning International
International Matrix one sheet.
Created by Creative Domain for Warner Brothers.

Only came single sided to the best of my knowledge.

Original measures 26 15/16 x 39 3/4.

Reprint by Sonis measures 26 3/4 x 38 1/2.

Sonis logo on the bottom right corner.

[agentprovocateur]

Holiday thanks for the info., I wasn't casting aspersions on your poster at all, I just wanted to use your image of an authentic lightning poster to compare with the one I have.

I did email Dan, making sure he knew I had no issue with the sale at all, explaining what I'd noticed and whether he had any more info. on the poster I bought from him. He said...

I have a folded on linen – it matches the color and brightness of the one I sold and the one you have with the arrows on it.
The sonis reprint was taken off a printing where the text is lined up properly underneath "The Matrix"... as is my folded copy on linen.
 
Question remains why?
I wonder if they printed the poster I sold you... then realized the problem and then corrected it.
I have never heard of two printings of that style other than the Sonis reprint.

Not sure if I'm ever going to find out the complete story unless I go back to the design company or distributor and hope there's someone there that remembers the campaign!

I've emailed the design company and asked very politely if anyone remembers there being two versions of this poster printed, one with the overlapping strapline and one where it's separated from the title. Not holding out much hope, but fingers crossed!

Another two emails have been sent to people that have one of these posters asking about the strap lines position etc.

Will leave it there now and let y'all know if there's any response!

[Edit: I'm not even going to get into the two 'Lightning' posters I've got winging their way from Australia atm! Haven't got a clue what's going to turn up, but supposedly one's rolled and the other folded version came out of a limited edition press pack!]

[agentprovocateur]

None taken.  I just was offering up mine as a known original for the purpose of comparison, and providing the backup for my claim that it is original.

Good luck in your quest!  Yours will be the next Matrix authentication, without doubt!

[agentprovocateur]

This is a textbook example of how a good quality fake can be created.  You can download a large (2000x3000)"textless" version of this poster here.  You then "blow up" that image four times with special software to 8100 x 12000 size, which is a 300dpi 27x40 poster.  You then recreate the credits by matching the fonts.  The end product looks very good - the fonts are razor sharp, the artwork looks good, etc.

Not saying it was done here, just could have been done and could be done.

[agentprovocateur]

'Fraid I've received no replies to my emails regarding the lightning poster.

After scrutinising the poster I have next to Holiday's I also noticed there is another (slight) discrepancy between them. The website typography (www.whatisthematrix.com) at the bottom of Holiday's begins under the 'R' of Joel Silver and on mine it begins further right. I have manipulated both photos so the type is clearer. Notice the different places the '.com' starts under the other typography.

And having just uploaded the photos I also noticed the 'Soundtrack...' text on Holiday's starts much closer to the 'S' of the word Brothers than on mine!

Holiday's


Mine


The other thing worth mentioning is that from the (very!) small thumbnail on the twinkle site it looks possible that they have the same (overlapping strap line) poster as me. Has anyone been sent a good quality photo of the poster from twinkle?

Original


My blow up


My conclusions? Nothing definite whatsoever! Buuut... I could stick my neck out and say it is one of two options:
1. It's a bad fake - the poster was recreated from whatever files they had and the type was added with a couple of discrepancies.
2. It's the original design - the poster is the first printing but when someone spotted the overlapping strapline they reprinted them and moved the web address as well.

I will leave it there for the moment and stop cluttering this thread up... if I get any more info I'll start a new thread in the authentication area.

[agentprovocateur]

Good work AP.

One of you boys has the bootleg.  The question is who?  Note that yours is very clearly cropped compared to Holiday's - check the window next to Trinity's shoulder.

So three different "croppings."  The Sonis reprint shows the least cropping of the window, Holiday's less, and yours has the most cropping.

[agentprovocateur]

Cheers Mel... that's interesting about the crop on the right of Trinity's should.

Strangely tho if you have a look at the cropping in the top right hand corner you can see all the window on mine and on Holiday's the top corner's cropped... but that may be because Holiday's photo is cropped there and it is actually there.

[EDIT: I'm going to create a new thread for this in the authentification department as I don't think all this should be in the Unicorn thread!]

And it's done let's continue!

[Harry Caul]

Keep in mind there is another copy as well... as mentioned, one of these was sold on eBay a few years ago and that sale is what started the discussion over on MPF.  At the time it was reasoned that this poster was genuine as it came from a Warner Brothers employee who passed away and the other posters being auctioned were all WB posters.

These are the photos I (luckily) saved from that auction.  I'm not sure exactly what cropping you are talking about with the window, but these photos do show the whole poster including the border.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

The pictures in this thread show three distinct croppings on the window to the lower right of Trinity. Onesheetindex.com references that cropping, pointing out that the Sonis poster shows the entire window, whereas his original is somewhat cropped.  The cropping on the window is the same on OSI's and Holiday's posters - both clearly show three panes.  AP's copy shows MORE CROPPING than OSI's and Holiday's - only one pane partially visible.

AP, exactly what is the size of your poster?

[agentprovocateur]

Mel you're correct on the right hand side window cropping by Trinity's shoulder, I was talking about the top right hand corner... where I presume Holiday's photo has actually cropped off a bit at the top of the poster (notice his window in the top right is missing a bit).

Here's the top corners of each of the posters, the one from ebay you luckily saved the photos from Harry doesn't actually show the top right corner as it's slightly rolled.

Mine - top right window complete


Holiday's - top right window cropped


1sheetindex's - complete window


Harry's ebay image - unknown


Twinkle's - your guess is as good as mine!


I emailed this over to the guy I've (supposedly) got a couple of lightning one sheets coming from (Australia inbound):

'Do you remember a lot about them? I know you said they were both original cinema one sheets so am assuming they're the full 27"x40"? Are these the international version or are they an Australian version of the poster?

I only ask this as I've found a lot of commercial versions of the poster that are smaller than the usual one sheet and have the additional Sonis logo at the bottom... I'm praying to the poster gods they don't have the Sonis logo on them!

Sorry for all the questions! Any info. you can pass to me would be great.'

Will see if he gets back to me and if he has any more information!

Mel, from memory when I took those really crap shots comparing mine to the Sonis poster it was (give or take a couple of mm's) 27"x40". I'll try and sort out some photos of the poster with my tape measure on it tomorrow to give you the definitive size.

This photo posted earlier shows how much larger the overlapping strapline version is to the Sonis print, much longer and slightly wider.

[holiday]

Thread's fine.  Agent brings up a point about my copy.  I use magnetic strips at the top and bottom to take my pics.  Those strips cut off about 1/2" top and bottom of the image.  I don't care because it's for my use only, and it keeps others from having the full image for reproducing.  Agent caught this, to his credit, in doing his authentication. Be careful of any of you doing a comparison with my photo.  When I had it out, though, I measured it, and it holds up in all ways.  Plus, it feels right if you know what I mean.

I'm just sayin'....

[agentprovocateur]

Cheers Holiday, was pretty sure there was more to the top of your poster... just wanted to tick that difference of my list. I'm sure yours is legit, I'm going on mine being 'of unknown origin' until I get some definitive info. saying otherwise.