Idiots who bid early should be shot!

[Bruce]

That's because someone makes them an offer and they take it and avoid all fees.

 

Bruce

[Zorba]

Maybe its an offer they cant refuse? 

[CSM]

That's because someone makes them an offer and they take it and avoid all fees.

 

Bruce

Oh I am aware Bruce - just like the Mark of the Vampire daybill.  What pisses me off is that eBay does not give any explanation like they use to.  It simply says "bidding has ended on this item" with no indication WHY.  Of course WE know why but I think eBay should perhaps do more to discourage such actions.  

Yeah I know I am simply asking for another eBay miracle...

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Can somebody explain these bids on the 3 sheet Mole People?  That poster will probably sell for $1000+.  Do they enjoy seeing their names on the bidding list?  There is a .0000001% chance it will sell for less than $31.  Who will join me and T on the firing squad?

[CSM]

Apparently "nasdaq1958" is not the market speculator you want giving you advice...

[ddilts399]

I bid early if I see something I already own and dont care if I win, but I think is going to cheap or just drop a flyer bid on something I see when browsing and once again dont care if I win.

Happy to obtain, but dont think about it once the bid is put in.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I'm gonna bid $32 just to piss Mel off

[Bruce]

Some people like these truly have no clue of value, and are hoping for a "Hail Mary" result. But much more often they are simply bidding to get the item on their bid list, so they can quickly review them at the end (either to bid or to see what they go for).

Of course, some dealers bid to get their name in front of thousands of collectors for free! Cinemasterpiece, Posteritati, and Cinemaicons (all top dealers who constantly are looking for new customers) do this quite a bit. They rarely win much (because they usually bid wholesale), but they get their name seen. Although sometimes all three of these guys have surprised me with VERY healthy bids (perhaps they are bidding for clients, or they just "believe" in a poster)!

Bruce

[ddilts399]

Its like winning the lottery or hit wizardofodds if you are a gambler on the longshot hand... you never know... better to be in the game and laughed at than kicking yourself in the ass for not putting in the flyer bid.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

If you want to play the lowball early bid game, you're much better off on Ebay.  It is a total waste of time on Emovie.

What is the advantage of "getting on the bid list"?  I check the Emovie listings when they come out, put the ones I like on my watch list, and come back at the end of the auction.  I end up cutting 90% of the posters on my watch list and focus on the few that are still undervalued or that I really want. 

 

[Bruce]

Mel

Many people aren't nearly as computer savvy as you are and can't even figure out how to use the Watch List, and make their bid list be their watch list.

Low bids (that are wholesale prices) are NOT a waste of time! Almost every set of auctions I get at least one anguished e-mail from someone who forgot to bid, and they often ask me to offer the buyer double what they paid (and I do this as a free service). Most of the time the buyer says, "Thanks but no thanks", because they still want the item, even though they got a great deal. So all those people got a great deal simply because they felt it was worth their while to make 50 bids in order to get that one "steal".

Bruce

[Zorba]

Mel

Many people aren't nearly as computer savvy as you are and can't even figure out how to use the Watch List, and make their bid list be their watch list.

Forgetting the mole people which anyone can see is not going to be stolen at this low a point...Many people arent as price point savvy as Mel either.

I am ofcourse talking about myself. I still get confused. One of the posters I wanted last night went for three times what it went for the time before. While I bailed at the last high bid, I was left wondering if they knew something that I didnt.

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

I am of course talking about myself. I still get confused.

Z, we know you're a hustler, dude. Don't be playing that game 'round here

Early bidding is opium for the masses....

[Bruce]

Imagine a world of ONLY Thierrys and Mels! EVERY eBay item would have ZERO bids until the last three seconds, and then a bunch of snipe bids would come in, and everyone would get ONE "blind bid" with no clues as to how much to bid (or if there is any competition) and no chance whatsoever to re-bid!

Is that what ANYONE wants? The sellers would be crapping in their pants until the last second, and would be canceling items left and right, and the buyers would be completely in the dark!

Bruce

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Imagine a world of ONLY Thierrys and Mels! EVERY eBay item would have ZERO bids until the last three seconds, and then a bunch of snipe bids would come in, and everyone would get ONE "blind bid" with no clues as to how much to bid (or if there is any competition) and no chance whatsoever to re-bid!

Is that what ANYONE wants? The sellers would be crapping in their pants until the last second, and would be canceling items left and right, and the buyers would be completely in the dark!

Bruce

Your parade of horribles would be obviated if you started the bidding at realistic prices, of course.

[Harry Caul]

Your parade of horribles would be obviated if you started the bidding at realistic prices, of course.

Except neither you nor T (nor myself) like being told what to bid!

[Dr Hackenbush]

Your parade of horribles would be obviated if you started the bidding at realistic prices, of course.

Feck that!  I hate when Heritage does it and I'd hate it even more if Bruce did it.  Whose going to decide what the starting bid is, Bruce or his consignors?  What if a consignor wants to start bidding at what they believe to be FMV, what then?  Bruce will be left with a ton of unbid lots like HA.  Let the bidders decide what FMV is for a poster.  Some will take a hit and others will be dancing in the street

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Feck that!  I hate when Heritage does it and I'd hate it even more if Bruce did it.  Whose going to decide what the starting bid is, Bruce or his consignors?  What if a consignor wants to start bidding at what they believe to be FMV, what then?  Bruce will be left with a ton of unbid lots like HA.  Let the bidders decide what FMV is for a poster.  Some will take a hit and others will be dancing in the street

Starting the bidding at $1 for a $1000 poster is absurd.  Start the bidding at a price less than the seller wants but will accept, perhaps 2/3 of FMV.  That ends the wasteful and ridiculous early bids and keeps the seller from freaking out. 

I don't know what Heritage has done in the past but a lot of the start prices in the current signature auction seem to be following that pattern.  Of course, they have the BS "hidden reserve" that may pop up three days before the end of bidding and may have a lot of consignor-bidding shenanigans.

[CineMasterpieces]

I never bid "to get my name seen". I bid because I want the friggin poster! Bruce is right though in that I often bid early just to get it on my watch list. The only problem though is that I'm usually working around the time Bruce's auctions end and I often forget to go back and bid again to try and win. I wish they ended later like 7 or 8pm which is usually when I'm in front of my computer after dinner winding down the day.

[Dr Hackenbush]

Start the bidding at a price less than the seller wants but will accept, perhaps 2/3 of FMV

Therein lies the issue: Who's to decide what FMV is?  I can tell you from some of lots I'm following in HA's auction, that their assessment of FMV tends to be at the high end (to the point of being almost unrealistic with some pieces).  Which is why they have many lots that don't get bid on or sell for barely above the opening bid.  Granted, there are lots where the starting bid is below market prices, even with the BP figured in.  Hell, HA started the auction for the Tec 27 8.0 for $1 and that sold for over a million, so don't tell me that "it's absurd".  That book sold for more than any poster HA, or anyone else, has ever auctioned off

[paul waines]

I have never used a Snipper, why bother. I bid what I want to pay, if I win Great, if I don't there's always something else to bid on.

I do find it really funny when someone uses a snipper, or bids in the last few seconds, and still doesn't win.

I bid early sometimes, just to feel the water  

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

Doesn't matter anyway.  I'm sure Bruce & Co. have analyzed the issue and determined that starting bids at $1 ultimately results in higher prices.  Presumably it encourages more bidders to "get into the game" and some of them stick with it to the end, even though the more efficient strategy is to jump in at the end of the game.

What's more interesting is whether "snipe" bidding results in lower or higher prices.  Like the "dog that did not bark," Ebay does not discourage snipe bidding or allow extended auctions. Surely they have hired armies of MBAs to analyze the issue and determined that snipe bidding overall is beneficial and/or that the cost of administering extended bidding exceeds the benefit.

[Harry Caul]

I agree entirely Angelo.  Who cares if a $1,000 (or $1,000,000) gets knocked around for a few days at $31?  It will eventually pass that and the real collectors will step in to determine the current market value.  Mel, are you really loosing sleep because of these small timers having a thrill by bidding on a poster that is out of their league? 

As Angelo pointed out, the alternative is for the auction houses (or consignors) to tell us what a fair opening bid is.  I don't like that one bit and, outside this thread where you are probably just playing devils advocate, I don't think you would either.  How many posters have you bought on eBay did you get for less than 2/3rds the "fair market value"?  Whether through dedicated research on your part, sloppy descriptions or photos by the seller, or some combination of the two, I imagine a lot... and probably the majority!

If we let someone else set the FMV, this is what we end up with...  Heritage is selling an ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS In a Lonely Place 4 foglio in the upcoming signature auction. Their opening bid is $2,987.50 with BP.



However, as far as I can tell, they are the only auction house to sell one of these in the last decade (and an un-backed one at that).  When it sold in 2006 it garnered $2760 with BP. WTF, right?  So even though the poster market was a whole lot more healthy back in 2006, they are telling us that the STARTING BID this time around (and in this economy) is now higher than the previous selling price!

Do you really want to leave it to the auction houses or consignors to determine FMV and opening bids? 

[Dread_Pirate_Mel]

If we let someone else set the FMV, this is what we end up with...  Heritage is selling an ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS In a Lonely Place 4 foglio in the upcoming signature auction. Their opening bid is $2,987.50 with BP.

Makes perfect sense to me.  The consignor is not willing to sell for less than this and it otherwise would not be on the market. Starting at a realistic price greatly reduces the incentive for consignors to engage in shill bidding shenanigans and obviates the need for "hidden reserve" game-playing (which I despise).

[paul waines]

If you were selling that poster Harry, would you be glad to take a chance on starting at $1, no reserve?. I know I wouldn't. I would want a fair price for what it is, and at an auction that is not guaranteed, without a reserve. Unfortunately we need to look at selling as well as buying.    

Nice poster though.