Author Topic: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original  (Read 3390 times)

Offline mwright

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Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« on: February 01, 2018, 01:28:25 PM »
Well this poster is showing it's ugly face on eBay after a few years not being there. The seller is selling it as an original and it most certainly is not. There were no 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW posters made - this has been verified by Tongdee who painted it. The 1 sheet is also doctored in Photoshop - the line was removed from where the 2 boards it was painted on meet. There is some duplicated image from this area as well. I've let the seller know but of course there was no response.


« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 02:22:03 PM by mwright »

Offline erik1925

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 06:58:27 PM »
Great info about these reworked and photoshopped fake APOC NOW posters, Mike.

Good to know and what to watch out for, when on the prowl for a copy.  thumbsup.gif


-Jeff

Offline mwright

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 06:08:45 PM »
Guess there really is no way to get eBay to stop these type of listings. Also notified the seller a few times and of course there was no reply as the price goes higher. Seller is 865hiawatha. Here is the listing of the fake poster:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apocalypse-Now-Thai-movie-poster-21-1-4-034-x-30-3-4-034-/183046206805?

This particular poster has caused so much trouble.

Offline erik1925

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 06:44:43 PM »
Mike, the above ebay seller has this poster described as be approx 21x31 inches.

Wasnt the APOC NOW a poster larger? Like a double panel size? What do the legit copies measure?


-Jeff

Offline mwright

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2018, 07:01:24 PM »
2 sheet when combined measures roughly 42"x31"

Offline erik1925

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2018, 10:55:00 PM »
Guess there really is no way to get eBay to stop these type of listings. Also notified the seller a few times and of course there was no reply as the price goes higher. Seller is 865hiawatha. Here is the listing of the fake poster:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apocalypse-Now-Thai-movie-poster-21-1-4-034-x-30-3-4-034-/183046206805?

This particular poster has caused so much trouble.

It's almost like this seller thinks he's "protecting" himself, as to whether this is a repro print or not (even though he calls it an original Thai movie poster).

He's got it listed, NOT in the movie poster section, but in Home & Garden > Home Decor > Posters & Prints

Why put it here, when it would get many more views, and possibly more bids, in the original Movie poster area?  hmmm.gif
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 10:56:09 PM by erik1925 »


-Jeff

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 03:33:16 AM »
Poster sold for $180+

It's almost like this seller thinks he's "protecting" himself, as to whether this is a repro print or not (even though he calls it an original Thai movie poster).
He's got it listed, NOT in the movie poster section, but in Home & Garden > Home Decor > Posters & Prints
Why put it here, when it would get many more views, and possibly more bids, in the original Movie poster area?  hmmm.gif

I have no idea who the seller is, may be the seller is just a newbie collector and a newbie Ebay user doing a spring cleaning?  May be he even don't care if description is right and price is gonna reach? May be he bought it because he simply liked the image or big fan of the movie and don't want it anymore, reason for selling it without reserve.

As for the rest (protecting himself from selling repro), aren't you extrapolating?  EMP called it "commercial" poster; some will call it "bootleg" or "original repro", others "fake".  You call it "fake" because reproduction of the 2-sheet into a 1-sheet was never authorised by the artist.  Yet, it has been done and these posters are sold by few individuals, nonetheless we have no information who did it, what year they did, how many batch or sheets they printed.  In my opinion, if only one batch was printed and if this poster comes from this batch, then I think calling it "fake" is inappropriate although I agree that having "original" is misleading. To me, it is an "original bootleg", "original repro" or "original commercial poster".

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Guess there really is no way to get eBay to stop these type of listings. Also notified the seller a few times and of course there was no reply as the price goes higher. Seller is 865hiawatha. Here is the listing of the fake poster:
This particular poster has caused so much trouble.

No, there is no way to have these listing out of Ebay, notifying seller and going after Ebay or the seller is futile.

Why don't do you do like me, Erik1925, that is to write directly to the person who sold it to you and tell him he is selling fake... and write to other thai sellers to get more info about this fake batch (year, quantity, etc.) instead.  And if you have enough information to claim it is a fake, why don't you name the thai seller instead of the ebayer.   

I appreciate your concern, but if you wanna play the whistleblower, put all you cards on the table (oh you did in another thread, well done). 

Did you write to this Thai seller?  Did you write to other Thai sellers to get clarification?   I did, I wrote to him on 14th Sept 2015, just after your PM telling me I bought fakes.  I even confronted him during my second visit, talking about the line in the 1sheet, he told me that another seller (well known here) is the one making and selling them.  He put all blame on her for sure.  As for me, I do regret that Phea never told me about Santi selling fakes when I spoke by email about meeting each other and place to shop for posters (I said I was going to see Santi), nor telling me 1sh are fake when I asked for availability... and I also regret that no-one told me about Santi here when I posted my first encounter in 2013.  No one even bother to update thread to warn people about the guy (which I am going to do now).  Poster sellers in Thailand are few, a small world, to me it seems a small group of people tried to cash in on some posters until things became out of proportion, resulting in this ostrich attitude. My personal conclusion is that anyone buying Thai poster should be wary of all sellers, unless proved the contrary.  We are both fighting for the same thing for sure but clearly have different approach, when cheated I speak out and confront people to get the truth and share that information. And I am not afraid, I name and shame.  The photoshop line was spotted because you had suspicion, it was exposed here and in some website, and yet, not a single name. It took 5 years to get a name.

"I am the one who bought posters (Dr. No & Apocalypse Now) three weeks ago.
So I learned you sold me reproduction posters (not original).  You are liar.
You can reimburse me on Paypal or by bank transfer, I shall sent the poster back to you.
Let me know if you plan to reimburse me.
I shall also contact my bank to see if I can revert the payment.
If you refuse, next time I am in Bangkok, I shall come with the posters, payment proof... and will also post online about you selling fake posters.
Send my money back now !! Waiting for your confirmation.
Thanks
"

"It has been for a several years that we do sell the poster as well as be 3a first of poster seller in online. Our shop is well known.
Every time after we finished bidding the poster that got high price, the other seller will offer the price in order to find the same poster as well.
Somehow they don't know where it from but we know the source. It makes us get a problem to deal in the same price that have brought before. Because the buzz of high price gone wide in market, so it makes us to stop selling online. There are a lot of many poster still out there and some of it got less because we sell it in the shop. Actually, the poster that you brought from us is the one that we intend to sell to someone because he ordered it.
If you want to return the poster back please contact the address below
We will return your money immediately after received the poster from you. Please send parcel back with registered airmail.
Our shop open since 1997, the only one shop, no branch, never move before. So, there is no reason to be afraid and sell the fake one.
Thanks
Santi Classicmovieposter
"

"The posters you sold me are 100% fake !
I don't trust you anymore Santi, you lied to me... so why should I sent you the poster and expect a payment back ?  It is difficult to trust you now.
Looks like everybody here (collectors and sellers) know you are selling fake.  Even Tongdee is aware of this.
You reimburse me first and I shall send the posters back to you
If not, I shall act in one way or another... and I am sure we will meet again, be prepare.
"

"I have informed all information to you
and it's your decision to trust as well.
The return of poster, you may let someone return it to us, or send it by post office with tax number.
However, I need to get my poster back first before return your money.
We had opened official shop, and it always been for long time.
Just let you know, we will never cheat and disappear from you. This returning of goods is the standard swap that every buyer and seller do. You return my product and I return your money. 
The Siam classic poster shop has been in the Siam center, the central of Bangkok for almost 18 years.
We never move the shop to anywhere. That's why I would to tell you that please do not judge us as thief. If you got the problem, come and find me in Bangkok. I'm ready to meet you all the times.

Offline erik1925

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 01:06:11 PM »
BBoss, I never said the poster was fake.

I said it was curious and interesting about why the seller had it listed in the Home and Garden section/Prints and Posters area rather than the movie poster section. And I have written sellers on ebay from time to time when there was a question about a poster, or maybe they were selling a Portal undersized reproduction. Some have replied back, others have been silent.

My post was just thinking/questioning out loud. Others that know more details about this poster are the ones who can label it fake or not.

mwright (Mike) said he did write to the above seller and was ignored and that the auction continued to run. Sellers on ebay (of any kind of item or collctible) do this all the time, even when they have been alerted that something may not be the real deal deal.


-Jeff

Offline MoviePosterBid.com

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 04:00:30 PM »
ebay doesn't know what to do about such material any more than they know how to deal with fake art that fills their website, largely because you will never find a poster or art expert working there

for instance, if you search for Charles Schulz art or Bob kane or Joe Shuster or Andy Warhol etc etc etc, there are dozens of fake pieces
the sellers will say 'original art signed by schulz. I don't know if this is an original by the artist or not' and cover their asses

how would ebay know the difference between a fake pulp fiction and a real one? It's your word against the seller.

no doubt, ebay has become a shit show

but it isn't just ebay. In comic art, there are galleries all over the country selling fake pieces, because they don't know better.
I have gotten 2 inquiries over 20 years from galleries looking for authentications of Bob Kane art and almost every piece you will see are
1) Fake
2) Not by Bob kane even when real, no matter whether his signature is on the art (Bob never drew anything. He probably didn't even draw the first story in Detective #27. He hired artists to do the work by contract)

it's a waste of time to try to save bidders on ebay.

Movieposterbid.com is the FIRST All-Movie Poster Auction Site. We're not #1, but we try harder
"LIKE" MoviePosterBid.com on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/Movieposterbidcom

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Offline Charlie

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Re: Fake Thai 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW poster sold as original
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 10:03:53 PM »
Well this poster is showing it's ugly face on eBay after a few years not being there. The seller is selling it as an original and it most certainly is not. There were no 1-sheet APOCALYPSE NOW posters made - this has been verified by Tongdee who painted it. The 1 sheet is also doctored in Photoshop - the line was removed from where the 2 boards it was painted on meet. There is some duplicated image from this area as well. I've let the seller know but of course there was no response.




The other dead give away is the separation in the text.  I think we did this analysis a few years back - There is a clear seperation in “Bottoms” and other text...