Antiques Roadshow appraises movie memorabilia

[Dr Hackenbush]

Rudy Franchi appraised a collection of WCs a woman had brought in.  I had to laugh when he appraised the HOLD 'EM JAIL WC at $3000, as I paid less than 10% of that when I won it in the Nov Sig auction 

[paul waines]

They are just as bad over here. An old chap took in 7 Quads from the late 60's early 70's. He was told that because they had all been folded, they wouldn't be worth much!!!  They needed to be in Original un-foled condition to get good money!

The old fellow pointed out, He was told that "where eagles dare" would be worth £150 on it's own. No, said the expert the whole bunch would only make £100-120. The bunch sold for 120, I wish I'd been at that auction... 

[quadbod]

Hi, Folks!

When we sold a FOR YOUR EYES ONLY quad to one of the teams in 'Bargain Hunt', the auctioneer valued it at £20/£30!  In the section of the programme between the purchase and the auction, the presenter found the same poster illustrated in one of the Sunday magazines with a valuation of £300. You pays your money and you takes your choice!

The inclusion of film posters in TV shows has a definite and immediate effect on people's response to our displays at the various fairs which we attend - particularly the 'non-memorabilia specialist' events like antiques and decorative art fairs.  Show organisers who at one time wouldn't even consider admitting us to their events changed their attitude overnight after seeing film posters featured in high-profile TV programmes!  The down-side is that when people see a poster valued at a thousand pounds on TV they then bring us their five pound posters and expect us to pay fortunes for them!

Hey-ho!

Best wishes,

Terry - www.quadbod.co.uk 

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I don't know why but I thought that was a re-run

Rudy also evaluated a late John Barrymore wc at $2000 that would sell for maybe $125-350
it struck me as odd that Rudy wasn't sure what year the Snow White window card came out 1937-38 or 39 (Heritage id's it as 1937 and that's what I always understood)

[paul waines]

Poster valuer.........Hey, that sounds like a good job for me.

[50s]

Hope they put the thumb tacks through existing holes

[Bruce]

There are lots and lots of laughable appraisals that have come out of Antiques Roadshow (ask the two ladies who were told their printing blocks were worth millions, and they quit their jobs to cash in on their illusory fortune.

But there is also a much darker side to this, involving some of the biggest names in the hobby. Here is something I posted on MoPo a couple of years ago that relates closely to this:

"What if a person finds an old movie poster, and wants to get a fair unbiased opinion as to its value and how to best sell it? Well, one might go to Google and type in "movie poster value" or some similar phrase, and one of the links you get is to a site that is called www.posterappraisal.com There is also a prominent link to that site at the top of Learnaboutmovieposters.com's page called "Sources and Resources for Movie Poster Collectors".
 
Going to that site, near the very top of the page is a disclaimer that reads, "Nothing is bought or sold on this site". and "but if you do wish to sell, I will be happy to suggest the best way to market the item you own" and even better, "I do not charge for this service or for the actual evaluation"
 
Great! A completely free and unbiased appraisal of your old movie poster. The page says that "The site is owned and run by rudy franchi" and a list of his credentials are given, including that the owner and his wife (Barbara) "have organized poster auctions for Skinner of Boston, Heritage Galleries of Dallas and Christie's, New York and continue to appear on Antiques Roadshow" (note the past tense on the poster organizing, and the present tense on the Antiques Roadshow).
 
Later on the page is the promise that "And to repeat, I do not make offers for the material you inquire about nor do I get involved in its eventual disposition". It seems that one could not ask for a more expert opinion, and you have an absolute promise of impartiality from people who promise to not "get involved".
 
But perhaps all is not exactly as is stated above? When one goes to the "Meet our Experts" page on Heritage's movie poster section of their website at http://movieposters.ha.com/common/consignment_directors.php, Grey Smith is listed as "Director", followed by Bruce Carteron as "Auction Coordinator" and then there are two "Consignment Directors" (both of whom can be contacted  through e-mails or 800 phone numbers that are housed at Heritage's headquarters) and these "Consignment Directors" are Barbara Franchi and Rudy Franchi. That clearly directly contradicts the statement on the posterappraisal.com site.
 
Or are perhaps these different people who happen to have the same name as the owners of the posterappraisal.com site? If so, they should clear up this confusion, so no one could think they are being deceptive, or hiding a major conflict of interest."

Bruce

[50s]

Or are perhaps these different people who happen to have the same name as the owners of the posterappraisal.com site? If so, they should clear up this confusion, so no one could think they are being deceptive, or hiding a major conflict of interest."

Bruce

What did Rudy say after I assume you contacted him for clarification?

[kovacs01]

Several years ago (2003 I think) I had a friend that contacted such a place (not going to name names) when he was thinking about selling some posters that his dad had when he passed away.  He worked at a theater in the late 50s and the manager was clearing out old stuff and gave them to him, apparently.  He folded them up and put them in a box where they remained until my friend went to clean out his dad's stuff.  He was told by this individual that the collection of 9 posters was worth approximately $1800 and that he would give him $1500 for them if he wanted to sell.  Knowing I had some interest in movie posters, he called me and I went over to take a look.  There were 9 posters, which included a somewhat beat up Tarantula one sheet, 6 others I didnt recognize, and near mint Forbidden Planet and Wasp Women one sheets.  He then told me about the guy's offer and said that he would sell them to me for $1300.  So guess what I have been holding out on you guys???  No, not really.  I told him that in good conscience, I couldn't offer him less than $8000 for the lot, but that I didn't have $8000 and that they are almost surely worth more than that.  He asked me if there is any chance they would lose value.  I told him probably no, and showed what he needed to do to properly store them.  They now sit in mylar sleeves in a fireproof safe.  He decided that it might be wise to hold onto them until he has a kid and needs to start a college fund.  I wonder how many other posters like that are waiting to be found in boxes.  I suspect that as more of that generation begins the walk to the giant theater in the sky, more will be turning up.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Schan that was classy. NM Forbidden Planet? Yowza.

[kovacs01]

Well, he is my friend, and he would have found out sometime I am sure, at which time he may or may not have remained my friend.  A few posters really is not worth that.  Had it been some stranger, I'd like to think I'd have done the same.  But, I won't lie and say I would have.  Because, I really don't know, and won't unless I am presented with that kind of situation.

[Zorba]

Schan that was classy. NM Forbidden Planet? Yowza.

Yeah wow!

I agree that a good friendship is more valuable.

[Bruce]

"What did Rudy say after I assume you contacted him for clarification?"

He replied as follows:
"My relationship to Heritage is stated clearly in the sig attached to every email I send out. If I recommend  Heritage when contacted by phone, I always mention my relationship to Heritage both as a consultant and as their representative on Antiques Roadshow,. But that's a big "if." The majority of the queries I get through my website are for values of non movie posters (travel, war, advertising, etc.). I refer a handful of these to Heritage, but the bulk are referred to such outlets as Swann Galleries in New  York, Phill Weiss Auctions (also N.Y.), Christie's London (vintage poster dept.) and individual dealers. As for movie posters, all sci-fi and horror get recommended to Heritage because they consistently get the best prices for this material. But if an individual poster or a collection of movie posters is a better fit for a different vendor, that's who I recommend. I've referred potential sellers to Christie's London (cinema poster dept.), John Kisch, Sam Sarowitz, Joe Burtis, Bonhams in L.A., Tony Nourmand, and in the not too distant past I've recommended several people who contacted me with large collections to Bruce, though I never received a reply from him --- but perhaps the owners of the collections did.  I hardly ever follow up with individuals who contact me after I have made a suggestion as to how they can dispose of their posters. Over half the people who use my site, have no desire to sell. They just want to know something about what they own and what's it's worth. I also inform everyone who contacts me and wants to sell that in some cases I will receive a percentage of the hammer price at certain auction houses. This finder's fee is  called an introductory commission and it  has no effect on the amount of the money the seller receives. I take great pride in my site and spend a lot of time each day answering emails. In the spirit of disclosure, aside from the occasional commission, because of the site I've also secured several major appraisals from institutions and individual collectors plus I've been hired as an expert witness in several legal cases involving movie and travel posters. Like the Hawaiian missionaries, I came to do good and ended up doing very well. Regards, rudy franchi"

I then re-replied:
"I have made my point, and Rudy has made his, and I I have no need to pursue this further. I think the truth of this matter is plainly "out there" for all to see (and everyone can make up their own minds based on what has been said).

For some reason, I am reminded of an recent incident with my son Luke. I told him he could take any cookies from the cookie jar in our kitchen without permission. I was surprised the other day to come into the kitchen and to see Luke with his hand deep in the cookie jar. Before I could say anything, he launched into a long rambling explanation of how he realized it could LOOK like he was taking cookies, but that actually he was merely counting the cookies, to make certain none of the OTHER kids had taken any!

Kids will be kids, but one hopes that when they grow up they learn to distinguish right from wrong, and more importantly, to take responsibility for their actions when they are caught "with their hands in the cookie jar", but some people apparently never do, and I feel that is their loss. "What shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?" seems to apply here."

To which Rudy re-replied:
"Gee, Bruce. I'm going to burn in the fires of hell over some movie posters?  I think the incest, two murders and the goat I raped will take precedence over  recommending a one sheet for Joe's Apartment to Heritage.  Regards, rudy"

Bruce

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

I met Franchi years ago in Boston.  My sister used to live there and I'd always stop by his shop when I visited.

He was way off on the Snow White window card:

"APPRAISER: But they have very strong graphics, so window cards are very popular. Now, a full window card measures 14 x 22, and this is a complete window card for the original 1937-38 release of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. The film was in release for, like, three years. Most of the window cards were in the later part of the run, and this is most likely a '39. This piece would, at auction, sell for $4,000 to $5,000. Now, this is a common occurrence with window cards-- they're trimmed. People liked them, but they didn't like all this writing at the top, so they would take the top off and then you get a 14 x 17."

Sold for $836 at Heritage last year.

He omits any connection to Heritage on his own website but it is fully disclosed on the Antique Appraisers site: "Rudy and his wife are currently associated with Heritage Galleries of Dallas, working with their movie poster staff and organizing auctions of vintage travel and war posters."

I do agree with Bruce that he should directly state that he gets a cut of the seller's commission on his website.  This is insufficient IMHO:

"I will be happy to suggest the best way to market the item you own: via auction, direct sale to a dealer or collector, or through eBay. I do not charge for this service or for the actual evaluation.... And to repeat, I do not make offers for the material you inquire about nor do I get involved in its eventual disposition. I provide a value range and suggest the best way to realize that value."

To say "nor do I get involved in its eventual disposition" is very questionable if he's getting a commission.

[wonka]

Good stuff, Schan.

[erik1925]

Interestingly, all 4 of these very cards appraised on AR were consigned to Heritage and 3 have sold there already. As previously mentioned, The SNOW WHITE card, appraised in the $4-5,000.00 range, on August 7, 2010 (when the show was taped in Des Moines) then sold at Heritage, on November 10, 2010, for $836.50 (inc BP).

THE GREAT MAN VOTES WC, appraised for between $2-2,500.00, sold on October 3, 2010, for $36.00 (inc BP).

Lastly, the Wheeler & Woolsey WC, for HOLD 'EM JAIL, appraised in the $3000.00 range, sold, at Heritage, in their November 13, 2010 auction, for $239.00 (inc BP), as Angelo, the winner, mentioned above.

The trimmed, GWTW card, appraised between $1,500-2,000.00, has also been consigned to Heritage. The top border has been restored and it will be in their March 25-26, 2011 auction.

     

[CSM]

Interestingly, all 4 of these very cards appraised on AR were consigned to Heritage and 3 have sold there already. As previously mentioned, The SNOW WHITE card, appraised in the $4-5,000.00 range, on August 7, 2010 (when the show was taped in Des Moines) then sold at Heritage, on November 10, 2010, for $836.50 (inc BP).

THE GREAT MAN VOTES WC, appraised for between $2-2,500.00, sold on October 3, 2010, for $36.00 (inc BP).

Lastly, the Wheeler & Woolsey WC, for HOLD 'EM JAIL, appraised in the $3000.00 range, sold, at Heritage, in their November 13, 2010 auction, for $239.00 (inc BP), as Angelo, the winner, mentioned above.

The trimmed, GWTW card, appraised between $1,500-2,000.00, has also been consigned to Heritage. The top border has been restored and it will be in their March 25-26, 2011 auction.

     

Quite stunning really.

But what is the advantage of giving out such false figures?  Just for AR ratings?

I can't see how telling a consignor (or in this case potential consignor) that their paper could be worth $2,000 only to acquire the consignment and have it sell for $40 is good business practice?!

[crowzilla]

Quite stunning really.

But what is the advantage of giving out such false figures?  Just for AR ratings?

I can't see how telling a consignor (or in this case potential consignor) that their paper could be worth $2,000 only to acquire the consignment and have it sell for $40 is good business practice?!

Obviously Rudy is giving inflated values in the hopes he can convince the AR producers to put his segments on TV and get airtime.

At least Heritage (or Bruce, or another consignment place) can use the excuse of "well, the market spoke and decided today your pieces were only worth...."
I would hate to be on the list of people that Rudy would recommended the owner call after getting that appraisal.  It is far worse when that person calls me and says "I have a WC for Snow White that has been appraised at $4000-5000 and am willing to sell for half of that" (which would be a low percentage I'd love to pay on desirable material). 
When you then try to honestly tell them that at this point you would sell a half sheet or insert in the $5K range, and for a WC you wouldn't pay more than $500, the person automatically labels you a thief trying to rip them off.

It does remind me of an opposite end of the spectrum story that happened to me a few years ago at a major poster show.
I had just gotten back to my table when a gentleman approached and asked if I was Sean Linkenback.  After telling him, yes I indeed was, he proceeded to pull an assortment of posters and lobbies from his briefcase while informing me that several people in the room told him that I was the person who needed to see the material he wanted to sell. 
He had an Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein insert, Realart lobbies from several top horror films, and a nice assortment of 50s sci-fi material.  I pulled out a notepad and proceeded to write down each piece and a price I was willing to pay.
I added it all up and then rounded it up to an even higher number.  He looked at the pad and told me that the price on the A&C Meet Frank alone was more than any other dealer had offered him on the entire collection (and no one else had even bothered to itemize anything). 
He happily left a few minutes later with an overflowing pocketful of money and I thought that was the end of the story.
Then a few months later I got a call from a gentleman who had an equally impressive collection who told me he called because his friend had told him how easy it had been to deal with me and how happy he was with the amount he received.
That was a nice day.

[brude]

To which Rudy re-replied:
"Gee, Bruce. I'm going to burn in the fires of hell over some movie posters?  I think the incest, two murders and the goat I raped will take precedence over  recommending a one sheet for Joe's Apartment to Heritage.  Regards, rudy"

 

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Bruce.. how did the Joe's Apartment one sheet thingy turn out??

[Bruce]

Most times when someone contacts him, and says, like, "I have 300 one-sheets from the past three years but all were heavily trimmed", he fires off a response telling them to contact me (Bruce).

But if they have anything of value, he tells them they can auction it at a certain auction house that gives him a kickback, or they can sell it to a certain private collector (who works at that same auction house).

A nice racket, but as I said, what does it profit a man if he gains the world, but loses his immortal soul?

Bruce