Yes, Steve summarized his thoughts and posted to MoPo in what I believe was a very candid and spirited Q&A between him and Movie Poster Grading's Todd Spoor. Steve was echoing many sentiments heard from other collectors and Todd was very gracious in his explanations.
For those of you who are not MoPo members, Todd and Steve both agreed that we could re-post this Q&A here at APF because it is for the good of the hobby, a feeling we ALL share....
Here it is Part 1, verbatim:"Hello Todd,
A few questions/comments I have (extracted from my posts in All Poster Forum):
1.) "MPgrading.com was established to authenticate, grade, register and fingerprint every known poster whether being sold at auction or held in a private collection. " This reason for establishing mpgrading is likely not achievable is it? Thus the database being a good guide advising how many known copies there are will not really be particularily useful. Do you think mpgrading.com will really authenticate more than 1% of all posters in existence?
2.) The 'DNA' is not organic genetic DNA. The DNA is actually a very small object with a nine digit code written on it, something like a microdot.
3.) Can the DNA numbers be read under a high powered microscope?
4.) I believe describing the DNA in these terms is misleading: DNA, DNA sequence - most people would think you were refering to genetic DNA
5.) The website does not mention a DNA verification service to authenticate the poster's DNA. Do you offer this service and how much is it? Does it cost the same to read the DNA on every panel of my 24 sheet as my daybill? DNA verification is fundamental to match the poster with the history in the database, since the tag with the id number on it is not attached to most posters (eg 1,3,6 sheets) but attached to the grading sheet. If I cant authenticate the poster, what use is the service?
6.) If I can authenticate the DNA, will it be practical to do so? Can I authenticate it prior to purchasing on ebay or a bricks and mortar dealer? Not likely as I would need to pick it up and take it to the company. If I authenticate it after the sale will the seller refund me if it is not correct? Yes the dealer must, but in reality...?
7.) As mentioned by others, the grading is only accurate at the time of grading, not a minute later or more. Thus the grading system is only useful as a historical record/log book if you will, of the posters condition.
8.) My $39 24 sheet costs the same to authenticate, grade, tag and DNA as my $39 daybill. Odd?
9.) Does my 24-sheet get DNA on all the sheets or just on one sheet?
10.) Do you store my 24 sheet as one photo in the database or as multiple photos?
11.) You offer 1 in 33 trillion accuracy but you have a page on the website titled 'Registeration'. Typos on other pages.
12.) When I get my poster authenticated, a high resolution image of my poster is available to any paid member. Can I opt to have this image not available for public viewing? What image size is the image available to the public - 21 megapixels?
13.) Will my grading certificate list the authenticators name?
14.) Will a dealer for example be expected to not only stock/manage the poster but also both the Grading Document and Certificate of Authenticity (which has the tag attached)? How will the dealer not muddle up the certificates between multiple copies of the same poster they have as there is no identifier on the poster to cross reference except invisible stain? (paper posters not card stock posters with the tag on back). 2 days ago I received a poster from a dealer which was completely different poster to what I ordered. What hope is there with the certificates?
15.) "A random microscopic fiber sampling from both the front and back of the poster or lobby card can be done at the customers request for $30." What will I do with this particle - what is it good for? How do you ensure it is a random fibre (a computer program will assist with hundreds of hours of testing?)
16.) Will the DNA stain leave a mark over time? - How long did the test last?
17.) Is the DNA stain permanent? It needs to be or else the whole concept falls apart. The DNA is key to tracking a poster over its life and providing a count of the rarity of such posters in the database. So if it is permanent, are people happy about this. Say the mpgrading system turns out to be flawed, the stain is still permanently there.
18.) You mentioned "I have been working on this technology for the last year and half with the help of Rob Borst, Todd Feiertag and most recently Dan Strebin". Will these people play any further role in the business and what role will they have? Are they the 3 authenticators?
19.) The website states the team comprises an IT person, a photographer and an admin person. Are there no other people in the team?
20.) The sites says authentication charge is based on the value of the poster. How is this value determined? Do I tell you what I paid for it? Do I send you images in advance for you to determine the value for you then to provide a quote? Do you first grade it, look up price guides and then advise me what what I have to pay afterwards?
21.) Website quote: "Now, through the patent pending computer grading system, no matter who grades a poster, whether they are an expert or a complete novice, if they can count and measure, the grade will always be the same." How can a novice identify restoration such as respraying and paper replacement? It can smack a novice in the face and they couldn't spot it. A novice can't grade a poster accurately by just using count and measure.
22.) Does the grading process distinguish between damage to the border area and damage within the image area?
23.) There is no purpose for the patent pending micro chipped tag, only to sound fancy. Website: "This microchip contains all of the pertinent information about that poster and can only be read by our handheld scanner." If it can only be read by the company scanner and the company already has the information in the database, what is the point of reading it. The scanner only needs to read the id number on the tag to identify it.
24.) If the tag is tamperproof, why does the tag need to have DNA on it? Being tamperproof, the id number on the tag is tamperproof.
25.) In what circumstance would this statement come in handy? : website:"This DNA sequence is so secure it is admissible in a court of law. ". Organic DNA found at a crime scene might implicate someone, but how would it in this case?
26.) From the website: "The invisible ink code is used on the tag AND in a secret location on the poster." Tou stated it is located in the bottom corner and in the border and can be seen using uv light. That is not so secret?!
27.) The DNA can be easily obscured. So say the DNA is small and we know it is in the border and it can be seen under uv light, then this piece of the border can be removed or covered. That would be a small price to pay for someone with reasons to get around the system. Spray/paint over the DNA to cover it. Possibly even a transparent paint/coating over the DNA may prevent the reader reading it.
28.) The rigours of the linen backing process will remove the DNA? If so, the poster loses its history. You may still have the certificate but no DNA on the poster to confirm it against.
29.) Can the DNA be removed? if so, the DNA could be transferred to another poster, say using a cotton bud and a solvent.
30.) What kind of testing has been done to ensure not one solvent can remove some DNA? The website does not mention the DNA stain's durability or permanancy or guarantee it.
31.) Database corruption. Say you have a one of a kind poster, get it autheticated and stained. Remove the DNA eg by respraying part of the border in all innocence to remove a flaw (say, a DNA stain that is now discoloring for example, then it gets sold, the new buyer authenticates it. There are now 2 posters in existance indicated by the database when in fact there is only one. You would also get 2 posters in the database if the poster gets linen backed washing of the stain between authentications
32.) Conflict of interest - Todd Freiertag being involved in the authentication of his Frankenstein poster up for sale?
33.) How can one authenticate the grading of the Frankenstein poster on Heritage? Or any poster graded by mpgrading.com? There is no photo of the tag or ID number to look up the mpgrading database. There is in fact currently no database to lookup on mpgrading.com.
34.) Is the timing of the Frankenstein poster auction and launch of the company related? Is this company setup to add additional credibility to auction? Will the company be around after there are no more posters left to be sold by stakeholders in the company? <Cynical me>
35.) Where are images of the tag for us to see? I have doubts one exists because where is one?
36.) Your comments: "This tag CANNOT be removed from the poster with out it going blank, therefore it CANNOT be placed on a fake". I would like to know how this technically happens. Is part of the tag permanently attached to the poster and when the tag removed the connection is broken? Maybe glue related - has the glue some special properties for this functionality which may harm the poster ie it wouldnt just be acid free wheat paste.
37.) Apart from the microchip serving no purpose, "the microchip tag that CAN NOT be decoded". How are you so sure it cant be decoded. Your machine can decode it.
Thats all the questions I have at the moment,
Cheers,
Steve Enders"
and, Todd responded:"Wow, where to begin...
I guess I will have to address each line although I will not bore the group with items I have already addressed in previous posts.
1. It is a "goal," plain and simple. I have no idea what percentage we will eventually grade and tag in the years to come, hopefully enough so that a census or registry becomes significant so that new people coming into the hobby will find it relevant.
2. The DNA is organic, hence the term, Deoxyribonucleic acid: here is the definition for anyone who fell asleep in Biology class. (DNA) is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms. This is the corner stone of what we are doing. Our invisible ink stain contains organic DNA, the 9 digit number (laced with DNA) is OUR reference code so that we can track every poster that comes through and it isn't confused with 50 posters of the same title, Example; 900000001, 900000002 and so on.
3. The DNA can be read and tested to make sure it is the DNA that has been licensed to our company. We are partnered with the same DNA company that has been used by the Olympics, NFL, Hockey Hall of Fame and many leading Sports Memorabilia Authenticating Companies.
4. Described above. We are referring to GENETIC DNA
5. There is no cost to the customer to check one of our DNA laced items for the first 5 items in question. We do not lace every panel of a 24 sheet. Thanks for pointing that out, we need to add that to the website, We are NOT currently offering 24 sheets in our service. Any poster we grade and Authenticate can referenced by the 9 digit invisible ink stain.
6. yes, it can be sent to us to be re-authenticated or it can be brought to one of our Authorized dealers who will have a High Frequency UV light reader. Or the poster can be compared to the high resolution 21 megapixel picture on our website which will be the easiest to use as a visual marker.
7. EVERY movie poster grader from Heritage to Bruce to Christies, the grades are only good while on the premises since NO ONE wants to encapsulate a poster. This system at least represents a better visual marker with the High Res image and the Grading Flaw scale that can be used a reference. As posted before...
8. It is odd... Size doesn't matter, the number of people looking at the poster is the extra charge. Not that odd actually. 1 grader/authenticator cost X amount in salary. 3 graders/authenticators cost 3 times more. (Adrian, that line is for you.) $75 for 3 leading people in the Industry to spend their time looking at poster is incredibly cheap in my estimation. Which is why CGC charges $1,500. John Davis of Poster Mountain charges $150 for his Authentication service and he is leaving a very VISIBLE mark on the back of the poster.
9. No
10. All poster are stored as one Image.
11. Thanks for pointing out the typo. You had a typo in line 4. "referring has two (r's) not one"
12. We are NOT charging for membership to view images.
13. No the Authenticator's name is not listed for the public. It is internal when they log into the system we can see who has looked at what poster. If this is something the public deems important, we will look into it. Is it important to you?
14. Dealers can order the hand held UV indicator so that posters of the same title are NOT confused, again a secondary check can be the High Res image. Certificates are passed on from the dealer to the customer. Certificate contains the DNA stain as well.
15. The fiber sample is not for the customer. The fiber sample is used to test the paper. If you really want the fiber sample, we can send it back to you.
16. The DNA invisible ink stain will NOT leave a mark over time. It has been tested out to 15 years so far. Will the Great Pyramid ever crumble into dust? Who knows, but I'm sure people will have an opinion on this, Adrian???
17. Yes it is permanent, but it is INVISIBLE to the human eye!!!!! Are you HAPPY there are microscopic germs in you mouth right now? Do they bother you?
18. Please read the website. They are Graders and Authenticators.
19. Are you interested in a job? I fail to see why this has any importance unless you are with the IRS or Immigration.
20. Good question, the value is based off the Fair Market Value. We run an average off of Heritage and eMoviePoster. Are we going to quibble over whether the item's value is $500 or $501, the answer is no. We will defer to the lower value. We are not here to screw old Mr. Retiree out of his $10-$75 so he can get his poster evaluated by us.
21. Not to be taken literally, a novice is NOT grading the poster, which is why we have Industry Experts doing it who have spent more time around valuable movie poster than almost anyone on the planet.
22. yes, border damage and image area damage have different weights assigned to them.
Half way there, I will continue later with the rest of the answers when I have another 2 hours to devote.
Two question answered out of order.
32. Todd Feiertag was NOT involved in the grading of his own poster. There was a room full of people that can attest to this.
33. We will be launching the site officially to the general public along with search features Nov 1st.
34. Yes, we plan on closing our doors as soon as the Frankenstien is sold. (this is a joke) I just love sinking my (and my wife's and 2 children's) live savings into this technology so that Todd Feiertag can sell HIS poster.
By the way, some of my answers were for pure amusement ( I know this is boring some people to death) and in no way are attacks on Steve or Adrian's friendly round of questioning. Just my dry sense of humor. I have thick skin or I wouldn't have placed my neck on the MOPO chopping block.
I will try to make our website MORE clear so that these questions are answered. Without this forum what would Steve have to do with his day in order to ask 37 questions!!! Nice job Steve, also, remind me to talk to you FIRST if I ever start another business!
Warm Regards,
Todd Spoor"
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