fixatives

[USMC8808]

HI, I got from Pulp Fixn;s website that Blair matte is good for obviously matte finishes, but what is used for other things like satin, gloss and high gloss?

[erik1925]

Are you talking about some kind of spray fixative that one would apply to a backed poster, as some kind of "final step?"

It almost sounds like you want to apply this to give a poster a satin (matte) or gloss/high gloss "finish."  Am I understanding your question correctly?

[USMC8808]

Yes. It would be a final coat if any in-painting was done. On Pulp Fixin's website he mentioned that Blair had an excellent final coat in a matte finish.  I am just wondering what to do with some of my '70s posters that are very glossy.  It seems it is a relatively common practice to use colored pencils and even acrylics to touch up posters.  Also he mentioned on his website that there are people that want "Mint" posters. I have to consider myself to be part of that crowd....as long as "Minting" a poster seems to be common and acceptable practice.  With my collection, when I first started to collect I would buy posters in "Good" condition thinking I will just restore it down the road. Now, I try hard to stay away from a "Good" poster and try to buy "Fine" or better.  I am also staying away from any posters with pieces missing.

[erik1925]

Interesting to read about the spray fixative/sealer.

Ive had a few things backed (non-glossy posters), telling the restorer I wanted them conserved with only minimal touch-up, using water colored pencils or water colors. In my discussion with him about what all would be done, I know that none were sprayed with any kind of sealer or fixative, as a final, last step.

Im assuming, too, that the Blair brand of sprays are all water soluble?

[USMC8808]

To me, it seems like when you get to the point of completely over spraying the poster, you have gone beyond the point of no return. I don't think Blair is water soluble. One time I found a glossy spray that was soluble in alcohol, but I have completely lost track of it.

When I was searching for a place that would let me come in and watch, I found a very upscale poster seller (totally forget her name) and once the poster was completely backed and conserved/restored she sprayed the entire poster with....I forget what.  I just started to take notes. There was a time I could rely on the brain to remember things, but those days are over! haha

[erik1925]

If nothing else, dont use a spray (not saying that Blair is) that is Not water soluble. Any kind of color media used for retouching should all be water based and you dont want to have a spray applied that will lock it all down and make it permanent. (Unless you may want that, of course). 

[Charlie]

Fixative is not water soluble...  It can be archival but is not reversible.  On my pulpfixin blog I was trying to recreate the look that many linenbacked poster achieve as I experimented with the process.  

But my feelings now is that there are clearly two paths one can take; either conservation or restoration.  Conservation would not include fixative or anything that can't be reversed with water.  Restoration would and many of the top restorers probably use it along with acrylics and colored pencils (unless you request they don't).  I've seen boxes of fixatives on PM's blog and Backing to the Future states they use it. Dario says that he does not. I've used it once since my early days to restore the color of a poster as a last resort.  The fixative can help bring back color of paper that has a film develop on the top from a reaction with the chemicals.  

I've also used it when restoring photographs and the finish really depends on the application.  If you spray heavy you will get more gloss/semi not matter the type.  If you get high gloss it will be high gloss.

Colored pencils, acrylics and fixatives are not easily reversible... I've unbacked a poster covered in acrylics - they don't just float off as some suggest.  In fact they embed in the paper and you end up with a big mess when you try to revers it.

I would also suggest you start a single thread and ask these questions to keep them all in one place.

[erik1925]

I know for a fact that neither PM or Mario Cueva ever used any kind of sealer or fixative spray (as a final, last step) on anything either has worked on for me.

Before anything was done, I asked and met with both, and had both John and Mario tell me exactly what would be done, from start to finish.  The word "fixative" never came up in the conversations. (Using this product on a film poster would, imo, be almost as bad as dry mounting a poster to a piece of foam core with a spray adhesive or laminating a poster. To me, it is, in a way, devaluing and "destroying" that paper).

Now if a customer wants this product to be used on his/her poster, that's a different story. But as matter of general practice, I cant imagine any good and respected restorer simply applying this product as the 'finishing touch' to every (or even most) poster conservation/restoration jobs they do. Otherwise, how could they say their work is reversible with water, when a spray sealer would negate that option.

[Charlie]

I know for a fact that neither PM or Mario Cueva ever used any kind of sealer or fixative spray (as a final, last step) on anything either has worked on for me.

Before anything was done, I asked and met with both, and had both John and Mario tell me exactly what would be done, from start to finish.  The word "fixative" never came up in the conversations. (Using this product on a film poster would, imo, be almost as bad as dry mounting a poster to a piece of foam core with a spray adhesive or laminating a poster. To me, it is, in a way, devaluing and "destroying" that paper).

Now if a customer wants this product to be used on his/her poster, that's a different story. But as matter of general practice, I cant imagine any good and respected restorer simply applying this product as the 'finishing touch' to every (or even most) poster conservation/restoration jobs they do. Otherwise, how could they say their work is reversible with water, when a spray sealer would negate that option.

Or at least that is what they told you...  Probably true though if it was minor work.  There would be no need.  Like I said, some restorers have stated they used it.  Bruce has indicated he has seen it on posters he has auctioned.  Despite your feelings about it, there is nothing terrible about it.  Artist use it all the time to lock down original artwork etc.  It is used in photo restoration all the time and it comes archival...  I would be much more worried about wax based colored pencils and acrylics before fixative.

[erik1925]

Or at least that is what they told you...  Probably true though if it was minor work.  There would be no need.  Like I said, some restorers have stated they used it.  Bruce has indicated he has seen it on posters he has auctioned.  Despite your feelings about it, there is nothing terrible about it.  Artist use it all the time to lock down original artwork etc.  It is used in photo restoration all the time and it comes archival...  I would be much more worried about wax based colored pencils and acrylics before fixative.

I had detailed talks with both restorers. They told me what was done, and I was clear what i wanted done on the outset. I think it unlikely they would do steps 1-3 that I asked for, and then opt to "slip in" fixative step #4 without my knowledge or asking, especially since it would make their statement that "all restoration work we do is reversible" null and void, with the spray locking it all down.

Im not saying there is anything bad about spray fixatives. It's a good product and its great that its made in the 3 finishes. The fact that artists can use it to 'lock down' their charcoal or pastel works so they don't smudge or smear is one of the reasons for which it was designed.

But i'm talking about its use on a film poster that has been conserved and retouched. Again, for me, fixative would be a no-no.

[Charlie]

Im not saying there is anything bad about it. It's a good product and its great that its made in the 3 finishes. And yes, artists can use it to 'lock down' their charcoal or pastel works so they don't smudge or get smeared.

But i'm talking about its use on a film poster that has been conserved and retouched. To me, that would be a no-no.

If the poster was truly conserved and mounted by state of the practice methods (not pass-me down methods) and retouched with water reversible mediums, I agree.  Else, it's quite pointless if used on a piece that is not conserved to the state of the practice.  That includes the adhesives, chemical applications and art mediums.  So if a restoration firm uses wax based colored pencils and acrylics, the point is moot whether fixative is used.  Of course one could argue that all are archival.  For me it comes down to reversing the process.  Like I've said from experience, despite the suggestion that acrylics simply float off masa they don't.  Fixatives and acrylics are suppose to be soluble in acetone or alcohol.  They soften (again from experience here) they don't dissolve there is no magic.  It's like saying polyurethane can be removed with paint thinner - you still need to agitate it with steel wool.  

Do you consider wax based color pencils and acrylics no-nos?

[erik1925]

Acrylics and wax based pencils would also not be on my thumbs up list either.

That's why the various pencil companies make both wax based and as well as true water color based (aquarelle) pencils, that are highly soluble in H20.

And know, too, Im speaking only for myself, preference-wise. I'm also about true conservation and preservation, having this kind of work done only when a poster is deteriorating or in danger of falling apart, too brittle, splitting etc.