The BEST Idea Bruce has had

[crowzilla]

Quote from Bruce recently: "I am strongly considering no longer taking low value rolled posters at all. They are a huge money loser for us. Then we won't have these kinds of issues at all."

This would probably be the very best move you could make for both emovieposter (and to help other dealers).
Why? Well let's look at the numbers you reported for this past year:

Bruce said that in 2016, he sold 87,515 items for $19 or less.
We also know that Bruce loses money on those 87,515 sales as "Note that we will not come close to breaking even on the sub-$20 items, because we have an hour of labor in every item, and we don't get enough to pay for that hour for items that sell for under $20, plus we still have to pay all the web hosting fees, advertising fees, and credit card fees"

Those 87,515 items equal 87,515 hours of labor.  A 40 hour workweek, times 52 weeks a year is 2,080 hours of work per employee a year.  Bruce has 29 employees, so that means the most (non-overtime) labor they can do in a year is 60,320 hours.

Bruce's employees must EACH work nearly a year and a half just to supply the labor needed to auction one year's worth of sub $20 posters, or they each have to work 58 hours a week to cover it.

And that's just the items that sell for sub-$20!!  What about the other 50,000 items a year he sells for more than $20?
That's another 33 hours of work per person!  (50,000 items, divided by 29 people, divided by 52 weeks).

This means Bruce makes each employee work 91 hours a week!  If poster collectors have a heart and any compassion at all they will demand that this travesty be stopped right away.

I know what you're thinking "that's only 13 hours a day, I would love to spend 13 hours a day looking at posters"
This might be true, but it doesn't mean others should be forced into labor for 91 hours a week to make sure that some posters get sold for  dollar or two.

So have a heart Bruce, stop making your employees work 91 hours a week and stop selling sub-$20 posters.

[jayn_j]

oh shit.  Here we go

[Klownicle]

Dat math tho.  Interesting point of view of the math.

[CSM]

I figure if you are a true 5 Star Elite collector you're putting in 13+ hours per day so why shouldn't those bringing the pretty bits of paper to market put the same effort in?

I mean Mel was putting in like 25-26 hours per day so what's 13 really?

[jedgerley]

I mean Mel was putting in like 25-26 hours per day so what's 13 really?

This is a true statement...hard to believe but It is true. I suspect that guy could stop time like that 80's TV show.

[archie leach]

I figure if you are a true 5 Star Elite collector you're putting in 13+ hours per day so why shouldn't those bringing the pretty bits of paper to market put the same effort in?

I mean Mel was putting in like 25-26 hours per day so what's 13 really?

Best post of the week...

[Neo]

I figure if you are a true 5 Star Elite collector you're putting in 13+ hours per day so why shouldn't those bringing the pretty bits of paper to market put the same effort in?

I mean Mel was putting in like 25-26 hours per day so what's 13 really?

Amazingly, there were people spending about as much time pestering him.

[Neo]

Getting back to this thread, I must say, impressive work there, Crowzilla.  I’m sure the world’s greatest mathematicians and statisticians would be astonished by your amazing stroke of genius, that you so graciously contributed to this thread.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Getting back to this thread, I must say, impressive work there, Crowzilla.  I’m sure the world’s greatest mathematicians and statisticians would be astonished by your amazing stroke of genius, that you so graciously contributed to this thread.

is that what your college professors called "a rebuttal"?

[Neo]

is that what your college professors called "a rebuttal"?

 


I should have explained a couple of errors in Sean's analysis.

1. An hour of work does not always mean “precisely 60 minutes of work completed by one human.”  If you take your car to a mechanic and the AllData pay rate is one hour of labor, that is the generally accepted amount of time it could take for one mechanic to complete the work.  Due to various circumstances, often times it may take as little as a few minutes to complete the work, while other times it may take more than an hour.  However, unless there is a special consideration, the customer will be charged for one hour of work.  You need take into consideration the discrepancy of the total number of hours a shop has billed for, vs. how many actual hours were, in fact, worked by employees, for valid calculations.

2. When Sean calculated the time associated with the items eMovie sold, he did not consider in his calculations the number of bulk lots they sold.  There could be dozens of items in a bulk lot, thus, one would need to, separate the bulk lots from individual lots, and average number of items in each bulk lot.  That would yield a more accurate statistic for the amount of time and the final sales price of each item sold.

There are also other things to consider in an analysis such as this.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I should have explained a couple of errors in Sean's analysis.

1. An hour of work does not always mean “precisely 60 minutes of work completed by one human.”  If you take your car to a mechanic and the AllData pay rate is one hour of labor, that is the generally accepted amount of time it could take for one mechanic to complete the work.  Due to various circumstances, often times it may take as little as a few minutes to complete the work, while other times it may take more than an hour.  However, unless there is a special consideration, the customer will be charged for one hour of work.  You need take into consideration the discrepancy of the total number of hours a shop has billed for, vs. how many actual hours were, in fact, worked by employees, for valid calculations.

2. When Sean calculated the time associated with the items eMovie sold, he did not consider in his calculations the number of bulk lots they sold.  There could be dozens of items in a bulk lot, thus, one would need to, separate the bulk lots from individual lots, and average number of items in each bulk lot.  That would yield a more accurate statistic for the amount of time and the final sales price of each item sold.

There are also other things to consider in an analysis such as this.

actually NEO, you just explained an error in your analysis & support for Sean's.

First of all, I know all about Chilton's Labor Cost Guide... because I grew up in the auto business for my father & the butcher business for my uncle.
So I can tear down a 1966 Mustang & rebuild it as well as take a side of beef & turn it into steaks.

after he posted last night, Sean and I discussed this very issue.

So yes, if you were to take a single poster and run it through a business from start to finish - all by itself - it might take an hour from pull to picture to upload to listing to pulling & packing & shipping (actually, I know better. 30 min max). However it is disingenuous to say that is indeed how it works and so it takes an hour.

You may also know that in the Chiltons, it will say "replace radiator 2 hours" or "replace water pump 4 hours".. but it will also say "replace radiator & water pump, 4.5 hours"

All Sean did was take the numbers supplied by the advertiser, analyze them & assess the validity of the claim. You just proved his point, that the claim it takes an hour per item, is false.

[crowzilla]

Neo
You are incorrect, and I will only point out the most obvious one, your second point about bulk lots.  It doesn't matter how many items are in these lots (and many times just a few are pictured with wording to the effect of you have to accept that there are lots more), because each lot counts as one item towards the total number of items sold during the year. Perhaps this is why Bruce states that he has "an hour of labor in each item", but it doesn't matter. If a bulk lot of 100 items sells for $100, Bruce counts it as a $100 item sold, not 100 items selling for $1. So the calculation is correct as to the information supplied by the seller. They sold 139,114 items and they have an hour of labor into the selling of each item, thus 139,114 hours of labor.

Selling posters is not car repair. Bruce doesn't get paid by the job, he gets paid by commission, and it is his statement that the commission he makes on an item that sells for less than $20 does not cover the cost of selling the item because he has an "hour of labor in each item", not because he charges an hour of labor for selling the item. There is a difference. I have no reason to take Bruce at less than his word, and am sure that after so many years he knows how long it takes for each item to be processed.

Bruce is a big boy, if he felt there are any inaccuracies he is more than capable of pointing them out himself (as we have seen time and time again), but I'm certain he thanks you for your feeble attempt.

[Neo]

Selling posters is not car repair.

Thanks for the insight, Sean. I truly thought that car repair is selling posters.

First of all, I know all about Chilton's Labor Cost Guide... because I grew up in the auto business for my father & the butcher business for my uncle.
So I can tear down a 1966 Mustang & rebuild it as well as take a side of beef & turn it into steaks.

You are a man of many talents. 

We could carry on with this thread, with me explaining what I was saying, what Bruce may have been saying, the errors in this analysis, your and Sean's analyses of my analysis, etc., but frankly, I'm not interested.




I need to get to the beach. 

[crowzilla]

Thanks for the insight, Sean. I truly thought that car repair is selling posters.

It would not be the first mistake you've made in this thread.
Enjoy the beach.

[eatbrie]

I still fail to understand the point of this thread.  Obviously, it doesn't take an hour to pull a poster from a tube, photograph it and list it.  Like Rich said, 1/2 hour is more like it.  I would probably say even less than that since the folks at Emovieposter probably know what they're doing and have it down to a science.  Obviously, Bruce makes some profit on $20 posters.  Probably not as much as he would like and certainly not profitable enough to run a business, but a profit nevertheless.  Bruce was trying to make a point, and when you try to make a point, you exaggerate things to get your point across.  We all do it, and who cares?

So what if Bruce doesn't want to sell sub $20 posters?  Get them on EBay, it's full of them.  Feel free to disagree, but I think Bruce runs a top notch business, great posters, descriptions and packaging, is extremely accommodating, and I, for one, am getting tired of these constant gratuitous attacks.

T

[eatbrie]

I mean Mel was putting in like 25-26 hours per day so what's 13 really?

Hahaha...  Completely forgot about that guy.  What happened to him?  Anyone on this forum still in touch with him?

T

[MoviePosterBid.com]

T

serious question

we talk about all kinds of dealers and so does Bruce - all the time.

We talk about high-priced dealers and low-priced dealers. We have seen articles on Dave L, Posteritati, Posterazzi, people have spoken about MoviePosterBid, emovieposter, ebay, Heritage. People have posted about linenbackers, including the infamous Posterfix.

People talk about auction houses, the good, the bad & the ugly

Bruce talks about other dealers and auction houses in damned never every post and certainly in all of his seller's posts.

the posts about all of these people and entities ranges from positive to downright ugly & untrue

so taking all of that in, what makes any person, dealer or auction house 'off-limits' as long as the commentary is fair?

[MoviePosterBid.com]

Hahaha...  Completely forgot about that guy.  What happened to him?  Anyone on this forum still in touch with him?

T

and I don't think I know anyone who actually speaks to Mel. I'm curious what he's doing also

[eatbrie]

so taking all of that in, what makes any person, dealer or auction house 'off-limits' as long as the commentary is fair?

One, because I don't think it's fair at all.  This thread brings nothing to the conversation expect some ridiculous numbers that mean absolutely nothing.  Two, because I see it pretty one sided these days and I fail to understand why.  Three, because we once said there shouldn't be any dealers in-fighting, and I've seen a lot of it recently.

I thought Bruce was too harsh on that guy who complained about his posters not being listed on Emovie and I told him so privately.  The guy, can't remember his name, was a little impatient, but his question had merit and I have no problems with it.  It's a discussion.  What I do not want are other dealers jumping in the fray just because they don't like Bruce, because he sells too much, makes too much money, or whatever the reason.  There are ten of you guys in the hobby?  Five that truly matter.  The bashing doesn't look good, trust me.  Discussions between dealers and collectors are more than welcome and I encourage them.  Dealers criticizing other dealers are not.

T

[crowzilla]

So what if Bruce doesn't want to sell sub $20 posters?  Get them on EBay, it's full of them.  Feel free to disagree, but I think Bruce runs a top notch business, great posters, descriptions and packaging, is extremely accommodating, and I, for one, am getting tired of these constant gratuitous attacks.

T

I totally agree that Bruce runs a top notch business that is extremely accommodating. 
But obviously these sub-$20 posters cause him great headaches, and he is thinking about dropping them.
I am encouraging him to do just that, save the time, save the hassle, make more money.
It's a win-win for everyone.
 

[eatbrie]

I totally agree that Bruce runs a top notch business that is extremely accommodating. 
But obviously these sub-$20 posters cause him great headaches, and he is thinking about dropping them.
I am encouraging him to do just that, save the time, save the hassle, make more money.
It's a win-win for everyone.
 

How nice of you.  I'm sure he appreciates the gesture.

T

[MoviePosterBid.com]

One, because I don't think it's fair at all.  This thread brings nothing to the conversation expect some ridiculous numbers that mean absolutely nothing.  Two, because I see it pretty one sided these days and I fail to understand why.  Three, because we once said there shouldn't be any dealers in-fighting, and I've seen a lot of it recently.

I thought Bruce was too harsh on that guy who complained about his posters not being listed on Emovie and I told him so privately.  The guy, can't remember his name, was a little impatient, but his question had merit and I have no problems with it.  It's a discussion.  What I do not want are other dealers jumping in the fray just because they don't like Bruce, because he sells too much, makes too much money, or whatever the reason.  There are ten of you guys in the hobby?  Five that truly matter.  The bashing doesn't look good, trust me.  Discussions between dealers and collectors are more than welcome and I encourage them.  Dealers criticizing other dealers are not.

T

then how about telling him to stop bagging other dealers in his promo also?
period. No more critiquing of any dealers in any way.

no more commenting on Posterfix, no more commenting on ebay dealers who are overpriced, underpriced etc?
no more comments on Dave Lieberman's high prices or Sam Sarowitz's
No comments from people who don't like Heritage
how far should it go?

I don't see anything unfair in this thread, largely because it is only commenting on stuff Bruce himself says over & over & over, right here.. on this forum.

It comments on stuff he promotes in his email exchanges, in his email membership posts, in his ads appearing in Classic Images.

It's commenting on public information that is made public by the guy who showers commentary on other dealers as part of his promotional scheme.

what can be wrong about it?

Personally, I don't care if people want to talk about my business, largely because I have answers. If there's something I'm saying or claiming that is false in my ads, I would expect people to want to make comment about it. As a matter of fact, because people will comment about it is one reason I don't make such foolishness part of my business philosophy.

I think it is wrong-headed to cut off conversation about any dealer or auction house, as that is how new collectors get to find out stuff & avoid problems. If people are lying, yes that should be censored or deleted. As long as what is said is honest and fair - no matter who is saying it - there is nothing wrong with it.

[crowzilla]

How nice of you.  I'm sure he appreciates the gesture.

T

Hope so.
No one wants to see their favorite dealer go out of business because they lose money on 2/3 of everything they sell (I remember when it was only 50%, so it seems to be  getting worse).
dump the losers, concentrate on the winners and be around for many more years.

[MoviePosterBid.com]

I thought Bruce was too harsh on that guy who complained about his posters not being listed on Emovie and I told him so privately.

and yes, except I'm not sure why it has to be privately.

factually, the correct customer service response should have been:

"Hi Klownicle. I'm sorry you're having an issue. can you email me with all the details so I can look into it & see how we can resolve it quickly"

that would have ended it fast, instead it was an unhinged rant. Whose fault is that?

[crowzilla]

  Discussions between dealers and collectors are more than welcome and I encourage them.  Dealers criticizing other dealers are not.

T

I didn't ask Rich to jump in this thread,  but I didn't see him criticize Bruce in it either.